Virtual and Earthcache find logs that make you sigh...

[+ArtieD]

I've seen both "extremes" if you like.

 

Earth Caches are required to be educational. I know EC owners who weren't particularly interested in Earth Sciences, but wanted to place an Earth Cache, and had some back and forth with their reviewers because their cache wasn't educational enough - eventually getting it published.

 

On the other hand, there are some Earth Caches in my area set by a local professor in Earth Sciences, which I have found difficult. Many of them have a dozen or more questions. And on most of her caches I've submitted some wrong answers. But the CO kindly replied and explained what I got wrong as well as what I got right, and said to log it. And I learned more as a result of it.

 

I agree with this. Depending on the cacher's hide, it can be a so-so learning experience or a great one.

[+narcissa]

I've seen both "extremes" if you like.

 

Earth Caches are required to be educational. I know EC owners who weren't particularly interested in Earth Sciences, but wanted to place an Earth Cache, and had some back and forth with their reviewers because their cache wasn't educational enough - eventually getting it published.

 

On the other hand, there are some Earth Caches in my area set by a local professor in Earth Sciences, which I have found difficult. Many of them have a dozen or more questions. And on most of her caches I've submitted some wrong answers. But the CO kindly replied and explained what I got wrong as well as what I got right, and said to log it. And I learned more as a result of it.

 

So she wasn't just out to beat you over the head with her expertise?

[cezanne]

Wow and yes as an owner of ECs I have seen answers like this and yes I do delete logs after a specific time. What I will not do is delete the log if it is wrong. For me as an owner and a finder is that I visited the site and I learned something and/or that I tried..It's all about the learning and experience. If some cachers don't get that then that is their loss. For me there are no wrong answers only no answers...

 

In my opinion, it would be helpful to provide feedback about wrong answers and the chance to get the wrong answers right (possibly with help and/or hints if needed). Otherwise, for me it is not a real learning experience. That's not an issue of whether or not a log should be deleted but whether or not learning at a reasonable level took place.

 

Who defines "learning at a reasonable level". The EC guidelines only state that an EC has to provide a learning experience but doesn't quantify how much learning needs to take place.

 

I do not think that a definition is needed as I did not suggest to use it in a guideline type. I just explained that I think that the important aspect of an EC in my opinion is not whether a found it log is allowed to stand.

I rather prefer getting the information that I got too much wrong so that I decide myself that I do not have earned a found it log than getting no feedback at all for an EC where I'm very unsure about the answers.

Edited July 23, 2015 by cezanne

[+niraD]

There's a certain DGS member that thought it'd just kill me to place a very, very hard puzzle within a half mile of my house, knowing I have the immediate area (around 35 miles) cleared.

There used to be a D5 multi-cache a little over a mile from my home. It was a milestone tribute cache that required knowledge of the honoree to correctly interpret the information at stage 1.

 

Naturally, the honoree was FTF. And a few folks who knew him personally found it after that. But the honoree started making the necessary information available on the local forums, for those of us who were looking for it. But a lot of people just ignored it after seeing the information at stage 1.

[+hzoi]

I've seen both "extremes" if you like.

 

Earth Caches are required to be educational. I know EC owners who weren't particularly interested in Earth Sciences, but wanted to place an Earth Cache, and had some back and forth with their reviewers because their cache wasn't educational enough - eventually getting it published.

 

On the other hand, there are some Earth Caches in my area set by a local professor in Earth Sciences, which I have found difficult. Many of them have a dozen or more questions. And on most of her caches I've submitted some wrong answers. But the CO kindly replied and explained what I got wrong as well as what I got right, and said to log it. And I learned more as a result of it.

In my view, that's how it's supposed to work, and that's how I approach wrong answers.

 

Apparently I need to be more transparent about still allowing the find, though. I recently had someone log one of our ECs who left a note that gave me the impression he had skimmed the description and was trying to wing it for the find. I sent back a response that hinted that I knew he hadn't read the description, but I gave him the answers. I guess he thought I was going to delete his log, because I got this happy response:

 

Great, (I'm a number hound now...less than 300 finds since 2008) and I want to log ONE or TWO caches in a nice part of <state> while visiting my brand new grandson at <place> and I'm denied. Awesome. Sorry if I missed a detail or three, but you tend to do that if you can't see your Android screen in open daylight and you just came off a fifteen hour drive the day before. Thanks for the slack, there and greetings from <home state>. Forget it. I think my find at <other place> will allow me to have one find in your great state. Adios.

 

My follow up note telling him his find was safe and sorry for the confusion was ignored. Must be a real fun guy to get a beer with.

 

(Place names redacted so he doesn't yell at me again.)

