Narrow Necked Small Bottles Make Crummy Caches.

[+LaughterOnWater]

Regardless of how well the cache is camouflaged, there's one type of container that just doesn't seem very geocache-friendly: small narrow-necked bottles.

 

If there is one thing that is frustrating, it's trying to pull a ziplock-bagged log out of a container fully crammed with religious business cards, old movie or game stubs, candy wrappers and a tiny trinket or two where the neck of the container is narrower than the container itself. And the log is invariably crammed in the bottom of the bottle. You can't reach it with a finger. Heck, I'm not going to stick my finger inside a narrow bottle where I can't see what others have put in there. Tweezers become part of your geocaching utility kit, and even then, you're still likely to poke or stretch the bag or rip the log. Sometimes, you end up destroying the log or the bag it might be in. And you can see that others have likewise had the same challenge before you.

 

If the neck of the container is about the same size as the container's girth, contents can often be tapped or slid out.

 

Is there somewhere on geocaching.com where container strategy is laid out for new cache creators? I'm not just talking about how to make a good cache, but also how to avoid making a crummy cache. It seems like there should be something about this on this page in the "Hiding Geocaches" area, more than just a link to the store, to buy official merch.

Edited June 5, 2015 by LaughterOnWater

[+L0ne.R]

Hear Hear!

And as someone who likes swag and trackables, those narrow neck bottles, e.g. drinking bottles, get listed as small when in actual fact you can't put anything but pencils or beads in the cache.

 

Edited June 5, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+corupt1]

I have only ran into one cache that used that type of container. Luckly I would say the bottle had a "wide-mouth" design and wasn't very difficult to get the log out of it. I can definitely see where a narrow opening container would make things difficult.

Edited June 5, 2015 by corupt1

[+LaughterOnWater]

An anodized bottle is probably even more frustrating, because the neck is even narrower.

I've seen several so far like this, and not all from the same CO.

Yes, they're airtight and things don't get soggy, but they are far from ideal with regards to log retrieval.

[+AustinMN]

Far worse, in my opinion, are containers that do not stand up to the local climate.

 

Creativity in containers is part of the game. But if the container will not do well in the local conditions (whether they be rain, flood, extreme heat, mountains of snow, etc.) that should be discouraged. I have seen caches that were in a typical water bottle and tied securely to a tree. It works really well, because they are in an area that ends up underwater every spring during the thaw.

 

Check for the letter "TOTT"...it stands for "Tools Of The Trade" and often means tweezers or soem other log-retrieval device. You are complaining about a total non-problem.

Edited June 5, 2015 by AustinMN

[+LaughterOnWater]

Also, it's probably why the only things you find in there are a frazzled log, business cards and candy wrappers.

[+LaughterOnWater]

Far worse, in my opinion, are containers that do not stand up to the local climate.

 

Creativity in containers is part of the game. But if the container will not do well in the local conditions (whether they be rain, flood, extreme heat, mountains of snow, etc.) that should be discouraged. I have seen caches that were in a typical water bottle and tied securely to a tree. It works really well, because they are in an area that ends up underwater every spring during the thaw.

Okay, I can understand that. Maybe it's time to design an anodized widemouth bottle?

[+AustinMN]

Far worse, in my opinion, are containers that do not stand up to the local climate.

 

Creativity in containers is part of the game. But if the container will not do well in the local conditions (whether they be rain, flood, extreme heat, mountains of snow, etc.) that should be discouraged. I have seen caches that were in a typical water bottle and tied securely to a tree. It works really well, because they are in an area that ends up underwater every spring during the thaw.

Okay, I can understand that. Maybe it's time to design an anodized widemouth bottle?

 

Maybe it's time for you to put together a kit of the Tools of the Trade. My wife and I often cache together, and have decided we each perfer different tools.

 

BTW, our posts are overlapping, so you may not have noticed my edit to my prior post.

[knowschad]

Far worse, in my opinion, are containers that do not stand up to the local climate.

 

Creativity in containers is part of the game. But if the container will not do well in the local conditions (whether they be rain, flood, extreme heat, mountains of snow, etc.) that should be discouraged. I have seen caches that were in a typical water bottle and tied securely to a tree. It works really well, because they are in an area that ends up underwater every spring during the thaw.

