Getting hurt while attempting a geocache.

[+Fisher513]

So 3 months ago I attempted a tree climb cache and I had a rope and a harness but there was fallen tree leaning against the tree you have to climb and I slipped off of it and slammed very hard into the tree. I didn't go to the hospital although I probably should have, but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache? I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault. So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

[+Sapience Trek]

People are responsible for their own actions. Or should be.

[+NanCycle]

So 3 months ago I attempted a tree climb cache and I had a rope and a harness but there was fallen tree leaning against the tree you have to climb and I slipped off of it and slammed very hard into the tree. I didn't go to the hospital although I probably should have, but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache? I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault. So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

 

People are responsible for their own actions. Or should be.

 

Yes, people should be responsible for their own actions, but we live in a society (at least in the USA--I don't know to what extent this applies to the rest of the world) where pretty much anybody can be sued for anything. I'm not a lawyer, and I don't even play one on TV, but I think the property owner could end up being held responsible for allowing a dangerous condition on his property. There have been some outrageously stupid (IMO) lawsuits filed, and won.

[+Manville Possum]

So 3 months ago I attempted a tree climb cache and I had a rope and a harness but there was fallen tree leaning against the tree you have to climb and I slipped off of it and slammed very hard into the tree. I didn't go to the hospital although I probably should have, but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache? I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault. So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

 

I use a disclaimer on all of my 5/5 listings, but you should beaware that you are geocaching at your own risk.

[+Chief301]

Pretty sure when you accepted the terms of use there was something in there along the lines of " Geocaching can be dangerous, proceed at your own risk". Geocaching.com is only a listing service, they don't put the caches out there.

[+T.D.M.22]

I don't think the CO is responsible golf or anything other than their own cache. It's your choice to find the cache, and you choose how to find it. You could have used a ladder, a bucket truck, even cut the tree down. Unless the CO also owns the property, then they may be responsible for any injury on their property.

[+cerberus1]

So 3 months ago I attempted a tree climb cache and I had a rope and a harness but there was fallen tree leaning against the tree you have to climb and I slipped off of it and slammed very hard into the tree. I didn't go to the hospital although I probably should have, but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache? I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault. So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

If you don't have the proper training or equipment to do those type of caches, common sense says move along to another you can do.

 

A person knowledgeable would know how to access on what is a simple rope climb.

The "fallen tree" that was leaning against my other 2/3rds tree cache wasn't meant for anyone to climb.

It was dragged over by a cacher, and the nimble kid shimmied up it instead of using rope or a very long ladder, on a cache meant as a technical rope climb.

I dropped it to the ground. Can't saw it in half, it's not mine...

Edited August 7, 2015 by cerberus1

[+Isonzo Karst]

I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault.

 

Every listing on Geocaching.com has this in a yellow pane, under the coords:

 

Please note Use of geocaching.com services is subject to the terms and conditions in our disclaimer.

 

Geocaching.com Disclaimer

 

Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Isonzo Karst

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

Sorry for your injury, but as mentioned by others, geocaching can be dangerous.

 

I suggest you write this up in your log posting, either as a Fount It or a Write Note. As cerberus1 implied, maybe the 'leaner' was left by someone else as their means of access. Noting that in a log may prompt the CO to go out and check it out. And, it will let others know about the potential hazard.

 

Skye.

[+Fisher513]

So 3 months ago I attempted a tree climb cache and I had a rope and a harness but there was fallen tree leaning against the tree you have to climb and I slipped off of it and slammed very hard into the tree. I didn't go to the hospital although I probably should have, but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache? I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault. So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

If you don't have the proper traing or equipment to do those type of caches, common sense says move along to another you can do.

 

A person knowledgeable would know how to access on what is a simple rope climb.

The "fallen tree" that was leaning against my other 2/3rds tree cache wasn't meant for anyone to climb.

It was dragged over by a cacher, and the nimble kid shimmied up it instead of using rope or a very long ladder, on a cache meant as a technical rope climb.

I dropped it to the ground. Can't saw it in half, it's not mine...

I was planning on climbing up and I know how but I thought the CO put it there on purpose. Fiberglass ladders are too heavy and aluminum ladders aren't stable and are dangerous. I've climbing many trees by harness but I was told by a ACE employee that the CO put the tree there for people to use but I guess its because he watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXhtvmp08d0. I am going to attempt it before the tree dies (Muggles used screw ins to see what it was).

