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Harry Dolphin

Are souvenirs a good idea?

96 posts in this topic

The fact that the souvenir remains on someone's profile is uninteresting and unimportant.

 

It is important since the souvenir is clearly the only motivation/key driver for them to visit an EC and NOT the EC or IEC day itself. Leaving the souvenir untouched encourages them to maintain this kind of behavior, which is i.m.o. against the philosophy of the IEC day where one celebrates ECs and their geological value.

 

I simply can't muster up any concern about the exceedingly small fraction of geocachers who are going to falsely log Earthcaches once a year in order to get a picture on their profile that nobody else will ever see. These people are rare and beneath concern. It would be a spiteful overreaction to end something that most participants seem to enjoy in a manner that is fair and respectful.

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That might be the case in Canada (or you underestimate the issue), but over here the souvenir hunters are a pest.

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That might be the case in Canada (or you underestimate the issue), but over here the souvenir hunters are a pest.

I kinda agree.

When my isp was slower, the profile animations, and badges alone would sometimes time me out. :D

"Awards/rewards" do seem to be a big thing there.

Edited by cerberus1
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That might be the case in Canada (or you underestimate the issue), but over here the souvenir hunters are a pest.

 

It's unfortunate that you've chosen to be so bothered by people who are motivated by souvenirs.

 

I welcome a bit of extra traffic to caches that the mainstream cachers usually ignore. This game is played by many different kinds of people and there's nothing we can do to force everyone to have the same interests or play the same way.

 

Really, the fact that Earthcaches exist and count as "finds" means that they occasionally get logged by people who aren't particularly interested in geology or didn't actually learn much from the experience. That's okay.

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I welcome a bit of extra traffic to caches that the mainstream cachers usually ignore.

 

Again that might be true in Canada but is not true for many European countries.

 

As the EC souvenir is regarded, it's not only about fake logs of cachers who never visited the EC site -

it's also about the general message sent out to cachers. I think it is unfortunate if the majority comes to the

conclusion that it is the normal thing to do to keep some EC unlogged until EC day and then log it.

Edited by cezanne
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The extra traffic - which is i.m.o. not needed/wanted - is a specious argument for nothing more than a poor men implementation of the hook model in the hope to do some soul-winning and palm some merchandise off on people. The marketing mail sent the day after is the perfect prove for this.

One might argue that this is normal for a commercial enterprise, but it's debatable whether ECs can/may be (mis)used for this. I'm wondering if the GSA Foundation gets anything from this.

I want to finish this discussion with my conclusion that things are experienced/appreciated differently in both continents.

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As the EC souvenir is regarded, it's not only about fake logs of cachers who never visited the EC site -

it's also about the general message sent out to cachers. I think it is unfortunate if the majority comes to the

conclusion that it is the normal thing to do to keep some EC unlogged until EC day and then log it.

I agree logging a cache with the wrong date is a pathetic practice that's embarrassing to see. I deny that the idea that inaccurate logs are OK is the fault of souvenirs.

 

The extra traffic - which is i.m.o. not needed/wanted - is a specious argument...

Yeah, I'll agree extra traffic isn't the point. The point is to get people to do EarthCaches, not to get EarthCaches done. For my money, the EC souvenir did that, and it's just sad that some people gamed the system to get the souvenir without accomplishing the task.

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I welcome a bit of extra traffic to caches that the mainstream cachers usually ignore.

 

Again that might be true in Canada but is not true for many European countries.

 

As the EC souvenir is regarded, it's not only about fake logs of cachers who never visited the EC site -

it's also about the general message sent out to cachers. I think it is unfortunate if the majority comes to the

conclusion that it is the normal thing to do to keep some EC unlogged until EC day and then log it.

 

Your comment doesn't make any sense. What I personally welcome as a cache owner is true anywhere I go.

 

What is actually unfortunate is when geocachers decide that the point of the game is to force others to geocache a particular way.

 

I can't fathom why some people take a keen interest in souvenirs, but if it's important enough that they are strategic about which caches they find on what days, I don't see why I should care about that either. It's no different than leaving easy caches close to home for a streak, or caching on a certain day to fill in a calendar.

