Agenda Literature Placed in Caches by Finders

[+LaughterOnWater]

It's an honest question, and I still think it deserves mature consideration.

At Keystone's suggestion, I'm resubmitting this question from last week's closed thread.

 

Apologies before-hand...

If this subject bothers you or you feel my question is impertinent because I'm too new to this venue, please ignore this thread.

Otherwise, please read on.

 

Agenda-based caches are banned. I think that's a good thing. But if CO's are not allowed to create an agenda-based cache, why should cache finders be allowed to do distribute their agenda-based materials in any CO's cache? Why should CO's put up with that? Isn't it just geocache spam?

 

I am sure that no less than two individuals have been making it at least their avocation if not their business to populate as many local caches in my area as possible with their agenda literature. It's probably not against the rules, but is it cricket?

 

One suggestion had been to trade even or trade up. How do I swap even or up for agenda literature? Do I place my own, better, slicker, nicer spam? Should I come up with a pamphlet that has a puzzle on it that, when completed essentially says, "By My Product" or "Drink More Ovaltine" and just swap those for every agenda-based pamphlet or business card I find? Many urban caches are small enough as it is, and are still crammed with spamphlets or business cards. And I like the idea of spending time and dollars editing, printing and managing local a "counter-agenda" literature program, periodically revisiting each cache for that purpose even less than agenda literature itself. It's just one finger in a very leaky dam.

 

Others will say "Food and pills are banned, yet you'll find them." and "Bullets are banned, yet you'll find them." And I have. But they're not as widespread as agenda literature, probably because they are banned.

 

It also makes me wonder about cache management. Are there rules that prohibit CO's from removing agenda materials from their own caches, or is it considered rude to do so? Could the cache owner specify in small print at the bottom of the cache description that all agenda literature will be removed, and that if cachers find agenda materials during their foray, please remove them from this CO's cache?

 

Leaving things as they are is one alternative, but as I said before, status quo quickly devolves into status senes.

As a new cacher, it's the first thing that struck me as odd about geocaching.

Has it always been this way, or has it just sort of grown this way over the years?

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

 

Chris

[+fizzymagic]

If this subject bothers you or you feel my question is impertinent because I'm too new to this venue, please ignore this thread.

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

 

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

[+ArtieD]

People are allowed to leave whatever they wish as far as swag, as long as it doesn't violate the generally-accepted ideals of improper swag. From the "hiding your geocache" page here: (link).

 

"People of all ages hide and seek caches, so think carefully before placing an item into a cache. Explosives, ammunition, knives, drugs and alcohol should not be placed in a cache. Respect the local laws.

 

Food items are always a bad idea. Animals have better noses than humans, and in some cases caches have been chewed through and destroyed because of food items in a cache. Please do not put food in a cache."

 

There is nothing about literature, cards or anything like that. If you feel THAT strongly about it, specify it on your own cache that you'd prefer people don't put that in your cache. Otherwise, it's up to other cache owners to decide if they want it or not.

[+ArtieD]

If this subject bothers you or you feel my question is impertinent because I'm too new to this venue, please ignore this thread.

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

 

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

 

What are we up to...14 or 15 new topics that have been discussed one way or another before?

[+Walts Hunting]

I believe whining about cache content is supposed to be the third thursday of the month.

[+ArtieD]

[knowschad]

If this subject bothers you or you feel my question is impertinent because I'm too new to this venue, please ignore this thread.

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

 

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

 

What are we up to...14 or 15 new topics that have been discussed one way or another before?

 

We are not UseNet running on 80MB harddrives anymore. Groundspeak has plenty of space for new threads. So what if a topic gets discussed again? Not everybody here is a regular, you know. People get dissed for bumping old threads, and then they get dissed for not.

[+cheech gang]

There are a couple of hot button issues the "new" OP has not gotten to yet. Give it a few more days.

[+ArtieD]

If this subject bothers you or you feel my question is impertinent because I'm too new to this venue, please ignore this thread.

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

 

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

 

What are we up to...14 or 15 new topics that have been discussed one way or another before?

 

We are not UseNet running on 80MB harddrives anymore. Groundspeak has plenty of space for new threads. So what if a topic gets discussed again? Not everybody here is a regular, you know. People get dissed for bumping old threads, and then they get dissed for not.

 

Silly guy. I know what you're doing, you sly goose!

