Local Cache in Private Park?

[+cerberus1]

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

I don't know about you, but I'm not about to ask a Reviewer for proof.

Don't you check first before saying things?

[+Tassie_Boy]

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

 

 

A reviewer came into the conversation earlier on, he has access to background info that we cannot see, like deleted logs, and made the comment that the CO has a history of deleting logs that call the cache into question. I'll let you go back through the thread and find the post.

[jholly]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

Thanks for the chuckles.

 

Some one with two caches makes a comment? Now that is down right hilarious. This two cache wonder besides being a moderator also happens to be a reviewer. Some one that can see the deleted logs. The proletariat can't view deleted logs. As for IslandsandOceans I don't suppose you ever considered it might be the account of a land manager that that is involved with caching and probably is active themselves with caching. As for local involvement, I think Laughteronwather qualifies.

Edited June 14, 2015 by jholly

[+cerberus1]

(I was involuntarily autocorrected to "dadgum" above!")

That's a good thing.

Keeps people with potty-mouths from getting banned.

[Pup Patrol]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

 

Seriously?

 

One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them.

 

 

B.

[knowschad]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

 

It was a reviewer & moderator that said that troublesome logs have been deleted. link. They can see deleted logs. Apparently there HAVE been problems in that 10 dadgum years. You just don't know about it because somebody (most likely the cache owner) deleted them.

 

Now I'm going to speculate... it is *possible* that the cache was on public land ten years ago. Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed. It is also *possible* that it was not on that one homeowner's private property within the HOA land originally. It is my understanding from one of the above posts that the cache was moved fairly recently... that could be when it was moved onto private property. In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

[+Geojunkie_George]

(I was involuntarily autocorrected to "dadgum" above!")

 

I do not like being involuntarily autocorrected

[+jwmoe1973]

SO, now that it's TD it's getting more traffic...

[knowschad]

SO, now that it's TD it's getting more traffic...

 

"TD"?

[+UMainah]

SO, now that it's TD it's getting more traffic...

 

"TD"?

Temporarily Disabled

[+jwmoe1973]

Sorry, haven't been sleeping much lately. Temporarily Disabled...

[knowschad]

Sorry, haven't been sleeping much lately. Temporarily Disabled...

Oh, of course. I should have guessed that... sorry.

 

Yes, it is getting a little more attention. Getting comments like this:

 

If you drive to the cache coords, you will probably end up cutting thru on private property to find this cache. The parking coords allow you to walk on common area. Love the lily pads blooming!

 

Well, the GIS map doesn't lie. The cache is on private property within the HOA. The sign near parking coords says Private. It is a common area for the residents, as far as I can tell. People really should stay out until this is settled.

[+jwmoe1973]

Well, the GIS map doesn't lie. The cache is on private property within the HOA. The sign near parking coords says Private. It is a common area for the residents, as far as I can tell. People really should stay out until this is settled.

 

Yeah, I read the posts out of curiosity. This whole thread has been, ummm, interesting as there's a very similar situation with a cache near me...

 

No, I didn't log NA, though I should have. Still might.

[jholly]

Sorry, haven't been sleeping much lately. Temporarily Disabled...

Oh, of course. I should have guessed that... sorry.

 

Yes, it is getting a little more attention. Getting comments like this:

 

If you drive to the cache coords, you will probably end up cutting thru on private property to find this cache. The parking coords allow you to walk on common area. Love the lily pads blooming!

 

Well, the GIS map doesn't lie. The cache is on private property within the HOA. The sign near parking coords says Private. It is a common area for the residents, as far as I can tell. People really should stay out until this is settled.

No doubt it made the six o'clock news with film at 11 - or at least the local twitface page. So ya folks are going to go and check it out. Apparently the neighbor whose land the cache is on does not have a fence running down his property line so coming in from the path on the HOA land they don't perceive, or don't care to acknowledge, that they are trespassing on private land. Hopefully the right thing will be done, but in the mean time there is plenty of opportunity for bad things to happen as long as the cache is physically there. And a film can to boot.

[+UMainah]

Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed.

