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False Discoveries - This is getting old!

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I guess we are off topic for this forum then. Not nearly as concerned about a means to filter "false" from "true" discovery logs as we are about a means to eliminate discover logs completely. Our opinion has changed over time, we have trackable name tags and a variety of other paraphenalia that is really meant for discovery only (Z is better off if you don't grab his tattoo and stick it in a cache), but at this point, as far as we are concerned, all discovery logs are invalid, as they do not move the TB towards its goal. If the goal is discovery only (like a tattoo or car sticker, as examples) then the ability of the TB owner to turn that feature on or off as they desire for each of their trackables accommodates both use cases.

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This issue seems to be a big deal with some people. I've only released 17 trackables so far and I haven't had one false log that I know of. I'm curious. Of all the trackable logs posted, what percentage would you say are "bogus"?

 

I guess I've been lucky so far but it seems like others are getting them on a regular basis.

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This issue seems to be a big deal with some people. I've only released 17 trackables so far and I haven't had one false log that I know of. I'm curious. Of all the trackable logs posted, what percentage would you say are "bogus"?

 

I guess I've been lucky so far but it seems like others are getting them on a regular basis.

If your trackable ends up on a list, you'll know. 500 discover logs in German saying "thanks for sharing"

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This issue seems to be a big deal with some people. I've only released 17 trackables so far and I haven't had one false log that I know of. I'm curious. Of all the trackable logs posted, what percentage would you say are "bogus"?

 

I guess I've been lucky so far but it seems like others are getting them on a regular basis.

If your trackable ends up on a list, you'll know. 500 discover logs in German saying "thanks for sharing"

 

 

Why can't ground speak simply have a box you can check on the travel bug page that would "hide" the discovered and visited logs from view?

 

Out of site out of mind.

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Why can't ground speak simply have a box you can check on the travel bug page that would "hide" the discovered and visited logs from view?

 

Out of site out of mind.

I'd suggest the "Collectible-Collection?" mess must be cleaned up first, and then we can work on ideas for new checkboxes. You may be surprised at how poorly a feature is implemented. :ph34r:

 

Can't Groundspeak even be bothered to post something on the site like, "Do not perform any mindless "Discovering" of TB numbers from lists"? It seems like it would especially be in Groundspeak's interest to at least say something. Right?

Edited by kunarion

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What we'd like is a means by which we could turn discovery off completely for our trackables.

That's frequently suggested. There is currently the ability to block all logs, "discover" included.

 

A switch to turn off "Discover" will increase the posts in this Forum. People love to checkmark checkboxes, and there will be an increase of posts about "My friend can't log 'Discover' on my TB, why not!" And it will be because there's a checkbox for "Discover" where it's not at all clear what the checkbox causes. RE: "Collectible".

 

Other than that, if it allowed a Discover log to be made, yet just hid all such logs from view, that might be viable.

 

Note that when I make a Discover log, there are photos and stories about the item. If you're not interested, placing something on the TB page about "No Discovery logs, please", would be a start. While we wait for the checkbox. :anicute:

 

If GS wanted to actually do something, they could slap an instant ban cachers who make those fake logs. We can already easily tell which cachers they are (GS can see it even plainer), make them cut it out. At least make cachers go to extra work after fake logs. But if you've been paying attention, you know that nothing proactive will happen. :ph34r:

 

I agree with the ability to allow visits and discoveries to occur but giving the travel bug owner the option to not have to view them. I don't mind the discovering and visiting of travel bugs. I just don't want to have to wade through all those logs.

 

A Simple "arm chair" discovery of a travel bug isn't reality hurting anything. As long as the location and mileage isn't being effected, let them discover away. A ban on this type of activity seems a little harsh. I would guess that a certain percentage of the people who are doing this are premium members? It wouldn't make much sense for Groundspeak to start banning premium members over something so innocuous.

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Why would anyone suggest banning a geocacher for virtually sharing their property? Here we go again with the we must all cache alike or you are doing it wrong.

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Why would anyone suggest banning a geocacher for virtually sharing their property?

To find out, you'd have to ask anyone who suggests that. Start a new Topic and ask. This thread is about False Discoveries.

Edited by kunarion

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Why would anyone suggest banning a geocacher for virtually sharing their property?

I don't know. You'd have to ask anyone who suggests that.

It was suggested in one of the above posts.

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Why would anyone suggest banning a geocacher for virtually sharing their property?

I don't know. You'd have to ask anyone who suggests that.

It was suggested in one of the above posts.

Since that would be off-topic, start a thread and ask.

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Why would anyone suggest banning a geocacher for virtually sharing their property?

I don't know. You'd have to ask anyone who suggests that.

It was suggested in one of the above posts.

Since that would be off-topic, start a thread and ask.

No thanks.

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A Simple "arm chair" discovery of a travel bug isn't reality hurting anything.

