Soaking in Permethrin

[+Mitragorz]

I've been using the spray-on stuff, which I'm very pleased with, but thought I'd give soaking a try. So I bought a big bottle of the 36.8% concentrate.

 

My question is: After soaking, is it OK to dry the clothes in a dryer, or will the heat prevent the permethrin from latching onto the clothing? It's been very, very humid here and if I hang the stuff outside it's going to take forever to dry!

[knowschad]

I believe you are SUPPOSED to dry them in a drier to set the permethryn.

 

I have been using permethryn for tick prevention for about three years now. I treat an entire set of clothing, including shirt, pants, tshirts, socks, underwear, and even a web belt. As soon as I get home, those come off and get stored in a spare room. The only ticks that I've picked up since have been a couple of times that I went out without the treated clothing.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I believe you are SUPPOSED to dry them in a drier to set the permethryn.

 

I have been using permethryn for tick prevention for about three years now. I treat an entire set of clothing, including shirt, pants, tshirts, socks, underwear, and even a web belt. As soon as I get home, those come off and get stored in a spare room. The only ticks that I've picked up since have been a couple of times that I went out without the treated clothing.

 

The instructions that I've seen indicate to hang dry but it sounds like using a dryer worked for you. I suppose you could always hang dry for a couple of hours then finish them off in a dryer. The usage instructions indicate the it will still be effective after six washings and at least one site I saw indicated to use a washer and dryer for that.

[+Mitragorz]

I've heard of quite a few ways to approach it... Some people say hang dry when applying, then after it's set you can wash/dry as normal... I've also read of people hang-drying for a while then finishing it off in the dryer to "seal" it.

[+Touchstone]

I've always line dried, in order to fully bond the permethrin to the fabric of the clothing I was treating. I suppose a clothes dryer will do the trick as well, but I'm guessing the some of the residual permethrin will come off inside the dryer drum and coat subsequent garments unintentionally.

[+jenny08_1015]

I use the Sawyer brand and I don't recall it specifying to put it in the dryer. I normally air dry.

[knowschad]

I believe you are SUPPOSED to dry them in a drier to set the permethryn.

 

I have been using permethryn for tick prevention for about three years now. I treat an entire set of clothing, including shirt, pants, tshirts, socks, underwear, and even a web belt. As soon as I get home, those come off and get stored in a spare room. The only ticks that I've picked up since have been a couple of times that I went out without the treated clothing.

 

The instructions that I've seen indicate to hang dry but it sounds like using a dryer worked for you. I suppose you could always hang dry for a couple of hours then finish them off in a dryer. The usage instructions indicate the it will still be effective after six washings and at least one site I saw indicated to use a washer and dryer for that.

 

I stand corrected... I do hang to dry, but then "set" them in the dryer.

 

Some good information about maximizing the effectiveness: https://sawyer.com/maximize-effectiveness-permethrin-fabric-treatment/

 

And here is a place that will give your own garments a commercial treatment that will last for the life of the garments (70 launderings): http://www.tickencounter.org/resources/InsectShieldYourOwnClothes_TERC.pdf

 

(that last site is also a superb reference on all things tick-worthy)

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I believe you are SUPPOSED to dry them in a drier to set the permethryn.

 

I have been using permethryn for tick prevention for about three years now. I treat an entire set of clothing, including shirt, pants, tshirts, socks, underwear, and even a web belt. As soon as I get home, those come off and get stored in a spare room. The only ticks that I've picked up since have been a couple of times that I went out without the treated clothing.

 

The instructions that I've seen indicate to hang dry but it sounds like using a dryer worked for you. I suppose you could always hang dry for a couple of hours then finish them off in a dryer. The usage instructions indicate the it will still be effective after six washings and at least one site I saw indicated to use a washer and dryer for that.

 

I stand corrected... I do hang to dry, but then "set" them in the dryer.

 

Some good information about maximizing the effectiveness: https://sawyer.com/m...bric-treatment/

 

And here is a place that will give your own garments a commercial treatment that will last for the life of the garments (70 launderings): http://www.tickencou...lothes_TERC.pdf

 

(that last site is also a superb reference on all things tick-worthy)

 

Interesting. There are also lots of clothing manufacturing the sell clothing with bug repellant characteristics. For example, ex-Officio sells "Bugsaway apparel" with Insect Shield treatment. Columbia calls it "Insect Blocker ".

 

 

[+kunarion]

And here is a place that will give your own garments a commercial treatment that will last for the life of the garments (70 launderings): http://www.tickencounter.org/resources/InsectShieldYourOwnClothes_TERC.pdf

That's awesome! One of the issues I've had is the limited selection of pre-treated clothing. But professionally treated is the way to go. I spray (with Sawyers) backpacks, shoes, socks, sometimes even my cache camo .

[+cerberus1]

After Lyme disease and a few recurring, no real choice but treat everything, even our tent netting.

Like others, the only thing I don't spray is boxers or briefs.

Everything's line/air dried as per the manufacturers directions.

After drying and not in use, I put treated clothes in garment bags with gear in a corner of a closet .