In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

 

The sign has been there since at least 2008.

[knowschad]

Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed.

In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

 

The sign has been there since at least 2008.

 

How did you determine that?

[knowschad]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

 

Perhaps it is a good time to repost the GIS map. If you will look at the cache page map, and compare it with this, you will see that the cache is located within the property marked by the orange lines. Private property, within the HOA property.

 

Edited June 15, 2015 by knowschad

[+UMainah]

Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed.

In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

 

The sign has been there since at least 2008.

 

How did you determine that?

 

Too blurry to be definitive, but that's when Street View drove past the first time.

[knowschad]

Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed.

In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

 

The sign has been there since at least 2008.

 

How did you determine that?

 

Too blurry to be definitive, but that's when Street View drove past the first time.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm still missing your point. Do you know that the signs were there in the first Street View photos? Google does update them from time to time.

[+J Grouchy]

Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed.

In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

 

The sign has been there since at least 2008.

 

How did you determine that?

 

Too blurry to be definitive, but that's when Street View drove past the first time.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm still missing your point. Do you know that the signs were there in the first Street View photos? Google does update them from time to time.

 

In the upper left corner of the street view page, you can use a slider to view the previous street view shots at that location. In this particular view, it only goes back to 2008. I'd bet the sign has been there as long as the development has, though.

[+JL_HSTRE]

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

The comment came from a Reviewer. Reviewers can see deleted logs.

[knowschad]

Or, at least, it is possible that the area was not posted as No Trespassing when the cache was originally placed.

In any case, No Trespassing means No Trespassing.

 

The sign has been there since at least 2008.

 

How did you determine that?

 

Too blurry to be definitive, but that's when Street View drove past the first time.

 

Sorry, I guess I'm still missing your point. Do you know that the signs were there in the first Street View photos? Google does update them from time to time.

 

In the upper left corner of the street view page, you can use a slider to view the previous street view shots at that location. In this particular view, it only goes back to 2008. I'd bet the sign has been there as long as the development has, though.

 

Ahhh, yes! Thanks.... the time travel slider from Google Earth! Gotcha.

[+IslandsAndOcean]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

I'd just like to address this personally, and publicly for context.

 

Hi, I'm a Land Manager on Geocaching.com.

 

If you familiarize yourself with the Land Manager account program, you'll see that the importance of Groundspeak's Guidelines for game play and how we Land Managers interact with the game: No matter where you are, we expect that Groundspeak and users of the website will abide by the Fundamental guidelines--including Trespass issues, and assurances that geocachers have obtained permission from land managers/owners for their hides.

 

If a cache comes to the attention of Land Managers which shows that the Fundamental Guidelines are not being followed, it makes us a tad more touchy and reluctant to allow geocaching on our lands.

 

You see, it's important to put a good face forward, and calling me a "nonprofessional" or "nonspecialist" (dilettante, above) is really quite inaccurate. While you're welcome to have an opinion about me, Land Managers, or this discussion, you will want to review the Fundamental Guidelines of the game and start thinking about perceptions we Land Managers have when we see an issue come up (often repeatedly, such as trespass or permission issues).

 

10 years, or 10 minutes, this cache is against the Fundamental Placement Guidelines of the game, and the cache owner has been given 30 days to provide proof of permission from the land owner.

 

I suggest that you review the Guidelines as well, and consider the facts that Land Manager and Reviewer accounts are often held by those who have been geocaching for far longer than you have been, and have a very acute awareness and understanding of the guidelines for the game.

[+NeverSummer]

Lol, I do too GeoJunkie!

 

But what I don't like are long distance sanctimonious know-it-alls throwing our local cachers (especially new cachers) under the bus when all they did was ask a question and especially throwing shade at our reviewer who rocks btw.

 

One person needed to answer this post and all they needed to say was email CO.

 

I'm hoping that you've taken time to

1. Read the guidelines
   
2. Read this entire thread
   
3. Consider the circumstances
   
4. Recognize what "throwing shade" really looks like
   

 

I'm really not clear on how a Land Manager's post to a cache page which breaks the guidelines makes that person smug, a know-it-all, self-righteous, or preachy. What I see is someone who used the guidelines of the game to describe why the cache needed to be archived, and provided context to the Reviewer so they could make more clear decisions with how to act.