Okay, I can understand that. Maybe it's time to design an anodized widemouth bottle?

 

Maybe it's time for you to put together a kit of the Tools of the Trade. My wife and I often cache together, and have decided we each perfer different tools.

 

BTW, our posts are overlapping, so you may not have noticed my edit to my prior post.

 

Toolkit or not, a narrow-necked bottle is going to be a bottle-neck when it comes to getting the log out. Tweezers may help, but should not be necessary. A toothpick or wire glued to the log can help, but they are still lousy cache containers. I know of one cacher that sometimes not only does that, but then puts the log in a small section snipped from a plastic straw. It works, but still shouldn't be necessary.

 

I would argue that narrow-necked containers are not cache containers at all... merely log containers.

[+LaughterOnWater]

Maybe it's time for you to put together a kit of the Tools of the Trade. My wife and I often cache together, and have decided we each perfer different tools.

I'd been wondering what the right search term would be for that. After I lost my keys last week, I realized I had to get smarter about it too, and actually put together a day pack for just this purpose.

• Pen
  
• Flashlight
  
• replacement logs in zip bags (for soggy/missing logs)
  
• Swappables
  
• Water bottle
  
• Snacks
  
• Tablet with App
  
• Stuff that falls out of pockets on trails:
  
  • Phone
    
  • Wallet
    
  • Keys
    

 

So I'm adding tweezers, garbage bag, dry bag, and at some point, an analog compass and a 1-inch/2-inch mirror on an extender stick. I'm not night caching yet, so I haven't added an LED UV light, though I have one.

 

Any other TOTT?

 

EDIT: I found these ideas from BluePanther51 in another thread on geocaching TOTT.

 

...

string

plastic bag - can be cut to make a string

shoe laces

fishing line

lanyard

paperclip

coathanger

fish hook

cord

stiff wire ...

Edited June 5, 2015 by LaughterOnWater

[+LaughterOnWater]

Toolkit or not, a narrow-necked bottle is going to be a bottle-neck when it comes to getting the log out. Tweezers may help, but should not be necessary. A toothpick or wire glued to the log can help, but they are still lousy cache containers. I know of one cacher that sometimes not only does that, but then puts the log in a small section snipped from a plastic straw. It works, but still shouldn't be necessary.

 

I would argue that narrow-necked containers are not cache containers at all... merely log containers.

+1

Now if other cachers would only agree...

[+L0ne.R]

An anodized bottle is probably even more frustrating, because the neck is even narrower.

I've seen several so far like this, and not all from the same CO.

Yes, they're airtight and things don't get soggy, but they are far from ideal with regards to log retrieval.

 

Yes, the recycled aspirin bottle. A classic narrow neck geocaching container. More popular then the narrow neck water bottle.

I always say something about the problem container style in my log when I encounter them. Hopefully it might discourage the owner from planting more of them.

[+narcissa]

These bottles are often fine for log-only caches. It's when people insist on cramming swag into them that it becomes really problematic. Some caches shouldn't have swag in them.

[+J Grouchy]

Maybe it's time for you to put together a kit of the Tools of the Trade. My wife and I often cache together, and have decided we each perfer different tools.

I'd been wondering what the right search term would be for that. After I lost my keys last week, I realized I had to get smarter about it too, and actually put together a day pack for just this purpose.

• Pen
  
• Flashlight
  
• replacement logs in zip bags (for soggy/missing logs)
  
• Swappables
  
• Water bottle
  
• Snacks
  
• Tablet with App
  
• Stuff that falls out of pockets on trails:
  
  • Phone
    
  • Wallet
    
  • Keys
    

 

So I'm adding tweezers, garbage bag, dry bag, and at some point, an analog compass and a 1-inch/2-inch mirror on an extender stick. I'm not night caching yet, so I haven't added an LED UV light, though I have one.

 

Any other TOTT?

 

Sanitizing hand wipes.

 

I can't tell you how many mud-caked/bug-infested/mold-covered caches I've found. Not to mention those times when you get scratched or scraped and just want to get the area cleaned until you can get to a sink or shower.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Far worse, in my opinion, are containers that do not stand up to the local climate.

