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Colorado Geo-Art to be Archived...

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I came across this on Facebook and thought I'd share. I didn't know it was such an issue out there to be totally pulled. It looked incredibly awesome and I wish I could have done some or all of it.

 

That said, they ask that no one go after it right now.

 

Is this going to happen more frequently, since geo-art is becoming more popular? :unsure:

 

OFFICIAL BOARD POSTING:

 

Regrettably the Geocaching Colorado Board has decided it is time to archive the Colorado GeoArt. When it first published, we were able to work with locals to appease their concerns. We explained that the icons on the map were not where the caches were and all physical placements were on public roads. This was good enough for most of them. When that explanation didn’t satisfy others, we moved the finals elsewhere further from their lands. After we did all this; all was well. People were doing the GeoArt and having fun and good experiences. Those times have passed…

 

This year there have been too many negative instances that are progressively getting worse. We have to have safety be the number one concern and cannot, in good conscience, send people out there when death threats are being made. Even though the containers are on public roads, and death threats are illegal, it is not worth the risk. We thank all those who put in so many hours to make this artwork, and those who have put in so much work in finding these caches. We have enjoyed your stories and photos. We appreciate the help of all those who assisted with maintenance. Between rains, winds, critters, and angry muggles; it has been a hefty task.

 

We realize there are cachers who have solved the puzzles, and not made it out to the art yet. We also understand there are those who have made travel arrangements already. We are truly sorry, but your safety is our number one priority. We know how frustrating this decision is for everyone involved. If you are already coming out, we have some great recommendations for alternative caching goals (that will be fun and no risk to you): South Park Geotour, Across the Divide Geotour, and the Denver Public Library Series (there is a cache in all 26 libraries in Denver). There are also many great caches spread throughout the area. Find us on Geocaching Colorado’s Facebook page for more suggestions if you’d like.

 

CoinsAndPins also has Colorado GeoArt Geocoins, go there to grab your piece of history before they are gone. We are more than happy to help you find alternatives on your trip to Colorado. While it lasted, it was great for the local economy via food, lodging and fuel. Many of the locals realized this and welcomed it. Thanks for playing, and sorry the voices of the few ruin it for the many.

 

~ Colorado GeoArt Team

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I don't think Geo-Art is the problem, it is more the number of caches and the area. This looks like a rural farming area. People live there; and they probably aren't used to a lot of visitors. Now there is a 1000+ cache power trail, bringing visitors, and they are being noticed, and they locals don't like it. I am not justifying their behaviour, but caches (especially large numbers of them) in a remote but populated area increase the chances of this kind of thing happening. There was a recent thread about caches in a semi-deserted development in Florida. That was smaller in scale, but a similar thing... locals not used to seeing people around not liking it one bit.

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I can agree to that. I just wouldn't have imagined the negative reaction would get that bad...

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I agree too. What is surprising reading some of the logs is these caches are over a wide area (60 miles by 60 miles), and cachers report angry encounters "throughout" the series. So it's not just one or 2 disgruntled locals.

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I'd be curious what they are counting as "death threats". Are these just people saying "I have a shotgun and I'm not afraid to use it on anyone who trespasses on my property"? That's a far cry from saying "I'm going to kill the people who put these caches out".

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This doesn't surprise me at all. Having these kinds of things where people live is just never a good idea. It gives geocaching a very bad name.

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I've been on the fence about geoart and power trails, but this is enough to put firmly on the side of not allowing them. Even the ET trail that I did part of--maybe nobody lives there, but people running back and forth across the landscape, even it's only 50 feet, isn't good for the desert environment. I'm starting to feel like power trails where people live makes us poor neighbors, and power trails in the desert are tough on the landscape, especially those people walk in some ways--people are digging trails into the topsoil, such as it is.

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I don't think Geo-Art is the problem, it is more the number of caches and the area. This looks like a rural farming area. People live there; and they probably aren't used to a lot of visitors. Now there is a 1000+ cache power trail, bringing visitors, and they are being noticed, and they locals don't like it. I am not justifying their behaviour, but caches (especially large numbers of them) in a remote but populated area increase the chances of this kind of thing happening. There was a recent thread about caches in a semi deserted development in Florida. That was smaller in scale, but a similar thing... locals not used to seeing people around not liking it one bit.

