Soaking in Permethrin

[+Mudfrog]

I don't think that anybody is saying that it is 100% safe. One thing that *I* was saying though, is that it is important to follow the instructions.

 

However, I'm sure we're not going to change your mind. You apparently are stuck on the notion that any chemical that you don't understand is a cancer risk. And I'm sure there is some wisdom in that sort of thinking. And the incidents of Lyme in Texas a much lower than in some other parts of the country. So... good luck! To my mind, though, it is akin to having unsafe sex because you're afraid of condoms.

 

And that may be some of why my thinking is the way it is. We don't hear of lyme disease as much down here. I might think differently if i lived in an area where it was more prevalent. It is true that i do think about most all chemicals when used around me. I'm glad we have them since many of them better our lives. But i do still weigh the pros and cons when it comes to using them.

 

When talking about bugspray (no DEET) for instance,, what's worse, fighting off thousands of mosquitos with increased odds of contracting something bad, or using bugspray? Not my first choice but i'll certainly use the spray if the situation warrants it.

 

For what its worth, I don't generally bother with mosquito repellent, even here in Minnesota. Mosquitoes are, for me, mostly an annoyance (yes, there is West Nile Fever and meningitis, but those are rare). But ticks are another story for me.

 

I don't know how prevalent ticks are in your part of Texas, but Lyme is only one of a number of troubles they can bring into your life. Rocky Mountain Fever is one of several.

 

I very rarely use any repellant at all but i will use a non deet spray, mostly on the outside of my clothing, when the skeeters are swarming. Not because i'm skeered of contracting anything but because they bug me like crazy. Can't think of too many things more annoying than trying to sign a logbook while swatting at thousands of mosquitos intent on making me welt up and itch.

[knowschad]

I don't think that anybody is saying that it is 100% safe. One thing that *I* was saying though, is that it is important to follow the instructions.

 

However, I'm sure we're not going to change your mind. You apparently are stuck on the notion that any chemical that you don't understand is a cancer risk. And I'm sure there is some wisdom in that sort of thinking. And the incidents of Lyme in Texas a much lower than in some other parts of the country. So... good luck! To my mind, though, it is akin to having unsafe sex because you're afraid of condoms.

 

And that may be some of why my thinking is the way it is. We don't hear of lyme disease as much down here. I might think differently if i lived in an area where it was more prevalent. It is true that i do think about most all chemicals when used around me. I'm glad we have them since many of them better our lives. But i do still weigh the pros and cons when it comes to using them.

 

When talking about bugspray (no DEET) for instance,, what's worse, fighting off thousands of mosquitos with increased odds of contracting something bad, or using bugspray? Not my first choice but i'll certainly use the spray if the situation warrants it.

 

For what its worth, I don't generally bother with mosquito repellent, even here in Minnesota. Mosquitoes are, for me, mostly an annoyance (yes, there is West Nile Fever and meningitis, but those are rare). But ticks are another story for me.

 

I don't know how prevalent ticks are in your part of Texas, but Lyme is only one of a number of troubles they can bring into your life. Rocky Mountain Fever is one of several.

 

I very rarely use any repellant at all but i will use a non deet spray, mostly on the outside of my clothing, when the skeeters are swarming. Not because i'm skeered of contracting anything but because they bug me like crazy. Can't think of too many things more annoying than trying to sign a logbook while swatting at thousands of mosquitos intent on making me welt up and itch.

 

You do realize that a "non deet spray" is still putting chemicals on your body, don't you?

[+AustinMN]

Have you known anybody that had a long-term case of Lyme? I have a friend that had an eye bulging out of its socket. I've known people that didn't go outdoors for years because of it... it hurt to move. It is some baaaad stuff. Suit yourself, of course, but know the risks. Long term effects of Lyme are well-known.

 

+1.

 

I have a son-in-law who has serious joint issues and will for the rest of his life.

