DNF's & inactive cache owner.

[+and_Janine]

I'm in the middle of playing my next outing and there's a cache I was planning on searching for but after checking the log it seems it has not been found in September 2014, there's 11 DNF's since then, and the owner of it hasn't logged in since January 2014. Is this something that she be reported to someone?

 

Thanks.

[+cerberus1]

You don't say what the D/T ratings are.

It's possible one of the last couple people could have placed a NM.

What would you report if you didn't visit the cache yourself?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Eleven DNF logs and no NM? Perhaps you would do a favor to everyone else and hunt for it, logging your DNF as well as a NM. The next unsuccessful geocacher should then be inclined to log a NA.

 

The system works, but few seem willing to use it.

 

Ignoring it won't get it fixed or archived.

 

Edit: speeling.

 

Next Edit: Don't read into it that they haven't been online. Phone apps don't usually show that a cacher has been active or online.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+and_Janine]

Difficulty 2 / Terrain 1.5

299 finds - 25 DNF ... and 11 of the DNF's are the most recent logs.

 

NM = a log of Needs Maintenances, yes? There is a "Needs Maintenances" icon under the Attributes but I can't seem to find one recently in the log, I only see one back in 2010.

 

I have no issues with searching and logging it since it's feet from my intended starting point.

 

I guess my question should be, is there anything I, not the owner, can do (like reporting somehow) since the owner seems to be MIA. Or is this something that's destined to be sitting around collecting DNF's?

[+cerberus1]

I guess my question should be, is there anything I, not the owner, can do (like reporting somehow) since the owner seems to be MIA. Or is this something that's destined to be sitting around collecting DNF's?

Sure.

After looking and not finding it, log a NM with your DNF.

Next person could place a NA (after not finding it either) to get a Reviewer involved.

 

I guess I don't understand why you're in such a hurry to nail this person.

There may well be more to "a story" than you know, but no one will find out until someone gets off their dead can and starts the ball rolling by placing a NM after not finding it.

[+Ben0w]

Technically anyone with an account on geocaching.com and knowing the GC number can log a "needs archived" (NA) entry, which will alert a reviewer to look into things (so, the "NA" expands more to "needs (reviewer) attention").

 

Be sure to add some good reasons, like "11 DNF in a row, owner not responding, seems inactive since 2014". Be very sure to don't mix up things: a group of 11 cachers didn't find the box and posted a DNF each? That's more or less just worth 1 DNF. Owner logging other caches every day? That's not an inactive owner just one using a smartphone app which isn't registered as log in. And so on...

 

Those possible misunderstandings are the reason

why it is considered fair play to first log an "needs maintenance" (NM) before a NA. This will alert the cache owner without involving a reviewer. But, technically, it's not needed.

 

Over here such a NA then will lead to temporary deactivation by a reviewer for ~4 weeks, including an appeal to the cache owner to get things checked or fixed. After ~4 weeks and still no owner reaction it may get archived by the reviewer. Even after this the cache owner has the possibility to get the cache re-activated, so no real harm is done if he/she responds in a certain time frame and is willing to care for the cache.

 

Things may vary at your location, if in doubt, ask a local reviewer.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Ben0w

[+cerberus1]

NM = a log of Needs Maintenances, yes? There is a "Needs Maintenances" icon under the Attributes but I can't seem to find one recently in the log, I only see one back in 2010.

If there isn't currently a red wrench when searching for the cache page, that Needs Maintenance probably had Owner Maintenance done at the time.

[+and_Janine]

The cache looks like it need some sort of looking into/after at the very least and with the owner not logging on for over a year I don't know if this was something that was just going sit around or not? I know that I'm pretty new to this but I read that owners need to keep up the maintenance on their caches. 4 and a half months with no finds and 11 DNF logged and seemingly no owner messages or attention? I thought that was strange and that maybe it was something that needed attention and I don't/didn't know how I could bring attention to it, if that was an option for me to do.

 

There's no indication that the last 11 who logged DNF did anything other than logging it DNF, which is what led me to here to get advice. I honestly didn't know there was anything to log, as a common user, beside a find and a did not find, again which is why I came here looking for advice. There's a big red X under Attributes but the only 'needs maintenance' I can find in the log is back in 2010 and the only red wrench's I can see is on the caches page at the top of the log where it shows the count of finds, dnf, notes.. ect. And next to the logs in 2010.

 

I'm not looking to "nail" anyone in a hurry or even slowly. Next time I'll just mind my own business.

[+TriciaG]

Around my neck of the woods, cachers don't get upset if someone who hasn't looked for that cache would post a NM on it. I would suggest doing that. If there's no action from the owner for a month or two, post an NA.

 

I logged an NA on a cache I haven't looked for: http://coord.info/GC33T7B But in that case, the area vegetation had been cleaned out, so it's almost certain the cache is gone.

 

*putting on my flame retardant suit*

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yes. A flame retardant suit is a good idea! If you have not searched for it, you do NOT know if it needs maintenance! (And even if you have searched for it, you do not necessarily know...)

To OP: Look for it. Then use your judgment as to whether it needs NM. After eleven DNFs, it might well need maintenance. But you do not know that until you have searched for it.