Well, I suppose it's not "hurting anything", but someone telling me that they saw the TB when they didn't is still wrong. I agree there's no reason to try to prevent it, but I do want it to be discouraged. But I can't think of a good way to discourage it beyond education, since any physical mechanism discouraging it is even more likely to discourage legitimate discover logs.

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If you only saw a proxy of the trackables and the owner never released the real thing, how would you log that? If I log a discovery I include where I saw it, in the gallery, on Facebook, event, geocacher, ect. There is no such thing to me as a fake discovery, but I don't log discoverys from a list passed around either.

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If you only saw a proxy of the trackables and the owner never released the real thing, how would you log that?

If the trackable's owner released a proxy into the wild instead of the original, and I saw the proxy tag in person, I would log it as a discover. I can't think of a reason why anyone would refuse to discover it based on its proxy status.

 

If I log a discovery I include where I saw it, in the gallery, on Facebook, event, geocacher, ect. There is no such thing to me as a fake discovery, but I don't log discoverys from a list passed around either.

The "discover" log is intended to indicate that the logger has seen the tag/coin/item in person. It's a way of adding detail to its movement history (e.g. "yes, this item is still located in this spot" or "I actually saw this item in a different location than listed"). If you only see it through a photo or a list, you aren't discovering the trackable at all. You're discovering a photo or list, for which we don't have a log type. It also doesn't add anything to the trackable's history ("Yep, I can confirm that a random photo of this trackable is somewhere on the interwebz. Sorry that this doesn't tell you anything useful about your trackable, but at least I get a +1!").

 

Groundspeak makes it clear in multiple locations how the discover log is supposed to work:

 

How to use a Travel Bug® (emphasis mine)

You also have the option to 'Discover' a Travel Bug under the 'Found it? Log it!' menu. This log type is used when you see a Travel Bug in person, but are not planning to move it to another geocache.

 

4.5. Dealing with Bogus Trackable Logs

Trackables "discovered" without the logger physically interacting with them is discouraged by Geocaching.com.

---------------------------------------

Side note: I noticed on this article that we can lock trackables. How long have we had that ability? It looks like that article may only be a couple of months old, so this may be a new feature that they didn't tell anybody about.

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Side note: I noticed on this article that we can lock trackables. How long have we had that ability? It looks like that article may only be a couple of months old, so this may be a new feature that they didn't tell anybody about.

Around November 11. It was announced by a reviewer on a local Facebook page, and I posted about it here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=335906&view=findpost&p=5547608

 

I don't recall if there was an official announcement.

:)

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So if you discover a photo copy proxy of the trackable, you really did not discover it because you actually did not see the real thing. The new lock feature was added recently and not announced.

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So if you discover a photo copy proxy of the trackable, you really did not discover it because you actually did not see the real thing.

This is a common policy with Geocoins, not so much with TBs. Many finders require it to be the actual coin, and there are posts around here where upset cachers found a “Proxy”, rather than a nice, valuable coin (because someone got there first :ph34r:). Maybe it's because of the unique icon “souvenir”. TBs all have the same one.

 

I would not be surprised if the new Lock feature is Groundspeak's solution, that this is the checkbox, the one “to stop false discoveries”. Sure it stops them, but it's not really what was wanted. Be careful what you Feature Request for. :anicute:

 

Once too many fake logs occur, as determined by I don't know what, Groundspeak locks it. That's a good reason to not “play your way” with other people's property -- you have a blast, the Owner's TB gets removed from play (heh, I hope that was his way to play, because he got played). But with the new feature, the Owner may decide to lock it himself. In the case of fake logs, lock it, delete the fake logs, and in the future you have the option to unlock it when the coast is clear. Worth a try. If everybody who hates fake logs were to lock their Trackables, the lists would be worthless, and the practice of armchair Discover might fade away.

 

The advantage is that it works regardless of whether an Owner was simply caught off guard by the number of logs when cachers learn the number, or if the Owner published it specifically for getting lots of logs, and now regrets that decision.

 

The disavantage is, of course, the Owner's TB is locked.

Edited by kunarion

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A Simple "arm chair" discovery of a travel bug isn't reality hurting anything.

Well, I suppose it's not "hurting anything", but someone telling me that they saw the TB when they didn't is still wrong. I agree there's no reason to try to prevent it, but I do want it to be discouraged. But I can't think of a good way to discourage it beyond education, since any physical mechanism discouraging it is even more likely to discourage legitimate discover logs.

 

I agree, there is no way to effectively stop it. Even if the travel bug is discovered via an errant picture post it's still not how it was intended to work. That being said why not implement a tool to minimize the effect on the travel bug owner? Discovery logs are still useful but I don't need to see them unless the travel bug has been inactive for some time.

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why not implement a tool to minimize the effect on the travel bug owner?

