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False Discoveries - This is getting old!

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I don't think they should be eliminated as well, especially when you consider the fact that for the most part they are used properly and do serve a purpose.

If you truly have the impression that most discovery logs serve a purpose this can only refer to the purpose to increase the number of logged travellers or number if icons for the logger.

I guess alone the discovery logs which happen during or after :rolleyes: events will account for the vast majority of all discovery logs. And don't tell me you have seen more than a handfull of those which serves a purpose for the owner].

I remember that around when you started, folks were already griping in these forums about trackables at events.

- Though at the time, in this area, they were still being Discovered with the Owner present.

I believe this problem is regional, more than standard everywhere, and that most Discover logs support that.

We'd still Discover trackables we can't take with us, as we've always done (Owners here appreciate it) , if there was one in a cache anymore... :)

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I haven't run into the problem yet...

 

 

Dang! I've got the problem now. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

Getting French and German discovered logs on a trackable in my collection. This particular trackable is a micro-geocoin in the shape of the symbol for a multi-cache. I have one for each type of cache I have found. I drilled holes in them, and sewed them to my hat. Kind of a trophy/bragging hat. The code is on the back side, and is not visible. The only way to get the code is to ask me for it. Being as I rarely attend events, no one has ever asked me for it.

 

Obviously, it was logged by someone trying all possible combinations, and getting lucky. Now it's on a list somewhere. Looks like I'm going to have to lock it now.

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Here's my solution to the lying "discovery" logs : as far as I can see, the only motivation is to increase the number of trackables recorded on the cachers profile, yes ?

So, keep the various trackable log types, but simply eliminate 'discovered' logs from the count.

 

That way folk who meet a TO, or see an interesting item, can record that event. Cachers who want to leave an informative log saying 'it's in the listed cache but I didn't move it on' can do so.

 

I can't see any negatives for the trackable owners in this, or for anyone else apart from the virtual/lying loggers, but I'm sure I've missed something obvious ....

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Here's my solution to the lying "discovery" logs : as far as I can see, the only motivation is to increase the number of trackables recorded on the cachers profile, yes ?

So, keep the various trackable log types, but simply eliminate 'discovered' logs from the count.

One could make the same argument to advocate not counting caches in order to prevent armchair finds.

 

I'm not really convinced the count is the motivation, anyway. I think the motivation is often the more general "I've discovered a lot!" independent of whether there's a count for other people to see.

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Here's my solution to the lying "discovery" logs : as far as I can see, the only motivation is to increase the number of trackables recorded on the cachers profile, yes ?

So, keep the various trackable log types, but simply eliminate 'discovered' logs from the count.

One could make the same argument to advocate not counting caches in order to prevent armchair finds.

Yep. :)

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Here's my solution to the lying "discovery" logs : as far as I can see, the only motivation is to increase the number of trackables recorded on the cachers profile, yes ?

No.

Your generalization assumes that everyone plays the numbers game.

 

There's many honest reasons for a Discover log, most have already been explained here...

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Hii Guys,

My first reaction and I'm sad to say it's a bad one.
I have 2 TB's that are on 2 different backpacks and therefore the TB's can only to be discovered when both the backpacks are on our geocachetour/trail.
But for the last 4 mounth's they are being discovered at the same time! And I find out how!

I live in Belgium, but not to far away from the Dutch border. There is a Dutch guy who puts over 1800 TB's on a list to discover them and he even gives you the opportunity to do them all at once!

Please HQ, can you take down the site? He is called Barny. His site: [Link removed by moderator]

PLEASE TAKE THIS SITE DOWN AND BANN THE GUY FROM PARTICIPATING ON GEOCACHING.COM.

Thanks for listening and hoping for a possitive reaction,
yours sincerely

Anseldelux.

 

Edited by Keystone
removed link

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I removed the link so as not to call further attention to the website that Anseldelux posted about.

Geocaching.com can regulate the use of their own website, but "taking down" some other website is a different matter entirely.

Experience has shown that banning one account leads to opening multiple sock puppet accounts.  It's a hard problem to solve.

You can read Geocaching HQ's take on this problem by reading the Help Center article on Bogus Trackable Logs.  Follow the recommendation to delete the bogus discoveries, and consider locking your trackables for awhile.  If you encounter a geocacher on the trail, you can unlock the page temporarily to permit logging.