 

For me, it didn't even take long-term exposure to Lyme disease. I had "the flu" for days, was still sickly for weeks, unable to work more than 8 hours in a day, and often sleeping 12 hours a night (my wife reports I once slept 20 hours stright). After numerous doctor visits and an ER visit, we finally nailed down Lyme disease, and in my case it was soon enough that the antibiotics resulted in almost magical symptom recovery and no long-term symptoms. But...like anyone who has had it, I can get Lyme disease again. It is almost impossible to distinguish a new case from the old case because so many of the antibodies used in the testing stay in your body for years. At this point, prevention is my only option.

 

Permethrin is used to treat lice in humans, and in that form, much larger quantites are applied directly to the skin. Putting it on your clothes is a miniscule risk by comparison.

 

Austin

[+Mn-treker]

Those who avoid the chemicals should be extremely alert to early symptoms of Lyme Disease. There are almost always some early symptoms, and it is easily and effectively treated in the early stages.

 

A test for Lyme Disease is also a possibility - maybe annually for an active outdoor person who avoids permethrin & deet.

 

Often, the people do get the early symptoms, but wait to see if they will go away... which they will. Before they come back with a vengence!

 

And if you DO contract Lyme, the treatment involves being injected with chemicals.

I was told by a DR. that the test for lymes is no good till about 2 to 3 weeks after infection.

At my local clinic a DR. went to a tick symposium and just about kicked another DR. that saw me.

I had come in with a golf ball sized welt from a tick. Type unknown due to I lost it after pulling it out.

DR. said do nothing and it will get better.

Two days after seeing that DR. The other one (DR. from symposium) heard about my visit and got out my file.

This DR. was not even my DR. and went balistick on the DR that had seen me. Then That DR. put me on docyciclin. That DR. learned that it is better

to give drugs and worry about test later due to how long you must wait till the test can be done.

None of my tests ever showed positive. A side note both DRS. are female, one was superior to the other.

After that episode now any time somebody comes in with a tick bite they get Doxy.

There is also another tick disease to think about. Anaplasmosis: It has the same symptoms as Lymes and is spread by all ticks.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Mn-treker

[knowschad]

Those who avoid the chemicals should be extremely alert to early symptoms of Lyme Disease. There are almost always some early symptoms, and it is easily and effectively treated in the early stages.

 

A test for Lyme Disease is also a possibility - maybe annually for an active outdoor person who avoids permethrin & deet.

 

Often, the people do get the early symptoms, but wait to see if they will go away... which they will. Before they come back with a vengence!

 

And if you DO contract Lyme, the treatment involves being injected with chemicals.

I was told by a DR. that the test for lymes is no good till about 2 to 3 weeks after infection.

At my local clinic a DR. went to a tick symposium and just about kicked another DR. that saw me.

I had come in with a golf ball sized welt from a tick. Type unknown due to I lost it after pulling it out.

DR. said do nothing and it will get better.

Two days after seeing that DR. The other one (DR. from symposium) heard about my visit and got out my file.

This DR. was not even my DR. and went balistick on the DR that had seen me. Then That DR. put me on docyciclin. That DR. learned that it is better

to give drugs and worry about test later due to how long you must wait till the test can be done.

None of my tests ever showed positive. A side note both DRS. are female, one was superior to the other.

After that episode now any time somebody comes in with a tick bite they get Doxy.

There is also another tick disease to think about. Anaplasmosis: It has the same symptoms as Lymes and is spread by all ticks.

 

I had my doctor test me this spring (I got a small tick attached to my chest early this spring, before I had treated my clothing). Because of his small size, I was unable to get the head out, and it infected. Anyway, the doctor actually had them run two tests... one to show early Lyme infection (from this bite) and one to show an old infection from past bites. So there may be some new technology since you dealt with that.

 

(I was negative on both tests)

[+Touchstone]

Those who avoid the chemicals should be extremely alert to early symptoms of Lyme Disease. There are almost always some early symptoms, and it is easily and effectively treated in the early stages.

 

A test for Lyme Disease is also a possibility - maybe annually for an active outdoor person who avoids permethrin & deet.

 

Often, the people do get the early symptoms, but wait to see if they will go away... which they will. Before they come back with a vengence!

 

And if you DO contract Lyme, the treatment involves being injected with chemicals.