[+K13]

Before your search, why not send the CO an email explaining that you plan to search, but see all the recent DNF and are wondering if they have checked on their cache. Otherwise, unless you search, how could you know it needs maintenance?

[+L0ne.R]

What's so wrong about NMs? As a cache owner I value them. Then again I would never let my caches accumulate 11 dnfs without checking by the third report.

If this is a missing cache with a defunct owner all the more reason to post the NM and get the archival process started. It'll take 2 to 6 months before the listing will finally get archived. I don't see the point in keeping a defunct cache active.

 

[+Athryn and Peri]

Hey all, this thread mostly answers the question I wanted to ask, as I've been running into a number of caches with months-long streaks of DNFs in my area.

 

I just want to make sure I know the process -

 

If there's a lot of DNFs in a row and I can't find it, either - I should do a NM.

If someone has already done a NM, I should log a NA.

[+cerberus1]

Hey all, this thread mostly answers the question I wanted to ask, as I've been running into a number of caches with months-long streaks of DNFs in my area.

 

I just want to make sure I know the process -

 

If there's a lot of DNFs in a row and I can't find it, either - I should do a NM.

If someone has already done a NM, I should log a NA.

Yep.

[+K13]

Hey all, this thread mostly answers the question I wanted to ask, as I've been running into a number of caches with months-long streaks of DNFs in my area.

 

I just want to make sure I know the process -

 

If there's a lot of DNFs in a row and I can't find it, either - I should do a NM.

If someone has already done a NM, I should log a NA.

 

Provided these aren't higher difficulty caches, which are intended to be harder to find.

[+Athryn and Peri]

 

Provided these aren't higher difficulty caches, which are intended to be harder to find.

 

Oh yeah, of course, the ones in question that I've run across are 1/1 difficulty. They *should* be easy finds but are nowhere to be seen. Thanks for the replies!

Edited May 18, 2015 by Athryn and Peri

[+GroveBird]

You could look at the most recent "Found it" Logs as well. A lot of times folks will find a cache and indicate in their find that the log is wet, cache is damaged, cache isnt hidden, etc, and not post a NM.

[+Walts Hunting]

While trying to resolve this in an area where you don't cache regularly as indicated is a nice thing to do it can consume you if you try to deal with each one. The ignore list is real handy for this situation.

[+Arne1]

Hey all, this thread mostly answers the question I wanted to ask, as I've been running into a number of caches with months-long streaks of DNFs in my area.

 

I just want to make sure I know the process -

 

If there's a lot of DNFs in a row and I can't find it, either - I should do a NM.

If someone has already done a NM, I should log a NA.

Sending NM log to geocache of owner with last login in January 2014 ?? NONSENS ! Such owner is long time "dead".

In such case only NA !

[+The A-Team]

Sending NM log to geocache of owner with last login in January 2014 ?? NONSENS ! Such owner is long time "dead".

In such case only NA !

As was mentioned by someone else earlier, the "Last Visit" date is not a foolproof method of determining a member's level of activity. If someone uses only a smartphone app or something like GSAK and never visits the website, that date will not update. To determine if someone is truly inactive, you'd also have to look at whether they have any recent finds, Owner Maintenance or notes on their owned caches, etc.

 

With more and more people using smartphones, the accuracy and value of the "Last Visit" date steadily diminishes.

[+dprovan]

Sending NM log to geocache of owner with last login in January 2014 ?? NONSENS ! Such owner is long time "dead".

In such case only NA !

As was mentioned by someone else earlier, the "Last Visit" date is not a foolproof method of determining a member's level of activity. If someone uses only a smartphone app or something like GSAK and never visits the website, that date will not update. To determine if someone is truly inactive, you'd also have to look at whether they have any recent finds, Owner Maintenance or notes on their owned caches, etc.

Besides, NA should be posted only because of the state of the cache, never because there's something wrong with the CO such as being inactive.

[+jellis]

Over here such a NA then will lead to temporary deactivation by a reviewer for ~4 weeks, including an appeal to the cache owner to get things checked or fixed. After ~4 weeks and still no owner reaction it may get archived by the reviewer. Even after this the cache owner has the possibility to get the cache re-activated, so no real harm is done if he/she responds in a certain time frame and is willing to care for the cache.

I would do that too. Contact the CO and see if the cache is missing or just too difficult. Someone forgot to mention if the 11 DNFs maybe newbies. I had some newbies go after my caches recently and put DNFs and NM at the same time. Some newbies don't know what a nano is or flat packs or one that got me in the beginning is the Blank Face Plate. Most CO forget that we now know what they are and so they maybe rated too low for newbies.

[+DaysJourney]

Really, this isn't rocket science. 11 DNF's for a 1/1? Owner hasn't logged on since '14? Forget the 'smartphone doesn't count their log ons' nonsense, they are most likely gone or are irresponsible. Make a Needs Maintenance log - this will alert the owner (again) that something is wrong. AND make a Needs Archived log, which will get the reviewer involved. That is the only way to open up the spot for new cache placement. You can search the owner's history, email, message them and all that but it's the reveiwer's job to figure out what is going on. There is no harm in getting them involved.