 

 

Equally as worse, in my opinion are containers stuffed into a hiding spot such that they're difficult to extract, especially in an area with lots of muggles. At least for a container with a narrow mouth one can take the contain to a quiet spot and work on getting the log removed, sign it, replace the log and stick in back in the hiding spot.

 

I spent a few hours caching with a former regular poster here awhile back and we found a cache that was a bison stuck in a small birdhouse that was hung from a branch. He spent several minutes try to get to bison fit through the hole in the birdhouse before handing it to me. I spent a few more minutes and was finally able to dislodge the container. Fortunately we were in an empty park so nobody noticed us.

 

In another case, the cache was a hide-a-key hidden in a structure for a metal sign. I probably spent about 10 minutes trying to wedge my fingers into the spot and extract the container. When I finally got it out I discovered that it was a letterbox (not a LH Hybrid) and then I noticed another hide-a-key on the other side of the structure in an equally inaccessible spot. In this case, the cache was about 30 feet from the windows of a Starbucks, but I was looking for it early in the morning on New Years so it was really quiet in the area.

[+LaughterOnWater]

I always say something about the problem container style in my log when I encounter them. Hopefully it might discourage the owner from planting more of them.

Done that twice so far.

 

These bottles are often fine for log-only caches. It's when people insist on cramming swag into them that it becomes really problematic. Some caches shouldn't have swag in them.

+1

Except people gonna do what we do. Wadded-up business cards and ticket stubs aren't swag, but they show up anyway. Maybe something should be written on the front of the log: "Log-only cache. All swag will be discarded. Leave no swag, only your log. Thank you!"

[knowschad]

These bottles are often fine for log-only caches. It's when people insist on cramming swag into them that it becomes really problematic. Some caches shouldn't have swag in them.

 

But when the coiled up log unwinds inside of the larger body of the bottle, it jams, often tearing, when trying to extract it (this the logic of the section of plastic soda straw my friend uses). And if you can't (or shouldn't) put swag in the container, then why not simply use a Bison tube?

[+narcissa]

Except people gonna do what we do. Wadded-up business cards and ticket stubs aren't swag, but they show up anyway. Maybe something should be written on the front of the log: "Log-only cache. All swag will be discarded. Leave no swag, only your log. Thank you!"

 

You go ahead, let us know how it goes.

[knowschad]

When I finally got it out I discovered that it was a letterbox (not a LH Hybrid) and then I noticed another hide-a-key on the other side of the structure in an equally inaccessible spot. In this case, the cache was about 30 feet from the windows of a Starbucks

Just goes to show that a great place for a cache is a great place for a cache!!

[+L0ne.R]

These bottles are often fine for log-only caches. It's when people insist on cramming swag into them that it becomes really problematic. Some caches shouldn't have swag in them.

 

Some containers shouldn't be used as geocache containers.

Narrow neck containers don't properly hold logsheets either. The logsheet tends to be larger then the neck - often a folded sheet of paper that's put into a sandwich size baggie then crammed into the aspirin jar. Pulling at the baggie doesn't always get the log out. Some COs put a scrolled up log inside but it ends up unscrolling inside the log which makes it tough to get out. Even with tweezers these can be hard to get out. The log gets torn up making it even more difficult to extract.

 

 

[+narcissa]

These bottles are often fine for log-only caches. It's when people insist on cramming swag into them that it becomes really problematic. Some caches shouldn't have swag in them.

 

Some containers shouldn't be used as geocache containers.

Narrow neck containers don't properly hold logsheets either. The logsheet tends to be larger then the neck - often a folded sheet of paper that's put into a sandwich size baggie then crammed into the aspirin jar. Pulling at the baggie doesn't always get the log out. Some COs put a scrolled up log inside but it ends up unscrolling inside the log which makes it tough to get out. Even with tweezers these can be hard to get out. The log gets torn up making it even more difficult to extract.

 

 

 

Meh, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. It's not a container I would choose, but it's better than a cracked margarine tub or an LCBO bag.

[+L0ne.R]

I always say something about the problem container style in my log when I encounter them. Hopefully it might discourage the owner from planting more of them.