[knowschad]

One more thing: treat your car seats.

[+briansnat]

And here is a place that will give your own garments a commercial treatment that will last for the life of the garments (70 launderings): http://www.tickencounter.org/resources/InsectShieldYourOwnClothes_TERC.pdf

That's awesome! One of the issues I've had is the limited selection of pre-treated clothing. But professionally treated is the way to go. I spray (with Sawyers) backpacks, shoes, socks, sometimes even my cache camo .

 

Definitely don't forget your backpack and other equipment. I once came home from a day of geocaching and threw my pack on the couch. I then put my clothing in the dryer to kill any unnoticed hitchikers, took a shower and did a full body tick check. I woke up in the morning with a tick imbedded in my chest. The only explanation I could come up with was that it rode in on my pack, jumped off when I put it on the couch and was waiting for my warm body when I sat down on the couch.

 

One more thing: treat your car seats.

 

And rug too. No point in going through a tick check after coming home from caching, only to have one latch on on while you're driving to work the next day. That's actually something I never thought of, but a great idea.

Edited July 10, 2015 by briansnat

[+WarNinjas]

I have never used this and doubt I ever would but the only thing I would think is that the heat from the dryer might break down the chemical. If you were to use the dryer I would go with a low heat setting. And like said above some of the Permethrin might transfer to the next thing you dry so I wouldn't do any baby clothes or towels in the next dry cycle. I would probably run it hot afterwards to break down anything left in there with something you don't care about.

Edited July 10, 2015 by WarNinjas

[+WarNinjas]

I just re-read your original post and you mentioned heat. I don't think the heat will stop it from bonding to the clothing but all pesticides have a life span. Heat will shorten it along with other things and break it down.

[knowschad]

I just re-read your original post and you mentioned heat. I don't think the heat will stop it from bonding to the clothing but all pesticides have a life span. Heat will shorten it along with other things and break it down.

 

According to the manufacturer, the agitation in water while washing does much more to reduce the effectiveness than the dryer does.

[knowschad]

I have never used this and doubt I ever would but the only thing I would think is that the heat from the dryer might break down the chemical. If you were to use the dryer I would go with a low heat setting. And like said above some of the Permethrin might transfer to the next thing you dry so I wouldn't do any baby clothes or towels in the next dry cycle. I would probably run it hot afterwards to break down anything left in there with something you don't care about.

 

Permethrin is synthesized from the natural insecticide in marigolds. That by itself wouldn't be enough to give me warm fuzzies about it, but from what I've read, I'll take that risk over the risk of Lyme disease or other tick-born infections.

The thing is, permethrin is actually a toxin to ticks, not merely a repellant. I have put live ticks on a piece of fabric inside of a circle that I had soaked with a DEET-based repellant and had them totally ignore it and walk right through it. If they tried that with permetrin-treated clothing, they would be dead.

 

Wikipedia's entry on human toxicity of permethrin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin#Human_exposure

[+Mudfrog]

I have never used this and doubt I ever would but the only thing I would think is that the heat from the dryer might break down the chemical. If you were to use the dryer I would go with a low heat setting. And like said above some of the Permethrin might transfer to the next thing you dry so I wouldn't do any baby clothes or towels in the next dry cycle. I would probably run it hot afterwards to break down anything left in there with something you don't care about.

 

Permethrin is synthesized from the natural insecticide in marigolds. That by itself wouldn't be enough to give me warm fuzzies about it, but from what I've read, I'll take that risk over the risk of Lyme disease or other tick-born infections.

The thing is, permethrin is actually a toxin to ticks, not merely a repellant. I have put live ticks on a piece of fabric inside of a circle that I had soaked with a DEET-based repellant and had them totally ignore it and walk right through it. If they tried that with permetrin-treated clothing, they would be dead.

 

Wikipedia's entry on human toxicity of permethrin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin#Human_exposure

 

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

[+cerberus1]

The thing is, permethrin is actually a toxin to ticks, not merely a repellant. I have put live ticks on a piece of fabric inside of a circle that I had soaked with a DEET-based repellant and had them totally ignore it and walk right through it. If they tried that with permetrin-treated clothing, they would be dead.

+1

CJ and I attended an event in an area in NJ that's known for a horrible tick population.

All our clothes and gear sprayed with permethrin.

Folks were freaking out when they saw ticks walking across their shoes like ants!

CJ and I were sitting on the ground, on a sprayed tarp having lunch.

You could see the line of ticks avoiding us.

I picked one up, dropped that nasty bugger on our tarp, and it crinkled up like you lit a torch to it.

- We had a few converts that day.

[knowschad]

I have never used this and doubt I ever would but the only thing I would think is that the heat from the dryer might break down the chemical. If you were to use the dryer I would go with a low heat setting. And like said above some of the Permethrin might transfer to the next thing you dry so I wouldn't do any baby clothes or towels in the next dry cycle. I would probably run it hot afterwards to break down anything left in there with something you don't care about.

 

Permethrin is synthesized from the natural insecticide in marigolds. That by itself wouldn't be enough to give me warm fuzzies about it, but from what I've read, I'll take that risk over the risk of Lyme disease or other tick-born infections.