I'm afraid that tool has been implemented:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=332177&view=findpost&p=5552816

 

It's the ability to lock one's own TB. And even better, it's a checkbox. OK a drop-down with a button, but ya can't have everything. B)

Edited by kunarion

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why not implement a tool to minimize the effect on the travel bug owner?

I'm afraid that tool has been implemented:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=332177&view=findpost&p=5552816

 

It's the ability to lock one's own TB. And even better, it's a checkbox. OK a drop-down with a button, but ya can't have everything. B)

 

Wow. Just read the article. All this dose is give the online loggers the power to force owners to remove trackables from the game. This can't be the best that Groundspeak can come up with. I'd rather continue allowing them to discover my travel bug than remove it from the game completely. Just give me the ability to hide the discovered logs.

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I agree, there is no way to effectively stop it. Even if the travel bug is discovered via an errant picture post it's still not how it was intended to work. That being said why not implement a tool to minimize the effect on the travel bug owner? Discovery logs are still useful but I don't need to see them unless the travel bug has been inactive for some time.

I'm in favor of a feature that lets anyone, CO or not, control what logs are shown when a TB log is displayed, but I'm more interested in it to filter out visit logs. I don't see enough fake discover logs to make me feel a need to suppress them.

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I agree, there is no way to effectively stop it. Even if the travel bug is discovered via an errant picture post it's still not how it was intended to work. That being said why not implement a tool to minimize the effect on the travel bug owner? Discovery logs are still useful but I don't need to see them unless the travel bug has been inactive for some time.

I'm in favor of a feature that lets anyone, CO or not, control what logs are shown when a TB log is displayed, but I'm more interested in it to filter out visit logs. I don't see enough fake discover logs to make me feel a need to suppress them.

 

Sounds like a good idea. I'm no computer programmer but I can imagine it wouldn't be hard to implement. So, what are we waiting for?

Edited by justintim1999

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Wow. Just read the article. All this dose is give the online loggers the power to force owners to remove trackables from the game. This can't be the best that Groundspeak can come up with. I'd rather continue allowing them to discover my travel bug than remove it from the game completely. Just give me the ability to hide the discovered logs.

I'm really beginning to think the lock feature is it. If "Discover" logs could be hidden, your TB could be suddenly locked by Groundspeak with no indication. I'm sure they reserve that ability, although the plan is that COs will use the new CO Lock feature themselves. So cachers get to "play their way" and the consequence is the loss of playability of the TB, to the one person who actually laid out money for it and did nothing wrong. Awesome.B)

 

I just now deleted 20 fake Discovers on a Geocoin, "discovered" at a GIFF Event in Poland, while the coin is in my hands and never was in Poland. It kept getting an occasional Discover log from the "Event", the latest one happening last week. Now I locked it, so people can see how that works:

http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=1e32b20f-e3e5-41d3-b35a-5d12ec92fd1f

I can edit my coin's page, but not make even a Note Log.

Edited by kunarion

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The introduced lock feature totally misses the point for us. While I welcome the ability to remove a TB from the game by locking it, I doubt I'd ever do that. What I want is the ability to prevent discover logs for each of my TBs. the lock feature is not a solution to the problem, it is an admission that Groundspeak does not care to deal with it.

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It's all fun and games until someone looses a membership. Groundspeak is not going to start banning members for something as trivial as this. Nor should they. Regardless of what you think about this type of logging it's not really hurting anything. Give me the ability to hide, not block, the discovered and visited logs. This would allow people to play the game as they see fit and allow me to completely ignore it if i choose to.

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I don't think that I fall into the camp that says people should be banned for false logs but it is pretty annoying. This week I had 5 or 6 logs on some travel bugs, from Germany......why is it always Germany?? They were back dated to some time in September, some of those TB tags have been missing since 06, 07 and 08. Do I really think they all turned up together in Germany??? Not a chance!

I really don't see how that is any fun for them but whatever floats your boat I guess.

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So if you discover a photo copy proxy of the trackable, you really did not discover it because you actually did not see the real thing.

 

At least a proxy is an actual physical object with a tracking number typically traveling around from cache to cache.

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So if you discover a photo copy proxy of the trackable, you really did not discover it because you actually did not see the real thing.

 

At least a proxy is an actual physical object with a tracking number typically traveling around from cache to cache.

 

I remember finding my first laminated paper photocopy proxy and thinking how awful someone would do that. I was there looking for a real trackable, not a cheap imitation.

 

But, that was before I owned any trackables. Now after having more than a dozen missing, I bought and released a few proxy coins, and most of them disappeared too.

 

Now I only share my trackables for discovery, and a few for virtual discoverys. I enjoy virtual discoverys because I collect trackables icons.

 

Most of my trackables are not available for virtual discoverys, and if they do get logged I just delete it.