 

There was also the disgruntled land owner near Red Bluff that expressed concerns about the safety of using the narrow rural roads (without room to pull off the side of the road) after a 90 cache series was placed there.

 

This is becoming an all too frequent problem, yet you can bet that someone is going to respond here with "if you don't like them, you can ignore them" and blame the local residents for the problem.

 

 

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As for me personally, I am mixed. While I do feel that unfavorable incidents with local landowners and residents are becoming more and more common and that is not a good thing at all, I have to say I really love doing them as well.

 

This is becoming an all too frequent problem, yet you can bet that someone is going to respond here with "if you don't like them, you can ignore them" and blame the local residents for the problem.

 

Very, very true. Problem is, me, you or Tom down the road not doing them does not negate the problems caused by Jed, Elly May and Jethro doing the trail and running into irate landowners. In this case, "ignore them" is not a viable option.

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The way Geocaching is structured this is bound to happen. Numbers over quality, disregard of public opinion and destruction of the environment is occurring at an increasing rate. The numbers game is not only about caches, but about the large number of inexperienced and ignorant new cachers who are now in abundance. Add to them the numbers hounds and you get this. Groundspeak should set standards to be met before new cachers be allowed to hide caches. Caches should not be placed just because they can be. Instances like this and the fiasco near Ocala, Florida can and should be avoided. If these problems are not reined in, geocaching as we know it will not survive in the long run.

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The way Geocaching is structured this is bound to happen. Numbers over quality, disregard of public opinion and destruction of the environment is occurring at an increasing rate. The numbers game is not only about caches, but about the large number of inexperienced and ignorant new cachers who are now in abundance. Add to them the numbers hounds and you get this. Groundspeak should set standards to be met before new cachers be allowed to hide caches. Caches should not be placed just because they can be. Instances like this and the fiasco near Ocala, Florida can and should be avoided. If these problems are not reined in, geocaching as we know it will not survive in the long run.

The problem is just not the geo-art and power trails, it is caches period. Many single caches had to be archived because of irate neighbors. The only sure fire way to prevent these problems is to put a moratorium on all cache placements.

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This is a very rural area where many of the roads are only used by the local farmers and their guests. In an area such as this, any increase of traffic is noticed. This was not a power trail, the caches were spread over a wide area and were mostly puzzle caches. About 100 people logged them all over the course of the year and many of those traveled in groups. There was a lot of support from the locals, but not everybody.This GeoArt was spread out over nearly 4000 square miles (that isn't a misprint) to prevent this from becoming a 'power trail'.

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The way Geocaching is structured this is bound to happen. Numbers over quality, disregard of public opinion and destruction of the environment is occurring at an increasing rate. The numbers game is not only about caches, but about the large number of inexperienced and ignorant new cachers who are now in abundance. Add to them the numbers hounds and you get this. Groundspeak should set standards to be met before new cachers be allowed to hide caches. Caches should not be placed just because they can be. Instances like this and the fiasco near Ocala, Florida can and should be avoided. If these problems are not reined in, geocaching as we know it will not survive in the long run.

What was the fiasco near Ocala, Florida?

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The way Geocaching is structured this is bound to happen. Numbers over quality, disregard of public opinion and destruction of the environment is occurring at an increasing rate. The numbers game is not only about caches, but about the large number of inexperienced and ignorant new cachers who are now in abundance. Add to them the numbers hounds and you get this. Groundspeak should set standards to be met before new cachers be allowed to hide caches. Caches should not be placed just because they can be. Instances like this and the fiasco near Ocala, Florida can and should be avoided. If these problems are not reined in, geocaching as we know it will not survive in the long run.

What was the fiasco near Ocala, Florida?

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=331802

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1432049776[/url]' post='5506348']

Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

 

I was shocked to read this part of the log

We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out. Threatening signs are being put up.

He writes that the neighbours are angry, removing caches and leaving angry notes (which includes expletives) but they throw down 300 containers to replace the caches removed by angry property owners. Wow! Gives power caching a bad name yet again.