I was told by a DR. that the test for lymes is no good till about 2 to 3 weeks after infection.

At my local clinic a DR. went to a tick symposium and just about kicked another DR. that saw me.

I had come in with a golf ball sized welt from a tick. Type unknown due to I lost it after pulling it out.

DR. said do nothing and it will get better.

Two days after seeing that DR. The other one (DR. from symposium) heard about my visit and got out my file.

This DR. was not even my DR. and went balistick on the DR that had seen me. Then That DR. put me on docyciclin. That DR. learned that it is better

to give drugs and worry about test later due to how long you must wait till the test can be done.

None of my tests ever showed positive. A side note both DRS. are female, one was superior to the other.

After that episode now any time somebody comes in with a tick bite they get Doxy.

There is also another tick disease to think about. Anaplasmosis: It has the same symptoms as Lymes and is spread by all ticks.

 

I had my doctor test me this spring (I got a small tick attached to my chest early this spring, before I had treated my clothing). Because of his small size, I was unable to get the head out, and it infected. Anyway, the doctor actually had them run two tests... one to show early Lyme infection (from this bite) and one to show an old infection from past bites. So there may be some new technology since you dealt with that.

 

(I was negative on both tests)

You probably had the EIA and Western Blot tests done:

 

Two Step Laboratory Testing for Lymes Disease

 

Although it sounds if you were negative on the EIA test, it's really not necessary to do the Western Blot, which is mainly used to ruleout false positives from the first.

 

Sounds like Doxy is the drug of choice, and treatment is largely empirical based. Dosing everyone with Doxy that has a tick bite sounds a bit overkill to me, but then I don't live in an endemic area.

 

PCR methods are available, but due to the cost and expertise required, isn't widely available yet. Similarly, if you still have the tick, it can also be tested by PCR for the causative organism, Borrelia burgdorferi. Testing the tick is not generally recommended, nor should treatment be based on the result that comes back (i.e. a negative result doesn't necessarily mean anything).

 

In my home State, the Vector Born Disease Section of the California Dept of Public Health has a surveillance program to monitor the spread of B. burgdorferi, along with a host of other musquito and tick born diseases (e.g. hantavirus, West Nile, etc.). I'm sure that many States have similar surveillance programs in place.

[+Mn-treker]

Those who avoid the chemicals should be extremely alert to early symptoms of Lyme Disease. There are almost always some early symptoms, and it is easily and effectively treated in the early stages.

 

A test for Lyme Disease is also a possibility - maybe annually for an active outdoor person who avoids permethrin & deet.

 

Often, the people do get the early symptoms, but wait to see if they will go away... which they will. Before they come back with a vengence!

 

And if you DO contract Lyme, the treatment involves being injected with chemicals.

I was told by a DR. that the test for lymes is no good till about 2 to 3 weeks after infection.

At my local clinic a DR. went to a tick symposium and just about kicked another DR. that saw me.

I had come in with a golf ball sized welt from a tick. Type unknown due to I lost it after pulling it out.

DR. said do nothing and it will get better.

Two days after seeing that DR. The other one (DR. from symposium) heard about my visit and got out my file.

This DR. was not even my DR. and went balistick on the DR that had seen me. Then That DR. put me on docyciclin. That DR. learned that it is better

to give drugs and worry about test later due to how long you must wait till the test can be done.

None of my tests ever showed positive. A side note both DRS. are female, one was superior to the other.

After that episode now any time somebody comes in with a tick bite they get Doxy.

There is also another tick disease to think about. Anaplasmosis: It has the same symptoms as Lymes and is spread by all ticks.

 

I had my doctor test me this spring (I got a small tick attached to my chest early this spring, before I had treated my clothing). Because of his small size, I was unable to get the head out, and it infected. Anyway, the doctor actually had them run two tests... one to show early Lyme infection (from this bite) and one to show an old infection from past bites. So there may be some new technology since you dealt with that.

 

(I was negative on both tests)

Yes they are improving on testing, yes they are monitoring for many differnt ifections.

Years ago, 1996 I had the worst sinus infection seen. The MN dept. of health found out about it

and ordered I undergo a whole barage of tests. Lymes was one. it came back with a slight hint of possible.