[+cerberus1]

Sorry for your injury, but as mentioned by others, geocaching can be dangerous.

 

I suggest you write this up in your log posting, either as a Fount It or a Write Note. As cerberus1 implied, maybe the 'leaner' was left by someone else as their means of access. Noting that in a log may prompt the CO to go out and check it out. And, it will let others know about the potential hazard.

 

Skye.

I'm not implying anything. It's my other 2/3rds cache the OP is referring.

The kid who accessed it, using another tree, emailed me about how clever he was...

[+Fisher513]

Sorry for your injury, but as mentioned by others, geocaching can be dangerous.

 

I suggest you write this up in your log posting, either as a Fount It or a Write Note. As cerberus1 implied, maybe the 'leaner' was left by someone else as their means of access. Noting that in a log may prompt the CO to go out and check it out. And, it will let others know about the potential hazard.

 

Skye.

I'm not implying anything. It's my other 2/3rds cache the OP is referring.

The kid who accessed it, using another tree, emailed me about how clever he was...

Not to clever though anyone could think of that. Sorry about the tree also, a saw some kids who where gonna climb trees with screw ins climb that tree though. I sure it will last for a while though.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Fisher513

[+on4bam]

So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

 

You mean, like suing McDo because the coffee is hot?

[Pup Patrol]

So 3 months ago I attempted a tree climb cache and I had a rope and a harness but there was fallen tree leaning against the tree you have to climb and I slipped off of it and slammed very hard into the tree. I didn't go to the hospital although I probably should have, but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache? I never remember accepting anything that if you get hurts its not groundspeaks fault. So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

 

Groundpeak Terms of Use, which I believe all users accept when creating an account.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx

 

2. Use of Our Services

 

A. Inherent Risks. Geocaching and other location-based activities facilitated by our services (e.g. Waymarking and Wherigo) can be dangerous and may take you to difficult to access or potentially treacherous locations. When hiding or seeking geocaches or taking part in other location-based activities, you risk property damage, bodily injury or death. There are many variables that must be considered prior to seeking or placing a geocache or engaging in other location-based activities, including: weather, fitness level, terrain features and outdoor experience. Be prepared and be sure to check the current conditions before heading outdoors. Always exercise common sense and caution.

 

You assume all risks associated with hiding or seeking a geocache and other location-based activities associated with our services and agree to release and hold harmless Groundspeak, landowners on whose property geocaches are located, and community members who serve as reviewers, translators and forum moderators/administrators from any liability for injury or loss suffered by you through the use of our services to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law.

 

B.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[+Fisher513]

So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

 

You mean, like suing McDo because the coffee is hot?

Exactly

[+on4bam]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

[+Fisher513]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

Edited August 7, 2015 by Fisher513

[+geodarts]

Every listing on Geocaching.com has this in a yellow pane, under the coords:

 

Please note Use of geocaching.com services is subject to the terms and conditions in our disclaimer.

 

Its been a long time since I practiced any sort of civil law, so I assume that Groundspeak's lawyers drafted a disclaimer that would protect them in most situations. Disclaimers and hold harmless clauses, however, may only go so far. But even without a disclaimer, there may be some protection from negligence actions for recreational activities (depending on the jurisdiction).

 

In my state, the courts apply assumption of the risk "to avoid chilling vigorous participation in or sponsorship of recreational activities by imposing a tort duty to eliminate or reduce the risks of harm inherent in those activities." (Nalwa v. Cedar Fair, L.P..) So golfers are not liable for a missed shot, baseball players are not liable for a hit batter, a person towing a water skier is protected from negligence actions, a bumper car rider cannot sue for injuries. On the other hand, there is a duty not to increase risk beyond that inherent in the activity.

 

The distinction between the two situations is what judges get paid to decide. Would placing an unlawful cache be an inherent part of the activity, giving it protection based on assumption of the risk in a negligence action? In any event, it is a different situation than a company like McDonalds being sued because coffee is too hot.

Edited August 7, 2015 by geodarts

[Pup Patrol]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it...

 

Did you read the Disclaimer and the Terms of Use posts above?

 

B.

[+Fisher513]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it...

 

Did you read the Disclaimer and the Terms of Use posts above?