Edited by L0ne.R

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This is a very rural area where many of the roads are only used by the local farmers and their guests. In an area such as this, any increase of traffic is noticed. This was not a power trail, the caches were spread over a wide area and were mostly puzzle caches. About 100 people logged them all over the course of the year and many of those traveled in groups. There was a lot of support from the locals, but not everybody.This GeoArt was spread out over nearly 4000 square miles (that isn't a misprint) to prevent this from becoming a 'power trail'.

Not only that, but the Geocaching Colorado board and the cachers who placed the GeoArt did have positive relationships with most of the residents, and there were a few instances where caches were relocated further away from angry locals. My perception of the issue is that over the course of the year since these caches were activated, the few angry ones got their neighbors riled up against caching, and that's what ultimately caused death threats and the caches to be archived.

 

That being said, this is a very rural area and apparently some of the roads are leased to the county by the farmers, so in a sense there were some areas of the art that were on the farmer's property even though the physical cache was outside their fences, which may not have been realized at the time of placement as they appeared to be public propery. After seeing some of the notes and hearing some of the stories of vandalism that have occurred, I would be very leery of setting up any caches in rural areas like this without making sure EVERY resident was fully on-board with the initiative, which GCCO tried to do here and ultimately failed.

 

My biggest hope is that cachers reading this from out of state don't think this reflects on the caching experience as a whole in Colorado. We have two wonderful Geotrails in our state which are run by the counties/parks in which they are located, many fantastic mystery caches, and a very large and vibrant community - and we love meeting people from outside our borders!

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1432049776[/url]' post='5506348']

Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

 

I was shocked to read this part of the log

We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out. Threatening signs are being put up.

He writes that the neighbours are angry, removing caches and leaving angry notes (which includes expletives) but they throw down 300 containers to replace the caches removed by angry property owners. Wow! Gives power caching a bad name yet again.

This is madness. Are numbers really that important that it's worth to upset the neighbours further and let the following cachers enjoy the full experience?

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The main problem is with the people of Colorado. The land is treated as GOLD, trespassers will be shot!

In that state you may not even stand in a river that flows through property. Some roads do travel through private property.

You may find a gate across the road, hey it is a public road. Almost but not quite some roads are gated and you may only drive through after closing the gat behind you.

some roads go through private property, no gate. You may not stop at all. I have read of people getting arrested at gun point while fishing in public waters on private land.

In general the land owners are like little two year olds out there. I have said that to the Colorado DNR.

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Ranchers by nature don't like strangers around their property and I don't blame them for being upset with an activity that brings troves of strangers to their livelihood. I'm reading more about this going on in other parts of the country thanks to the saturation of caches through power trails. I see nothing but trouble ahead as more power trails are added in rural areas. I live in a ranching community where a few caches are on the perimeter of ranches and have no plans to dig around the bushes on the other side of a rancher's property (not a good idea). If power trails are going to continue, make sure they are away from populated areas.

Edited by TahoeJoe

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Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

I was shocked to read this part of the log

 

We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out. Threatening signs are being put up.

He writes that the neighbours are angry, removing caches and leaving angry notes (which includes expletives) but they throw down 300 containers to replace the caches removed by angry property owners. Wow! Gives power caching a bad name yet again.

Not only that, but of the 1,005 geo-art caches, they "found 1013 caches (a few extra that we passed along while finding the GCCO's.)"

 

That certainly gives the impression that, after they ran out of throwdowns, they also "found" the missing caches that they didn't replace.

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Ranchers by nature don't like strangers around their property and I don't blame them for being upset with an activity that brings troves of strangers to their livelihood. I'm reading more about this going on in other parts of the country thanks to the saturation of caches through power trails. I see nothing but trouble ahead as more power trails are added in rural areas. I live in a ranching community where a few caches are on the perimeter of ranches and have no plans to dig around the bushes on the other side of a rancher's property (not a good idea). If power trails are going to continue, make sure they are away from populated areas.

Seems to me that the CO art was pretty much away from populated areas. Or were you referring to the vast stretches of BLM land in Nevada and Idaho?