That is how primative the test was then. It turned out I had an unidentified, unidentifiable fungus.

Which then went to Strep A and Staff. That almost killed me, 1mm from entering my brain. I was being

eaten from the inside by that.

Surgery and Clyndamyacin for a year and half.

Also two more surgeies since then. At some point they may get a vaccine for lymes. They have one for dogs now. The Drs. are so willing to give antibiotics for possible Lymes due to so little is understood

about it. Some people get Doxy by IV for a month. It is now suspected that MS may be related to lymes.

There is a whole lot to learn yet. DRs. need to be open to all possibles.

[knowschad]

Oh... they HAVE a vaccine for humans. Or, had. I've heard that it was pulled from the market due to lack of interest, and also that it was pulled due to reported side-effects.

 

http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v20/n7/full/nm0714-698.html (4th paragraph)

 

But apparently there is a new one on the horizon: http://www.medicaldaily.com/new-lyme-disease-vaccine-shows-promise-preventing-bacterial-sources-infection-312910 (this article also mentions the previous vaccine in its final paragraph)

[+Mudfrog]

I don't think that anybody is saying that it is 100% safe. One thing that *I* was saying though, is that it is important to follow the instructions.

 

However, I'm sure we're not going to change your mind. You apparently are stuck on the notion that any chemical that you don't understand is a cancer risk. And I'm sure there is some wisdom in that sort of thinking. And the incidents of Lyme in Texas a much lower than in some other parts of the country. So... good luck! To my mind, though, it is akin to having unsafe sex because you're afraid of condoms.

 

And that may be some of why my thinking is the way it is. We don't hear of lyme disease as much down here. I might think differently if i lived in an area where it was more prevalent. It is true that i do think about most all chemicals when used around me. I'm glad we have them since many of them better our lives. But i do still weigh the pros and cons when it comes to using them.

 

When talking about bugspray (no DEET) for instance,, what's worse, fighting off thousands of mosquitos with increased odds of contracting something bad, or using bugspray? Not my first choice but i'll certainly use the spray if the situation warrants it.

 

For what its worth, I don't generally bother with mosquito repellent, even here in Minnesota. Mosquitoes are, for me, mostly an annoyance (yes, there is West Nile Fever and meningitis, but those are rare). But ticks are another story for me.

 

I don't know how prevalent ticks are in your part of Texas, but Lyme is only one of a number of troubles they can bring into your life. Rocky Mountain Fever is one of several.

 

I very rarely use any repellant at all but i will use a non deet spray, mostly on the outside of my clothing, when the skeeters are swarming. Not because i'm skeered of contracting anything but because they bug me like crazy. Can't think of too many things more annoying than trying to sign a logbook while swatting at thousands of mosquitos intent on making me welt up and itch.

 

You do realize that a "non deet spray" is still putting chemicals on your body, don't you?

 

Of course i do. That's why i stated that i rarely use any repellent and that if i do, it is applied to the outside of my clothing. I have personally witnessed a short term reaction to using a deet product on one of my family. That chemical will not be used at all around us!

 

I maintain that i would rather not and try my darndest not to use any of these chemicals. However, there are times when the threat/annoyance outweighs the potential problems of using them. Again, if i do use it, then it is used on the outside of my clothing where i believe there is less contact with my skin.

 

Everyone can do as they want but i'm not going to intentionally soak my clothing in permethrin, or any other any other chemical, that i know will be in constant contact with my skin...

[+Mudfrog]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

[+AustinMN]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

Edited July 16, 2015 by AustinMN

[+narcissa]

If I couldn't use DEET, I wouldn't go outside. DEET is amazing.

[+AustinMN]

If I couldn't use DEET, I wouldn't go outside. DEET is amazing.

 

I find it remarkably helpful. I just wish deerflies read the DEET label. There are places I won't go near this time of year even with a shower of DEET.

 

Also, it doesn't do much to keep ticks off.

[+Mn-treker]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

It also looks like it may have started in New York. That map is most dense there.