 

B.

Yeah thanks for the info!

[+Manville Possum]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

[+baloo&bd]

OK, I'll say it since no one else will.

 

Based on the OP premise (and responses) it would appear GC is not for you.

 

There are many injuries, maybe everyday, within caching of varying degrees. We all assume the risk.

 

If someone comes in with th mentality they can make a buck by not taking responsibility, this will become a problem and ruin the game.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Unfortunately, all the disclaimers and precedents and legal concepts in the world are only the foundation upon which a lawsuit is argued.

 

In this country (USA), any lawyer worth his salt can frame an initial "coulda/shoulda" argument to a judge, who's initial job is to simply decide whether or not a case might have two sides. If "Yes", it moves forward. If "No", it gets "thrown out of court", as the saying goes.

 

Then, you have to convince a jury of lay people, not legal scholars, that someone's at fault. Most cases are dropped or get settled at this point because of the expense of fighting (either side) without a guarantee of victory.

 

But, if the other guy's lawyer can convince your fellow citizens that you should have known that some cacher put a thingy on your property and someone got hurt, then you could lose. Doesn't matter that the CO put it there without permission. That may be a point in your favor, but it's only a POINT in your favor. You could lose that argument.

 

If you hide a 5/5 cache and someone gets hurt, it might not matter that you labeled it as a 5/5, because you won't be making a reasoned argument to a reasonable person; you'll be at the mercy of a showman making an impassioned psychological plea to a collection of impressionable muggles who don't know from GC, and don't care about the arcane rules of difficulty and terrain.

 

When my kids were in school, I signed all kinds of Permission Slips 'holding harmeless' the school district and the bus company for field trips, but they're really meaningless. If my kid got hurt on a trip, I could certainly bring suit, and then it's up to who's the better convincer.

 

So, in this country, everything we do and every step we make could be the basis of a lawsuit filing. Is GC a dangerous hobby? Sure. Could we get sued? Sure. Can you live your life immobilized by the threat of a lawsuit every day? Sure. Do I? No.

 

Next, anybody want to talk about liability insurance?

Edited August 7, 2015 by TeamRabbitRun

[+geodarts]

Unfortunately, all the disclaimers and precedents and legal concepts in the world are only the foundation upon which a lawsuit is argued.

 

You can always be sue or be sued, but if a suit you bring is frivolous it might lead to an unpleasant result. Given the protections in my state for both recreational activities and a landowner who opens land to recreation, I would not expect most suits filed in California involving this game to get past the judge. Your state or jurisdiction might vary.

[+qtbluemoon]

So what happens, can the cache owner get sued?

 

You mean, like suing McDo because the coffee is hot?

The sad thing is - they won the case!

[+on4bam]

The sad thing is - they won the case!

 

I know, that's why I brought it up. It pays to be stupid.

[+geodarts]

The sad thing is - they won the case!

 

I know, that's why I brought it up. It pays to be stupid.

 

Although the plaintiff was a 79 year old woman who had third degree burns over six percent of her body from 185 degree coffee, including genitals and groins. After eight days in the hospital and undergoing further treatment, she sought to settle with McDonalds for $20,000. The company refused. The jury awarded $270,000 in compensatory damages, reduced for comparative fault. The judge reduced the punitive award although he called the company's actions "reckless, callous and willful." They eventually reached an undisclosed settlement. Coffee at that branch began to be served at 158 degrees.

 

The rest of the story is often ignored.

Edited August 7, 2015 by geodarts

[+niraD]

You mean, like suing McDo because the coffee is hot?

The sad thing is - they won the case!

See also The Actual Facts about the McDonalds' Coffee Case.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

You mean, like suing McDo because the coffee is hot?

The sad thing is - they won the case!

See also The Actual Facts about the McDonalds' Coffee Case.

 

Thank you both for posting the REAL facts about the McD case.

 

When I've tried to discuss what really happened, I usually get derided.

[+Path Pacer]

Thank you both for posting the REAL facts about the McD case.

 

When I've tried to discuss what really happened, I usually get derided.

It's been my experience that people rarely go past the soundbites. My basic premise in life is that no one, absolutely no one, wakes up in the morning and says, "I'm going to be an idiot today." They may indeed end up doing something stupid, but at the time, something led them to believe it was okay. Until you understand that, you don't truly understand what happened.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

Right off the top of my head I recall 3 geocaching deaths ( there must be more ) and no telling how many serious injuries and don't forget auto accidents. We've had our share of injuries but nothing serious and once I backed into a telephone pole.