 

You know, the OP can still post a second Needs Archived log so the Reviewer will be able to contact them for more context. I'm guessing that LOW is not thinking that such a good idea with replies like yours coming to this thread...

Edited June 15, 2015 by NeverSummer

[+NeverSummer]

The poor newbie that started this thread pretty clearly stated that they would prefer not to antagonize the local caching community.

 

Whoever put the "needs archived" on the cache page (some Cacher from Alaska with one find?) linked to this conversation in his post instead of sending to the reviewer directly. Now half of North Georgia knows who it is. Way to go.

Do you know that this issue wasn't first taken directly to the Reviewer by someone?

[+SwineFlew]

I was gone on a major geowoodstock trip and came home to a 6 page thread!

 

Well... after reading a bunch of posts... I will say this, archived the cache. Its over with! To the CO that's deleting logs... you know better! Deleting logs saying its on a private property can open yourself to lawsuits.

[+NeverSummer]

Sorry, haven't been sleeping much lately. Temporarily Disabled...

Oh, of course. I should have guessed that... sorry.

 

Yes, it is getting a little more attention. Getting comments like this:

 

If you drive to the cache coords, you will probably end up cutting thru on private property to find this cache. The parking coords allow you to walk on common area. Love the lily pads blooming!

 

Well, the GIS map doesn't lie. The cache is on private property within the HOA. The sign near parking coords says Private. It is a common area for the residents, as far as I can tell. People really should stay out until this is settled.

And there are a couple of recent logs other than the one you posted--and they are begging for it to be left alone.

 

Care to guess how long they have been caching?

 

I hate to say it, but I'm seeing a trend in how the game and guidelines are perceived by newer geocachers. And maybe it's not just newer geocachers. What I can see is a general misunderstanding about the work that was done, is done, and should be done to be sure that we can play our game--especially on managed lands.

 

When people don't even know or recognize that there is a trespass issue or permission problem with the cache, we've got a problem. ARCHIVE IT.

 

LaughterOnWater, what's done is done, and I think it would be good to log a NA yourself. The people who "won't like you" aren't people you want to like you anyway, or so it seems.

[+NeverSummer]

Interesting context here:

The HOA is the "Ashton Place Homeowners Association". That HOA is stated as having a fee of $330 for "Common Area Maintenance". Beyond that, I can't find anything other than a community-owned pool online.

 

The property maps and no trespassing signs should have been enough to archive the cache, let alone having information that the cache owner is deleting logs and told the OP that they didn't have permission.

[+narcissa]

Interesting context here:

The HOA is the "Ashton Place Homeowners Association". That HOA is stated as having a fee of $330 for "Common Area Maintenance". Beyond that, I can't find anything other than a community-owned pool online.

 

The property maps and no trespassing signs should have been enough to archive the cache, let alone having information that the cache owner is deleting logs and told the OP that they didn't have permission.

 

Oh, but then you're trampling on people's fun.

[+TheMoiety]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

Edited June 15, 2015 by TheMoiety

[knowschad]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

 

MOST reviewers have a reviewer account that is separate from their player's account, and they log their finds, often in the thousands, as the player account. Occasionally they will log an event or special cache or two as the reviewer account. People don't become reviewers by only finding one or two geocaches. Deal with it.

 

And now, to the Land Manager. His profile page says:

 

"This account is the Land Manager account for the Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge and Kachemak Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve."

 

OK... doesn't sound like much to you?

 

I Googled Kachemak Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve and found this (bolding by me), I don't know if you noticed, but that sure is a lot of acreage, isn't it?! And that is just the Kachemak Bay part!

As an estuary, Kachemak Bay is a protected bay where freshwater streams, glacial meltwater, and tidally driven ocean waters merge. The Reserve’s 372,000 acres offer a unique ecosystem where an abundance of marine plants, birds, fish, and other aquatic organisms thrive.