 

Life is too short to be in a constant rage about people not appreciating my caches in the correct fashion. If someone wants to phone it in to get a souvenir, it takes nothing away from me or the numerous geocachers who do seem to appreciate Earthcaches.

 

I like geocaching and I find that geocachers are generally good people. They are also diverse and that's okay. If I felt that the "majority" of geocachers were lying scallawags I don't think I would play the game anymore. It's unfortunate that some forum participants are so intent on being disappointed all the time.

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The extra traffic - which is i.m.o. not needed/wanted - is a specious argument for nothing more than a poor men implementation of the hook model in the hope to do some soul-winning and palm some merchandise off on people. The marketing mail sent the day after is the perfect prove for this.

One might argue that this is normal for a commercial enterprise, but it's debatable whether ECs can/may be (mis)used for this. I'm wondering if the GSA Foundation gets anything from this.

I want to finish this discussion with my conclusion that things are experienced/appreciated differently in both continents.

 

I don't take any interest in forum user profiles so I don't know what this silliness about continents is about. I certainly don't claim to speak on behalf of a continent. I am sure that anywhere you go, there will be geocachers determined to be sour and controlling about the way others play the game, and others who don't really mind someone finding an Earthcache for the sake of a souvenir, without any fanfare or reverence for the geological majesty of it.

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I can't fathom why some people take a keen interest in souvenirs, but if it's important enough that they are strategic about which caches they find on what days, I don't see why I should care about that either. It's no different than leaving easy caches close to home for a streak, or caching on a certain day to fill in a calendar.

I think we're talking about people finding the EC one day, but then dating their find on another day so they get the souvenir. There no real justification for complaining about someone saving an EC to find on a special day, so I'm reasonably confident no one in this thread is doing that.

 

And I don't care whether someone lies about the date of the find, either, but I think it's sad.

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Your comment doesn't make any sense.

 

To me it makes sense.

 

I can't fathom why some people take a keen interest in souvenirs, but if it's important enough that they are strategic about which caches they find on what days, I don't see why I should care about that either. It's no different than leaving easy caches close to home for a streak, or caching on a certain day to fill in a calendar.

 

I do not care the least about that sort of strategic behaviour.

I'm also not worried if a minority uses the wrong dates for physical caches and ECs to obtain souvenirs or keep streaks going (none of the two are of interest to me personally, but that's not the topic here).

 

When it comes however to ECs and Ec souvenirs it has become somehow the standard practice around here to wait with the log until an EC souvenir is available. (There are not many ECs around here and cachers do not want to wait with logging them and do not want to make far trips at EC day.)

 

Like the armchair virtuals that have been published in Germany and the Netherlands made cachers believe that virtual caches are to be done from home, this sort of behaviour creates a wrong impression about ECs in my opinion.

 

If I felt that the "majority" of geocachers were lying scallawags I don't think I would play the game anymore. It's unfortunate that some forum participants are so intent on being disappointed all the time.

 

Well in my area there are many cachers who are lying openly and in many respects. I have to deal with that anyway.

 

If the intent of Groundspeak with the EC souvenir were "Visit an EC sometime during the year" the souvenir would not be an EC day souvenir, right?

Edited by cezanne
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I can't fathom why some people take a keen interest in souvenirs, but if it's important enough that they are strategic about which caches they find on what days, I don't see why I should care about that either. It's no different than leaving easy caches close to home for a streak, or caching on a certain day to fill in a calendar.

I think we're talking about people finding the EC one day, but then dating their find on another day so they get the souvenir. There no real justification for complaining about someone saving an EC to find on a special day, so I'm reasonably confident no one in this thread is doing that.

 

And I don't care whether someone lies about the date of the find, either, but I think it's sad.

 

That is sad, but I don't see how I could possibly even know that somebody did it unless I was told. I am not about to stand guard over my caches just so I have something to be mad about. It is a wretched thing to assume about a fellow geocacher.

