Stealth required - a disturbing trend

19k · June 20, 2015

In urban settings, I find the more "stealthy" I try to be the more suspicious I look. So I go into urban settings like I own the place, get in, find the cache, get out. Don't care who's watching. If I get spotted and the cache gets compromised, well then that's the cost of doing business for the hider. Sounds harsh but I've yet to see an urban cache disappear following MY visit.

What ^^^ he ^^^ said. I don't do costumes, vests, hard hats, none of that. I (and the wife) just go for it. If you look like you're worried about someone seeing you, they will. Just act normal, like you belong there and know what you're doing. I get asked more about what I'm up to by the nearby ranchers along rural back roads than I ever do in towns and parks.

Agreed. Maybe it's a great opportunity to introduce muggles to geocaching. I've done it a couple times. Each time, the locals already knew about the cache and just said "You're close. Just keep looking."

Add my name to the list, whoever is the keeper of the list.

19k · June 20, 2015

The only time it bothers me is when there is something in the description about looking out for people watching through their windows. I'm not going to look in people's windows to see if they happen to be watching. I mostly cache in an urban area and I realize there will be people around most of the time.

I had a woman watching me through her kitchen window as I filled a fence pipe with water to float a cache out. I knew she was watching, and even smiled and waved at her. Got home and received an email from a geocaching friend that is on the police department in that town asking me if it was me. I had no clue that she was going to call the cops, but glad that TheBaldEagle was the one to get the call!

19k · June 20, 2015

but the CO did an excellent job of describing where to sit, almost to the point of being letter-box like

I hid a cache with similar directions a number of years ago. It was in an often very busy disc golf area. I cautioned about stealth, and instructed the cachers to sit on the hollow log that was on the ground, and very carefully, reach their hand in the end of the log to grab the cache without being spotted. What I neglected to tell them was that the container was a jar covered in fake fur! :lol:

It was before the days of Favorite points, but got a lot of good comments (and no negative ones)

June 22, 2015

What I neglected to tell them was that the container was a jar covered in fake fur!

Ha, that's pretty great! :lol:

June 22, 2015

Isn't there an old adage about the best place to hide a tree being in a forest?

I've enjoyed stealth caches in crowded places - because in crowded places people seem to pay less attention to any single individual and it's quite fun to sneak in, find, sign and replace the cache in full view of everyone passing by.

On the other hand, a cache outside the large windows of a row of houses on a quiet residential street with a Stealth Required attribute on it turns me right off - ............- and you're a rabbit caught in the headlights.

IMO not all stealth caches are created equal.

I agree. If the stealthy cache has me out alone in full view, I don't bother. If it is at a busy spot and I can do my search without looking too stupid (i.e on my hands and knees under a bench on a busy street in new York)then I think it is great. I refuse to look for caches that are somehow hidden on the front of a building at a strip mall.

We have a stealthy cache at a tourist spot. Lots of finds and favorites

http://coord.info/GC17V2B

.

June 22, 2015

Don't care who's watching. If I get spotted and the cache gets compromised, well then that's the cost of doing business for the hider.

There's a small group of enthusiasts in my city who work hard to place and maintain caches.

95% smileys from city guests are for caches located in the centre, usually in very muggled areas. We don't expect our foreign colleagues to search for caches at 4am on Saturday morning when not a single living soul is around.

We've got enormous number of policemen in our city who aren't always sweet. No one knows about geocaching. We also have an anonymous idiot who does his best to steal caches. Maintaining all this stuff isn't easy.

What I mean by adding a "Stealth" attribute to my listing? Just "Please mind that muggles are usually nearby. Be careful".

Sorry, but the attitude quoted above - "I don't care, it's the cost of doing business for the hider" - sounds highly disrespectful to me.

7.8k · June 22, 2015

Sorry, but the attitude quoted above - "I don't care, it's the cost of doing business for the hider" - sounds highly disrespectful to me.

While I do agree that the specific wording is a bit harsh, I do somewhat agree with the idea. Hiders of caches in high-muggle areas need to understand that doing so is implicitly increasing the risk that their cache will be muggled. I won't knowingly or intentionally put a cache at risk while finding it, but sometimes the best laid plans just don't work out and you get spotted or confronted by a muggle. That's the risk you run by hiding a cache in a high-muggle area.

June 23, 2015

I've had people question me about what I was doing and I explain it to them. One time I found a cache and a muggle went over, looked at the cache saw the sticker and left.

3.6k · June 23, 2015

Don't care who's watching. If I get spotted and the cache gets compromised, well then that's the cost of doing business for the hider.