Done that twice so far.

 

These bottles are often fine for log-only caches. It's when people insist on cramming swag into them that it becomes really problematic. Some caches shouldn't have swag in them.

+1

Except people gonna do what we do. Wadded-up business cards and ticket stubs aren't swag, but they show up anyway. Maybe something should be written on the front of the log: "Log-only cache. All swag will be discarded. Leave no swag, only your log. Thank you!"

 

And cache owners shouldn't list narrow neck log-only caches as small. A small should hold a sandwich (at least half a sandwich) - intact, not squished into a doughy goo and crammed into the water bottle.

[knowschad]

A small should hold a sandwich (at least half a sandwich) - intact, not squished into a doughy goo and crammed into the water bottle.

Bologna!

[+narcissa]

And cache owners shouldn't list narrow neck log-only caches as small. A small should hold a sandwich (at least half a sandwich) - intact, not squished into a doughy goo and crammed into the water bottle.

 

I see your point, but for me the size can be important to the search. If a cache is listed as a micro, I am looking for something micro size.

[+on4bam]

[

 

So I'm adding tweezers, garbage bag, dry bag, and at some point, an analog compass and a 1-inch/2-inch mirror on an extender stick. I'm not night caching yet, so I haven't added an LED UV light, though I have one.

 

Any other TOTT?

 

UV can be useful in daytime too.

Strong magnet + wire

Different screwdrivers.

Box cutter

insulation tape

I also keep a 2 liter bottle of water in the car.

Wrench

 

Anything in the listing that might be needed (a caching friend has a little ladder in his car that can be extended.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

[

 

So I'm adding tweezers, garbage bag, dry bag, and at some point, an analog compass and a 1-inch/2-inch mirror on an extender stick. I'm not night caching yet, so I haven't added an LED UV light, though I have one.

 

Any other TOTT?

 

UV can be useful in daytime too.

Strong magnet + wire

Different screwdrivers.

Box cutter

insulation tape

I also keep a 2 liter bottle of water in the car.

Wrench

 

Anything in the listing that might be needed (a caching friend has a little ladder in his car that can be extended.

 

I was looking at some Earthcaches in Dublin (a possible layover city for an upcoming business trip) and noticed a couple that requiring measuring the length/width of an object at GZ. How many include a tape measure as a TOTT?

[+on4bam]

I was looking at some Earthcaches in Dublin (a possible layover city for an upcoming business trip) and noticed a couple that requiring measuring the length/width of an object at GZ. How many include a tape measure as a TOTT?

 

I do.. A 2m roll up

 

Also: a set of Hex keys

 

9V battery

4.5V battery

"prikstok"

 

Digital camera. Saved me going back to previous WPs after mistyping/reading info.

 

The more sophisticated caches need tools most of the time (magnet to activate a voice or LCD WP).

So...headphones are also in the backpack.

[knowschad]

So, this is now yet another "What is in YOUR cache bag" thread?

[+AustinMN]

And cache owners shouldn't list narrow neck log-only caches as small. A small should hold a sandwich (at least half a sandwich) - intact, not squished into a doughy goo and crammed into the water bottle.

 

I see your point, but for me the size can be important to the search. If a cache is listed as a micro, I am looking for something micro size.

 

The guidelines point to the inside space when determining cache size. I've found a couple that were large based on the outside but small or micro in the inside. In one case it was listed as micro, in the other "unknown." I agree with both.

 

Austin

[+JL_HSTRE]

Narrow neck containers are better off with no contents except a rolled logsheet without a baggie.

[+AustinMN]

Far worse, in my opinion, are containers that do not stand up to the local climate.

 

 

Equally as worse, in my opinion are containers stuffed into a hiding spot such that they're difficult to extract, especially in an area with lots of muggles. At least for a container with a narrow mouth one can take the contain to a quiet spot and work on getting the log removed, sign it, replace the log and stick in back in the hiding spot.

 

I spent a few hours caching with a former regular poster here awhile back and we found a cache that was a bison stuck in a small birdhouse that was hung from a branch. He spent several minutes try to get to bison fit through the hole in the birdhouse before handing it to me. I spent a few more minutes and was finally able to dislodge the container. Fortunately we were in an empty park so nobody noticed us.