[+ArtieD]

There are a couple of hot button issues the "new" OP has not gotten to yet. Give it a few more days.

 

[+kunarion]

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

If it's my cache getting filled with business cards, receipts, and "literature", I've begun making plans to move or archive it. The junk is a sign that the cache is being found by the neighbors, by utility workers on break, people with random paper on hand, it's not necessarily the paper of Geocachers.

 

If it's a sad cache that's just plain been there forever in a cool place, and out in the open, I may take some time to clean it out and place some nice things instead. Usually, I'll place some of my "What Is Geocaching" kind of Swag. But I might just leave "junk" alone or things not interesting to me, if it's not a matted mess.

 

it's the first thing that struck me as odd about geocaching.

There's something odd about Geocaching?!!

Edited June 15, 2015 by kunarion

[knowschad]

If this subject bothers you or you feel my question is impertinent because I'm too new to this venue, please ignore this thread.

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

 

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

 

What are we up to...14 or 15 new topics that have been discussed one way or another before?

 

We are not UseNet running on 80MB harddrives anymore. Groundspeak has plenty of space for new threads. So what if a topic gets discussed again? Not everybody here is a regular, you know. People get dissed for bumping old threads, and then they get dissed for not.

 

Silly guy. I know what you're doing, you sly goose!

 

All I am doing is trying (probably in vain) to keep this respectful. I get so tired of the "Geeze, you bumped that old thread" followed by "Did you do a search first", followed usually by some picture of a dead horse being flogged. Somebody new asked an old question. Answer it, or don't.

[knowschad]

I would *wish* that people would leave agenda-related stuff out of caches. But that's as far as it bothers me.

[+kunarion]

I would *wish* that people would leave agenda-related stuff out of caches. But that's as far as it bothers me.

Cache full of things that appeal to many people, soon is cache without appealing things.

[knowschad]

I would *wish* that people would leave agenda-related stuff out of caches. But that's as far as it bothers me.

Cache full of things that appeal to many people, soon is cache without appealing things.

 

I'll give you appealing thing!

 

[+kunarion]

I would *wish* that people would leave agenda-related stuff out of caches. But that's as far as it bothers me.

Cache full of things that appeal to many people, soon is cache without appealing things.

 

I'll give you appealing thing!

 

No, not that! But I've placed a bunch of spatulas from packs found at the Dollar Store. You can get a lotta spatulas for a buck.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kunarion

[+niraD]

It's probably not against the rules, but is it cricket?

Or maybe it's a katydid. Or a grasshopper.

 

How do I swap even or up for agenda literature? Do I place my own, better, slicker, nicer spam? Should I come up with a pamphlet that has a puzzle on it that, when completed essentially says, "By My Product" or "Drink More Ovaltine" and just swap those for every agenda-based pamphlet or business card I find?

Or you could just print one of the existing PDF pamphlets about geocaching, for example:

http://www.geocaching.com/tools/#Guide

 

Are there rules that prohibit CO's from removing agenda materials from their own caches, or is it considered rude to do so?

I've removed trash from my caches when I've maintained them. Expired coupons? Trash. Old ticket stubs? Trash. Leaves, twigs, gravel, and other material found in the area surrounding the cache? Trash. Random receipts? Trash. Used or ruined stickers? Trash. Business cards that have no value as personal signature items, usable coupons, etc.? Trash. Anything edible, illegal, or dangerous? Trash. Liquids, like bottles of bubble solution? Trash. And so on.

 

But frankly, this is a high-tech scavenger hunt. Most of the things we find are essentially worthless trinkets. So I generally don't worry about trade items that I don't value, and only bother removing those that are trash.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

I've gotta agree with fizzy on this one:

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

[+dprovan]

One suggestion had been to trade even or trade up. How do I swap even or up for agenda literature?

Spam has zero value, so simply taking it and tossing it is an even trade.

 

Fortunately, I haven't run into that, at least not as a trend. Conceptually, I'd ignore stuff like that, but in practice it tends to turn into mush pretty quick, so I'll take it just to make sure it doesn't pollute the cache the next time there's wet weather.

[+LaughterOnWater]

Thanks for all of your replies. Specific replies below. Good night.

 

C

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

Fair. I have. Many of them seem to be asking permission to place their specific agenda-based materials. Others generally suggest it's not a great idea, or that it's okay for you to place one or two in your own cache, but don't place them in other people's caches. How far do we let the camel's nose in the tent?