[knowschad]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

 

[knowschad]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

 

[+BlackRose67]

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

Ticks are not just a rural problem. I've picked up ticks while urban caching.

[+Mudfrog]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

 

 

The animation starts in 2002 and shows growth in lyme disease reports through the years. Our hobby's popularity has steadily grown since that time as well. Wonder if there is a correlation?

[+AustinMN]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

It also looks like it may have started in New York. That map is most dense there.

 

The first reported case of Lyme disease was in a boy in Lyme Connecticut (which is in New England, not New York). My son-in-law contracted it as a child in the 1990's in Pennsylvania.

[knowschad]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

 

 

The animation starts in 2002 and shows growth in lyme disease reports through the years. Our hobby's popularity has steadily grown since that time as well. Wonder if there is a correlation?

 

Haha! Good question. Started on the wrong coast, though. Can you work that into your theory, somehow?

[knowschad]

The first reported case of Lyme disease was in a boy in Lyme Connecticut

Wow!! What a strange coincidence, huh?

[+Mn-treker]

The first reported case of Lyme disease was in a boy in Lyme Connecticut

Wow!! What a strange coincidence, huh?

That may have been the first diagnosed case.

But it has been around a lot longer than that. Arthritis and other joint problems may be related to it.

Research is now showing a relationship to many things. High dose by IV of Doxy over a long period of time has been shown to help MS.

I say break out the DDT maybe that will fix things Use it for two years then stop so we don't have the problems

that it caused back when it was used heavily. We kill a bunch of ticks skeeters and deer flies :

the Snakes Fox and coyotes can get the mice. Then the bacteria that caused all this go away.

After all getting rid of rats stopped the plague.

[knowschad]

The first reported case of Lyme disease was in a boy in Lyme Connecticut

Wow!! What a strange coincidence, huh?

That may have been the first diagnosed case.

But it has been around a lot longer than that. Arthritis and other joint problems may be related to it.

Research is now showing a relationship to many things. High dose by IV of Doxy over a long period of time has been shown to help MS.

I say break out the DDT maybe that will fix things Use it for two years then stop so we don't have the problems

that it caused back when it was used heavily. We kill a bunch of ticks skeeters and deer flies :

the Snakes Fox and coyotes can get the mice. Then the bacteria that caused all this go away.

After all getting rid of rats stopped the plague.

 

Permethrin soaked cotton balls. Kill those white-footed mice.

 

Or, the Texas Two-Step approach:

 

http://www.treeandlawncare.com/blog/preventing-lyme-disease-texas-style-tick-control

 

 

(in part:)

His solution is the 4-Poster Deer Treatment Bait Station – a feeding station left out in the wild, which offers deer delicious treats and feed. Unbeknownst to the hungry deer, however, the Bait Station is designed to apply insecticide to the deer’s head, ears and neck as it feeds (and the deer later spreads it to other parts of its body during grooming.) The insecticide is harmless to deer, but kills ticks on contact – stopping their spread in its (deer) tracks.

 

Pound also pioneered a second approach, which could equally be adopted in the rest of the United States. He administered an injection of time-released doramectin to cattle in the tick ‘risk zone,’ protecting them for up to four months against the bovine babesiosis bacterium the ticks spread through their bites. This method could be used on deer to prevent them becoming carriers for borrelia burgdorferi as well.

 

 

[+Mudfrog]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

 

 

The animation starts in 2002 and shows growth in lyme disease reports through the years. Our hobby's popularity has steadily grown since that time as well. Wonder if there is a correlation?

 

Haha! Good question. Started on the wrong coast, though. Can you work that into your theory, somehow?

 

Has nothing to do with west versus east coast. Just saying that there are more and more people geocaching every year and more and more cases of lyme disease reported every year. I would suspect that the increased popularity of geocaching has played a part in the increase in reports. Just curious as to how big a part, if any?

[knowschad]

Ah hah,, I think i see the basis for concern here. Allthough this doesn't give numbers, it does show that lyme disease is mostly regional and has more reported cases up north. Yes, i might look at this a bit more differently if i lived up that way...