There's a small group of enthusiasts in my city who work hard to place and maintain caches.

95% smileys from city guests are for caches located in the centre, usually in very muggled areas. We don't expect our foreign colleagues to search for caches at 4am on Saturday morning when not a single living soul is around.

We've got enormous number of policemen in our city who aren't always sweet. No one knows about geocaching. We also have an anonymous idiot who does his best to steal caches. Maintaining all this stuff isn't easy.

What I mean by adding a "Stealth" attribute to my listing? Just "Please mind that muggles are usually nearby. Be careful".

Sorry, but the attitude quoted above - "I don't care, it's the cost of doing business for the hider" - sounds highly disrespectful to me.

Really, its the bold truth of being a CO of high muggle caches. I didnt placed it there and you did and its YOUR problem and not ours. If you want us wait for a non muggle day or hours to find the cache, that is not going to happen! You placed it for us to find and you cant tell us how we can find it. I am not trying to be rude or anything here. Its just the bold truth about high muggle caches. If you dont want your caches go missing, stop placing them in stupid places. I take extra care finding caches in non muggle area but once I hit a high muggle area, I am bold and aim straight to it. You are giving me the challenge to find it and I am going to do it!

If I try to be stealth, I look really bad and it really get people attention! Especially when I am caching alone and being a male does work against me! Park area are the worse for a male thats caching alone. :blink:

I got caches in high muggle area and I know it can go missing and to me, thats the cost of placing them there. I got a number of rest stop caches and most cachers arent going to be sheath about it because they are in a hurry to hit the road again.

3.6k · June 23, 2015

I've had people question me about what I was doing and I explain it to them. One time I found a cache and a muggle went over, looked at the cache saw the sticker and left.

Really, it isnt their business. Some people are just pain nosy or worse, busybodies.

I was doing a powertrail in Texas and yep, someone saw me and decide to follow me from a distance for 45 mins or so and I got tired of it and stop caching and went looking for him and found him a mile away waiting on me! I told him what I was doing and he left me alone! :blink: Yes, I felt like he was stalking me! This was out in the middle of nowhere! :lol: Also, this was in summer and it was 105F that day!! :lol: There is nothing stealth of doing a powertrail in the heat like that. :blink: That day, the oil truckers was honking their horns at me. They seem to know where I was. All of them was waving at me! I am sure they were talking about me over the radio. :lol:

June 23, 2015

I've had people question me about what I was doing and I explain it to them. One time I found a cache and a muggle went over, looked at the cache saw the sticker and left.

Really, it isnt their business. Some people are just pain nosy or worse, busybodies.

I was doing a powertrail in Texas and yep, someone saw me and decide to follow me from a distance for 45 mins or so and I got tired of it and stop caching and went looking for him and found him a mile away waiting on me! I told him what I was doing and he left me alone! Yes, I felt like he was stalking me! This was out in the middle of nowhere! Also, this was in summer and it was 105F that day!! There is nothing stealth of doing a powertrail in the heat like that. That day, the oil truckers was honking their horns at me. They seem to know where I was. All of them was waving at me! I am sure they were talking about me over the radio.

Its really all about the person I have cousins who spend a lot of time 4 wheeling and they told me they found caches and put them back. They told me they just put it back where they found it. Mainly if teenagers find a cache they will mess with it but normally people who are older and know how to mind their own business don't mess with it.

June 23, 2015

The A-Team, thank you for explaining me basic things ("need to understand", "that's the risk you run")

Being a cache owner in Moscow city, I don't place caches in high-muggle areas because I just want to increase risks. Neither I do it because I love maintaining caches each weekend. And no, this is done not for creating yet another theme on this forum. If I place a cache in a high-muggled area it's done for you. Yes, for a cacher who comes to Moscow for vacations and has only three days to walk in the very heart of the city... oh, these are the most muggled areas in Moscow, aren't they? Somewhere not far from Kremlin walls nearby the most known places of interest. And let these caches be simple, no d=4 or 5 so people could be happy with at least several finds in their really limited time. And let their descriptions being translated into English, not in Russian language only. And hints too.

I fully understand risks you're talking about and I volunteer to take them (and more) for good cachers to be able to play the game here. I don't expect nice logs or favourite marks or cache maintenance or cool stuff in my containers. The only little thing I really hope to get is some level of respect. Typically it can be reached at a very small cost. And the stealth attribute is just a reminder.