The Groundspeak hold harmless clause does not seem to address the CO. . I've often thought that if a CO was successfully sued and the word spread it would just about be the end of the game....don't forget, a cache does not have to have a difficult terrain for someone to be injured...it could be a 1/1.

What is the liability of a CO I wonder ?

[+Fisher513]

For all the people saying that I would do this, I wouldn't. I was just wondering because I don't recall accepting a disclaimer. I think anyone who sues someone for something that is stupid is the one who is stupid. When OJ Simpsons trail was on TV I was younger and I wanted to sue everyone! Then my father told me that people who sue for anything unnecessary are people who don't understand Darwinism and aren't going to "survive".

[+Fisher513]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

Not a minor. But this game and forum is rated E for everyone so if I was a minor it wouldn't matter. I went to trade school, not law school. A boilermaker isn't a lawyer.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Fisher513

[+Manville Possum]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

Not a minor. But this game and forum is rated E for everyone so if I was a minor it wouldn't matter. I went to trade school, not law school. A boilermaker isn't a lawyer.

 

Geocaching yes, the forums no. I just thought you may be very young because Team Lucky discribed you as a kid, and some of the threads you have started and then request them to be deleted made me wonder.

[+captnemo]

 

 

In my state, the courts apply assumption of the risk "to avoid chilling vigorous participation in or sponsorship of recreational activities by imposing a tort duty to eliminate or reduce the risks of harm inherent in those activities." (Nalwa v. Cedar Fair, L.P..) So golfers are not liable for a missed shot, baseball players are not liable for a hit batter, a person towing a water skier is protected from negligence actions, a bumper car rider cannot sue for injuries. On the other hand, there is a duty not to increase risk beyond that inherent in the activity.

 

The distinction between the two situations is what judges get paid to decide. Would placing an unlawful cache be an inherent part of the activity, giving it protection based on assumption of the risk in a negligence action? In any event, it is a different situation than a company like McDonalds being sued because coffee is too hot.

Sums thing up very well. Anyone can sue, but not everyone wins. Will I continue to cache? Yes! Have I suffered injuries? Yes, minor ones. Would I sue? Not in a million years! I assume the risk for my actions.

[+hzoi]

what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache?

Sadly, it's happened at least once. A German geocacher was on a structure that gave way while he was trying to reach a geocache. He died from the fall. It hit the entire geocaching community pretty hard.

 

I don't know whether his family attempted to sue anyone about it, but I rather doubt it; German society is not as litigious as American.

 

I don't believe they were geocachers, but a French couple died Thursday of heat exhaustion just up the road from me at White Sands National Monument. Before I found out, I was actually considering going for a virtual or earthcache there today, but thought, no, it's far too hot to do that, I'll wait until fall.

 

As others pointed out, geocaching is a voluntary activity, and there is no guarantee of safety by Groundspeak or by cache owners. Play at your own risk.

[+on4bam]

Thank you both for posting the REAL facts about the McD case.

 

When I've tried to discuss what really happened, I usually get derided.

 

Any person knows coffee is served hot. No-one in their right mind should put hot fluid between their legs. The law may have been on their side but it's still stupid.

 

And since there is a story behind every label I wonder how the came to using the warnings listed here.

 

• "For external use only!" -- On a curling iron.

• "Warning: This product can burn eyes." -- On a curling iron.

• "Do not use in shower." -- On a hair dryer.

• "Do not use while sleeping." -- On a hair dryer.

 

Really? There's the Darwin Award for stuff like that.

[+Mn-treker]

Can a CO be sued? Answer YES!! I have read about it in these very forums. That disclaimer by Groundspeak is no good for the individual CO, only Groundspeak.

Law suit was reported out of Texas. CO lost, had to pay hospital bill for seeker. Why?? He deliberately set up a dangerous situation that would lure people

into, the best way to put it Dangerous situation ( a high tree hide). Also along the attractive nuisance laws. Now would that same ruling happen in all States? That is a big unknown

It really depends on the judge and the laws of the State. when any of us make a hide we take the risk that the law may come after us.