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Ranchers by nature don't like strangers around their property and I don't blame them for being upset with an activity that brings troves of strangers to their livelihood. I'm reading more about this going on in other parts of the country thanks to the saturation of caches through power trails. I see nothing but trouble ahead as more power trails are added in rural areas. I live in a ranching community where a few caches are on the perimeter of ranches and have no plans to dig around the bushes on the other side of a rancher's property (not a good idea). If power trails are going to continue, make sure they are away from populated areas.

Seems to me that the CO art was pretty much away from populated areas. Or were you referring to the vast stretches of BLM land in Nevada and Idaho?

I was looking at the satellite image of the cache location and it looks like it's located is in an agriculture area. 160 log visits in a year and a half is quite a few strangers in a community with a population of 3,524. Seems pretty remote but apparently from the logs it's upsetting some locals who don’t care for geocaching. Who knows, maybe someone geocaching did something to upset a local. I think it’s smart decision to archive the cache before someone got hurt.

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Ranchers by nature don't like strangers around their property and I don't blame them for being upset with an activity that brings troves of strangers to their livelihood. I'm reading more about this going on in other parts of the country thanks to the saturation of caches through power trails. I see nothing but trouble ahead as more power trails are added in rural areas. I live in a ranching community where a few caches are on the perimeter of ranches and have no plans to dig around the bushes on the other side of a rancher's property (not a good idea). If power trails are going to continue, make sure they are away from populated areas.

Seems to me that the CO art was pretty much away from populated areas. Or were you referring to the vast stretches of BLM land in Nevada and Idaho?

I was looking at the satellite image of the cache location and it looks like it's located is in an agriculture area. 160 log visits in a year and a half is quite a few strangers in a community with a population of 3,524. Seems pretty remote but apparently from the logs it's upsetting some locals who don’t care for geocaching. Who knows, maybe someone geocaching did something to upset a local. I think it’s smart decision to archive the cache before someone got hurt.

The thing is you need to quantify what a populated area is. Is it vast wheat fields with a house every couple miles? Or is it a area where nothing can be seen for miles and miles? Someone in this thread said the area covered by the art was 4,000 square miles. 3,500 folks in this area is pretty sparsely populated. Even if it was just 20 square miles that is still pretty sparse populations.

 

Probably what upset the locals was they were convinced these folks in the shiny cars were out there to steal their tractors, shoot their cows or steal thier diesel.

 

Yeah with the local being upset archive is probably the best route.

Edited by jholly

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Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

 

Wow...that's just nuts!

Well...and where were the caches hidden? On a fence post? On the guard rail? :unsure:

 

This looks and sounds to me more like these caches weren't really that well thought out. Found an open road (geocachely-speaking) and placed as many caches as possible for a power trail. If the owner wasn't going to plan on maintaining their own caches when they placed them, people aren't going to log a NM or NA on the cache--they'll place throwdowns and keep trying for the 1000-cache outing.

 

This is a perfect example of cache ownership and use of proper log types. If a cache is in a "problem area" like a homeless camp or on a piece of private property, that cache usually will get a NM or NA log and get "taken care of" by the owner or the Reviewer. When you have a power trail that won't be properly maintained or dealt with when problems arise, we see this kind of black mark on the game we all like to play.

 

Archive them unceremoniously and move on. There's nothing to see here.

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Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

I was shocked to read this part of the log

 

We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out. Threatening signs are being put up.

He writes that the neighbours are angry, removing caches and leaving angry notes (which includes expletives) but they throw down 300 containers to replace the caches removed by angry property owners. Wow! Gives power caching a bad name yet again.

Not only that, but of the 1,005 geo-art caches, they "found 1013 caches (a few extra that we passed along while finding the GCCO's.)"

 

That certainly gives the impression that, after they ran out of throwdowns, they also "found" the missing caches that they didn't replace.

Really? That's what bothers you?

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I think this is a pretty clear example outlining the fact that just because some place is "public" doesn't make it a good place for a cache. Yes, I know that's not exactly earth shattering news but that seems to be a pretty constant mindset for those publishing these power trails. Hey, it's a public road so I can place 1000 caches along it!

 

Even before getting the caches published, they knew about the push back from the locals...and went ahead and published them anyway and now they reap what they sow. I'm certainly not advocating death threats, as those are stupid and should not be tolerated, but maybe, just maybe, a little thought will be used the next time someone has the bright idea to shotgun caches around the countryside just because it's a public space.