 

And this date issue is just one element of the misanthropic complaining that is happening in this thread.

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Your comment doesn't make any sense.

 

To me it makes sense.

 

I can't fathom why some people take a keen interest in souvenirs, but if it's important enough that they are strategic about which caches they find on what days, I don't see why I should care about that either. It's no different than leaving easy caches close to home for a streak, or caching on a certain day to fill in a calendar.

 

I do not care the least about that sort of strategic behaviour.

I'm also not worried if a minority uses the wrong dates for physical caches and ECs to obtain souvenirs or keep streaks going (none of the two are of interest to me personally, but that's not the topic here).

 

When it comes however to ECs and Ec souvenirs it has become somehow the standard practice around here to wait with the log until an EC souvenir is available. (There are not many ECs around here and cachers do not want to wait with logging them and do not want to make far trips at EC day.)

 

Like the armchair virtuals that have been published in Germany and the Netherlands made cachers believe that virtual caches are to be done from home, this sort of behaviour creates a wrong impression about ECs in my opinion.

 

If I felt that the "majority" of geocachers were lying scallawags I don't think I would play the game anymore. It's unfortunate that some forum participants are so intent on being disappointed all the time.

 

Well in my area there are many cachers who are lying openly and in many respects. I have to deal with that anyway.

 

If the intent of Groundspeak with the EC souvenir were "Visit an EC sometime during the year" the souvenir would not be an EC day souvenir, right?

 

I can assure you that if I flew to another continent, my opinion would unchanged. The comment makes no sense.

 

You keep using the word "majority" as though you have some statistical analysis.

 

I really do not see why it matters that some people save ECs for the day they can get a souvenir. Some people save other rare cache types for similar reasons. This insistence that there is some correct and respectful way to Earthcache is incredibly condescending and controlling.

 

I don't see how you can know that they aren't putting correct dates on logs. If you think someone has lied about visiting, delete the log.

Edited by narcissa
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I don't see how you can know that they aren't putting correct dates on logs. If you think someone has lied about visiting, delete the log.

 

Because most even say so in their logs (and in some cases it is obvious if the EC is in another country and the other logs of the day are in my area).

 

I do not own an EC and I would not delete logs even if the logs are provided with the wrong date and if the answers are correct, one needs to accept the log anyhow

(that's the case for my virtual cache too and also for physical caches if there is a log entry listing 10 names but one met only one person of the "team" at the cache).

 

I just stick with my opinion that the EC souvenir is a bad idea. You are entitled to have a different opinion.

Edited by cezanne
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I don't see how you can know that they aren't putting correct dates on logs. If you think someone has lied about visiting, delete the log.

 

Because most even say so in their logs (and in some cases it is obvious if the EC is in another country and the other logs of the day are in my area).

 

I do not own an EC and I would not delete logs even if the logs are provided with the wrong date and if the answers are correct, one needs to accept the log anyhow

(that's the case for my virtual cache too and also for physical caches if there is a log entry listing 10 names but one met only one person of the "team" at the cache).

 

I just stick with my opinion that the EC souvenir is a bad idea. You are entitled to have a different opinion.

 

Scrutinizing other people's logs and looking for reasons to be angry seems like the bad idea here.

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And this date issue is just one element of the misanthropic complaining that is happening in this thread.

 

Of course the date issue is just one element. The souvenir also motivates other behaviour which I do not think is what GS had in mind with the souvenir.

For example, if cachers log ECs at locations where they never actually have been (do not ask again for why should know that - there are enough cases where this is mentioned in the log anyway).

 

In my opinion the positive effects of the EC souvenir are far smaller than the negative ones. Provide arguments that this is not the case. This is is not an issue of misanthropy at all.

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And this date issue is just one element of the misanthropic complaining that is happening in this thread.

 

Of course the date issue is just one element. The souvenir also motivates other behaviour which I do not think is what GS had in mind with the souvenir.

For example, if cachers log ECs at locations where they never actually have been (do not ask again for why should know that - there are enough cases where this is mentioned in the log anyway).