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I have a trackable on my watchlist that is "discovered" by lots of people. Turns out an event organizer has posted an announcement on his event page with a list of all trackables codes of trackables that somehow were at the event and for convenience added the link to the project-gc website where you can easily log then all at once.

Besides that I think it's sad that geocachers seem to find it normal/fun to discover codes instead of trackables, such an annoucement is the same as sharing the 'secret' tracking code with the whole world, since everyone can see it on the event page. 

But what can be done to correct this and what can be done to prevent this to happen in the future with other events?

 

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5 hours ago, irisisleuk said:

I have a trackable on my watchlist that is "discovered" by lots of people. Turns out an event organizer has posted an announcement on his event page with a list of all trackables codes of trackables that somehow were at the event and for convenience added the link to the project-gc website where you can easily log then all at once.

Besides that I think it's sad that geocachers seem to find it normal/fun to discover codes instead of trackables, such an annoucement is the same as sharing the 'secret' tracking code with the whole world, since everyone can see it on the event page. 

But what can be done to correct this and what can be done to prevent this to happen in the future with other events?

As annoying and dumb I find large scale, impersonal discovers, and as much as I think the attitude behind them is misguided, I can't say this needs to be corrected, and I definitely don't think it's reasonable to try to prevent it. It's easy to see how such lists can encourage logging of TBs that weren't at the event by people that weren't at the event, but I'm only a little more annoyed by that then by mass logging of TBs that were at the event by people that were also at the event. That case would be perfectly "legal" and I don't think there's any chance of it being forbidden, but I still consider it equally inaccurate to claim a discovery when you never saw the coin. As you say, it mistakes the TB code for the TB itself.

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1 hour ago, dprovan said:

As annoying and dumb I find large scale, impersonal discovers, and as much as I think the attitude behind them is misguided, I can't say this needs to be corrected, and I definitely don't think it's reasonable to try to prevent it. It's easy to see how such lists can encourage logging of TBs that weren't at the event by people that weren't at the event, but I'm only a little more annoyed by that then by mass logging of TBs that were at the event by people that were also at the event. That case would be perfectly "legal" and I don't think there's any chance of it being forbidden, but I still consider it equally inaccurate to claim a discovery when you never saw the coin. As you say, it mistakes the TB code for the TB itself.

So that all the tracking codes are now visibile on the event page, in one of the announcements, visible to everyone who visits this page, is fine with you?

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I saw a TB when logging the bonus of a series of multi's lately (the CO's car) and when logging the caches I wanted to log the TB too but the listing was locked. I contacted the owner and they said they locked the listing because the tracking code made it onto a list and they were getting a lot of fake logs. We arranged a timeframe and they unlocked the listing so I could log. Minutes after I logged the TB the listing was locked again.

I don't think this is the way it should be but with all the armchair logging I'm not surprised. Maybe, if CO/TO's would aggressively delete fake logs things would get better but as long as many just don't care/bother I think it will only get worse.

 

 

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1 hour ago, irisisleuk said:

So that all the tracking codes are now visibile on the event page, in one of the announcements, visible to everyone who visits this page, is fine with you?

What I said was I don't see any reason to see it as being any worse than posting the tracking codes in a way that only people at the event could see them. I thought I was pretty clear about saying I'm not OK with either of them.

The point being that we need to discourage event owners from doing it in either case.

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Here's an interesting exchange I recently had with someone who logged a few discoveries on TBS we released in 2005 and 2006, that have been missing since 2007.  Curious if they had actually re-appeared, we contacted the logger to inquire as two what the back story.  Below is the resulting conversation:

  • fcdc5dae-ca7b-4c23-a198-2820ada32a8b.jpg

    Anberta Aug 23, 2017 6:14 AM

    Hi Zekester & Simon,
    i found an old list from my friend and i log the TBs... I don't really seen the TBs, but i log them...
    If you don't like, I apologize for the inconvenience, delete my log.
    Thanks for for comprehension.
    Anberta
  • da632891-00ec-4b57-bcfe-d9f04cd01e95.jpg

    You Aug 23, 2017 6:18 AM

    Why log numbers from a list? What is the appeal of that?
  • fcdc5dae-ca7b-4c23-a198-2820ada32a8b.jpg

    Anberta Aug 23, 2017 6:22 AM

    Only statistic and race with my friend, nothing with geocaching game...
    Ask forgiveness if i'm wrong ....
    I do not know the owners, we have fun logging TBs found on the net and among friends.
     