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I just re-read this thread after receiving yet another few thousand discovery emails on our hundreds of TBs as their tracking numbers circulate through the Donnerstag events in Europe and elsewhere. The souvenir events are the worst, as that seems to be when the lists and the links to them circulate the most. I stand by my recommendation, that the TB owner should be the one who determines whether or not any trackable they own is discoverable. I paid for the tracking tag, number or geocoin, it should be my decision on whether or not I intend for that game piece to allow discovery logs. There are trac=king numbers I clearly intend to be discovered only, like the tag on my truck or the tattoo on my leg. False logs for those because of photos posted on Pinterest or Facebook are something I can control to some degree with the lock feature that was implemented. TBs that I have that are intended to move, like those in our Zombie Travel Bug Project (see ZTB ) discovery logs serve two purpose other than to inundate us with undesired logs and emails. It is unreasonable to expect us to lock/unlock hundreds of TBs for events weekends such as this, nor would we want to lock ALL logging, as we want the logs for when they move. Given that we've purchased 831 TB tags/coins, you'd think that level of investment would mean something to Groundspeak, but it does not.

 

Today we got a discovery log on my tattoo from a fellow in the Netherlands, who kindly included a link to his website, which has links to thousands of TB and geocoin numbers, as well as many hundreds if not into the thousands of puzzle cache solutions, earth cache answers and lab cache answers. No doubt this is not the only such website. Both false logs and the discovery concept in general are deeply flawed. It is far past time for a change.

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I'm not sure what you expect them to do. The point of a trackable is that if you come across the tracking number, you can go online and put that number in to log it. There is no way that the website can determine HOW someone came across that tracking number in the first place. There is no way to know if someone parked next to you and took a picture of the number so that they could log it later, or if someone came across that picture and also decided to log it, even though they never saw your van in person. As far as the code/website is concerned, they are both doing the exact same thing: typing in the tracking number.

 

If your number is out there for anyone to see, then I don't understand getting mad when people log it. I have a travel bug that I use just to track my own personal miles and I have never had someone else discover it, because I've never shared the tracking number with anyone.

 

Those seem to be the only two realistic options: either never share your tracking number with anyone, or do share it and assume that anyone in the world will be able to find it.

 

As I stated before, the trackable is on my van. It does not get dropped in caches and only gets discovered by cachers who see it at events. It is NOT for all to see! Only people who attended events I also attended are supposed to see it. I NEVER shared the tracking number on an online forum. But yet someone overseas managed to get ahold of it and added it to a list of 3000+ tracking numbers that has been distributed to hundreds, if not thousands, of cachers.

 

I disagree with your point of the trackable. Having the tracking number does NOT mean you saw the trackable, and I strongly believe that the point of a discovery is to physically discover the TB in the field, NOT just loading a series of numbers into a program and having the problem do all the logging for you, as is the case mentioned. Regardless of what you think, this is NOT good caching etiquette and travel bug owners should be able to avoid getting hundreds of emails from frauds! As of right now, there is literally nothing I can do to prevent this, and surely you can understand why this frustrates me. Taking the TB off my van would do absolutely nothing to stop this.

 

I thought the solution I provided was a reasonable compromise. Those that don't care can just let it go, while those who do can lock and unlock their TB to discoveries as they wish. It's a simple solution that should be not be hard to implement. Geocaching HQ does not need to have an update specifically for this, but it can included as part of a major update.

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I just ran across a cacher who logged discoveries on about 850 trackables on Good Friday, including one of mine. All of them say (in German), "By looking through my photos of recent events and Mega events. Greetings from Cologne!"

 

My travel bug has never been to an event he or she attended, so I suspect a script trying possible numbers.

 

I deleted his log on my travel bug.

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I would like to add to this. (got referred to this forum from another one where we are having pretty much the same conversation).

Did it not begin with the purpose of logging a trackable as you moved it along its mission? And you got credit for moving it along (which meant taking it out of one cache and putting in another) on your statistics. I think it started out that cachers were allowed to "discover" for the purpose of letting cachers know where their trackables were in case they hadn't been moved for quite awhile and to insure the owners that they were still in commission. When someone had the brilliant idea of making the "trackables logged" category include both ones actually moved and ones that cachers supposedly "saw somewhere", all "h-e-doublehockeystick" broke lose. Now it's uncontrollable. Someone else takes your trackable to a mega event and your receive hundreds or thousands of emails because someone is passing around a list of ones they brought with them. And you have no control of what events your trackable shows up at. I think "discovering" should revert back to its original purpose of simplying assuring the trackable owners that their tb/geocoin in still safe and leave it at that. The cacher who "discovers' would simply be doing it out the goodness of their heart - not to get credit for something. And I, like some other cachers, am simply going to wait for the rest of my personally owned trackables to eventually get stolen by dishonest or irresponsible cachers who like to to collect them or lose them for other cachers and in the meantime not bother putting any more out.