Edited July 26, 2015 by hzoi

[+TerraViators]

I'll give the finder about a week to submit answers due to busy schedules, vacations, etc. After that, I'll send an email reminding them to submit the answers. Depending on the feedback I receive, I make a decision to delete the log or not delete it. Sometimes, they are new and don't understand. I'll cut those folks some slack, especially if I see proof they actually visited the site and will explain earthcaches. Sometimes, new people are confused about how to submit answers. Seasoned cachers don't get the same treatment. If you're lazy or too arrogant to believe the rules don't apply, then your log is deleted.

[+coman123]

I own over 20 Earth Caches, and have a few in Que waiting review.

On all my EC Pages I put the following

 

Remember with all my Earth Caches, the idea is to learn a bit of Geological history and have fun

It IS NOT to cause you grief trying to give perfect scientific answers

Just do your best.

Please log this Earth cache as soon as you sent the answers

 

I respond to all logs and give the correct answers, never had an issue.

[+bflentje]

I'll give the finder about a week to submit answers due to busy schedules, vacations, etc. After that, I'll send an email reminding them to submit the answers. Depending on the feedback I receive, I make a decision to delete the log or not delete it. Sometimes, they are new and don't understand. I'll cut those folks some slack, especially if I see proof they actually visited the site and will explain earthcaches. Sometimes, new people are confused about how to submit answers. Seasoned cachers don't get the same treatment. If you're lazy or too arrogant to believe the rules don't apply, then your log is deleted.

 

But you move earthcaches.. shame shame.

[+funkymunkyzone]

I don't usually enjoy ECs, primarily because many of them have at least one or two questions that seem to call for knowledge outside of that which can be obtained by reading the cache page or visiting the site. Personally, I feel like those two things are all that SHOULD be necessary. At the very least, provide resource links to materials used when creating the EC, to be used in conjunction with the information gathered during the visit to GZ. Just haphazardly googling the answers to questions that don't even necessarily pertain to the area immediately around GZ seems like more of a chore than a learning experience.

 

My bet is that you'd probably enjoy ECs more then if EC owners stuck to the guidelines... (I added the bold to highlight a couple of things that I think many EC owners don't understand.

 

The description and tasks combine to teach the lesson and highlight what is unique or interesting about the location. The text should provide accurate, clear explanations of what visitors will experience at the site. The geocache page content should assume no prior knowledge of Geology, and be written at age 14 reading level.The logging tasks must relate to the specific geological lesson.

I enjoy ECs but I do get a bit annoyed sometimes when there is nothing at all at the site to help answer one of the logging tasks, no chance for me to actually learn it because I have to already know it...

Edited July 30, 2015 by funkymunkyzone

[ATMouse]

I love EC's and developed a bunch and helped others develop EC's in my area. Heck, I even taught how to find/develop and write up EC's at a Mega-event.

 

That said, my favorite EC I set up required some tools, common and easy to obtain and some in your pocket right now. (It was a hardness test of rocks.)No PhD needed.

 

I made it clear in the description what was needed. I still had cachers try the TFTC business with me. I'm with A&T: you have a day or two and I sent an email. No answer and I delete.

 

As others here have said: If you don't want to do what is required, do not put them on your list to "do". Easy.

[+narcissa]

I love EC's and developed a bunch and helped others develop EC's in my area. Heck, I even taught how to find/develop and write up EC's at a Mega-event.

 

That said, my favorite EC I set up required some tools, common and easy to obtain and some in your pocket right now. (It was a hardness test of rocks.)No PhD needed.

 

I made it clear in the description what was needed. I still had cachers try the TFTC business with me. I'm with A&T: you have a day or two and I sent an email. No answer and I delete.

 

As others here have said: If you don't want to do what is required, do not put them on your list to "do". Easy.

 

People aren't just like that with Earthcaches. My husband likes to create detailed letterbox hybrids and multis. They have lengthy cache pages, and completing them requires a lot of walking and following many clues. They're all intended to be done in the field by following the directions in the cache page.

 

He gets the strangest angry logs from people who think there is something more complicated at play. Everything is in the cache page, but they don't want to read. They want it spoon-fed to them.

 

Traditional caches outnumber all other cache types by several orders of magnitude, but that's not good enough for these people. They will hone in on the one cache in a ten mile radius that isn't easy for them, and complain bitterly that they're being asked to read a bit, or prepare in advance.

 

I think the best way to look at it is to treat those missives as badges of honour. Any time some dolt complains because they didn't read the cache page, you win.

[ATMouse]

I love EC's and developed a bunch and helped others develop EC's in my area. Heck, I even taught how to find/develop and write up EC's at a Mega-event.

 

That said, my favorite EC I set up required some tools, common and easy to obtain and some in your pocket right now. (It was a hardness test of rocks.)No PhD needed.

 

I made it clear in the description what was needed. I still had cachers try the TFTC business with me. I'm with A&T: you have a day or two and I sent an email. No answer and I delete.