 

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As for me personally, I am mixed. While I do feel that unfavorable incidents with local landowners and residents are becoming more and more common and that is not a good thing at all, I have to say I really love doing them as well.

 

This is becoming an all too frequent problem, yet you can bet that someone is going to respond here with "if you don't like them, you can ignore them" and blame the local residents for the problem.

 

Very, very true. Problem is, me, you or Tom down the road not doing them does not negate the problems caused by Jed, Elly May and Jethro doing the trail and running into irate landowners. In this case, "ignore them" is not a viable option.

 

That was my point...though *I* might do a power trail if I was doing it with Elly May. "Ignore them" isn't a viable option in many cases. If a certain type of caching is causing problem, ignoring that type of caching doesn't make the problems go away.

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As for me personally, I am mixed. While I do feel that unfavorable incidents with local landowners and residents are becoming more and more common and that is not a good thing at all, I have to say I really love doing them as well.

 

This is becoming an all too frequent problem, yet you can bet that someone is going to respond here with "if you don't like them, you can ignore them" and blame the local residents for the problem.

 

Very, very true. Problem is, me, you or Tom down the road not doing them does not negate the problems caused by Jed, Elly May and Jethro doing the trail and running into irate landowners. In this case, "ignore them" is not a viable option.

 

That was my point...though *I* might do a power trail if I was doing it with Elly May. "Ignore them" isn't a viable option in many cases. If a certain type of caching is causing problem, ignoring that type of caching doesn't make the problems go away.

 

Indeed, sir.

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I can agree to that. I just wouldn't have imagined the negative reaction would get that bad...

Some of that land has probably been in the families for generations. It may not legally be theirs, but you can bet that they feel ownership, and resent outsiders coming in and invading their privacy. They don't live way out there because they love company.

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Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

 

The local farmers and ranchers despise these caches being here. We were stopped in our tracks more than once by locals who wanted us gone. They told us that all the caches were supposed to have been removed and that they had 'called people' to make that happen. We were told that we were trespassing, even though we were only on the roads and never in the fields. The caches are being stolen, vandalized and threatening messages put in them. We found vulgar stickers left in place of where caches used to be. We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out.

 

:blink: You are getting stopped by the locals and told to leave, caches are being stolen, vulgar stickers left in their stead, and you REPLACE THEM? Well, THERE is your problem! :unsure:

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Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

 

The local farmers and ranchers despise these caches being here. We were stopped in our tracks more than once by locals who wanted us gone. They told us that all the caches were supposed to have been removed and that they had 'called people' to make that happen. We were told that we were trespassing, even though we were only on the roads and never in the fields. The caches are being stolen, vandalized and threatening messages put in them. We found vulgar stickers left in place of where caches used to be. We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out.

 

:blink: You are getting stopped by the locals and told to leave, caches are being stolen, vulgar stickers left in their stead, and you REPLACE THEM? Well, THERE is your problem! :unsure:

+1

Fuel to the fire.

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The main problem is with the people of Colorado. The land is treated as GOLD, trespassers will be shot!

In that state you may not even stand in a river that flows through property. Some roads do travel through private property.

You may find a gate across the road, hey it is a public road. Almost but not quite some roads are gated and you may only drive through after closing the gat behind you.

some roads go through private property, no gate. You may not stop at all. I have read of people getting arrested at gun point while fishing in public waters on private land.

In general the land owners are like little two year olds out there. I have said that to the Colorado DNR.

 

It doesn't take too many times of some idiot cutting a fence, driving through a crop, driving on a private lane (especially when muddy), shooting up equipment, leaving trash everywhere, theft, and just disrespecting private property in general to make people hyper sensitive to what strangers are doing in the area. The land should be treated like gold, have your tried to buy any? If you come to a gate that is closed you close it after you go through, private or public land. It is there for a reason. How would you like to have to drive the cattle (that are not always visible from the gate) back to where they belong each time someone who doesn't know better goes through. The land owners (who act like two year olds) could just as easily be saying folks from the city sure have a huge sense of entitlement to what I bought and paid for, and continue to pay property tax on.

 

It may not be geocachers who caused the problem, but I certainly understand their concerns.