The thing is, permethrin is actually a toxin to ticks, not merely a repellant. I have put live ticks on a piece of fabric inside of a circle that I had soaked with a DEET-based repellant and had them totally ignore it and walk right through it. If they tried that with permetrin-treated clothing, they would be dead.

 

Wikipedia's entry on human toxicity of permethrin: https://en.wikipedia...#Human_exposure

 

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Have you known anybody that had a long-term case of Lyme? I have a friend that had an eye bulging out of its socket. I've known people that didn't go outdoors for years because of it... it hurt to move. It is some baaaad stuff. Suit yourself, of course, but know the risks. Long term effects of Lyme are well-known.

[+kunarion]

I picked one up, dropped that nasty bugger on our tarp, and it crinkled up like you lit a torch to it.

The first cache I went to, I came out of the woods with a tick on my jeans. The tick was dead. Like Mudfrog, I was a little concerned about a chemical that kills on contact. That is, you know, wearing it. But I've survived. So far, so good.

 

It's great to be able to cache anywhere without having to "check for ticks", and not discovering wayward ticks days later most anywhere (car, sofa at home, etc.). I'm a tick magnet. I'm definitely sold on Permethin. It doesn't get sprayed on you, it's a dry material in the cloth. It's so much better than DEET at clearing ticks, I'm pretty sure it will be banned. So I'm stocking up.

 

One problem with Permethrin is complacency. I never see a live tick anymore, so I'm tempted to go caching on a whim sometimes, in unPeremthrin clothes. Bad idea.

 

The other problem is cache placement. No issue at all for me. But I get plenty of logs about how bad the ticks are. Around here, there are many mammals carrying ticks around to the branches and brush.

Edited July 10, 2015 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

I picked one up, dropped that nasty bugger on our tarp, and it crinkled up like you lit a torch to it.

The first cache I went to, I came out of the woods with a tick on my jeans. The tick was dead. Like Mudfrog, I was a little concerned about a chemical that kills on contact. That is, you know, wearing it. But I've survived. So far, so good.

 

It's great to be able to cache anywhere without having to "check for ticks", and not discovering wayward ticks days later most anywhere (car, sofa at home, etc.). I'm a tick magnet. I'm definitely sold on Permethin. It doesn't get sprayed on you, it's a dry material in the cloth. It's so much better than DEET at clearing ticks, I'm pretty sure it will be banned. So I'm stocking up.

 

One problem with Permethrin is complacency. I never see a live tick anymore, so I'm tempted to go caching on a whim sometimes, in unPeremthrin clothes. Bad idea.

 

The other problem is cache placement. No issue at all for me. But I get plenty of logs about how bad the ticks are. Around here, there are many mammals carrying ticks around to the branches and brush.

We have deer and bear crossing our mowed yard regularly, and have had relatives pick up a tick once in a while just walking to the pool.

- We tell 'em to stay on the sidewalk. Maybe they were thinking of grass clippings

Now they know why I only wear treated clothes when out. Anywhere.

 

I agree, DEET isn't happening here anymore.

Multiple screen shields, fly lines, tent screens,(too long to list...) melts pretty-much anything plastic/rubber.

A neighbor we cache with complained once that her new GPSr buttons were worn.

Well yeah, we can smell all the DEET on ya.

[+hukilaulau]

 

One problem with Permethrin is complacency. I never see a live tick anymore, so I'm tempted to go caching on a whim sometimes, in unPeremthrin clothes. Bad idea.

 

The other problem is cache placement. No issue at all for me. But I get plenty of logs about how bad the ticks are. Around here, there are many mammals carrying ticks around to the branches and brush.

Yep. I've learned the hard way that permethrin doesn't work so well when I just leave the can in the truck instead of actually spraying.

 

Some folks around here virtually stop caching in the woods for the summer. I've got some caches that have been out for months with only one or two finders.

 

I have always just sprayed clothes, boots, hat, pack and car seat just as I'm heading out. That professional treating idea looks interesting though...

[+Viajero Perdido]

A neighbor we cache with complained once that her new GPSr buttons were worn.

Well yeah, we can smell all the DEET on ya.

Ayep. DEET will wipe the labels right off the buttons on a Garmin faster than you can say mosquito. Hope you can remember what each button does.

 

I remember my first quality calculator, back when the Hewlett Packard brand was synonymous with quality. Long ago. Those button labels were molded right into the plastic. You could sandblast an HP calculator for hours, and though it'd look horrible, you'd still be able to read the buttons.

 

Back to the present. Don't touch a Garmin with DEET-soaked fingers. (This new icaridin sounds promising...)

 

There's one more advantage of phone caching. Touchscreens are glass; DEET doesn't bother 'em in the least.

[knowschad]

I picked one up, dropped that nasty bugger on our tarp, and it crinkled up like you lit a torch to it.

The first cache I went to, I came out of the woods with a tick on my jeans. The tick was dead. Like Mudfrog, I was a little concerned about a chemical that kills on contact. That is, you know, wearing it. But I've survived. So far, so good.