 

In my opinion the positive effects of the EC souvenir are far smaller than the negative ones. Provide arguments that this is not the case. This is is not an issue of misanthropy at all.

 

Personally, I have seen no ill effects of the souvenir. The only impact has been, possible, a marginal increase in traffic to my Earthcaches, and I don't feel that those logs are more or less likely to be false. The sample size is too small to really determine that for certain.

 

Injured feelings and the desire to control others are not caused by the souvenir. Cache owners are fully capable of choosing to view other geocachers in a more positive way.

 

Cache owners are permitted to remove false logs, so there are no long-term effects as long as the cache owner is sufficiently diligent in maintaining his/her Earthcaches. If there is evidence that no visit took place, or if the Earthcache logging requirements were not met, delete the logs.

 

The presence of an ill-gotten souvenir, buried in some charlatan's profile, is not an interesting or significant issue. It has no value or impact on anybody else.

 

It all boils down to the snobbish notion that Earthcaches should be approached with some sort of reverence or inherent interest level. There is nothing in the Earthcaching program that actually demands this of finders. In light of this snobbery, I have to say that the souvenir's democratizing influence on this part of geocaching is highly positive.

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Scrutinizing other people's logs and looking for reasons to be angry seems like the bad idea here.

Is someone suggesting that? No, nobody is. We're complaining that people lie with their logs, but neither of us are suggesting a campaign to prevent, detect, or undo such behavior. In fact, both cezanne and I have intimated -- well, actually I think we've both said explicitly -- that we wouldn't delete such logs even if we detected them on our caches.

 

I just stick with my opinion that the EC souvenir is a bad idea. You are entitled to have a different opinion.

I agree with everything you're saying except blaming souvenirs for the development of that warped culture.

 

Personally, I have seen no ill effects of the souvenir.

No, I haven't either.

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I can't say that I noticed any ill effects of the souvenir as a CO. My ECs combined had 1 log on EC Day this year.

 

I think that people who want to "cheat" will do so for some reason or another. Yes, the souvenir might give them another reason to do so, but it's not the souvenir that's the problem. I personally don't really care if they're accurate about what day they visited, as long as they visited. Maybe some COs see a slug of logs that require deleting for non-visitation on EC Day, but they may have seen the same logs spread out over a different period anyway.

 

I have seen an uptick in logging during some of the other promotions (like the Road Trip). By far the majority of the logs that stood out as someone doing an EC purely for the souvenir said something along the lines of "I don't normally do ECs but decided to try yours because of the souvenir". If a promotion gives someone who doesn't normally attempt ECs a reason to try, that's a good thing to me. Maybe a good experience at my EC will prompt them to try others and find some cool geological features.

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Scrutinizing other people's logs and looking for reasons to be angry seems like the bad idea here.

Is someone suggesting that? No, nobody is. We're complaining that people lie with their logs, but neither of us are suggesting a campaign to prevent, detect, or undo such behavior. In fact, both cezanne and I have intimated -- well, actually I think we've both said explicitly -- that we wouldn't delete such logs even if we detected them on our caches.

 

The user that I was responding to mentioned that he or she does not own an Earthcache. The information he or she has gathered is based on scrutinizing other geocachers' logs and profiles.

 

I don't see how the comment about log deletion is relevant here, since the commenter doesn't own an Earthcache. And while I am highly disappointed in the attitudes expressed by some forum users, I wouldn't expect experienced geocachers to delete logs where it isn't permitted in the guidelines.

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I have seen an uptick in logging during some of the other promotions (like the Road Trip). By far the majority of the logs that stood out as someone doing an EC purely for the souvenir said something along the lines of "I don't normally do ECs but decided to try yours because of the souvenir". If a promotion gives someone who doesn't normally attempt ECs a reason to try, that's a good thing to me. Maybe a good experience at my EC will prompt them to try others and find some cool geological features.

 

This is a very good point.

 

Sometimes souvenirs prompt me to do something that is outside of my wheelhouse, and I'm not about to look down on someone who doesn't fancy Earthcaches as much as I do.