 

I believe whining about cache content is supposed to be the third thursday of the month.

I caught the early train!

 

There are a couple of hot button issues the "new" OP has not gotten to yet. Give it a few more days.

Please elaborate. Let's sift through the terrible ideas until only the good ones remain.

 

If there are alternatives to disallowing spam/agenda-literature, what would they be?

If it's my cache getting filled with business cards, receipts, and "literature", I've begun making plans to move or archive it. The junk is a sign that the cache is being found by the neighbors, by utility workers on break, people with random paper on hand, it's not necessarily the paper of Geocachers.

 

If it's a sad cache that's just plain been there forever in a cool place, and out in the open, I may take some time to clean it out and place some nice things instead. Usually, I'll place some of my "What Is Geocaching" kind of Swag. But I might just leave "junk" alone or things not interesting to me, if it's not a matted mess.

 

There's something odd about Geocaching?!!

Your first observation seems on the mark. That's probably true of the bottle cache in the roof-top parking-lot lamp-post cache where people park for football games. Drunk bored spectators come back to their cars, find a cache with stuff in it, and stuff it with their own garbage as a lark.

 

I think geocaching-stats cards that look like collectible baseball cards are not agenda-based, but rather, game-oriented. It's a calling card, letting others know they've been there, similar to a stamp in a log.

 

Cache full of things that appeal to many people, soon is cache without appealing things.

This sounds true. If it's a cache full of agenda-literature, it's not so great for kids, is it?

 

Or maybe it's a katydid. Or a grasshopper.

 

Or you could just print one of the existing PDF pamphlets about geocaching, for example:

http://www.geocaching.com/tools/#Guide

 

I've removed trash from my caches when I've maintained them. Expired coupons? Trash. Old ticket stubs? Trash. Leaves, twigs, gravel, and other material found in the area surrounding the cache? Trash. Random receipts? Trash. Used or ruined stickers? Trash. Business cards that have no value as personal signature items, usable coupons, etc.? Trash. Anything edible, illegal, or dangerous? Trash. Liquids, like bottles of bubble solution? Trash. And so on.

 

But frankly, this is a high-tech scavenger hunt. Most of the things we find are essentially worthless trinkets. So I generally don't worry about trade items that I don't value, and only bother removing those that are trash.

 

I've gotta agree with fizzy on this one:

My favorite alternative: ignoring it and not getting all verklempt over it. And not posting long, whiny new topics about it.

Okay. I think we mostly agree. Trinkets are not the main reason we do it. The main reason is to get the heck out of the house. But when the agenda literature is so crammed in the aspirin bottle that you can't get the log out without ripping its bag or the log itself, it's a bit disappointing.

 

For those who feel they have to replace the agenda-literature with something, how about a Geocache Counter Agenda Card? It brings cultural awareness to a problem and gives players a reasonable, game-abiding alternative that might help level the playing field. The link leads to a pdf of 10-up counter-agenda business-cards. Just print them on white or yellow 50lb. bristol card stock, cut them into business-card size, and you're good to go.

 

 

Spam has zero value, so simply taking it and tossing it is an even trade.

 

Fortunately, I haven't run into that, at least not as a trend. Conceptually, I'd ignore stuff like that, but in practice it tends to turn into mush pretty quick, so I'll take it just to make sure it doesn't pollute the cache the next time there's wet weather.

This seems reasonable to me, but others will say we would be breaking the rules. I'm not convinced that agenda-literature is swag.

[+jwmoe1973]

Might want to consider this with your design...

 

2.5. Logo Usage and Trademark Information

Edited June 15, 2015 by jwmoe1973

[+LaughterOnWater]

Might want to consider this with your design...

 

2.5. Logo Usage and Trademark Information

It's not the GC logo.

[+SwineFlew]

Might want to consider this with your design...

 

2.5. Logo Usage and Trademark Information

If it got so many changed on the logo, its not Groundspeak's anymore. I see way too many changed and its safe.

[+SwineFlew]

The worst places I see for agenda literature is in the Deep South. Where they tell you that you are going to hell for not going to church. I used to live in the Deep South for 4 years. I was down there on a vacation and yep... bumped into alot of "annoying" agenda literature.

 

I really do ignored it... however, I find it unnecessary for people do it that. Yes, make me wanna place a lot of offended literature in caches.