 

As others here have said: If you don't want to do what is required, do not put them on your list to "do". Easy.

 

People aren't just like that with Earthcaches. My husband likes to create detailed letterbox hybrids and multis. They have lengthy cache pages, and completing them requires a lot of walking and following many clues. They're all intended to be done in the field by following the directions in the cache page.

 

He gets the strangest angry logs from people who think there is something more complicated at play. Everything is in the cache page, but they don't want to read. They want it spoon-fed to them.

 

Traditional caches outnumber all other cache types by several orders of magnitude, but that's not good enough for these people. They will hone in on the one cache in a ten mile radius that isn't easy for them, and complain bitterly that they're being asked to read a bit, or prepare in advance.

 

I think the best way to look at it is to treat those missives as badges of honour. Any time some dolt complains because they didn't read the cache page, you win.

 

I don't know about the "winning" part, but I am unsurprised by your story.

 

I work in Social Services and interview people applying for assistance.

 

I am astonished some of them breathe on their own. Makes you wonder, it do.

[+TerraViators]

I'll give the finder about a week to submit answers due to busy schedules, vacations, etc. After that, I'll send an email reminding them to submit the answers. Depending on the feedback I receive, I make a decision to delete the log or not delete it. Sometimes, they are new and don't understand. I'll cut those folks some slack, especially if I see proof they actually visited the site and will explain earthcaches. Sometimes, new people are confused about how to submit answers. Seasoned cachers don't get the same treatment. If you're lazy or too arrogant to believe the rules don't apply, then your log is deleted.

 

But you move earthcaches.. shame shame.

Please explain. How does one move an earthcache?

[+on4bam]

My husband likes to create detailed letterbox hybrids and multis. They have lengthy cache pages, and completing them requires a lot of walking and following many clues. They're all intended to be done in the field by following the directions in the cache page.

 

Ah... my kind of caches

[+humboldt flier]

I'll give the finder about a week to submit answers due to busy schedules, vacations, etc. After that, I'll send an email reminding them to submit the answers. Depending on the feedback I receive, I make a decision to delete the log or not delete it. Sometimes, they are new and don't understand. I'll cut those folks some slack, especially if I see proof they actually visited the site and will explain earthcaches. Sometimes, new people are confused about how to submit answers. Seasoned cachers don't get the same treatment. If you're lazy or too arrogant to believe the rules don't apply, then your log is deleted.

 

But you move earthcaches.. shame shame.

 

Picked up The Grand Teton Glacier Cache the other day and loaded it onto a large (VERY LARGE) low-boy and am having it moved to Mundelien, Illinois so the CO can monitor it more easily.

[+hzoi]

I don't usually enjoy ECs, primarily because many of them have at least one or two questions that seem to call for knowledge outside of that which can be obtained by reading the cache page or visiting the site. Personally, I feel like those two things are all that SHOULD be necessary. At the very least, provide resource links to materials used when creating the EC, to be used in conjunction with the information gathered during the visit to GZ. Just haphazardly googling the answers to questions that don't even necessarily pertain to the area immediately around GZ seems like more of a chore than a learning experience.

 

My bet is that you'd probably enjoy ECs more then if EC owners stuck to the guidelines... (I added the bold to highlight a couple of things that I think many EC owners don't understand.

 

The description and tasks combine to teach the lesson and highlight what is unique or interesting about the location. The text should provide accurate, clear explanations of what visitors will experience at the site. The geocache page content should assume no prior knowledge of Geology, and be written at age 14 reading level.The logging tasks must relate to the specific geological lesson.

I enjoy ECs but I do get a bit annoyed sometimes when there is nothing at all at the site to help answer one of the logging tasks, no chance for me to actually learn it because I have to already know it...

I try to do this, but the further I get from 14, the less familiar I am with that reading level. I should recruit a ninth grader and have them look over our ECs.

 

Though I suppose I could take inspiration from the reports of investigation I keep getting for review that were clearly written by 12-year-olds and not lieutenants with a West Point education. I would have been thrown in a sack and beaten with reeds for such writing when I was a lieutenant...but I digress.

[+bflentje]

I'll give the finder about a week to submit answers due to busy schedules, vacations, etc. After that, I'll send an email reminding them to submit the answers. Depending on the feedback I receive, I make a decision to delete the log or not delete it. Sometimes, they are new and don't understand. I'll cut those folks some slack, especially if I see proof they actually visited the site and will explain earthcaches. Sometimes, new people are confused about how to submit answers. Seasoned cachers don't get the same treatment. If you're lazy or too arrogant to believe the rules don't apply, then your log is deleted.

 

But you move earthcaches.. shame shame.

Please explain. How does one move an earthcache?

 

I had seen that you logged someone's earthcache recently and (jokingly I presume) claimed to have "moved it".