 

(It's funny, I've missed the past two Earthcache souvenirs because the day to get them is on Canadian Thanksgiving.)

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The user that I was responding to mentioned that he or she does not own an Earthcache. The information he or she has gathered is based on scrutinizing other geocachers' logs and profiles.

 

I do not need to look at other cachers' profiles. I encounter the logs in the process of reading logs as I do regardless of souvenirs or special days. Logs are there to be read.

 

I don't see how the comment about log deletion is relevant here, since the commenter doesn't own an Earthcache.

 

It is relevant because first I mentioned that I would not delete any EC log based on the date issue (and added that I use that approach for my virtual cache which is of the same flavour as it too a non physical cache which requires to send in answers and to visit certain locations) and second I replied to your comment that one can delete the log if no visit took place.

 

And while I am highly disappointed in the attitudes expressed by some forum users, I wouldn't expect experienced geocachers to delete logs where it isn't permitted in the guidelines.

 

You were the one who brought up log deletion. I even added that if the answers are correct, there is no way to delete the log even if one knows for sure that the cacher does not have visited the location. And even if the answers are not fully correct, it will be a difficult case to get log deletion through when it comes to an appeal case.

Edited by cezanne
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The user that I was responding to mentioned that he or she does not own an Earthcache. The information he or she has gathered is based on scrutinizing other geocachers' logs and profiles.

 

I do not need to look at other cachers' profiles. I encounter the logs in the process of reading logs as I do regardless of souvenirs or special days. Logs are there to be read.

 

I don't see how the comment about log deletion is relevant here, since the commenter doesn't own an Earthcache.

 

It is relevant because first I mentioned that I would not delete any EC log based on the date issue (and added that I use that approach for my virtual cache which is of the same flavour as it too a non physical cache which requires to send in answers and to visit certain locations) and second I replied to your comment that one can delete the log if no visit took place.

 

And while I am highly disappointed in the attitudes expressed by some forum users, I wouldn't expect experienced geocachers to delete logs where it isn't permitted in the guidelines.

 

You were the one who brought up log deletion. I even added that if the answers are correct, there is no way to delete the log even if one knows for sure that the cacher does not have visited the location. And even if the answers are not fully correct, it will be a difficult case to get log deletion through when it comes to an appeal case.

 

If the log on someone else's cache isn't even egregious enough to warrant valid log deletion, why choose to be bothered by it?

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(It's funny, I've missed the past two Earthcache souvenirs because the day to get them is on Canadian Thanksgiving.)

 

Yah, the only reason I've been able to go for them is because my family's been doing Thanksgiving on different weekends. I can't remember why in 2015, but this time it was because I had a 3-day course that weekend, conveniently in a town I had some unfound ECs in. I managed to squeeze one in between field work and group dinner. Would I have gone caching that day without the souvenir? Nope! But I'm glad I did, it was a cool one.

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If the log on someone else's cache isn't even egregious enough to warrant valid log deletion, why choose to be bothered by it?

 

First, valid log deletion with respect to Groundspeak's rules is possible in very few cases.

Second, as I said I think that what I'm observing suffices to be of the opinion that the EC day souvenir is a bad idea when it comes to my caching area.

 

What you and other Northamerican cachers report here does not match with what can be observed in searchjaunt's and my area. That might serve as one reason for our different opinion. Just leave it at agree to disagree on this.

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If the log on someone else's cache isn't even egregious enough to warrant valid log deletion, why choose to be bothered by it?

 

First, valid log deletion with respect to Groundspeak's rules is possible in very few cases.

Second, as I said I think that what I'm observing suffices to be of the opinion that the EC day souvenir is a bad idea when it comes to my caching area.

 

What you and other Northamerican cachers report here does not match with what can be observed in searchjaunt's and my area. That might serve as one reason for our different opinion. Just leave it at agree to disagree on this.

 

I don't see what location has to do with your decision to be bothered because people aren't finding Earthcaches for the right reason.

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I don't see what location has to do with your decision to be bothered because people aren't finding Earthcaches for the right reason.