I went to an event cache where someone told me about another event cache they went to. There was a collector of geocoins there that had a huge binder full of them. The visiting cacher started to write all the numbers down (i still don't see the sense of accomplishment in that) and the collector said not to waste his time doing that, and gave him a list of all the geocoins instead.

I'm sure to get a concussion from continually banging my head on the wall trying to figure what cachers thnk they have accomplished by all these bogus logs. Perhaps we should also add "I saw the cache but couldn't quite reach it" or "I saw it on the way by but there was too much traffic for me to stop" or "I sat near it but there was too many muggles for me to retrieve it" or "i saw there i it used to be but it wasn't there so I would have found it" .....and THEY COULD ALL BE INCLUDED UNDER "Geocaches Found/would have found/wanted to find/too inconvenient to find".......

I just don't understand why it's so hard. When you enter a log on a trackable - you have to distinguish between "retrieve, grab, write note, discover". "Retrieve and grab" are already separate from "discover" - why can't the stats just stay that way?

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The introduced lock feature totally misses the point for us. While I welcome the ability to remove a TB from the game by locking it, I doubt I'd ever do that. What I want is the ability to prevent discover logs for each of my TBs. the lock feature is not a solution to the problem, it is an admission that Groundspeak does not care to deal with it.

 

That is exactly what I want - ability to prevent discover logs. Until that becomes a reality, I an going to go back in and edit all my currently-alive travel bug profiles to advise that while I appreciate knowing that they are still roaming around as intended, I do not personally believe in "discovering" except for the soul purpose of informing the owner that the trackable is still in commission and that I will be deleting all discover logs. Then I plan on doing that. The sad part is that is seems that the "discoverers" do not read the profiles anyway and will continue their practice. At the same time, unless they go back to check all their entries when their numbers do not add up, they probably won't notice that they have been deleted anyway.

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At the same time, unless they go back to check all their entries when their numbers do not add up, they probably won't notice that they have been deleted anyway.

I've deleted maybe 6 "discovered" logs from my one lone TB. Two people contacted me asking about why I deleted the log. So some people DO notice. (They get an email notification when the log is deleted.)

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That is exactly what I want - ability to prevent discover logs. Until that becomes a reality, I an going to go back in and edit all my currently-alive travel bug profiles to advise that while I appreciate knowing that they are still roaming around as intended, I do not personally believe in "discovering" except for the soul purpose of informing the owner that the trackable is still in commission and that I will be deleting all discover logs. Then I plan on doing that. The sad part is that is seems that the "discoverers" do not read the profiles anyway and will continue their practice. At the same time, unless they go back to check all their entries when their numbers do not add up, they probably won't notice that they have been deleted anyway.

Sad to see you somehow judge one who Discovers your trackables to help you with one who Discovers only for stats, and that you intend to treat both the same way.

 

You even say the stats people , "probably won't notice that they have been deleted anyway"...

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There are lots of aspects or options in geocaching writ large that don't necessarily appeal to us. That's OK, because there are also many, many aspects of the hobby that do. That's one of the things we like bets about it, the fact that many folks with different priorities can all play the game together and still find common bonds. So that numbers folks, statistics folks or whatever you want to call the cachers who find value in collecting the virtual souvenirs that Groundsopeak offers, collecting TB icons, or filling out their profiles all have a place in the game. That being said, there are consequences of some of these activities, albeit unintended, that harm others, and that is where we believe Groundspeak needs to step in and provide guidance, tools, and implement changes that limit harm done while maintaining the viability of as much of the given activity as possible.

 

You have no idea how much we hesitate to say that; for two primary reasons: our view as that Groundspeak has consistently done a poor job of that when they have attempted it at all, and we feel that limiting geocaching (which has often been their response in many cases) is a poor choice compared to expanding what it can be.

 

Our view is that we bought the TB tag, coin or number, and therefore, we should be the one's who get to decide how it is utilized in the game (discoverable or not). The solution implemented thus far does not give us that choice, it is all or nothing. Either the trackable is locked and no logs cane made, or it is play and any logs can be made.

 

Another question is who is harmed and how much. How many of us are getting hundreds or thousands of emails at a whack as these lists get passed around and websites with lists get published? We own 831 trackables, about 225 of those are geocoins that are not in circulation, and whose numbers are not out there. Put another way, we have about 600 trackables in circulation. Suspect we are in a minority amongst trackable owners in that we have so many out there, but this exacerbates the problem for us. The photos of individual tags or numbers or lists on Google, Pinterest, Photobucket, Facebook, and a myriad of other social media sites and webpages on the internet are out there, and the practice of posting them cannot realistically be stopped, nor can they realistically be removed. You can shoot a photo of my trackable tattoo from across the room and I might not even know you have done so. Up it goes on the web somewhere, with good intent or not, and there it is. I get 10-15 discoveries on that alone every day, and an email for every one of them. Yes I can turn of email notifications, but again, Groundspeak has done that in an all or nothing sort of way; either I can turnoff all notifications, or none, not just discoveries. I can shift that tattoo into my collection, and shift it out again when I attend events, and maybe do that for the truck sticker as well, but I cannot reasonably do that do that for trackables the hundreds of other trackables i have that are meant to be traveling all the time, and i use the tattoo as a personal mileage tracker. For similar reasons, continually deleting logs is not s reasonable expectation either.