 

I would have given that a favorite point.

[+narcissa]

And cache owners shouldn't list narrow neck log-only caches as small. A small should hold a sandwich (at least half a sandwich) - intact, not squished into a doughy goo and crammed into the water bottle.

 

I see your point, but for me the size can be important to the search. If a cache is listed as a micro, I am looking for something micro size.

 

The guidelines point to the inside space when determining cache size. I've found a couple that were large based on the outside but small or micro in the inside. In one case it was listed as micro, in the other "unknown." I agree with both.

 

Austin

 

Yeah, that can be a tough call. It's not really something that would bother me either way.

 

I get a little irked by the clowns who list those nano containers as "Unknown." Grr...

[+LaughterOnWater]

Except people gonna do what we do. Wadded-up business cards and ticket stubs aren't swag, but they show up anyway. Maybe something should be written on the front of the log: "Log-only cache. All swag will be discarded. Leave no swag, only your log. Thank you!"

 

You go ahead, let us know how it goes.

I'm chuckling here... I see your point.

[+niraD]

Narrow neck containers are better off with no contents except a rolled logsheet without a baggie.

I've seen a few narrow-mouth containers that had a tube for the log. If the log sheet was rolled up and put in the tube, then it could go through the neck easily.

 

Of course, it would have been better to have a wide-mouth container in the first place...

[+cerberus1]

Narrow neck containers are better off with no contents except a rolled logsheet without a baggie.

I've seen a few narrow-mouth containers that had a tube for the log. If the log sheet was rolled up and put in the tube, then it could go through the neck easily.

 

Of course, it would have been better to have a wide-mouth container in the first place...

+1

One near us thought it'd be a fun series to use water bottles with a straw to-the-cap inside - with the log in the straw.

Roadside hides to boot, numerous NMs and NAs (along with the litter crews and CITO cachers...) , he finally decided that it wasn't as "clever" as he thought.

[+derektiffany]

Is there somewhere on geocaching.com where container strategy is laid out for new cache creators? I'm not just talking about how to make a good cache, but also how to avoid making a crummy cache. It seems like there should be something about this on this page in the "Hiding Geocaches" area, more than just a link to the store, to buy official merch.

There is.

 

From the page you linked to:

Before considering your first geocache hide, we suggest that you find a variety of caches in your area. Seeing caches in a variety of locations, in different containers and hidden by a variety of users will help you understand what makes a great cache hide.

[+wmpastor]

So, this is now yet another "What is in YOUR cache bag" thread?

 

Evolution is an unstoppable force!

 

The bummer is that I didn't get to spring my usual UV light coup de grace as I did the last 3 times! Someone beat me to it!

 

Did anyone mention the chirp or the Android workaround?

[+TriciaG]

But when the coiled up log unwinds inside of the larger body of the bottle, it jams, often tearing, when trying to extract it (this the logic of the section of plastic soda straw my friend uses). And if you can't (or shouldn't) put swag in the container, then why not simply use a Bison tube?

Because the pill bottle is free!

[+cerberus1]

But when the coiled up log unwinds inside of the larger body of the bottle, it jams, often tearing, when trying to extract it (this the logic of the section of plastic soda straw my friend uses). And if you can't (or shouldn't) put swag in the container, then why not simply use a Bison tube?

Because the pill bottle is free!

+1

A caching friend owns a convalescent home.

With all those old folks on meds, guess what type of container he puts out.

[knowschad]

But when the coiled up log unwinds inside of the larger body of the bottle, it jams, often tearing, when trying to extract it (this the logic of the section of plastic soda straw my friend uses). And if you can't (or shouldn't) put swag in the container, then why not simply use a Bison tube?

Because the pill bottle is free!

 

Bad reason.

[+LaughterOnWater]

From the page you linked to:

Before considering your first geocache hide, we suggest that you find a variety of caches in your area. Seeing caches in a variety of locations, in different containers and hidden by a variety of users will help you understand what makes a great cache hide.

Yes, experience is all-important. Still, not all of us are as discriminating when it comes to what constitutes a well-crafted cache, nor do all of us hide a cache after at least 100 finds. It really would help if there were specific tips on that page that show examples of really bad caches, pointing out why they're bad.