 

It seems obvious to me that it can easily be the case that a souvenir has different effects in different areas of the world and so one might arrive at the conclusion that the souvenir is a good idea from the perspective of area A and a bad one from the perspective of area B. Of course this does not exclude the case that someone always regards the souvenir as good idea or always as a bad one regardless of their location.

 

Nothing of what you are writing convinced me to change my opinion that the EC souvenir is not a good idea in my area.

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I don't see what location has to do with your decision to be bothered because people aren't finding Earthcaches for the right reason.

 

It seems obvious to me that it can easily be the case that a souvenir has different effects in different areas of the world and so one might arrive at the conclusion that the souvenir is a good idea from the perspective of area A and a bad one from the perspective of area B. Of course this does not exclude the case that someone always regards the souvenir as good idea or always as a bad one regardless of their location.

 

Nothing of what you are writing convinced me to change my opinion that the EC souvenir is not a good idea in my area.

 

And nothing that you say convinces me that location has anything to do with your opinion.

 

You don't like the souvenir because it attracts some sort of undesirable element to Earthcaches, and you would prefer that Earthcaches stay limited in their appeal and only get visits from real geology enthusiasts who are appropriately reverent of the experience.

 

I am certain that this vicious geocaching elitism is not limited to whatever geographical space you happen to occupy.

 

It's all fine and dandy to feel that the souvenirs don't mesh with your personal vision of the game, but don't be dishonest about it.

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(It's funny, I've missed the past two Earthcache souvenirs because the day to get them is on Canadian Thanksgiving.)

 

Yah, the only reason I've been able to go for them is because my family's been doing Thanksgiving on different weekends. I can't remember why in 2015, but this time it was because I had a 3-day course that weekend, conveniently in a town I had some unfound ECs in. I managed to squeeze one in between field work and group dinner. Would I have gone caching that day without the souvenir? Nope! But I'm glad I did, it was a cool one.

 

This year I actually re-visited an Earthcache I'd been to before, because some people I was with wanted to see that particular geological feature (a crater).

 

I should log it again just to get the souvenir. :ph34r:

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You don't like the souvenir because it attracts some sort of undesirable element to Earthcaches, and you would prefer that Earthcaches stay limited in their appeal and only get visits from real geology enthusiasts who are appropriately reverent of the experience.

 

No, I do not like the souvenir because it has too many negative effects in my area which are not present in your area at a significant level (admitted cheating, admitted wrong dates and other things).

I also did not encounter any examples of what seems not uncommon in your area: namely cachers who normally do not visit ECs and only visit one on EC day.

 

What you wrote above is what I would like to have for the type of ECs that appeal to myself, but that's a completely different topic and has nothing to do with souvenirs.

Edited by cezanne
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You don't like the souvenir because it attracts some sort of undesirable element to Earthcaches, and you would prefer that Earthcaches stay limited in their appeal and only get visits from real geology enthusiasts who are appropriately reverent of the experience.

 

No, I do not like the souvenir because it has too many negative effects in my area which are not present in your area at a significant level (admitted cheating, admitted wrong dates and other things).

I also did not encounter any examples of what seems not uncommon in your area: namely cachers who normally do not visit ECs and only visit one on EC day.

 

What you wrote above is what I would like to have for the type of ECs that appeal to myself, but that's a completely different topic and has nothing to do with souvenirs.

 

Again, you have failed to demonstrate that these "negative effects," which are minor nuisances at best, are in fact prevalent where you are, or not prevalent where I am. Your decision to feel bothered by other geocachers does not actually indicate a problem.

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It seems obvious to me that it can easily be the case that a souvenir has different effects in different areas of the world and so one might arrive at the conclusion that the souvenir is a good idea from the perspective of area A and a bad one from the perspective of area B.

I'm more inclined to conclude that there's something wrong in area B and nothing bad about souvenirs anywhere. As far as I can tell, your solution is to stop publishing souvenirs, thus punishing people that live in area A where these problems aren't pervasive. My solution would be to work on the culture in area B so this kind of thing doesn't happen with or without souvenirs.