 

 

Thirty years ago, it would have been a small circle in Connecticut.

20 years ago, it would have been in Pennsylvania, New York, and New England.

 

<cue scary music here>

 

If you live in North America, it is coming. If you do rural caching (vs urban caching), it is coming for you.

 

Austin

 

 

The animation starts in 2002 and shows growth in lyme disease reports through the years. Our hobby's popularity has steadily grown since that time as well. Wonder if there is a correlation?

 

Haha! Good question. Started on the wrong coast, though. Can you work that into your theory, somehow?

 

Has nothing to do with west versus east coast. Just saying that there are more and more people geocaching every year and more and more cases of lyme disease reported every year. I would suspect that the increased popularity of geocaching has played a part in the increase in reports. Just curious as to how big a part, if any?

 

But why would they report it more in the east than in the west?

 

Seriously... no... the deer tick has been spreading... moving westward like Horace Greeley's young men.

[+jellis]

We have ticks big time here and with the drought it doesn't help. I think with more caches being placed in cities where you least likely get much reports of ticks. But I know a few cachers who are totally Tick magnets. They can't help but get them. I tried to get them to use Permethrin but they just boo haa me.

[knowschad]

Adult deer tick on the left, nymphal stage on the right.

 

 

That is barely larger than this period.

[+Mn-treker]

Adult deer tick on the left, nymphal stage on the right.

 

 

That is barely larger than this period.

Those deer ticks come even smaller than that. Try clear like a water drop with only the black legs visible.

that is the nymph stage. Guardrail10 got nailed by one.

[+GO Geiger]

I live in WNY and am one of those aforementioned tick magnets. Over the past few years I went from having 1 tick (on a trip to Ohio), to 2 ticks (within 15 miles of home), to somewhere around 10 crawling on me this year (Sleepy Hollow, NY; New England; West Virginia). Fortunately only 2 bites in that time and they were removed shortly after the ticks latched on. (When I informed my doctor's office of the second bite, his helpful receptionist said 'My daughter in the Hudson Valley gets bitten all the time. You'll live', or words to that effect. Great bedside manner! No tests were proposed even after I asked about them.)

 

I can confirm that at least the New England ticks don't pay any attention to DEET, no matter what the side of the can says. For our next trip I've picked up some of the permethrin-in-a-can spray. Hopefully that will work.

[+Astro_D]

I don't know how it is today, but in 2011, according to the CDC guidelines, I could not be reported as having Lyme disease as I never has a positive test result despite having the clinical symptoms (minus the rash). Back then, it was all about the test to confirm a diagnosis.

 

Finally found a Lyme literate doctor, who after reviewing my symptoms, timeline, and previous Lyme tests, diagnosed me with late stage Lyme. He started me on a many month antibiotic regime.

 

It took over a year to get my life back. To this day, I have arthritis in my hips and knees, and I'll always live with the spirochete in my body. Not only does one need to battle Lyme (and many of the co-infections that come along with it), one needs to battle the medical community (the CDC and their stupid guidelines) to even get proper diagnosis and treatment. You can bet that if I know I'm going to be anywhere the potential that ticks exist, I'll be donning my permathrin clothing. While deet isn't as effective, I still use that in addition to the permathrin. I'm not taking any chances of contracting this life altering disease again.

[knowschad]

For our next trip I've picked up some of the permethrin-in-a-can spray. Hopefully that will work.

Read the instructions!!!

[+AustinMN]

For our next trip I've picked up some of the permethrin-in-a-can spray. Hopefully that will work.

Read the instructions!!!

 

+1.

[+BlackRose67]

For our next trip I've picked up some of the permethrin-in-a-can spray. Hopefully that will work.

Read the instructions!!!

Definitely, and if you have any cats, be EXTREMELY careful!!!!

[knowschad]

For our next trip I've picked up some of the permethrin-in-a-can spray. Hopefully that will work.

Read the instructions!!!

Definitely, and if you have any cats, be EXTREMELY careful!!!!

 

Likewise, any pet wood ticks.

[+GO Geiger]

For our next trip I've picked up some of the permethrin-in-a-can spray. Hopefully that will work.