Edited by Coldnosed

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The way Geocaching is structured this is bound to happen. Numbers over quality, disregard of public opinion and destruction of the environment is occurring at an increasing rate. The numbers game is not only about caches, but about the large number of inexperienced and ignorant new cachers who are now in abundance. Add to them the numbers hounds and you get this. Groundspeak should set standards to be met before new cachers be allowed to hide caches. Caches should not be placed just because they can be. Instances like this and the fiasco near Ocala, Florida can and should be avoided. If these problems are not reined in, geocaching as we know it will not survive in the long run.

The problem is just not the geo-art and power trails, it is caches period. Many single caches had to be archived because of irate neighbors. The only sure fire way to prevent these problems is to put a moratorium on all cache placements.

 

I don't recall problems of this magnitude in the "old days" when we were told to not hide a cache every 528' just because we could. We have seen problems of this magnitude repeatedly since. However, I think the horse it out of the barn, and probably won't be getting her back in.

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This is a very rural area where many of the roads are only used by the local farmers and their guests. In an area such as this, any increase of traffic is noticed. This was not a power trail, the caches were spread over a wide area and were mostly puzzle caches. About 100 people logged them all over the course of the year and many of those traveled in groups. There was a lot of support from the locals, but not everybody.This GeoArt was spread out over nearly 4000 square miles (that isn't a misprint) to prevent this from becoming a 'power trail'.

Not only that, but the Geocaching Colorado board and the cachers who placed the GeoArt did have positive relationships with most of the residents, and there were a few instances where caches were relocated further away from angry locals. My perception of the issue is that over the course of the year since these caches were activated, the few angry ones got their neighbors riled up against caching, and that's what ultimately caused death threats and the caches to be archived.

 

That being said, this is a very rural area and apparently some of the roads are leased to the county by the farmers, so in a sense there were some areas of the art that were on the farmer's property even though the physical cache was outside their fences, which may not have been realized at the time of placement as they appeared to be public propery. After seeing some of the notes and hearing some of the stories of vandalism that have occurred, I would be very leery of setting up any caches in rural areas like this without making sure EVERY resident was fully on-board with the initiative, which GCCO tried to do here and ultimately failed.

 

My biggest hope is that cachers reading this from out of state don't think this reflects on the caching experience as a whole in Colorado. We have two wonderful Geotrails in our state which are run by the counties/parks in which they are located, many fantastic mystery caches, and a very large and vibrant community - and we love meeting people from outside our borders!

 

Can you guys explain just how the Geocaching Colorado Board determined that it was "good enough for most of them"? Did they hold town meetings and take polls? Did they take out ads in the local newspapers? Send out mass mailings?

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Here is the link to the log that did it -- which has photos.

 

Log with pics

 

I was shocked to read this part of the log

We replaced approximately 300 missing containers until we ran out. Threatening signs are being put up.

He writes that the neighbours are angry, removing caches and leaving angry notes (which includes expletives) but they throw down 300 containers to replace the caches removed by angry property owners. Wow! Gives power caching a bad name yet again.

 

I had the very same thought.

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Well... well... well... I was counting on this to happen. Powertrail bring people... MANY PEOPLE and I will say it again...many many many people...

 

Guys...dont be in denial... major powertail is BAD news and I feel GS needs to ban them. Who cares of being the top 50 cachers in the world... Stop feeding the power cachers. They are the one that making us look bad.

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The main problem is with the people of Colorado. The land is treated as GOLD, trespassers will be shot!

In that state you may not even stand in a river that flows through property. Some roads do travel through private property.

You may find a gate across the road, hey it is a public road. Almost but not quite some roads are gated and you may only drive through after closing the gat behind you.

some roads go through private property, no gate. You may not stop at all. I have read of people getting arrested at gun point while fishing in public waters on private land.

In general the land owners are like little two year olds out there. I have said that to the Colorado DNR.