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Again, you have failed to demonstrate that these "negative effects," which are minor nuisances at best, are in fact prevalent where you are, or not prevalent where I am.

 

Having an opinion on whether something is a bad or a good idea is nothing for which there can be a proof. I explained why I think that the EC souvenir is a bad idea and I explained why the location plays a role how I form my opinion. You can form your opinion in your own way.

 

BTW: It's easier to come along with a few examples of cachers who feel motivated by the souvenir to visit an EC and normally never go for ECs than to point out the abuse of the souvenir as the latter might cause an issue with the forum guidelines (it does not seem to be welcome to link to such negative examples of logs).

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Again, you have failed to demonstrate that these "negative effects," which are minor nuisances at best, are in fact prevalent where you are, or not prevalent where I am.

 

Having an opinion on whether something is a bad or a good idea is nothing for which there can be a proof. I explained why I think that the EC souvenir is a bad idea and I explained why the location plays a role how I form my opinion. You can form your opinion in your own way.

 

BTW: It's easier to come along with a few examples of cachers who feel motivated by the souvenir to visit an EC and normally never go for ECs than to point out the abuse of the souvenir as the latter might cause an issue with the forum guidelines (it does not seem to be welcome to link to such negative examples of logs).

 

It seems possible that people are motivated by the souvenir everywhere, not just the city where you and the other commenter happen to live. I am not about to dig through profiles in order to pigeon-hole and judge geocachers who have lots of souvenirs. Souvenirs have little value on my profile, and zero value on anyone else's profile.

 

Being motivated by the souvenir isn't bad. I realize you've chosen to be bothered by it, but that doesn't make it objectively problematic.

 

I agree that you probably shouldn't start calling out individual cachers for writing logs you don't like.

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It seems possible that people are motivated by the souvenir everywhere, not just the city where you and the other commenter happen to live.

 

I'm sure that like myself the other commenter has a much larger area in mind than just a single city (in my city there are only two ECs). I observe the same behaviour for the whole country.

 

I am not about to dig through profiles in order to pigeon-hole and judge geocachers who have lots of souvenirs. Souvenirs have little value on my profile, and zero value on anyone else's profile.

 

I also do not look at the souvenir pages of other caches. I happen to read EC logs regardless of special days and souvenirs.

 

Being motivated by the souvenir isn't bad. I realize you've chosen to be bothered by it, but that doesn't make it objectively problematic.

 

I have not said anywhere that I'm bothered if someone is motivated by the EC souvenir. I do not appreciate some logging practices. That's it. One does not even need to be bothered to arrive at a certain opinion.

 

Moreover, please take into account that opinions on whether something is a good or bad idea will always be subjective. They can never be objective. Your opinion on the EC souvenir is not any more objective than mine and that's perfectly ok.

 

My objective never has been to convince you that you should have a different opinion or that you might have a different one if you lived somewhere else. I brought location in because it might be that my opinion might differ if I happened to live somewhere else.

That's nothing you can argue about as it is about me and I hoped to have that made clear.

 

I wonder much more why you are bothered if someone thinks that the EC souvenir is a bad idea. It effects you much less than the logs searchjaunt receives on EC day effect him.

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This is the first time that I have done this, but here goes.

 

Would a moderator please close this topic as it is slowly turning into a slanging match between participants and nothing constructive is coming out of it.

Thank you

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nothing constructive is coming out of it

 

Rather tell us whether you think that the souvenir is good or bad idea and why.

The question will never lead to anything constructive as this is not the intent.

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This is the first time that I have done this, but here goes.

 

Would a moderator please close this topic as it is slowly turning into a slanging match between participants and nothing constructive is coming out of it.

Thank you

 

+1

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It seems possible that people are motivated by the souvenir everywhere, not just the city where you and the other commenter happen to live.

 

I'm sure that like myself the other commenter has a much larger area in mind than just a single city (in my city there are only two ECs). I observe the same behaviour for the whole country.