 

As for the Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge, according to Wikipedia:

 

The Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge (often shortened to Alaska Maritime or AMNWR) is a United States National Wildlife Refuge comprising 2,400 islands, headlands, rocks, islets, spires and reefs in Alaska, with a total area of 4.9 million acres (20,000 km²), of which 2.64 million acres (10,700 km²) is wilderness. The refuge stretches from Cape Lisburne on the Chukchi Sea to the tip of the Aleutian Islands in the west and Forrester Island in the southern Alaska Panhandle region in the east. The refuge has diverse landforms and terrains, including tundra, rainforest, cliffs, volcanoes, beaches, lakes, and streams.

 

4.9 million acres makes that 372,000 acres seem pretty tiny, doesn't it? He's the land manager of that. What do you do?

Edited June 16, 2015 by knowschad

[+SwineFlew]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

I am sure the LM got a playing account like most of the reviewers on GS.

[jholly]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

Boy talk about a persnal attack. How come you didn't flame the moderator/reviewer as bad as you flamed the land manager?

[+GeoTrekker26]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

 

I guess you didn't do any research. It is not a PERSONAL account. It is the account used by the land managers at Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge which is a part of of the U.S Fish & Wildlife Services. I bet they have tons more expertise, knowledge and certificates than someone who weighs in as R, as if we care. They certianly have more tact.

[knowschad]

[Keystone]

Thank you to all of you who've attempted to educate TheMoiety about forum etiquette, reviewers and land managers. School is over, the lesson was learned, and we can end that unfortunate tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[knowschad]

Thank you to all of you who've attempted to educate TheMoiety about forum etiquette, reviewers and land managers. School is over, the lesson was learned, and we can end that unfortunate tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

 

 

Keystone

1 Caches Found 5 Trackables Logged

 

 

 

[+SwineFlew]

Thank you to all of you who've attempted to educate TheMoiety about forum etiquette, reviewers and land managers. School is over, the lesson was learned, and we can end that unfortunate tangent. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

 

 

Keystone

1 Caches Found 5 Trackables Logged

 

 

Where is his playing account?

[+cheech gang]

Does anyone remember what the regularly scheduled discussion was?

[+narcissa]

Does anyone remember what the regularly scheduled discussion was?

 

Seems like it's been forever since there was a good bicker about ABS pipe caches.

[+SwineFlew]

Does anyone remember what the regularly scheduled discussion was?

Someone please find that kid so we can get back on schedule!

[+jwmoe1973]

Does anyone remember what the regularly scheduled discussion was?

 

Seems like it's been forever since there was a good bicker about ABS pipe caches.

 

Personally, I prefer PVC.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

 

 

I Googled Kachemak Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve and found this (bolding by me), I don't know if you noticed, but that sure is a lot of acreage, isn't it?! And that is just the Kachemak Bay part!

As an estuary, Kachemak Bay is a protected bay where freshwater streams, glacial meltwater, and tidally driven ocean waters merge. The Reserve's 372,000 acres offer a unique ecosystem where an abundance of marine plants, birds, fish, and other aquatic organisms thrive.

 

As for the Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge, according to Wikipedia:

 

The Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge (often shortened to Alaska Maritime or AMNWR) is a United States National Wildlife Refuge comprising 2,400 islands, headlands, rocks, islets, spires and reefs in Alaska, with a total area of 4.9 million acres (20,000 km²), of which 2.64 million acres (10,700 km²) is wilderness. The refuge stretches from Cape Lisburne on the Chukchi Sea to the tip of the Aleutian Islands in the west and Forrester Island in the southern Alaska Panhandle region in the east. The refuge has diverse landforms and terrains, including tundra, rainforest, cliffs, volcanoes, beaches, lakes, and streams.

 

4.9 million acres makes that 372,000 acres seem pretty tiny, doesn't it? He's the land manager of that. What do you do?

 

Let's put that into perspective. On one side we have a land manager that could implement a policy which bans geocaching from being played on 4.9 million acres. On the other we have 1 cache, hidden in brambles and goose poop that is on posted private property and placed without permission.