 

It's great to be able to cache anywhere without having to "check for ticks", and not discovering wayward ticks days later most anywhere (car, sofa at home, etc.). I'm a tick magnet. I'm definitely sold on Permethin. It doesn't get sprayed on you, it's a dry material in the cloth. It's so much better than DEET at clearing ticks, I'm pretty sure it will be banned. So I'm stocking up.

 

One problem with Permethrin is complacency. I never see a live tick anymore, so I'm tempted to go caching on a whim sometimes, in unPeremthrin clothes. Bad idea.

 

The other problem is cache placement. No issue at all for me. But I get plenty of logs about how bad the ticks are. Around here, there are many mammals carrying ticks around to the branches and brush.

We have deer and bear crossing our mowed yard regularly, and have had relatives pick up a tick once in a while just walking to the pool.

- We tell 'em to stay on the sidewalk. Maybe they were thinking of grass clippings

Now they know why I only wear treated clothes when out. Anywhere.

 

I agree, DEET isn't happening here anymore.

Multiple screen shields, fly lines, tent screens,(too long to list...) melts pretty-much anything plastic/rubber.

A neighbor we cache with complained once that her new GPSr buttons were worn.

Well yeah, we can smell all the DEET on ya.

Mowed (short) grass is seldom a problem. Ticks are genetically "programmed" to climb upward, and they love to climb up tall grass and wait for prey to walk by. You don't generally get ticks in the woods... you get them in the tall grass on the way to or from the woods. They don't drop down on you... they climb up on you.

 

Deet is a repellent. It works fairly well for mosquitoes... but it doesn't do much, if anything, for ticks. In my experience it is worthless for ticks.

[knowschad]

One problem with Permethrin is complacency. I never see a live tick anymore, so I'm tempted to go caching on a whim sometimes, in unPeremthrin clothes. Bad idea.

 

The other problem is cache placement. No issue at all for me. But I get plenty of logs about how bad the ticks are. Around here, there are many mammals carrying ticks around to the branches and brush.

Yep. I've learned the hard way that permethrin doesn't work so well when I just leave the can in the truck instead of actually spraying.

 

Some folks around here virtually stop caching in the woods for the summer. I've got some caches that have been out for months with only one or two finders.

 

I have always just sprayed clothes, boots, hat, pack and car seat just as I'm heading out. That professional treating idea looks interesting though...

 

Whoah!!!! Leave the can in the TRUCK?!? Noooo!!! If you're even thinking that leaving the can in the truck is the problem, you are doing it wrong. Clothing needs to be pre-treated, and dried, before you ever get in the truck. The can stays home. You don't treat as you are heading out, either. The stuff needs to dry first.

 

Before you use that professional treating link I posted, consider how many times a season you will actually launder the treated clothing vs. how long that clothing will really last. My personal estimate is that I will never, ever, ever, wash any of my clothing 70 times in its lifetime. Will you be washing them once a week? That would last almost a year and a half at that rate.

[+WarNinjas]

I have never used this and doubt I ever would but the only thing I would think is that the heat from the dryer might break down the chemical. If you were to use the dryer I would go with a low heat setting. And like said above some of the Permethrin might transfer to the next thing you dry so I wouldn't do any baby clothes or towels in the next dry cycle. I would probably run it hot afterwards to break down anything left in there with something you don't care about.

 

Permethrin is synthesized from the natural insecticide in marigolds. That by itself wouldn't be enough to give me warm fuzzies about it, but from what I've read, I'll take that risk over the risk of Lyme disease or other tick-born infections.

The thing is, permethrin is actually a toxin to ticks, not merely a repellant. I have put live ticks on a piece of fabric inside of a circle that I had soaked with a DEET-based repellant and had them totally ignore it and walk right through it. If they tried that with permetrin-treated clothing, they would be dead.

 

Wikipedia's entry on human toxicity of permethrin: https://en.wikipedia...#Human_exposure

 

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Have you known anybody that had a long-term case of Lyme? I have a friend that had an eye bulging out of its socket. I've known people that didn't go outdoors for years because of it... it hurt to move. It is some baaaad stuff. Suit yourself, of course, but know the risks. Long term effects of Lyme are well-known.

 

I had a girlfriend who got Lyme and it messed her up so bad she ended up (along with other problems) Killing herself. The pesticide is much better then Lyme disease for sure!

 

I have been doing pest and termite control for almost 17 years. I am in no way chemical shy but also have a bunch of exposure to it. That is the reason I don't really see myself wearing Perethrin soaked clothes. I am sure if you soak it in the stuff it would take more heat then a dryer to break it all down but was just trying to figure out what the OP might be worried about. For myself for tick control I spray my boots and outer pants with some deet spray before caching somewhere I think there might be ticks. If I know tick are there I might spray more of my clothes.

[knowschad]

I have never used this and doubt I ever would but the only thing I would think is that the heat from the dryer might break down the chemical. If you were to use the dryer I would go with a low heat setting. And like said above some of the Permethrin might transfer to the next thing you dry so I wouldn't do any baby clothes or towels in the next dry cycle. I would probably run it hot afterwards to break down anything left in there with something you don't care about.