Let me give you an example. Once I accompanied a group of tourists (geocachers) from some foreign country who wanted to find one of my simple city caches in the very heart of Moscow. I was standing nearby watching them. They arose great noise. They argued loudly about where the cache could be. They walked directly to places where they expected the cache to be and examined them without paying any attention to muggles. A couple on a bench stopped talking and watched the group of foreigners doing something really strange. A waiter left his job in a nearby cafe, lit his cigarette and stared at the group suspiciously. Everyone's got involved. Effective searches could be done without all that noise. Having an impressive number of 4,677 finds you should know how to achieve this.

SwineFlew, I failed to comment what you said because I couldn't see much behind your numerous "I", sorry

4.6k · June 23, 2015

Really, it isnt their business. Some people are just pain nosy or worse, busybodies.

I dread to think how muggles, being on the receiving end of this sort of attitude, would view geocachers in general :unsure:

In fact I don't have to imagine it at all - I've seen a mass archive arise from it in my local area.

7.4k · June 23, 2015

If you place a cache in a busy public place without permission where the police don't know about geocaching, it's going to go missing or otherwise run into problems once in a while. Blame the finders if that makes you feel better about it, but it is the reality of geocaching. Maybe finders are clumsy, dumb, or just don't care, but regardless, these are highly predictable issues that cache owners must learn to cope with. Sometimes, it's just a bad place to put a cache.

3.8k · June 23, 2015

The A-Team, thank you for explaining me basic things ("need to understand", "that's the risk you run")

Being a cache owner in Moscow city, I don't place caches in high-muggle areas because I just want to increase risks. Neither I do it because I love maintaining caches each weekend. And no, this is done not for creating yet another theme on this forum. If I place a cache in a high-muggled area it's done for you. Yes, for a cacher who comes to Moscow for vacations and has only three days to walk in the very heart of the city... oh, these are the most muggled areas in Moscow, aren't they? Somewhere not far from Kremlin walls nearby the most known places of interest. And let these caches be simple, no d=4 or 5 so people could be happy with at least several finds in their really limited time. And let their descriptions being translated into English, not in Russian language only. And hints too.

I fully understand risks you're talking about and I volunteer to take them (and more) for good cachers to be able to play the game here. I don't expect nice logs or favourite marks or cache maintenance or cool stuff in my containers. The only little thing I really hope to get is some level of respect. Typically it can be reached at a very small cost. And the stealth attribute is just a reminder.

Let me give you an example. Once I accompanied a group of tourists (geocachers) from some foreign country who wanted to find one of my simple city caches in the very heart of Moscow. I was standing nearby watching them. They arose great noise. They argued loudly about where the cache could be. They walked directly to places where they expected the cache to be and examined them without paying any attention to muggles. A couple on a bench stopped talking and watched the group of foreigners doing something really strange. A waiter left his job in a nearby cafe, lit his cigarette and stared at the group suspiciously. Everyone's got involved. Effective searches could be done without all that noise. Having an impressive number of 4,677 finds you should know how to achieve this.

SwineFlew, I failed to comment what you said because I couldn't see much behind your numerous "I", sorry

Does that mean you'll respect me in the morning now?

June 24, 2015

Does that mean you'll respect me in the morning now?

Sorry, I didn't understand your question.

3.8k · June 24, 2015

Does that mean you'll respect me in the morning now?

Sorry, I didn't understand your question.

It was a bad attempt at humor. Nevermind.

2.8k · June 24, 2015

If I try to be stealth, I look really bad and it really get people attention! Especially when I am caching alone and being a male does work against me! Park area are the worse for a male thats caching alone.

Agreed. If I do a lamp post cache, I don't try to be "covert". I go up to the lamp post, lift the skirt and grab the cache. I try to look like I belong there, vice try to be sneaky.

3.6k · June 24, 2015

The A-Team, thank you for explaining me basic things ("need to understand", "that's the risk you run")

Being a cache owner in Moscow city, I don't place caches in high-muggle areas because I just want to increase risks. Neither I do it because I love maintaining caches each weekend. And no, this is done not for creating yet another theme on this forum. If I place a cache in a high-muggled area it's done for you. Yes, for a cacher who comes to Moscow for vacations and has only three days to walk in the very heart of the city... oh, these are the most muggled areas in Moscow, aren't they? Somewhere not far from Kremlin walls nearby the most known places of interest. And let these caches be simple, no d=4 or 5 so people could be happy with at least several finds in their really limited time. And let their descriptions being translated into English, not in Russian language only. And hints too.

I fully understand risks you're talking about and I volunteer to take them (and more) for good cachers to be able to play the game here. I don't expect nice logs or favourite marks or cache maintenance or cool stuff in my containers. The only little thing I really hope to get is some level of respect. Typically it can be reached at a very small cost. And the stealth attribute is just a reminder.