 

The Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge sounds like a wonderful place to go geocaching. A cache in the middle of a HOA surrounded by brambles and goose poop; not so much.

Edited June 16, 2015 by NYPaddleCacher

[+wmpastor]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

 

A year or more ago there was a thread about a cache in a hotel stairwell. Same scenario - everything was just fine for years and then a self-appointed "Nervous Nelly" cache cop get their knickers in twist. My memory is that the majority opinion was leave it alone.

 

When well-behaved cachers become aware of a business it helps the business - perhaps by immediate purchases in the restaurant or gift shop, and peraps by future purchases - including perhaps a home purchase in the community.

[knowschad]

No, IslandsandOceans doesn't look like a Cacher at all. Looks like a dilettante to me. That was my point.

 

And where is the proof that logs have been deleted? Someone with two caches makes a random comment? That is proof?

 

Yes I am a (reasonably) local Cacher but I do not know anyone involved personally. And neither does anyone involved in this conversation as far as I can tell.

 

The cache has been located in this spot for ten dadgum years with no problem and just now it is a national event?

 

A year or more ago there was a thread about a cache in a hotel stairwell. Same scenario - everything was just fine for years and then a self-appointed "Nervous Nelly" cache cop get their knickers in twist. My memory is that the majority opinion was leave it alone.

 

When well-behaved cachers become aware of a business it helps the business - perhaps by immediate purchases in the restaurant or gift shop, and peraps by future purchases - including perhaps a home purchase in the community.

 

:blink: huh?

 

Please tell me that was satire.

[+NeverSummer]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

Boy talk about a persnal attack. How come you didn't flame the moderator/reviewer as bad as you flamed the land manager?

Because it was IslandsAndOcean who posted the NA log on the cache in question, right? Had the Reviewer or another Reviewer taken action with a NA or Archived log, I'd bet they'd be the target too.

 

And it should be noted that, throughout this thread, when I put on my brown uniform and snap on my work badge, I'm a USFWS employee who helps manage geocaching activities on the Kachemak Bay Estuarine Research Reserve and Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge. As IslandsAndOcean I work in concert with refuge and reserve management on geocaching activities and permissions on our managed lands. This also includes advising them, as the only player of the game within either staff, on whether or not we should allow specific and general geocaching activities on our managed lands. In addition, I work closely with our Alaska region and the whole of the USFWS to work on policy and process for this "emerging" public land use concept.

 

So, it is a very serious consideration when I let project leads or managers know that I can't assure them with 100% confidence that Geocaching.com and geocachers can be counted on to always gain permission, or to take proper action and remove geocaches when requested to by a property owner or land manager. This means that we hang onto the perceptions that geocaching is not a compatible activity for the USFWS, and majority opinion of project leads and refuge managers and staff is that geocaching is a detriment to the lands we manage. Meaning, until we clean up our act here as players, options for geocaching on USFWS lands will be severely limited and/or banned altogether.

[+jwmoe1973]

Ohhhhh...

[+narcissa]

What is the great difficulty people seem to have understanding what happens when there is a Needs Archived log? Why is it so tremendously hard to grasp that it's the reviewer who assesses the situation, and that the person posting the log is merely drawing attention to it?

[Pup Patrol]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

Boy talk about a persnal attack. How come you didn't flame the moderator/reviewer as bad as you flamed the land manager?

Because it was IslandsAndOcean who posted the NA log on the cache in question, right? Had the Reviewer or another Reviewer taken action with a NA or Archived log, I'd bet they'd be the target too.

 

And it should be noted that, throughout this thread, when I put on my brown uniform and snap on my work badge, I'm a USFWS employee who helps manage geocaching activities on the Kachemak Bay Estuarine Research Reserve and Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge. As IslandsAndOcean I work in concert with refuge and reserve management on geocaching activities and permissions on our managed lands. This also includes advising them, as the only player of the game within either staff, on whether or not we should allow specific and general geocaching activities on our managed lands. In addition, I work closely with our Alaska region and the whole of the USFWS to work on policy and process for this "emerging" public land use concept.