    So here we have non-cachers leveraging Groundspeak's system to create a competitive game amongst themselves.  Adds an interesting twist to the discussion.

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On 8/21/2017 at 2:08 PM, on4bam said:

I saw a TB when logging the bonus of a series of multi's lately (the CO's car) and when logging the caches I wanted to log the TB too but the listing was locked. I contacted the owner and they said they locked the listing because the tracking code made it onto a list and they were getting a lot of fake logs. We arranged a timeframe and they unlocked the listing so I could log. Minutes after I logged the TB the listing was locked again.

Yeah I was just going to say, if you want personal discoveries only, add that prominently the TB description (I find they're rarely read nowadays anyway) and attach it to the TB, then lock the listing. Someone who personally encounters it will either encounter you or read the description to find out they need to request unlocking, so they can discover it.  It's more owner work, but it removes that code discovery problem without seeing the actual TB or owner.

The rules for deleting TB logs are different than Find logs, so I also don't see an issue with removing discovery logs you feel are bogus.

The 'whitelist' method of discovery is a little harder for vehicle TBs, since you can't tell if/when someone actually spots your code on the road; but at least you have a sense from the log content whether they may have legitimately spotted it depending on where you were. (especially if you require any discovery log to state a location ;))

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4 hours ago, Zekester & Simon said:

Here's an interesting exchange I recently had with someone who logged a few discoveries on TBS we released in 2005 and 2006, that have been missing since 2007.  Curious if they had actually re-appeared, we contacted the logger to inquire as two what the back story.  Below is the resulting conversation:

  • fcdc5dae-ca7b-4c23-a198-2820ada32a8b.jpg

    Anberta Aug 23, 2017 6:14 AM

    Hi Zekester & Simon,
    i found an old list from my friend and i log the TBs... I don't really seen the TBs, but i log them...
    If you don't like, I apologize for the inconvenience, delete my log.
    Thanks for for comprehension.
    Anberta
  • da632891-00ec-4b57-bcfe-d9f04cd01e95.jpg

    You Aug 23, 2017 6:18 AM

    Why log numbers from a list? What is the appeal of that?
  • fcdc5dae-ca7b-4c23-a198-2820ada32a8b.jpg

    Anberta Aug 23, 2017 6:22 AM

    Only statistic and race with my friend, nothing with geocaching game...
    Ask forgiveness if i'm wrong ....
    I do not know the owners, we have fun logging TBs found on the net and among friends.
     
    So here we have non-cachers leveraging Groundspeak's system to create a competitive game amongst themselves.  Adds an interesting twist to the discussion.

Yeah, he didn't find a list, he used a script or something to discover all the available USA geocoins.  Surprised he didn't get a temporary ban for it.

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On 10/31/2017 at 11:30 AM, Zekester & Simon said:

Here's an interesting exchange I recently had with someone who logged a few discoveries on TBS we released in 2005 and 2006,

Yes, this individual actually got famous here in this forum.

I also had a similar conversation with user @Anberta in August and since he was the only one making a discovery log on two of my long lost TBs it was apparent for me that he was not using a published list but was using some automatic script generating random tracking codes.

On 10/31/2017 at 4:15 PM, hzoi said:

Yeah, he didn't find a list, he used a script or something to discover all the available USA geocoins.  Surprised he didn't get a temporary ban for it.

Years ago I reported the very same action (by someone else) to HQ and got a disillusioning reply.

And so did @cerberus1 when he reported this individual this August (see in other thread).

Edited by Hynz

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I got a discovery log yesterday on one of our coins.  It was refreshingly honest:

Quote

Thank you for sharing this nice "Driving Around Germany" Geo-Coin in GC Gallery.

Except that I hadn't shared it, someone else had added that photo in 2013, and I hadn't noticed.  So, I found the photo, deleted it, and deleted the discovery log.

It didn't take long until I got a message from the gallery peeper.

Quote

I could not understand that you delete my Log, because I have seen your Coin. (Please see attached photo)

My response,

Quote
You saw a photo of my coin, which I didn't realize had been added to the gallery and deleted thanks to your discovery log. But discovering coins is meant to let me know that a trackable is active because you actually saw a coin somewhere. Not because you saw it from the comfort of your office. Perhaps you should apply the same philosophy to the other 20,000 plus trackables that I know you've never seen in person, but I'll leave that decision to those other trackable owners.