 

Permethrin is synthesized from the natural insecticide in marigolds. That by itself wouldn't be enough to give me warm fuzzies about it, but from what I've read, I'll take that risk over the risk of Lyme disease or other tick-born infections.

The thing is, permethrin is actually a toxin to ticks, not merely a repellant. I have put live ticks on a piece of fabric inside of a circle that I had soaked with a DEET-based repellant and had them totally ignore it and walk right through it. If they tried that with permetrin-treated clothing, they would be dead.

 

Wikipedia's entry on human toxicity of permethrin: https://en.wikipedia...#Human_exposure

 

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Have you known anybody that had a long-term case of Lyme? I have a friend that had an eye bulging out of its socket. I've known people that didn't go outdoors for years because of it... it hurt to move. It is some baaaad stuff. Suit yourself, of course, but know the risks. Long term effects of Lyme are well-known.

 

I had a girlfriend who got Lyme and it messed her up so bad she ended up (along with other problems) Killing herself. The pesticide is much better then Lyme disease for sure!

 

I have been doing pest and termite control for almost 17 years. I am in no way chemical shy but also have a bunch of exposure to it. That is the reason I don't really see myself wearing Perethrin soaked clothes. I am sure if you soak it in the stuff it would take more heat then a dryer to break it all down but was just trying to figure out what the OP might be worried about. For myself for tick control I spray my boots and outer pants with some deet spray before caching somewhere I think there might be ticks. If I know tick are there I might spray more of my clothes.

 

Good point about boots. I also treat my boots with permethrin.

 

You had a girlfriend that ended her life, you believe in part to Lyme disease, yet you resist the only effective known deterrent? Deet simply does not slow those parasites down. You can't repel them... they aren't smart enough. DEET works by messing with your CO2 signals when it comes to mosquitoes, but ticks simply climb upwards. To the top of grass, to your chest. CO2 doesn't seem to have as much to do with it as gravity does.

 

The long term tests are in: Lyme: Extremely serious. Permethrin: Unknown.

 

Of course, you may never be bitten by a Lyme (or Rocky Mountain Fever or other tick-borne disease) bearing tick if you wear Permethrim-treated clothing every time you're in tick country. So it really is impossible to weigh the risks completely. But me... I'm gonna take my chances with the marigolds.

[+jellis]

I sprayed my pants a year ago and still no ticks. But didn't spray my shirt and found a tick on my sleeve.

 

Also if you love your cat do not use the product near them until they dry. It seems to only effect the nervous system in cats. And hear also to try not go in any water sources like rivers or lakes.

[knowschad]

I sprayed my pants a year ago and still no ticks. But didn't spray my shirt and found a tick on my sleeve.

 

Also if you love your cat do not use the product near them until they dry. It seems to only effect the nervous system in cats. And hear also to try not go in any water sources like rivers or lakes.

 

Yes!! Good points (about fish & cats). Apparently it affects cold-blooded animals more than warm-blooded, which probably is why it affects cats more than dogs.

[+hukilaulau]

 

Whoah!!!! Leave the can in the TRUCK?!? Noooo!!! If you're even thinking that leaving the can in the truck is the problem, you are doing it wrong. Clothing needs to be pre-treated, and dried, before you ever get in the truck. The can stays home. You don't treat as you are heading out, either. The stuff needs to dry first.

 

Well, all I can tell you is, I DO spray when I get out of the truck just before heading into the woods.

I don't think I've ever seen a tick on me when I do that, and I cache in an area where ticks seem to be waiting on every blade of grass...

[+kunarion]

 

Whoah!!!! Leave the can in the TRUCK?!? Noooo!!! If you're even thinking that leaving the can in the truck is the problem, you are doing it wrong. Clothing needs to be pre-treated, and dried, before you ever get in the truck. The can stays home. You don't treat as you are heading out, either. The stuff needs to dry first.

 

Well, all I can tell you is, I DO spray when I get out of the truck just before heading into the woods.

I don't think I've ever seen a tick on me when I do that, and I cache in an area where ticks seem to be waiting on every blade of grass...

There are warnings to never spray clothing while it is being worn. Permethrin is a serious poison, so be sure to heed the instructions. But it is a lot of fun to see a tick die on the clothes.

 

Permethrin (Sawyers Spray) has a liquid carrier that smells like spray paint. It's dangerous (at least to insects, fish, and cats) in fluid form, but once the carrier dries, all that remains is poison in a wax embedded in the clothing fibers. A vapor, I guess.

 

The wet spray will cause issues for many people (burning eyes, burning skin, and don't inhale the mist). But if you've tried it and it's not bothering you, I won't try to talk you out of that. It's likely most potent at the time it's applied. Just don't get it banned because of spraying it on yourself . Permethrin is the only reason I can cache in the summer!