[+niraD]

For those who feel they have to replace the agenda-literature with something, how about a Geocache Counter Agenda Card?

Have you really improved anything by replacing the agenda literature someone else left with your own anti-agenda agenda cards?

 

Geocaching sells trail cards that provide a simple overview of geocaching. And they offer PDF brochures that you can print yourself. Or you can print Geocachers Creed brochures and business cards. Or you can print your anti-agenda agenda cards.

 

But none of these are trade items, any more than a cache note is a trade item.

[+fizzymagic]

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

Fair. I have. Many of them seem to be asking permission to place their specific agenda-based materials. Others generally suggest it's not a great idea, or that it's okay for you to place one or two in your own cache, but don't place them in other people's caches.

Clearly, you have not read the previous forum discussions on this topic, since you completely missed the main points of contention. Thanks for playing, though. It was an amusing episode of watching somebody try to fake it.

 

As to the topic: Your apparently deeply-felt need to inflict your opinions on others in the form of more geocaching rules has been tried by others in the past, with mixed success. Luckily, Groundspeak has been fairly resistant to the needless proliferation of more and more rules, especially on topics as picayune as this one, so I'm not terribly worried that you will succeed in your attempt to make geocaching miserable for everyone else.

[+redsox_mark]

My thoughts:

 

1. It doesn't really bother me.

 

2. I don't think adding rules against it would help, they would be impossible to enforce.

 

3. If the material is just leaflets, and they bothered me, I would remove them from my cache without feeling the need to trade. It is my judgement call that they have no value, so can be removed. Just like I remove other things I think are trash.

 

4. If it is nice swag with an agenda - e.g keychain or pens with a company name, organisation name, or some message, then I would leave them, even if I didn't like the "agenda". I suppose if the SWAG was somehow offensive then I may think otherwise (e.g. pens advertising sex workers) then I would remove them. Not had that happen yet.

[+Isonzo Karst]

But if CO's are not allowed to create an agenda-based cache, why should cache finders be allowed to do distribute their agenda-based materials in any CO's cache?

 

CO's are not allowed to create agenda-based listings. Geocaching.com attempts to control the text published to the site.

 

The standard for trade goods is "family friendly". Business cards, most religious and political tracts will meet this standard. Paper in good condition, you can ignore it, or trade for it. I carry swag items of more than $1 value generally, (stainless 'biners right now), I'd take a fair amount of paper goods in exchange. Once it's wet or moldy you can just clean it out.

 

I've pulled porn out of caches a couple of times. During the last election cycle someone reported finding hate tracts in caches. That's stuff you just remove.

 

No need to add to the paper in caches, and certainly not with your anti-agenda agenda ;-). If you want to do a cacher calling card, sure. Have fun with it!

[+LaughterOnWater]

The worst places I see for agenda literature is in the Deep South. Where they tell you that you are going to hell for not going to church. I used to live in the Deep South for 4 years. I was down there on a vacation and yep... bumped into alot of "annoying" agenda literature.

 

I really do ignored it... however, I find it unnecessary for people do it that. Yes, make me wanna place a lot of offended literature in caches.

Now imagine you're a Jewish or Buddhist family on an outing, and every other cache has a pamphlet that tells you're kids they're going to hell, or that GPS really stands for "Gods Plan of Salvation." It's insulting. But it's not just religious materials. Someone seems to think we all need his air-conditioning repair services, too.

 

For those who feel they have to replace the agenda-literature with something, how about a Geocache Counter Agenda Card?

Have you really improved anything by replacing the agenda literature someone else left with your own anti-agenda agenda cards?

 

Geocaching sells trail cards that provide a simple overview of geocaching. And they offer PDF brochures that you can print yourself. Or you can print Geocachers Creed brochures and business cards. Or you can print your anti-agenda agenda cards.

 

But none of these are trade items, any more than a cache note is a trade item.

My point exactly. They're about as useless as the kind of stuff I'm seeing in caches. The only advantage is, CO's will see them during maintenance and become aware of the problem and other cachers who live under similar circumstances will be able to sanitize unhealthy angenda material with a counter to that agenda.

 

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

Fair. I have. Many of them seem to be asking permission to place their specific agenda-based materials. Others generally suggest it's not a great idea, or that it's okay for you to place one or two in your own cache, but don't place them in other people's caches.