 

I am not about to dig through profiles in order to pigeon-hole and judge geocachers who have lots of souvenirs. Souvenirs have little value on my profile, and zero value on anyone else's profile.

 

I also do not look at the souvenir pages of other caches. I happen to read EC logs regardless of special days and souvenirs.

 

Being motivated by the souvenir isn't bad. I realize you've chosen to be bothered by it, but that doesn't make it objectively problematic.

 

I have not said anywhere that I'm bothered if someone is motivated by the EC souvenir. I do not appreciate some logging practices. That's it. One does not even need to be bothered to arrive at a certain opinion.

 

Moreover, please take into account that opinions on whether something is a good or bad idea will always be subjective. They can never be objective. Your opinion on the EC souvenir is not any more objective than mine and that's perfectly ok.

 

My objective never has been to convince you that you should have a different opinion or that you might have a different one if you lived somewhere else. I brought location in because it might be that my opinion might differ if I happened to live somewhere else.

That's nothing you can argue about as it is about me and I hoped to have that made clear.

 

I wonder much more why you are bothered if someone thinks that the EC souvenir is a bad idea. It effects you much less than the logs searchjaunt receives on EC day effect him.

 

It's perfectly fine to think it's a bad idea.

 

I am bothered by false claims, and also by the elitism that is being demonstrated by some commenters here.

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This is the first time that I have done this, but here goes.

 

Would a moderator please close this topic as it is slowly turning into a slanging match between participants and nothing constructive is coming out of it.

Thank you

 

+1

Make that +2. I can't believe we are still talking about this. I don't think the last 20 posts have said anything new.

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Would a moderator please close this topic as it is slowly turning into a slanging match between participants and nothing constructive is coming out of it.
If you are the user who created a thread, then you can ask for it to be locked and the moderators will lock it.

 

Otherwise, you can report a thread that violates the TOU and the moderators will take appropriate action in response to the TOU violations.

 

But if you are not the user who created the thread, and the thread does not violate the TOU, then your best bet is simply to stop reading a thread if you don't like the discussion.

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Would a moderator please close this topic as it is slowly turning into a slanging match between participants and nothing constructive is coming out of it.
If you are the user who created a thread, then you can ask for it to be locked and the moderators will lock it.

 

Otherwise, you can report a thread that violates the TOU and the moderators will take appropriate action in response to the TOU violations.

 

But if you are not the user who created the thread, and the thread does not violate the TOU, then your best bet is simply to stop reading a thread if you don't like the discussion.

 

The original question was, in my opinion, a valid question. But, like so many threads, it has devolved into a shouting match about things that have nothing to do with the original question. Some users seem to like to shout endlessly with anyone who disagrees with him/her. Adding nothing to the original question.

So, sadly, I will ask the moderators to lock this thread.

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Sad.

 

Hey, will I be last to post? And get a souvenir?

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With the souvenir for logging an EarthCache last summer, I have put off finding the local EarthCaches (not that there are many), assuming that the opportunity might arise again this year. And it has!

Does the souvenir encourage EarthCache finds? Or does it discourage it?

To answer your question.

 

Some Cachers will go out and look for Earthcaches just to get the Souvenirs, others dont care and go out and enjoy the find.

Personally, I take them as they come (Earthcaches) with or without a Souvenir, I consider a Souvenir (regardless which) a Bonus, some I like others I dont. I just enjoy Geocaching.

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Some Cachers will go out and look for Earthcaches just to get the Souvenirs, others dont care and go out and enjoy the find.

Personally, I take them as they come (Earthcaches) with or without a Souvenir, I consider a Souvenir (regardless which) a Bonus, some I like others I dont. I just enjoy Geocaching.

 

I think that those who like the EC souvenir, want to get it, but live in areas where there are very few ECs end up with two possible decisions: Wait with visiting a new EC for months and visit the EC on the souvenir day or

do what most cachers in my area are doing, visit the EC when it fits in another caching tour and log the EC on the Ec souvenir day.

 

Those who do not care about the souvenir and those who have many ECs available are usually not affected.

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I am closing this thread at the request of the topic starter.

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