[+LaughterOnWater]

But when the coiled up log unwinds inside of the larger body of the bottle, it jams, often tearing, when trying to extract it (this the logic of the section of plastic soda straw my friend uses). And if you can't (or shouldn't) put swag in the container, then why not simply use a Bison tube?

Because the pill bottle is free!

 

Bad reason.

There are pill bottle with straight necks, about the same size as film canisters. These generally have the same diameter as the narrow-necked pill bottle, but since there's no real neck, it's still easy to slide out the log. They're also more commonly found than the narrow-necked bottle in most US medicine cabinets, eh? The term 'bottle-neck' as synonym for 'congestion' or 'blockage' isn't accidental.

Edited June 6, 2015 by LaughterOnWater

[+LaughterOnWater]

Narrow neck containers are better off with no contents except a rolled logsheet without a baggie.

In an ideal world, but if it looks like there might be room, a lot of people are still going to cram their religious business cards, game-ticket stubs, receipts and even postcards into that same narrow bottle with the log, marbles, horse chestnuts, bobby pins and cheap-foamy-craft-stickers-they-bought-at-Michael's-craft-store. Because they can.

 

C

[knowschad]

Narrow neck containers are better off with no contents except a rolled logsheet without a baggie.

In an ideal world, but if it looks like there might be room, a lot of people are still going to cram their religious business cards, game-ticket stubs, receipts and even postcards into that same narrow bottle with the log, marbles, horse chestnuts, bobby pins and cheap-foamy-craft-stickers-they-bought-at-Michael's-craft-store. Because they can.

 

C

 

You've learned all this in just 35 finds?

[+LaughterOnWater]

You've learned all this in just 35 finds?

Please tell me I'm wrong. I want to be wrong...

So am I wrong?

I'm out in the woods on odd days scribbling my name in wet logs and putting trinkets in boxes...

I guess in the end, we're all five years old inside.

 

[ Edit: Removed animated gif, Ricky Ricardo looking confused. ]

Edited June 7, 2015 by LaughterOnWater

[+TriciaG]

But when the coiled up log unwinds inside of the larger body of the bottle, it jams, often tearing, when trying to extract it (this the logic of the section of plastic soda straw my friend uses). And if you can't (or shouldn't) put swag in the container, then why not simply use a Bison tube?

Because the pill bottle is free!

 

Bad reason.

You didn't ask for a GOOD reason.

[+L0ne.R]

From the page you linked to:

Before considering your first geocache hide, we suggest that you find a variety of caches in your area. Seeing caches in a variety of locations, in different containers and hidden by a variety of users will help you understand what makes a great cache hide.

Yes, experience is all-important. Still, not all of us are as discriminating when it comes to what constitutes a well-crafted cache, nor do all of us hide a cache after at least 100 finds. It really would help if there were specific tips on that page that show examples of really bad caches, pointing out why they're bad.

 

This old forum topic had lots of examples: Photos/images of bad containers http://forums.Ground...ntainers&st=350

Edited June 6, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+LaughterOnWater]

This old forum topic had lots of examples: Photos/images of bad containers http://forums.Ground...ntainers&st=350

Thanks L0ne.R. There are some crusty containers in there for sure.

[+fuzziebear3]

[

 

So I'm adding tweezers, garbage bag, dry bag, and at some point, an analog compass and a 1-inch/2-inch mirror on an extender stick. I'm not night caching yet, so I haven't added an LED UV light, though I have one.

 

Any other TOTT?

 

UV can be useful in daytime too.

Strong magnet + wire

Different screwdrivers.

Box cutter

insulation tape

I also keep a 2 liter bottle of water in the car.

Wrench

 

Anything in the listing that might be needed (a caching friend has a little ladder in his car that can be extended.

 

I was looking at some Earthcaches in Dublin (a possible layover city for an upcoming business trip) and noticed a couple that requiring measuring the length/width of an object at GZ. How many include a tape measure as a TOTT?

 

I have seen Earthcaches that require thermometers, micrometers, and other measuring devices.

I don't carry these things with me all the time, I add them as needed when I am planning to do an earthcache.