 

The simple and straightforward solution is for Groundspeak to give the TB owner the choice as to whether or not their TB can receive discovery logs. Does this really harm the cachers who enjoy discovery? I think not, as many TB owners will never exercise that option. Coin collectors will still go to events with their binders and spreadsheet of coin codes. But is the problem a high enough priority for Groundspeak to move it up on their lists of things to do? I suspect not. They have limited resources, higher priorities, and have not received enough complaints about it. Maybe if we all forward all of the discovery logs we received to them with a complaint in each one, that would have an effect. More likely that'd shut down a server or two, be called a denial of service attack, and they'd suspend or eliminate our account.

 

I would also like to note, for those that believe that discovery logs somehow "help" the trackable owner know that their trackable is still alive and moving, that is a false belief. It means the number is available to someone and they are using it. Less than 5% of the discovery logs we receive make any mention of where the TB was discovered or its condition. It is clear by most logs that they have not even read the trackable's page, and know nothing about its mission, goals or purpose.

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for those that believe that discovery logs somehow "help" the trackable owner know that their trackable is still alive and moving, that is a false belief. It means the number is available to someone and they are using it.

But I love the logs that say something like "I see it Event forgot whenn sometime". :rolleyes:

 

The logs I actually like are when someone places it into a cache and logs the drop, and someone else retrieves it. Seeing that, I have a reason to believe it's alive and moving -- even without any particular story or photos.

 

But a buhzillion "Discovers" would be cool if accompanied by a buhzillion location photos and true stories of the TB's adventure. Let's all do that. :anicute:

Edited by kunarion

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I would also like to note, for those that believe that discovery logs somehow "help" the trackable owner know that their trackable is still alive and moving, that is a false belief. It means the number is available to someone and they are using it. Less than 5% of the discovery logs we receive make any mention of where the TB was discovered or its condition. It is clear by most logs that they have not even read the trackable's page, and know nothing about its mission, goals or purpose.

Not false at all.

I've received a couple dozen emails from TOs thanking me for Discovering their trackable (with sometimes an included pic).

 

As you say, it's in the wording...

I haven't had a single Discover log deleted.

I believe it's simply because of mention where it was found, maybe what condition it's in (and whether it was fixed a bit), and might include a pic.

 

- Which doesn't resemble a "looked at list. Greetings from..." or "misha had this on his blog" log at all...

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...Regardless of what you think about this type of logging it's not really hurting anything. Give me the ability to hide, not block, the discovered and visited logs. This would allow people to play the game as they see fit and allow me to completely ignore it if i choose to.

I kinda like this idea. :)

Allows folks to log trackables in the log types as allowed by Groundspeak, Discover and Visit, while keeping the few owners bothered by either happy that they're not seeing it.

 

A shame that some, by hiding/blocking won't notice that trackable in the wrong cache. I told them were I found it , it's large size preventing a Retrieve, in my Discover log. They'll just have to wonder what happened to it for a couple months I guess...

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I would also like to note, for those that believe that discovery logs somehow "help" the trackable owner know that their trackable is still alive and moving, that is a false belief. It means the number is available to someone and they are using it. Less than 5% of the discovery logs we receive make any mention of where the TB was discovered or its condition. It is clear by most logs that they have not even read the trackable's page, and know nothing about its mission, goals or purpose.

Not false at all.

I've received a couple dozen emails from TOs thanking me for Discovering their trackable (with sometimes an included pic).

 

As you say, it's in the wording...

I haven't had a single Discover log deleted.

I believe it's simply because of mention where it was found, maybe what condition it's in (and whether it was fixed a bit), and might include a pic.

 

- Which doesn't resemble a "looked at list. Greetings from..." or "misha had this on his blog" log at all...

 

Perhaps we could meet somewhere in the middle. "Not false" at all is the other extreme of what I see. I have the following discovery logs on my tattoo in the last 18 hours or so:

 

- Seen on an event (Google translate from, German)

- Randomly seen in the I-Net. Thank you for showing me.

- Thanks for the TB discovery !

- Seen on the internet, Thank you for sharing...(Google translate from, French)

- thanx for showing.

- Discovered it. Thank you for sharing.