Clearly, you have not read the previous forum discussions on this topic, since you completely missed the main points of contention. Thanks for playing, though. It was an amusing episode of watching somebody try to fake it.

 

As to the topic: Your apparently deeply-felt need to inflict your opinions on others in the form of more geocaching rules has been tried by others in the past, with mixed success. Luckily, Groundspeak has been fairly resistant to the needless proliferation of more and more rules, especially on topics as picayune as this one, so I'm not terribly worried that you will succeed in your attempt to make geocaching miserable for everyone else.

Of course I haven't read every post. I searched for similar topics on this forum, and the ones that came to the top were people asking permission to place their stuff. I'd be very grateful if you could outline the main points of contention as you see them concisely, I'll be further-evolved in my terrible idea, and find myself dropping the issue. But until then, maybe my idea is still a not-so-terrible idea.

 

My thoughts:

 

1. It doesn't really bother me.

 

2. I don't think adding rules against it would help, they would be impossible to enforce.

 

3. If the material is just leaflets, and they bothered me, I would remove them from my cache without feeling the need to trade. It is my judgement call that they have no value, so can be removed. Just like I remove other things I think are trash.

 

4. If it is nice swag with an agenda - e.g keychain or pens with a company name, organisation name, or some message, then I would leave them, even if I didn't like the "agenda". I suppose if the SWAG was somehow offensive then I may think otherwise (e.g. pens advertising sex workers) then I would remove them. Not had that happen yet.

As narcissa pointed out in a previous post, things change different depending on where you live. If you're not inundated with geocaching spam, this is a non-issue. But allowing it just because you don't see it that much in your area doesn't mean it's really okay.

 

But if CO's are not allowed to create an agenda-based cache, why should cache finders be allowed to do distribute their agenda-based materials in any CO's cache?

 

CO's are not allowed to create agenda-based listings. Geocaching.com attempts to control the text published to the site.

 

The standard for trade goods is "family friendly". Business cards, most religious and political tracts will meet this standard. Paper in good condition, you can ignore it, or trade for it. I carry swag items of more than $1 value generally, (stainless 'biners right now), I'd take a fair amount of paper goods in exchange. Once it's wet or moldy you can just clean it out.

 

I've pulled porn out of caches a couple of times. During the last election cycle someone reported finding hate tracts in caches. That's stuff you just remove.

 

No need to add to the paper in caches, and certainly not with your anti-agenda agenda ;-). If you want to do a cacher calling card, sure. Have fun with it!

D-rings are certainly worth more than any agenda literature, but they don't bring the issue into focus where it's a problem. It just allows it to continue. Next week, the same agenda literature will replace your very nice d-ring. A counter agenda card is at least a technically-correct game-abiding even swap for something less offensive, and if the agenda-placers see it, they'll find out that someone else playing the game isn't pleased. If enough players even-swapped with counter-agenda cards where it is a problem the spammers might get the hint. Edited June 15, 2015 by LaughterOnWater

[+redsox_mark]

I'm not saying "allowing it just because you don't see it that much in your area".

 

I'm saying rules won't help, and to remove the stuff if it bothers you.

[+narcissa]

How are people supposed to "get the hint" if you are trading AFTER they have been to the cache? Are you writing to them? Calling them out at events? Outing them in forum posts?

 

Nobody wants to see junk in caches, but we can't even agree on what junk is. Launching a crusade to enforce your swag standards is a recipe for drama. It's not that important.

[+Isonzo Karst]

If enough players even-swapped with counter-agenda cards where it is a problem the spammers might get the hint.

 

Sorry, no, it won't have any impact on cache content, other than to add your agenda paper.

 

It won't help because of high player turnover in the game. People leaving tracts, political, religious, commercial - they're invariably short term.

 

They're not reading anything that's already in a cache they find, ie your card. They'll never read it. They're not going to return to the caches where you've traded out their stuff, and if they did, and saw their tracts gone, they'd be encouraged, not discouraged, someone took them! huzzah, a reader.

[+ArtieD]

As to the topic: Your apparently deeply-felt need to inflict your opinions on others in the form of more geocaching rules has been tried by others in the past, with mixed success. Luckily, Groundspeak has been fairly resistant to the needless proliferation of more and more rules, especially on topics as picayune as this one, so I'm not terribly worried that you will succeed in your attempt to make geocaching miserable for everyone else.