20,000 is a low ball figure, by the way.  This cacher is closing in on 30,000 trackables.  I have to wonder how many they've actually seen in person, but I'm not looking up 29,000 travel bug logs to find out, as I have better ways to spend my time online.

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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

Except that I hadn't shared it, someone else had added that photo in 2013, and I hadn't noticed.  So, I found the photo, deleted it, and deleted the discovery log.

What bothers me is that there are people in the community who will call you legalistic, who say you are way too uptight because this "is just a game" so let it go, why not just leave the log? "Everyone plays their own way"  *sizzle*

Edited by thebruce0

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28 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

What bothers me is that there are people in the community who will call you legalistic, who say you are way too uptight because this "is just a game" so let it go, why not just leave the log? "Everyone plays their own way"  *sizzle*

Yes, and then they post threads where they want caches they *think* don't follow guidelines should be reported or archived.

 

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Some of you have been geocaching long enough to remember when there were no 'discover' logs and people would post a 'found' log and just say, "I seent it! I seent it!"

This was really annoying. Then 'discover' logs were created. Somewhat of an improvement and I have resigned myself to their existence. My objection is that, for me, the Travel Bug page is a narrative of its travels. It really clutters up the story if a couple dozen people post, "I glimpsed it at an event" log. Who cares? That makes it about the person's stats, not the Travel Bug's travels.

But what really grinds my gears are the ones where someone just looked at a photo. I will absolutely delete those on my TBs. I hate to see them on TBs that I follow. If a TB has been MIA for ten years and someone posts a log saying they discovered it... what the heck. Sometimes they do not confess that it was from seeing a photo and then it gets really confusing. Did it mysteriously turn up somewhere?

I suspect that nobody who is reading this is guilty of the crime but if you are, knock it off!

BTW, I ALWAYS make sure that the TB number is not visible in a photo, even if that means blurring it out. There is always a way to hide the number. Everyone should do that as a courtesy to the TB owner. That's something you CAN do if you are not already. 

~!

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I liked it when Discover logs were created ('06 I believe). 

I can let a TO know about a trackable's condition without silly retrieve-then-drop logs for trackables I'm not able to move along.  Waiting for days or weeks for an email , to have no response anyway got old quick too.  Now can just log it, mention any issues, and move on.   :)

Just a couple months ago a guy had that (all too common these days...)  "bag o trackables" at an event, and it turned out none were in his possession, but still listed in caches.  There were a couple TOs happy that someone let them know with his Discover log.  ;) 

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I love doing the Discover log when I am out caching with my wife or a group of friends. Usually one of us takes it, if we are heading in the direction of travel for the mission, then the others in the group will do a discover on it. If we are all leaving it there. We will do a discover note and move on, leaving it in the cache. I like to then watch that trackable to see if it made it to it's final destination or has just been traveling the globe.

For my personal coins that I have dropped, plus my wifes car, and a personal coin that I keep on me. I love doing the visit. I find it helps with the journey and mileage of the coin. Sometimes they get a plane ride, other times it gets stuck in a city. 

I have not had the misfortune of having one of my trackables drop into a list. Though I have had most disappear. I get the points being made on what to do, when you do get on the list, and the desire to not have it locked permanently, and still be discovered if it is that type of item. 

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:07 PM, Seth! said:

...But what really grinds my gears are the ones where someone just looked at a photo...

BTW, I ALWAYS make sure that the TB number is not visible in a photo, even if that means blurring it out. There is always a way to hide the number. Everyone should do that as a courtesy to the TB owner. That's something you CAN do if you are not already. 

Lately I've been "Discovering" trackables when the code is visible on it's page under "about this item", placed there by a TO.  Just did a couple recently, missing in caches, neither the CO or TO doing anything about it.

Error or not, we've found that most times it's the TOs themselves that put that pic of their item there with the code exposed to all.  My log's something like, "Cute toy. Discovered by the code viewed predominantly on the page"  or similar.  Used to the basic "found online" logs, if they didn't want those Discover logs, maybe my log will get noticed.  I don't care about numbers/stats,  so if they notice and delete my log, that at least tells me they woke up.  :)

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