- Thanks for pointing. [:)] (Google translate from, German)

- Thank you for showing me. [:)] (Google translate from, German)

- Seen.(Google translate from, German)

- This past year can spot somewhere. Thx for sharing (Google translate from, German)

-Today even taken the time to Tb that I saw last year and I had to discount spring photos. What I've just seen I do not remember but most of events. (Google translate from, Dutch)

Last year seen anywhere. probably at an event. thanks (Google translate from, Dutch)

- Today even taken the time to Tb that I saw last year and I had to discount spring photos. What I've just seen I do not remember but most of events. (Google translate from, Dutch) - same cacher logged twice

- thx for sharing

- Thanks for sharing , keep it safe always

- Discovered it.

 

None of these give status, or say where it really was. Given that I have not run into any Dutch, German or French folks in the last day or so, and I have been wearing long pants (tattoo's on the leg) Think we know where we are at here. I always know where the tattoo is, so that is jot as much of an issue for me, except for the constant spam. Here's all the discovery logs in the last 24 hours for other TBs we own:

 

Other TBs:

 

- Discovered in the hands of Bob From Elsewhere at a Donerstag event.

- Found in a letterboxcache (Google translate from, Dutch)

- Seen in Geocaching Club fb. Regards :) (Google translate from Spanish)

- Seen in Geocaching Club fb. Regards :) (Google translate from Spanish)

- Saw at Facebook. Thank you.

- Seen in FB :-) (Google translate from, German)

- Spotted on Facebok. Thanks. CZ (Google translate from, Czech)

- Spotted on Facebok. Thanks. (Google translate from, Czech)

- On Facebook discovered a good trip. (Google translate from, German)

- On FB..Thanks.

- Visions on the event in the Budapesti. Google translate from, Russian)

- Thank you for sharing (Google translate from, French)

- Vienna farewell of winter :-) (Google translate from, Czech)

- Seen on Facebook (Google translate from, German)

- Seen on Facebook (Geocaching Club). Thank you (Google translate from, German)

 

Of the 15, 10 were on Facebook, two mention locations, Vienna and Budapest, but is that were the TB was seen, or where the cacher was when they copied the list? The other three are generic.

 

So 21 spam discovery emails in the last 24 hours. Light day, actually. There were hundreds over the weekend what with the Donnerstag souvenir events.

 

Cerberus1, your experience seems to be very different than mine, these are very typical of what I get in discovery logs, no status, no photos, no mention of location. 95% or better are I saw it on the internet somewhere. Commonest mentioned locations are Internet, Facebook and Pinterest.

 

To my point, none of these logs serve any real purpose to the TB owner. Granted one could easily say the same for many cache ing logs, "TFTC," etc. My point remains the same. Groundspeak should grant my control of what logs I receive.

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I think "discovering" should revert back to its original purpose of simplying assuring the trackable owners that their tb/geocoin in still safe and leave it at that. discover". "Retrieve and grab" are already separate from "discover" - why can't the stats just stay that way?

Curious, where did you get that idea of "original purpose"?

- It's not all about caches...

 

My other 2/3rds has over 200 geocoins (not that that means anything...) that she and others share codes of at events.

At one Mega (geocoinfest), the tables were filled to the point that if one of us left for the bathroom, her two packs full of coins had to sit in the empty seat, or it'd be gone.

 

Since '06 or so, we've noticed many people with "personal" trackables (a car, a tee, walking stick, pack, etc) and they are all to be "Discovered".

- unless you're gonna try fitting a car into one of these little caches of late...

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I would also like to note, for those that believe that discovery logs somehow "help" the trackable owner know that their trackable is still alive and moving, that is a false belief. It means the number is available to someone and they are using it. Less than 5% of the discovery logs we receive make any mention of where the TB was discovered or its condition. It is clear by most logs that they have not even read the trackable's page, and know nothing about its mission, goals or purpose.

Not false at all.

I've received a couple dozen emails from TOs thanking me for Discovering their trackable (with sometimes an included pic).

 

As you say, it's in the wording...

I haven't had a single Discover log deleted.

I believe it's simply because of mention where it was found, maybe what condition it's in (and whether it was fixed a bit), and might include a pic.

 

- Which doesn't resemble a "looked at list. Greetings from..." or "misha had this on his blog" log at all...

Perhaps we could meet somewhere in the middle. "Not false" at all is the other extreme of what I see.

 

- snip -

 

Cerberus1, your experience seems to be very different than mine, these are very typical of what I get in discovery logs, no status, no photos, no mention of location. 95% or better are I saw it on the internet somewhere. Commonest mentioned locations are Internet, Facebook and Pinterest.

 

To my point, none of these logs serve any real purpose to the TB owner. Granted one could easily say the same for many cache ing logs, "TFTC," etc. My point remains the same. Groundspeak should grant my control of what logs I receive.

Exactly...