Edited July 11, 2015 by kunarion

[knowschad]

Whoah!!!! Leave the can in the TRUCK?!? Noooo!!! If you're even thinking that leaving the can in the truck is the problem, you are doing it wrong. Clothing needs to be pre-treated, and dried, before you ever get in the truck. The can stays home. You don't treat as you are heading out, either. The stuff needs to dry first.

 

Well, all I can tell you is, I DO spray when I get out of the truck just before heading into the woods.

I don't think I've ever seen a tick on me when I do that, and I cache in an area where ticks seem to be waiting on every blade of grass...

I didn't say that using it wet wouldn't work against ticks. I'm more concerned with what it is doing to you. I would strongly encourage you to read and follow the instructions.

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Here is some info that might change your mind a bit.

 

permathrin and the military

Sounds to me a LOT safer that playing Russian roulette with Lyme disease!

[knowschad]

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Here is some info that might change your mind a bit.

 

permathrin and the military

Sounds to me a LOT safer that playing Russian roulette with Lyme disease!

 

From the folks that brought you...

 

AGENT ORANGE!!

 

[knowschad]

Soaking in Permethrin. The cow is next.

 

[+Mudfrog]

 

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Here is some info that might change your mind a bit.

 

permathrin and the military

Sounds to me a LOT safer that playing Russian roulette with Lyme disease!

 

Didn't click the link but it doesn't matter. I've played in the woods all my life and i'm not going to change my ways. Sure, lyme disease is something to think about but there are a whole lot of other things that come with being out in the wild that can be more dangerous. Honestly, i know too many people that have some form of cancer and there's no doubt in my mind that products like these contribute to these diseases. Again, i'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

People are trying to say that this stuff is safe yet we have these replies in this very thread.

 

I didn't say that using it wet wouldn't work against ticks. I'm more concerned with what it is doing to you. I would strongly encourage you to read and follow the instructions.

 

OK, wet is bad. The way i see it, if the dry is killing ticks, then it's gotta be absorbing into and/or interacting with your body as well.

 

Also if you love your cat do not use the product near them until they dry. It seems to only effect the nervous system in cats. And hear also to try not go in any water sources like rivers or lakes.

 

Not every time but,,, there are times when i do enter water when i'm out in the woods. Oh well, sorry about that fish.

[knowschad]

I'm just not keen on putting stuff like this on me. I have no idea what long term effects permethrin might have and i'm fairly certain no one else does either. I'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

We just got back from an Arkansas trip where we hiked trails in some of the state parks. Needless to say, ticks, red bugs, and poison ivy were everywhere. Picked up plenty of ticks, have a teensy bit of itching from the red bugs, and so far, haven't had the pi break out. I figure this is just part of the overall experience.

 

Here is some info that might change your mind a bit.

 

permathrin and the military

Sounds to me a LOT safer that playing Russian roulette with Lyme disease!

 

Didn't click the link but it doesn't matter. I've played in the woods all my life and i'm not going to change my ways. Sure, lyme disease is something to think about but there are a whole lot of other things that come with being out in the wild that can be more dangerous. Honestly, i know too many people that have some form of cancer and there's no doubt in my mind that products like these contribute to these diseases. Again, i'll take my chances with the ticks.

 

Assuming that you grew up in Texas where you apparently now live, Lyme hasn't been a problem there for all of your life.

 

 

According to Texas A&M University’s Lyme Lab, LD is a zoonotic, tick-borne illness caused by the spirochetal bacterium Borrelia burgdorferi, and it is the most prevalent arthropod-borne infection in the United States, with a total of 22,572 human cases of Lyme disease reported to the CDC in 2010. Dogs, cats, horses, and cattle can also suffer from LD. Infected tick vectors transmit the LD causative agent while biting humans and susceptible domestic animal species.

 

The Lab notes that a significant increase in the number of reported cases has been observed in the past few years, classifying Lyme disease as a re-emerging infection. Lyme borreliosis is, therefore, an important public health issue, particularly in endemic areas where it contributes to significant rates of morbidity. Lyme disease occurs as a multi-systemic disorder leading to carditis (10% of untreated adults), arthritis (60% of the cases) and other neurological symptoms. Moreover, there are few therapeutic solutions for Lyme disease patients and there are no effective vaccines available on the market.

 

A recent study conducted by an international research team from seven U.S. and Mexican universities and institutions has confirmed that risk for Lyme Disease is significant in the state of Texas and northern parts of Mexico, and determined that the tick-borne bacterial infectious agent that causes LD is now endemic to the Texas/Mexico border region and likely to remain so, with a higher probability of occurrence along the Gulf Coast.

 

 

https://www.utexas.edu/pharmacy/news/di_13lyme.html

Lyme disease, the most common tick-borne disease in the United States, has become increasingly prevalent in Texas in recent years. While over 20,000 cases are reported yearly in the U.S. and the disease predominantly occurs in the northeast, 216 cases were documented by the Texas Department of State Health Services in 2010-11. It is speculated that Lyme disease is underreported in Texas as many cases are misdiagnosed due to health care provider unfamiliarity with the clinical presentation

 

I don't think that anybody is saying that it is 100% safe. One thing that *I* was saying though, is that it is important to follow the instructions.