 

I am still baffled why this newbie, with not even a month's experience playing the game, feels the need to try to impose his caching morals on everyone else. He seems to have a deep-seated hatred of anything that doesn't conform to his world view of caching and I guess feels the need to try to make everyone else walk in lock step with what he feels is right. I guess the old saying is true: Everyone can geocache...problem is, everyone can geocache.

 

In the end I agree. I find it refreshing that Groundspeak tends to be very careful about guidelines and rules. Good thing, too, or we'd be caching under draconian rules like what's proposed by the OP.

 

But until then, maybe my idea is still a not-so-terrible idea.

 

No, no. It's pretty much sucks.

[+ArtieD]

Nobody wants to see junk in caches, but we can't even agree on what junk is. Launching a crusade to enforce your swag standards is a recipe for drama. It's not that important.

 

Basically this...

[+The Leprechauns]

Another possibility would have been for you to read past forum threads on the topic.

Fair. I have. Many of them seem to be asking permission to place their specific agenda-based materials. Others generally suggest it's not a great idea, or that it's okay for you to place one or two in your own cache, but don't place them in other people's caches. How far do we let the camel's nose in the tent?

You need to search on the term "sweet potato tract" in order to see the right threads. I only recall one thread where someone was "asking permission to place their specific agenda-based materials." And that one was satirical. Please report back to explain the relevance of that search term and to identify its primary advocate.

 

As for religious materials, they are close to the only thing I would ever trade for at a geocache. After 6000+ cache hunts, trade goods don't interest me anymore. Religious items are an exception, as along the way in my geocaching adventures, I found God through geocaching. Since then I've not been able to trade up or trade even!

 

One pamphlet or tract is an interesting trade item for me, so long as it isn't wet or damaged. Wet or damaged trade items can be trashed out.

 

One pamphlet or tract is not "spam" to me. Ten or twenty would constitute spam. If they are preventing the container from sealing, or precluding easy access to the logbook, I'd remove most of them.

 

Please don't take my favorite type of trade item and replace it with that silly card. I do not perceive it to be of equal value.

[+Bigmada]

I find political, religious, commercial stuff all the time, which doesn't bother me, but finding things like cigarettes, empty chip bags, empty beer cans, condoms, candy, and what not, really gets me pi**ed off.

[+narcissa]

I am still baffled why this newbie, with not even a month's experience playing the game, feels the need to try to impose his caching morals on everyone else. He seems to have a deep-seated hatred of anything that doesn't conform to his world view of caching and I guess feels the need to try to make everyone else walk in lock step with what he feels is right. I guess the old saying is true: Everyone can geocache...problem is, everyone can geocache.

 

I think it's common for new people to feel like they are brimming with great ideas that nobody's thought of before, but it is a little tedious for forum old-timers and regulars to rehash all of these ancient topics that have been beaten to dust in the past. It's tough to get some geocachers to understand that the best way to improve things is through their own habits, rather than by trying to control strangers.

 

The way the forum is set-up, both in technical terms and in the culture that is enforced by heavy moderation, doesn't promote an appropriate level of lurking and getting-up-to-speed that one generally expects in a busy forum. Most of the forum regulars respect the difference between "Getting Started" and "Geocaching Topics," but that distinction isn't enforced in the other direction.

[+ArtieD]

I am still baffled why this newbie, with not even a month's experience playing the game, feels the need to try to impose his caching morals on everyone else. He seems to have a deep-seated hatred of anything that doesn't conform to his world view of caching and I guess feels the need to try to make everyone else walk in lock step with what he feels is right. I guess the old saying is true: Everyone can geocache...problem is, everyone can geocache.

 

I think it's common for new people to feel like they are brimming with great ideas that nobody's thought of before, but it is a little tedious for forum old-timers and regulars to rehash all of these ancient topics that have been beaten to dust in the past. It's tough to get some geocachers to understand that the best way to improve things is through their own habits, rather than by trying to control strangers.

 

The way the forum is set-up, both in technical terms and in the culture that is enforced by heavy moderation, doesn't promote an appropriate level of lurking and getting-up-to-speed that one generally expects in a busy forum. Most of the forum regulars respect the difference between "Getting Started" and "Geocaching Topics," but that distinction isn't enforced in the other direction.

 

I suppose that is true, and you hit on my biggest rubs of the whole deal...rehashing old topics all the time and wanting to change the game all the time.