 

If you had said , "Our experiences have shown that the majority of our Discover logs are false", instead of the generalization bolded above, I might agree with you. :)

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I believe most have seen/discussed enough "greetings from..." logs ad nauseum, and realize that many don't like them, where others could care less.

 

The only, very-simple issue I have is Discover logs aren't all like that. :)

 

For most, though a pain-in-the-can sometimes, it's sorta simple to delete the "found on google" fakers.

 

Sure, I'd think most understand that some who choose to have a ton of trackables out there aren't so lucky.

But I don't feel Discover logs should be eliminated/blocked simply because of that choice.

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I believe most have seen/discussed enough "greetings from..." logs ad nauseum, and realize that many don't like them, where others could care less.

 

The only, very-simple issue I have is Discover logs aren't all like that. :)

 

For most, though a pain-in-the-can sometimes, it's sorta simple to delete the "found on google" fakers.

 

Sure, I'd think most understand that some who choose to have a ton of trackables out there aren't so lucky.

But I don't feel Discover logs should be eliminated/blocked simply because of that choice.

 

I don't think they should be eliminated as well, especially when you consider the fact that for the most part they are used properly and do serve a purpose.

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I don't think they should be eliminated as well, especially when you consider the fact that for the most part they are used properly and do serve a purpose.

If you truly have the impression that most discovery logs serve a purpose this can only refer to the purpose to increase the number of logged travellers or number if icons for the logger.

I guess alone the discovery logs which happen during or after :rolleyes: events will account for the vast majority of all discovery logs. And don't tell me you have seen more than a handfull of those which serves a purpose for the owner.

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I don't think they should be eliminated as well, especially when you consider the fact that for the most part they are used properly and do serve a purpose.

If you truly have the impression that most discovery logs serve a purpose this can only refer to the purpose to increase the number of logged travellers or number if icons for the logger.

I guess alone the discovery logs which happen during or after :rolleyes: events will account for the vast majority of all discovery logs. And don't tell me you have seen more than a handfull of those which serves a purpose for the owner.

 

I truly do. My experience with discovery logs is obviously different than yours. Sure I've had travel bugs discovered online.

Contrary to most who've commented here, it doesn't bother me at all. Nor dose discoveries at events.

 

The useful purpose of which I speak is based on my own experiences. I appreciate a discovery log on a trackable that has been sitting in a cache for an extended period of time. I extend that same courtesy to trackables I come across.

 

I understand that some trackable owners would loth having to wade through pages of discovered logs after an event. I can also see why online discoveries would be an annoyance. The question is are either of these actions so egregious as to eliminate discovery logs all together. I don't think so.

 

If someone discovers one of my trackables for the sole propose of increasing their numbers or gaining an icon than great. As long as they are not tampering with the location of the trackable, what harm are they doing?

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If someone discovers one of my trackables for the sole propose of increasing their numbers or gaining an icon than great. As long as they are not tampering with the location of the trackable, what harm are they doing?

 

That's exactly what this thread is about. Tracking codes get collected and exchanged/published in order to "discover" the code rather than the trackable. Nobody has a problem with discovery logs of TBs seen in caches, "in the hands of" or at events. This changes when TBs (or better codes) are discovered and logged from lists at places where the trackable hasn't even been (trackable in a European cache and at the same time "discovered" at a US event or vice versa :ph34r: )

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If someone discovers one of my trackables for the sole propose of increasing their numbers or gaining an icon than great. As long as they are not tampering with the location of the trackable, what harm are they doing?

 

That's exactly what this thread is about. Tracking codes get collected and exchanged/published in order to "discover" the code rather than the trackable. Nobody has a problem with discovery logs of TBs seen in caches, "in the hands of" or at events. This changes when TBs (or better codes) are discovered and logged from lists at places where the trackable hasn't even been (trackable in a European cache and at the same time "discovered" at a US event or vice versa :ph34r: )

 

So I ask you, What can you do about it? If you enjoy releasing travelers it's something you'll have to live with. You could spend all your time monitoring all your travelers and deleting logs that look questionable. I have better things to do.

 

They have the tracking code. Think of the damage they could do if they wanted to.

 

If collecting codes is what some enjoy doing and they're simply discovering trackables, that's fine with me.

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If collecting codes is what some enjoy doing and they're simply discovering trackables, that's fine with me.

 

They are not discovering trackables, then came across codes, it can even be done with a script if going after "old" TBs when codes were just numbers.

 

Rest assured, I'll gladly delete any log on my TBs that clearly bogus.

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If collecting codes is what some enjoy doing and they're simply discovering trackables, that's fine with me.

 

They are not discovering trackables, then came across codes, it can even be done with a script if going after "old" TBs when codes were just numbers.

 

Rest assured, I'll gladly delete any log on my TBs that clearly bogus.

 

I understand that. If you can't stop it and it's doing no real harm why waist your time?

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