 

However, I'm sure we're not going to change your mind. You apparently are stuck on the notion that any chemical that you don't understand is a cancer risk. And I'm sure there is some wisdom in that sort of thinking. And the incidents of Lyme in Texas a much lower than in some other parts of the country. So... good luck! To my mind, though, it is akin to having unsafe sex because you're afraid of condoms.

 

 

[+hukilaulau]

Whoah!!!! Leave the can in the TRUCK?!? Noooo!!! If you're even thinking that leaving the can in the truck is the problem, you are doing it wrong. Clothing needs to be pre-treated, and dried, before you ever get in the truck. The can stays home. You don't treat as you are heading out, either. The stuff needs to dry first.

 

Well, all I can tell you is, I DO spray when I get out of the truck just before heading into the woods.

I don't think I've ever seen a tick on me when I do that, and I cache in an area where ticks seem to be waiting on every blade of grass...

I didn't say that using it wet wouldn't work against ticks. I'm more concerned with what it is doing to you. I would strongly encourage you to read and follow the instructions.

OK, I did go and read all the instructions and research and discovered that, yes, I was doing it wrong. Thanks for the headsup.

I was kind of surprised, though, that everything I've read indicates that results of exposure or skin contact are not really that terrible. Not saying it's OK, just that if it were between risking some incidental skin contact or even inhalation and being unprotected, I'd still choose spraying.

[+Touchstone]

Actually the National Pesticide Information Center makes it sound like you have to try pretty hard to actually have even mild side effects. Permethrin is in quite a few products, including those to treat lice and scabies, so direct skin contact doesn't seem to be the issue. I suspect it probably works longer if it's dried on clothing rather than applying it fresh each time you go out. Brushing up against stuff probably wears it off quicker if it's put on wet, without drying.

 

The CDC has written up a fairly alarming page on the use (and misuse) of DEET , with a long history of various side effects. It's a wonder I've survived this long!

[knowschad]

Actually the National Pesticide Information Center makes it sound like you have to try pretty hard to actually have even mild side effects. Permethrin is in quite a few products, including those to treat lice and scabies, so direct skin contact doesn't seem to be the issue. I suspect it probably works longer if it's dried on clothing rather than applying it fresh each time you go out. Brushing up against stuff probably wears it off quicker if it's put on wet, without drying.

 

The CDC has written up a fairly alarming page on the use (and misuse) of DEET , with a long history of various side effects. It's a wonder I've survived this long!

 

I understand that you are only comparing the toxicity between DEET and permethrin, but I really don't even like to see them compared in that sense, because so many people already fail to understand that they are not even in the same class. Too many think that permethrin is simply an alternate repellant, which is far from the truth (although apparently permethrin will sometimes repel the insects... at least mosquitoes). But that isn't its primary strength and it isn't simply a matter of using one or the other.

[+Mudfrog]

I don't think that anybody is saying that it is 100% safe. One thing that *I* was saying though, is that it is important to follow the instructions.

 

However, I'm sure we're not going to change your mind. You apparently are stuck on the notion that any chemical that you don't understand is a cancer risk. And I'm sure there is some wisdom in that sort of thinking. And the incidents of Lyme in Texas a much lower than in some other parts of the country. So... good luck! To my mind, though, it is akin to having unsafe sex because you're afraid of condoms.

 

And that may be some of why my thinking is the way it is. We don't hear of lyme disease as much down here. I might think differently if i lived in an area where it was more prevalent. It is true that i do think about most all chemicals when used around me. I'm glad we have them since many of them better our lives. But i do still weigh the pros and cons when it comes to using them.

 

When talking about bugspray (no DEET) for instance,, what's worse, fighting off thousands of mosquitos with increased odds of contracting something bad, or using bugspray? Not my first choice but i'll certainly use the spray if the situation warrants it.

[+cerberus1]

Lately I've been using lemon/eucalyptus, by both Cutter and Repel, sparingly on my face & neck and don't have problems with skeeters.

Real dense gnat/black fly areas, I wear a permethrin-treated head net.

- Or it's a perfect time for a Macanudo.

Haven't used that greasy DEET in years.

[knowschad]

I don't think that anybody is saying that it is 100% safe. One thing that *I* was saying though, is that it is important to follow the instructions.

 

However, I'm sure we're not going to change your mind. You apparently are stuck on the notion that any chemical that you don't understand is a cancer risk. And I'm sure there is some wisdom in that sort of thinking. And the incidents of Lyme in Texas a much lower than in some other parts of the country. So... good luck! To my mind, though, it is akin to having unsafe sex because you're afraid of condoms.

 

And that may be some of why my thinking is the way it is. We don't hear of lyme disease as much down here. I might think differently if i lived in an area where it was more prevalent. It is true that i do think about most all chemicals when used around me. I'm glad we have them since many of them better our lives. But i do still weigh the pros and cons when it comes to using them.

 

When talking about bugspray (no DEET) for instance,, what's worse, fighting off thousands of mosquitos with increased odds of contracting something bad, or using bugspray? Not my first choice but i'll certainly use the spray if the situation warrants it.