BOMB!! scare that cache looks like a bomb. Arrest the CO it has been thought of by the courts. To the point that in some places the law says what the container must be (clear no tape no paint no amo can.

The reality is that we all need to stop and think about the hide that will be made. Is it a good idea to do that here, maybe rethink it. I could guarantee that when some kid goes up that tree to get the cache

and falls out the CO will be sued and will most likely loose. There will be so much sympathy for that kid you will have no chance. Just use common sense when making a hide or when making the find. I have walked away

from trees that were not a good idea to climb. The CO did not like my comment but I don't care. Some hides look to me like the CO wants to see somebody get hurt. Is that good publicity for this hobby? Absolutely not!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache?

Sadly, it's happened at least once. A German geocacher was on a structure that gave way while he was trying to reach a geocache. He died from the fall. It hit the entire geocaching community pretty hard.

 

There was also an incident posted here bya somewhat local cacher (I've found a few of his caches) where his brother fell from a tree while attempting to place a cache and resulted in a trip to the hospital to deal with multiple broken bones.

 

 

[RuideAlmeida]

Only in 2015, the portuguese community lost not just one, but unfortunately two geocachers.

D3vil was canyoning and geocaching last May.

Crisóstomo was looking for a mountain cache when he fell last week... the body was found just 50 meters from his car.

 

Please join me in a moment of reflexion on their memory...

Edited August 8, 2015 by RuideAlmeida

[+Touchstone]

...but what happens if you die trying to attempt a geocache?

 

You won't be suing anyone. I thought that would be obvious.

 

Stay safe out there.

[+Fisher513]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

Not a minor. But this game and forum is rated E for everyone so if I was a minor it wouldn't matter. I went to trade school, not law school. A boilermaker isn't a lawyer.

 

Geocaching yes, the forums no. I just thought you may be very young because Team Lucky discribed you as a kid, and some of the threads you have started and then request them to be deleted made me wonder.

I took my brother for a FTF and thats who TL was describing, and I just was cleaning up some dead threads. No biggie.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Fisher513

[+Manville Possum]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

Not a minor. But this game and forum is rated E for everyone so if I was a minor it wouldn't matter. I went to trade school, not law school. A boilermaker isn't a lawyer.

 

Geocaching yes, the forums no. I just thought you may be very young because Team Lucky discribed you as a kid, and some of the threads you have started and then request them to be deleted made me wonder.

I took my brother for a FTF and thats who TL was describing, and I just was cleaning up some dead threads. No biggie.

 

No, it's pretty clear. Team Lucky states "I am the one this kid, Fischer is referring to." And you stated "Last week I got my first FTF and I was very excited so I told many people in crazy detail about my adventure. That night I left for vacation and when I got back I checked the forums and saw there was a topic that I allegedly started about how I was mad that someone posted that they shared the FTF (which I wasnt). I didnt really care I just had to delete it but when I scrolled down to make sure the person on my computer didnt say anything else but they did, and the person who shared the FTF saw it and responded. My heart sunk when I read it and now i feel bad that the person who shared the FTF. We walked 5 miles on no trail and when we got there a man and his kid showed up so we looked together. When we found it the man gave I a boat ride back and saved us! There was no reason for me to be mad. I found out it was my sister because she came with me and was mad that they said they shared the FTF and she had no idea how many people are on the forums. (Even though shes 24) But I am still trying to find their profile to send an apology message so if anyone sees "Team Luckys" profile please post the link.

 

Thanks,

Fisher " in another thread.

 

So, I do not know if I believe you or your account has been hacked again.

[+The Rat]

I predicted on this forum long ago, maybe 10 years back, that there would be someone killed or disabled going for a geocache and the subsequent lawsuit would result in eliminating the sport. Happily, I have been proven wrong, at least so far. However, unlike most others here, I was a lawyer (now retired) and still think this could happen. Yes, I agree that everyone should be responsible for his or her own actions, but that applies to CO's and Groundspeak, too. It's also true that anyone can sue anyone else for anything in this country. If someone is deficient or negligent in his description of the hazards inherent in searching for a cache, or if the reviewer is negligent in approving a cache that the plaintiff claims should not have been, then I can see the very real possibility of liability. I doubt the disclaimer would protect those defendants, at least not entirely. It might result in the application of either contributory or comparative negligence doctrines, but that is going to vary by state and even by judge. Even if the defendant is successful in having a suit thrown out eventually, it could still cost thousands in legal fees just to get that far. Trial would cost tens of thousands, even if you win. I hadn't heard of that Texas case where the CO was allegedly held liable (or settled - a link would be helpful), and can't confirm that it is true, but I certainly think something like that is possible. I now think it wouldn't be likely to kill the sport, but I can see it putting a damper on 5 terrain caches. My guess is that if a reviewer were named as a defendant, Groundspeak would indemnify them, but that would probably initiate stronger guidelines for reviewers. Laws in other countries are probably very different, and none of this is likely to apply there.