 

It doesn't take too many times of some idiot cutting a fence, driving through a crop, driving on a private lane (especially when muddy), shooting up equipment, leaving trash everywhere, theft, and just disrespecting private property in general to make people hyper sensitive to what strangers are doing in the area. The land should be treated like gold, have your tried to buy any? If you come to a gate that is closed you close it after you go through, private or public land. It is there for a reason. How would you like to have to drive the cattle (that are not always visible from the gate) back to where they belong each time someone who doesn't know better goes through. The land owners (who act like two year olds) could just as easily be saying folks from the city sure have a huge sense of entitlement to what I bought and paid for, and continue to pay property tax on.

 

It may not be geocachers who caused the problem, but I certainly understand their concerns.

 

Thank you. I agree. As I said in another post, some of that land has been in the family for generations. The land is a family heirloom, essentially, and they feel very protective of it. To call then "two year olds" because of that is pretty callous, at best. To them, you are an outsider, and they have a natural disdain for outsiders... and that disdain goes a long way back. You are on their property, whether it is legally theirs or not.

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Groundspeak needs to stop publishing power trails. They are giving caching a bad name.

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Groundspeak needs to stop publishing power trails.
So what changes to the guidelines would eliminate them, without causing the volunteer reviewers undue headaches?

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Groundspeak needs to stop publishing power trails.
So what changes to the guidelines would eliminate them, without causing the volunteer reviewers undue headaches?

 

Go back to the old guideline/statement/ideal that was in place when I started caching back in 2006...

 

Don't hide a cache every 528' just because you can. If such a situation arises, a reviewer might request you to make it a multi-cache instead of a string of caches.

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A hobby like geocaching needs to have the good will of our neighbors, if it loses that, it's in real trouble. Situations like this don't create good will--GS should stop publishing them.

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Groundspeak needs to stop publishing power trails.
So what changes to the guidelines would eliminate them, without causing the volunteer reviewers undue headaches?

 

1) You MUST maintain your own caches. Stating or implying on the cache page that others may assist you in that will not be tolerated.

2) Stating on your cache page that Three Cache Monte is acceptable will not be tolerated.

3) Throwdowns are not allowed, even if the cache page says they are. Your log can be deleted for that.

4) Reinstate the wording "Just because you can hide a cache every 528 feet does not mean that you should."

 

That would be a good start, at least.

 

I used the word "reinstate" only on #4, but really, it could be used just as well on the first three, too. Those things never used to be considered acceptable, but permissiveness prevailed, and we are now seeing the results.

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Groundspeak needs to stop publishing power trails.
So what changes to the guidelines would eliminate them, without causing the volunteer reviewers undue headaches?

 

1) You MUST maintain your own caches. Stating or implying on the cache page that others may assist you in that will not be tolerated.

2) Stating on your cache page that Three Cache Monte is acceptable will not be tolerated.

3) Throwdowns are not allowed, even if the cache page says they are. Your log can be deleted for that.

4) Reinstate the wording "Just because you can hide a cache every 528 feet does not mean that you should."

 

That would be a good start, at least.

 

I used the word "reinstate" only on #4, but really, it could be used just as well on the first three, too. Those things never used to be considered acceptable, but permissiveness prevailed, and we are now seeing the results.

 

+1

 

Good ideas, all!

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Groundspeak needs to stop publishing power trails.
So what changes to the guidelines would eliminate them, without causing the volunteer reviewers undue headaches?

 

Go back to the old guideline/statement/ideal that was in place when I started caching back in 2006...

 

Don't hide a cache every 528' just because you can. If such a situation arises, a reviewer might request you to make it a multi-cache instead of a string of caches.

 

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And I really don't think they are good for the desert, either. Bad for the environment, bad public relations--what's the upside?

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And I really don't think they are good for the desert, either. Bad for the environment, bad public relations--what's the upside?

 

Numbers for people who like numbers. That's it.

 

Not much of an upside, I know, but that's all I can think of...

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The need for a 12-month moratorium on challenges pales in comparison to this. Let's see a 12-month moratorium on art and power trails.

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Guys...dont be in denial... major powertail is BAD news and I feel GS needs to ban them. Who cares of being the top 50 cachers in the world... Stop feeding the power cachers. They are the one that making us look bad.

 

There used to be a power trail guideline. It will be hard to get it back, I'm afraid. Too many people enjoy hopping in and out of their car every 528 feet. Though I'd hate for our game to become an all about the numbers game like that parking lot sticker defacement game.

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