 

For what its worth, I don't generally bother with mosquito repellent, even here in Minnesota. Mosquitoes are, for me, mostly an annoyance (yes, there is West Nile Fever and meningitis, but those are rare). But ticks are another story for me.

 

I don't know how prevalent ticks are in your part of Texas, but Lyme is only one of a number of troubles they can bring into your life. Rocky Mountain Fever is one of several.

[+Mn-treker]

I once read a story about a bike rider who was gradually getting naked as he rode his bike.

True story, He was wearing spandex clothing while riding that bike.

He also had sprayed himself with Deet. It was found that Deet disolves spandex.

 

Permithrin goes on the clothes and not skin due to the nureo toxin effect.

I have sprayed it on my dog aftrer going geocaching, because I forgot to use it before.

For the next day I counted 12 dead ticks fall off of him. I left him like that for a week

then bathed him. To this day, one and half month later he has not had any ticks.

Also no ill effects. I also use Frontline on him, which also contains permithrin.

Deet is almost worthless, it wont stop Deer flies.

But now is the time of Tick sleep, my nick name for it. I find that Tick activity is ZERO

from mid July to mid October or mabe end of September. At least in my area and other parts of Minnesota.

I just came back from the arrowhead area of our state and used no Deet or Permithrin.

I went deep into the woods and grass, no ticks at all. This has been my experience for many years here.

When I expect Ticks I spray my stuff, boots too with permithrin. I have seen ticks try to go right thrthrough my jeans due to confussion to get me but soon die. Yes spray the seats and floor of your car.

I have found many dead Ticks on my truck floors.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Mn-treker

[+kunarion]

Deet is almost worthless, it wont stop Deer flies.

Nothing stops deer flies, except maybe a head net. Those flies are vicious. They're fortunately rare around metro Atlanta.

 

But now is the time of Tick sleep, my nick name for it. I find that Tick activity is ZERO

from mid July to mid October or mabe end of September. At least in my area and other parts of Minnesota.

Good to know. I wonder what causes that?

Edited July 14, 2015 by kunarion

[knowschad]

Deet is almost worthless, it wont stop Deer flies.

Nothing stops deer flies, except maybe a head net. Those flies are vicious. They're fortunately rare around metro Atlanta.

A 2 lb. hammer seems to work well, but be careful if they land in your hair.

 

But now is the time of Tick sleep, my nick name for it. I find that Tick activity is ZERO

from mid July to mid October or mabe end of September. At least in my area and other parts of Minnesota.

Good to know. I wonder what causes that?

Too hot for people to go outdoors, maybe?

[+wmpastor]

Those who avoid the chemicals should be extremely alert to early symptoms of Lyme Disease. There are almost always some early symptoms, and it is easily and effectively treated in the early stages.

 

A test for Lyme Disease is also a possibility - maybe annually for an active outdoor person who avoids permethrin & deet.

[+Mn-treker]

Deet is almost worthless, it wont stop Deer flies.

Nothing stops deer flies, except maybe a head net. Those flies are vicious. They're fortunately rare around metro Atlanta.

A 2 lb. hammer seems to work well, but be careful if they land in your hair.

 

But now is the time of Tick sleep, my nick name for it. I find that Tick activity is ZERO

from mid July to mid October or mabe end of September. At least in my area and other parts of Minnesota.

Good to know. I wonder what causes that?

Too hot for people to go outdoors, maybe?

I like that 2lb hammer idea. What causes the Tick activity to go down that much?

My guess is that they have laid their eggs and the adults die or have gotten eaten.

One time in a WMA in the town of Bethel, MN in mid October I saw what looked like a bunch of ants crawling on the ground.

It was not ants, it was thousands of wood ticks, a new hatch.

[knowschad]

Those who avoid the chemicals should be extremely alert to early symptoms of Lyme Disease. There are almost always some early symptoms, and it is easily and effectively treated in the early stages.

 

A test for Lyme Disease is also a possibility - maybe annually for an active outdoor person who avoids permethrin & deet.

 

Often, the people do get the early symptoms, but wait to see if they will go away... which they will. Before they come back with a vengence!

 

And if you DO contract Lyme, the treatment involves being injected with chemicals.

[knowschad]

I like that 2lb hammer idea. What causes the Tick activity to go down that much?

My guess is that they have laid their eggs and the adults die or have gotten eaten.

One time in a WMA in the town of Bethel, MN in mid October I saw what looked like a bunch of ants crawling on the ground.

It was not ants, it was thousands of wood ticks, a new hatch.

 

I walked through a newly hatched nest of ticks once, years ago. They were barely visible, and crawling all over me! Ewwww!! I "felt" them on me for weeks after that!

 

According to this, the ticks are there in the summertime, but we don't see them because they are just tiny nymphs: http://lymediseasecentralmass.com/think-there-might-be-fewer-ticks-in-the-summer-maybe-we-just-dont-see-them/

 

Incidentally, one potential method of tick control is to put balls of permethrin-treated cotton out in the areas that have populations of the white-footed mouse that host deer ticks.