 

So, it is a very serious consideration when I let project leads or managers know that I can't assure them with 100% confidence that Geocaching.com and geocachers can be counted on to always gain permission, or to take proper action and remove geocaches when requested to by a property owner or land manager. This means that we hang onto the perceptions that geocaching is not a compatible activity for the USFWS, and majority opinion of project leads and refuge managers and staff is that geocaching is a detriment to the lands we manage. Meaning, until we clean up our act here as players, options for geocaching on USFWS lands will be severely limited and/or banned altogether.

 

And there you go.

 

Thanks, NeverSummer.

 

B.

[+NeverSummer]

A different member of themoiety weighs in tonight; this is R

 

 

"One Reviewer and one Land Manager...yeah, not worthy of attention because the usernames don't have a lot of "finds" under them."

 

Yep - that's pretty much it.

 

You've flown a plane ONCE - oh, looking on from the jump seat...? Fascinated by all the pretty lights... yeah, I'm putting my luggage up top and settling in for a peaceful ride. I trust you completely. Please... guide us all.

 

Oh and folks we've got a "Land Manager"? Gosh, we're all really impressed down here. Can't wait to see your framed certificate and enameled lapel pin. Got one for crocheting, raccoon management and interpretive dance too? Cool.

 

I'm sure a self-righteous "Land Manager" with only 1 Event under their twee Abercrombie & Fitch belt is supremely qualified to properly assess a GZ they've never EVEN FREAKIN' WALKED - and never will.

 

Dear LM - find some caches - 4? 10? maybe even 32? Oh heavens you're soaring into the clouds. Get to 100 and you're ON FIRE! We will all be dim lamps unto your feet and gratefully accept what words of cache-killing wisdom you deign to grace us hot, sweaty actual cache-finding log-signing peasants with.

 

Recap: Got one Find? Your opinion is worthless - deal with it.

 

Pax out.

 

R

Boy talk about a persnal attack. How come you didn't flame the moderator/reviewer as bad as you flamed the land manager?

Because it was IslandsAndOcean who posted the NA log on the cache in question, right? Had the Reviewer or another Reviewer taken action with a NA or Archived log, I'd bet they'd be the target too.

 

And it should be noted that, throughout this thread, when I put on my brown uniform and snap on my work badge, I'm a USFWS employee who helps manage geocaching activities on the Kachemak Bay Estuarine Research Reserve and Alaska Maritime National Wildlife Refuge. As IslandsAndOcean I work in concert with refuge and reserve management on geocaching activities and permissions on our managed lands. This also includes advising them, as the only player of the game within either staff, on whether or not we should allow specific and general geocaching activities on our managed lands. In addition, I work closely with our Alaska region and the whole of the USFWS to work on policy and process for this "emerging" public land use concept.

 

So, it is a very serious consideration when I let project leads or managers know that I can't assure them with 100% confidence that Geocaching.com and geocachers can be counted on to always gain permission, or to take proper action and remove geocaches when requested to by a property owner or land manager. This means that we hang onto the perceptions that geocaching is not a compatible activity for the USFWS, and majority opinion of project leads and refuge managers and staff is that geocaching is a detriment to the lands we manage. Meaning, until we clean up our act here as players, options for geocaching on USFWS lands will be severely limited and/or banned altogether.

 

And there you go.

 

Thanks, NeverSummer.

 

B.

You're welcome.

 

I'll just add, as I'm posting as "just another guy" in this account, that it really wouldn't bode too well to present to those who make land management decisions about geocaching on those lands a clear-as-a-bell example of a cache that didn't get permission, let alone the attitudes of many geocachers who think it's not a big deal.

 

There are very clear, serious implications when people disregard the guidelines and choose to be offensive, abrasive, or irresponsible with their geocaching activities. (And that goes double for me, too...)

 

We really shouldn't forget that how we self-police this game is the most clear representation of how we can be a "responsible" user group on public lands. If we can't maintain geocaches as required, use reporting tools responsibly, consistently, or honestly, or see action by Groundspeak or their Volunteer Reviewers when there is an issue brought to their attention, it sends a much clearer message to land managers than we all think. The days of this game flying under the radar are long gone.