Let me give you an example. Once I accompanied a group of tourists (geocachers) from some foreign country who wanted to find one of my simple city caches in the very heart of Moscow. I was standing nearby watching them. They arose great noise. They argued loudly about where the cache could be. They walked directly to places where they expected the cache to be and examined them without paying any attention to muggles. A couple on a bench stopped talking and watched the group of foreigners doing something really strange. A waiter left his job in a nearby cafe, lit his cigarette and stared at the group suspiciously. Everyone's got involved. Effective searches could be done without all that noise. Having an impressive number of 4,677 finds you should know how to achieve this.

SwineFlew, I failed to comment what you said because I couldn't see much behind your numerous "I", sorry

I see a problem...but how would you feel if geowoodstock or any super big events is close to one of your caches? I promise you, there will be people there all day long for three or four days. Nothing stealth about it. I found a good chuck of caches around geowoodstock and I even saw neighbors running over to GZ to see whats going on!!! Bunch of those caches are....guess it... yep... MISSING! Is it really our fault? No...the CO knows geowoodstock was coming and he/she should archived it before we rolled into town.

Here is a event that does causes problem for stealth required caches. This group does it often and I am talking about 100ish or so cachers on a route to find a good chuck of caches in a given area. Does it causes problems? oh yes...the stealth required is blown out the front door again. Just about every time they do this event...they run into problems with the neighbors. One year, they run into trouble with Ikea! :blink: Yes... permission wasnt in place...but that was the starting point of the Cache Machine. DOH...thats going to raise some eyebrows!

June 24, 2015

but how would you feel if geowoodstock or any super big events is close to one of your caches?

This won't happen.

See, it's good to see the opposite side sometimes.

3.6k · June 24, 2015

but how would you feel if geowoodstock or any super big events is close to one of your caches?

This won't happen.

See, it's good to see the opposite side sometimes.

You are lucky...but having a large tourist group at one of your caches in a country that dont have many caches is problemsome. :blink: Its best to have one person hunting and finding the cache and sign for the whole group. Thats being more sheath than to have the whole group right there.

15.3k · June 24, 2015

I see a problem...but how would you feel if geowoodstock or any super big events is close to one of your caches?

Folks are planning a mega-event in the area. If the traffic would be a problem for my geocache(s), then I'll temporarily disable it/them a week or two before the event.

3.6k · June 24, 2015

I see a problem...but how would you feel if geowoodstock or any super big events is close to one of your caches?
Folks are planning a mega-event in the area. If the traffic would be a problem for my geocache(s), then I'll temporarily disable it/them a week or two before the event.

Your method isnt foolproof. One time I forgot to remove all the archived caches from my gsak around st Charles last year and I found a bunch and so did a few others.

3.6k · June 26, 2015

Sometimes in crowded places people don't even notice you. But sometimes people do notice suspicious activity which is a bad thing. What I hate worse are caches right in front of the windows of places to eat like fast food places. You have captive audiences watching you and get curious later to find out what you were doing looking under a lampskirt. Recently I was going to go for one and again it would be in a lampskirt but next to a very busy drive thru. Non stop vehicle traffic. I gave up and left. Sometimes I get so frustrated I just do it and if it turns up missing then hey don't hide them this way believing you have a good evil cache hide.

2.1k · July 2, 2015

...Hiders of caches in high-muggle areas need to understand that doing so is implicitly increasing the risk that their cache will be muggled. I won't knowingly or intentionally put a cache at risk while finding it, but sometimes the best laid plans just don't work out and you get spotted or confronted by a muggle. That's the risk you run by hiding a cache in a high-muggle area.

I agree totally and practice this myself.

I would add that I might not be willing to abandon my search for a cache simply because muggles are about. Please, cache owners, don't expect me to walk away because you chose to hide a cache in a high traffic area. I will do all I can to protect your cache but I will most likey not stop my search because you chose a vulnerable area. I have some tricks for stealthy searching and will use them but there are no guarantees that I won't be seen.

July 2, 2015

"they need to understand", "cache owners, don't expect me"

July 5, 2015

I know there are some locations, it also depends on the time. There is a walking trail near my house (I will hide a geocache there in the future). Sometimes, the walking trail is crowded as can be. Other times, it looks like a ghost town.

May 28, 2016

Wouldn't some cachers go and find your cache? Maybe a cache that's at the event, spots the cacher and tags along? There is many, many pro's...

Stealth required - a disturbing trend

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