[+Spenny!]

This is a log from a cache I own. Pretty basic until you look at the picture. I think this is a good example of how to handle getting hurt while caching.

 

"Went once before but it was a swamp. It is dry now. We were the 3 stooges with one big inanimate tag along. One injury later and the cache was signed. Pretty scary. Tftc!"

[+WarNinjas]

I once went to a cache and while I was at the cache even for a short time my car window was broken and stuff was stolen out of my car! I was wondering if maybe I could sue the CO for my loss. I thought about it for a while but decided it might not be worth it after looking threw all the info. The cache was mine and I was there to do maintenance on it. Even if I won It would be kind of a loss. I just decided to let it go.

We have out a bunch of 5* terrain caches and I do worry about this. For now I am not to worried because I don't own much that others could come after. I do think once I own my own home and have more money to worry about I might have to archive them just to be on the safe side and that is kind of a shame but I wouldn't want to loose all I have worked for because someone is careless and decided to sue for something they did.

[CuriousIntentions]

I once went to a cache and while I was at the cache even for a short time my car window was broken and stuff was stolen out of my car! I was wondering if maybe I could sue the CO for my loss. I thought about it for a while but decided it might not be worth it after looking threw all the info. The cache was mine and I was there to do maintenance on it. Even if I won It would be kind of a loss. I just decided to let it go.

We have out a bunch of 5* terrain caches and I do worry about this. For now I am not to worried because I don't own much that others could come after. I do think once I own my own home and have more money to worry about I might have to archive them just to be on the safe side and that is kind of a shame but I wouldn't want to loose all I have worked for because someone is careless and decided to sue for something they did.

Yeah.. I wouldn't think you'd have much chance winning that case. It's basically along the same lines of "I was shown the location of (such and such) by (person) and when I went there my stuff got stolen and now I believe that it is (persons) fault and that he/she should compensate me". As you can see not much logistic there... (Then again it could be a different situation in America; I'm Australia-based)

Edited August 9, 2015 by eth32

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I once went to a cache and while I was at the cache even for a short time my car window was broken and stuff was stolen out of my car! I was wondering if maybe I could sue the CO for my loss. I thought about it for a while but decided it might not be worth it after looking threw all the info. The cache was mine and I was there to do maintenance on it. Even if I won It would be kind of a loss. I just decided to let it go.

We have out a bunch of 5* terrain caches and I do worry about this. For now I am not to worried because I don't own much that others could come after. I do think once I own my own home and have more money to worry about I might have to archive them just to be on the safe side and that is kind of a shame but I wouldn't want to loose all I have worked for because someone is careless and decided to sue for something they did.

 

WarNinjas, great post, and I had to go find this item from last October (2014). For attribution, I found this version at MotorAuthority.com, by Nelson Ireson:

 

A woman in St. Paul, Minnesota has filed a claim for damage to her car caused by a city worker-operated van. The problem? She was driving the van that hit her car.

 

The woman, identified by TwinCities.com as St. Paul Parks and Recreation employee Megan Campbell, has filed a claim against the city for $1,600-$1,900 to cover the damage to her 2001 Nissan Pathfinder.

 

Campbell has worked for the department since May, upon her graduation from college. In the claim, she stated, “Because I was working for the city and driving the city vehicle, I feel they are responsible for paying for the damage done to my car.”

 

That rather remarkable statement comes despite the fact that, while driving a rented supply van on city business, she turned a corner and struck her own parked car head-on.

 

City Clerk Shari Moore, an apparent master of understatement, told TwinCities.com, “I think I can safely say this is a very unusual claim.”

[+Fisher513]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

Not a minor. But this game and forum is rated E for everyone so if I was a minor it wouldn't matter. I went to trade school, not law school. A boilermaker isn't a lawyer.