[+BCandMsKitty]

 

 

 

That card pretty much seems like an agenda to me, and shouldn't be allowed!

 

I think you need to get out and cache more!

Edited June 15, 2015 by BC & MsKitty

[+ArtieD]

I think you need to get out and cache more!

 

Quote of the day!

[+narcissa]

 

 

 

That card pretty much seems like an agenda to me, and shouldn't be allowed!

 

I think you need to get out and cache more!

 

Yeah, I see no material difference between this and other literature. It's just another nuisance scrap of paper in a cache.

[+Team Microdot]

I wonder if Groundspeak could distill down all the existing threads to date into a concise 'knowledge-base' which covers all the topics that have been covered and will eventually be re-covered ad nauseam.

 

Forum newcomers could then be directed to said knowledge-base and refused access to the 'forums proper' until they'd passed a test demonstrating that they had inwardly digested the entire knowledge-base and promised avoid further discussion of those topics so as not to offend forum 'old-timers'.

 

At that point discussion would probably dry up completely and Groundspeak could go ahead and close the forum down, safe in the knowledge that all of human wisdom was safely contained for all of time in what had been discussed before.

[+cerberus1]

[+DanOCan]

Leaving things as they are is one alternative, but as I said before, status quo quickly devolves into status senes.

This is one case where I think the "ignore it" alternative is the best one. Leave it up to the CO if they want to remove the items from their cache.

Sign the log, replace the cache, and move on and don't worry about it.

[+J Grouchy]

Leaving things as they are is one alternative, but as I said before, status quo quickly devolves into status senes.

This is one case where I think the "ignore it" alternative is the best one. Leave it up to the CO if they want to remove the items from their cache.

Sign the log, replace the cache, and move on and don't worry about it.

 

I generally ignore the contents aside from the log and any trackables anyway. Swag is almost always disappointing or disgusting...or both.

[Luckless]

A person can do whatever they want to with a cache. This game is played on the honor system and hopefully by being a member they will abide by the rules.

I'll usually take out what I don't like and try to leave a cache in better condition than when I found it. I'll wipe out the dirt and moisture, remove anything I consider trash and put things in ziplock bags if it looks like the cache leaks. To me, how the next cacher finds the cache is important. I want them to have fun and finding a cache in good shape is fun. As for agenda literature, I'll ignore it if it is in good shape, not offensive, or something someone put in there because they mistook the cache for a garbage can.

[+AustinMN]

a lot of offended literature in caches.

 

My quote of the week, and it's only Monday.

[+AustinMN]

I'm thinking of starting to leave pamphlets in support of my cause, "Save the pixels!"

[+niraD]

If you want to do a cacher calling card, sure. Have fun with it!

Yeah, that could be fun. I'd trade for a personal signature card.

 

If you feel you must, you could even put your anti-agenda agenda on the back of a nice personal signature card.

[+LaughterOnWater]

I wonder if Groundspeak could distill down all the existing threads to date into a concise 'knowledge-base' which covers all the topics that have been covered and will eventually be re-covered ad nauseam.

 

Forum newcomers could then be directed to said knowledge-base and refused access to the 'forums proper' until they'd passed a test demonstrating that they had inwardly digested the entire knowledge-base and promised avoid further discussion of those topics so as not to offend forum 'old-timers'.

 

At that point discussion would probably dry up completely and Groundspeak could go ahead and close the forum down, safe in the knowledge that all of human wisdom was safely contained for all of time in what had been discussed before.

This has been done elsewhere fairly well. It's usually an adjacent wiki, managed by forum members, often linked in the main header of the forum. My personal preference is a yellow lightbulb icon. You just tell newbies to find "Agenda Literature" under the yellow lightbulb. Cinch.

[+LaughterOnWater]

A person can do whatever they want to with a cache. This game is played on the honor system and hopefully by being a member they will abide by the rules.

I'll usually take out what I don't like and try to leave a cache in better condition than when I found it. I'll wipe out the dirt and moisture, remove anything I consider trash and put things in ziplock bags if it looks like the cache leaks. To me, how the next cacher finds the cache is important. I want them to have fun and finding a cache in good shape is fun. As for agenda literature, I'll ignore it if it is in good shape, not offensive, or something someone put in there because they mistook the cache for a garbage can.

That's mostly the consensus on this forum. But it's hard to ignore when I'm knee deep in it.