Read the instructions!!!

Definitely, and if you have any cats, be EXTREMELY careful!!!!

 

Likewise, any pet wood ticks.

 

Fortunately, I can answer 'no' to both (no pets of any kind at the moment).

[ATMouse]

I sprayed my pants a year ago and still no ticks. But didn't spray my shirt and found a tick on my sleeve.

 

Also if you love your cat do not use the product near them until they dry. It seems to only effect the nervous system in cats. And hear also to try not go in any water sources like rivers or lakes.

 

I was told if a cat laid on a piece of cloth impregnated with it, it could kill them. No, thanks for me.

[+cerberus1]

I sprayed my pants a year ago and still no ticks. But didn't spray my shirt and found a tick on my sleeve.

 

Also if you love your cat do not use the product near them until they dry. It seems to only effect the nervous system in cats. And hear also to try not go in any water sources like rivers or lakes.

 

I was told if a cat laid on a piece of cloth impregnated with it, it could kill them. No, thanks for me.

Not true. Only while the material's still wet in treatment.

Until we moved, with tons more storage space, for years (since '02...) I'd lay treated clothes on a rack, and the next days wear would be on a valet chair.

It was my cats favorite spot. Over thirteen years old now.

[ATMouse]

I sprayed my pants a year ago and still no ticks. But didn't spray my shirt and found a tick on my sleeve.

 

Also if you love your cat do not use the product near them until they dry. It seems to only effect the nervous system in cats. And hear also to try not go in any water sources like rivers or lakes.

 

I was told if a cat laid on a piece of cloth impregnated with it, it could kill them. No thanks, for me.

Not true. Only while the material's still wet in treatment.

Until we moved, with tons more storage space, for years (since '02...) I'd lay treated clothes on a rack, and the next days wear would be on a valet chair.

It was my cats favorite spot. Over thirteen years old now.

 

Strangely, I was told that by someone just a day or so ago. I don't know the truth of it.

 

I get skittish about all the chemicals that have been introduced into our environment.

 

I am aware of the nasty stuff ticks can carry that are life-changers. Thanks for the clarification.

[knowschad]

I have friends with two cats. They treat their clothing with the stuff and have never had any problems. Of course, I have no way of knowing if their cats have ever made contact with their treated clothing.

 

I did find this:

http://cathealth.livejournal.com/2388513.html

 

(in part: I attended a clinic at work with one of the guys from Sawyer (they manufacture a bunch of different repellants, sunscreen, etc.). He claimed that once permethrin is dry, there is no risk at all to cats, and that problems only arise when folks treat fabrics and cats come into contact with still-wet fabric.)

 

And this, from Sawyer: http://sawyer.com/technology/permethrin/

Do not expose cats to wet Permethrin as it affects their central nervous system. This is not true with dogs, horses, or cows. Cats can be around Permethrin treated fabrics once the application has dried.

 

There is a lot more online if you Google it. As expected, however, opinions are mixed and sources are often amateur.

 

[+Mn-treker]

Funny as I write this the song I'd like to check you for ticks is on the radio.

Today I went into waist high grass. I thought that I came out clean.

I went to work and then to an event at a pizza place. While I was talking

With somebody a wood tick went crawling along my arm. Geeze it had been five hours since that field. Lucky me that was the only one, I hope.

[+JohnCNA]

I have found a tick on the back of my car seat a week after the last time I was in the woods. Bugger must have fallen off in the car when I came back from the woods and it took him all that time to climb up to where he was visible. Or more likely, hitched a ride on my backpack and got dislodged when I took it off and threw it in the back. I now spray my gear with Permethrin, too.

Edited July 26, 2015 by JohnCNA

[+Mn-treker]

Spray the car seat also. I have found dead ones a day after going caching.

They were on the floor and seat. Spraying the seat will be just like pretreating your clothes. I also spray the floor carpet in the car/ truck.

[+WarNinjas]

It does say it "is poorly absorbed through the skin" Should be fine to use. As far as around cats, if it is like most liquid pesticides once it is dry it should be OK around them. Still do your own research before trying that out.