 

Geocaching yes, the forums no. I just thought you may be very young because Team Lucky discribed you as a kid, and some of the threads you have started and then request them to be deleted made me wonder.

I took my brother for a FTF and thats who TL was describing, and I just was cleaning up some dead threads. No biggie.

 

No, it's pretty clear. Team Lucky states "I am the one this kid, Fischer is referring to." And you stated "Last week I got my first FTF and I was very excited so I told many people in crazy detail about my adventure. That night I left for vacation and when I got back I checked the forums and saw there was a topic that I allegedly started about how I was mad that someone posted that they shared the FTF (which I wasnt). I didnt really care I just had to delete it but when I scrolled down to make sure the person on my computer didnt say anything else but they did, and the person who shared the FTF saw it and responded. My heart sunk when I read it and now i feel bad that the person who shared the FTF. We walked 5 miles on no trail and when we got there a man and his kid showed up so we looked together. When we found it the man gave I a boat ride back and saved us! There was no reason for me to be mad. I found out it was my sister because she came with me and was mad that they said they shared the FTF and she had no idea how many people are on the forums. (Even though shes 24) But I am still trying to find their profile to send an apology message so if anyone sees "Team Luckys" profile please post the link.

 

Thanks,

Fisher " in another thread.

 

So, I do not know if I believe you or your account has been hacked again.

Not hacked, compromised. If I met you face to face and discuss this with me you would realize I'm not a minor. The internet gives you qives you "Invincibility". You can act professional while insulting me and trying to offend me. Just saying face to face makes a huge difference.

[+Manville Possum]

Exactly

 

You realize that these things are frowned upon in most other countries, do you?

TOS are clear on this one but suing someone for something you're doing out of your own free will...

If you pull a ladder onto yourself in a Lowes, HD, Etc. you can sue, think about it. Is it right? No. But its of your own free will...

 

I hope if you ever sue anyone because you have a accident while geocaching or shopping for ladders at Lowes their attorney presents this thread in court. Maybe you are just looking for a slip and fall suite, maybe you are just a minor posting here in the forums. I don't know, but I would never allow a geocache on my property reguardless.

Not a minor. But this game and forum is rated E for everyone so if I was a minor it wouldn't matter. I went to trade school, not law school. A boilermaker isn't a lawyer.

 

Geocaching yes, the forums no. I just thought you may be very young because Team Lucky discribed you as a kid, and some of the threads you have started and then request them to be deleted made me wonder.

I took my brother for a FTF and thats who TL was describing, and I just was cleaning up some dead threads. No biggie.

 

No, it's pretty clear. Team Lucky states "I am the one this kid, Fischer is referring to." And you stated "Last week I got my first FTF and I was very excited so I told many people in crazy detail about my adventure. That night I left for vacation and when I got back I checked the forums and saw there was a topic that I allegedly started about how I was mad that someone posted that they shared the FTF (which I wasnt). I didnt really care I just had to delete it but when I scrolled down to make sure the person on my computer didnt say anything else but they did, and the person who shared the FTF saw it and responded. My heart sunk when I read it and now i feel bad that the person who shared the FTF. We walked 5 miles on no trail and when we got there a man and his kid showed up so we looked together. When we found it the man gave I a boat ride back and saved us! There was no reason for me to be mad. I found out it was my sister because she came with me and was mad that they said they shared the FTF and she had no idea how many people are on the forums. (Even though shes 24) But I am still trying to find their profile to send an apology message so if anyone sees "Team Luckys" profile please post the link.

 

Thanks,

Fisher " in another thread.

 

So, I do not know if I believe you or your account has been hacked again.

Not hacked, compromised. If I met you face to face and discuss this with me you would realize I'm not a minor. The internet gives you qives you "Invincibility". You can act professional while insulting me and trying to offend me. Just saying face to face makes a huge difference.

So are you saying you are a bad dude and would resort to violence and harm me just because I do not belive your storys that you post here in the forums.

 

In one post it's "I took my brother for a FTF and thats who TL was describing, and I just was cleaning up some dead threads. No biggie."

 

Another post it's your sister that was with you. Make up your mind. I think a good lawyer would get your "I hurt myself geocaching" suit tossed out of court pretty quiclkey.