Saving this for reference, three cache monte approved.

[+wmpastor]

Just as a side note, what is the definition of a troll? Wikipedia says it is "a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response". Is this correct?

 

I know this is off topic, but somehow the question popped up in my head while reading this thread.

Well, i'm glad we determined there's no trolling. Nothing inflammatory, extraneous or off-topic here. A legitimate discussion. The open-minded will stay. Case closed.

[+Touchstone]

The forum regulars more or less see TCM as either cheating...

 

My mistake. My impression was that most of the forum regulars considered it as stupid.

 

There's also the alternative interpretation that might be considered. Power Trails aren't really geocaching, so there's really no sense in using regularly accepted practices with something that is basically a side game. Kind of like claiming a FTF.

 

So standing in the hot sun signing a lot is smarter?

 

And caches placed simply and densely are somehow less authentic than the epic caches that are your paradigm of "real" caches??

My impression was the ET and other PT's in the area were usually done during the Spring or Fall, when temperatures were more moderate, but in general I agree. Going out on that stretch of highway to go geocaching in July/August time frame is pretty foolish, TCM or by more traditional methods.

[+Roman!]

The forum regulars more or less see TCM as either cheating...

 

My mistake. My impression was that most of the forum regulars considered it as stupid.

 

There's also the alternative interpretation that might be considered. Power Trails aren't really geocaching, so there's really no sense in using regularly accepted practices with something that is basically a side game. Kind of like claiming a FTF.

 

Resorting to calling lackeys names?

[+Roman!]

I'm sorry but I can't go along with the TCM approach, I think it waters down and cheapens the game.

It removes one of the basic precepts of the game which is, find a cache, sign the log and rehide for the next geocacher to find.

If this were to become accepted practice then I would be able to go find your cache,(it could be any of you) sign the log and because I'm too busy or time is short or I'm too lazy. "insert your excuse here", take the cache and drop it off at the next cache I find, pick up that one and repeat.

Geocaching would become Geochaos.

 

I'm not going to play the game that way but most assuredly, there are some that would, or at least would try..

 

The "slippery slope" argument doesn't persuade me. Certain areas have known "power trails," & it is there and there alone that COs are fine with container-swapping.

 

They're really grasping at straws now, I wouldn't condone the practice for a non-pt cache that was surrounded by a pt, in fact I wouldn't condone the practice for all PTs but there line of where it is ok and for the most part cachers respect that line.

 

Generally if the powertrail consist of nothing but film pots then it's ok.

 

I have done a few PTs and have come across caches along the way with unique containers and guess what, they were the original containers. TCM is not some free for all that in your hatred of power trails you imagine it to be.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Roman!

[+Touchstone]

The forum regulars more or less see TCM as either cheating...

 

My mistake. My impression was that most of the forum regulars considered it as stupid.

 

There's also the alternative interpretation that might be considered. Power Trails aren't really geocaching, so there's really no sense in using regularly accepted practices with something that is basically a side game. Kind of like claiming a FTF.

 

Resorting to calling lackeys names?

I have no idea. You'll have to ask one of the forum regulars.

 

I generally don't get involved in these types of discussions, because it seems futile. People are going to cache in the manner they see fit, regardless of what anyone says.

 

Like it was stated earlier...

 

I'm outa here. See ya.

[+JL_HSTRE]

How a couple of us who happen to be Lackeys found and logged caches at that particular time in no way constitutes endorsement by Groundspeak/Geocaching HQ of the parties involved or their logging behavior.

 

Every company I ever worked for I was held accountable for my actions at all times to represent the company in a positive light.

 

I actually agree with Roman on this one (which is probably the first and only time).

 

Does a Lackey using questionable caching practices constitute an official endorsement by Groundspeak of said practices? No. HOWEVER, Lackeys (and Reviewers) are "the people in charge" and as such have a responsibility to set a good example, to behave better than their average peer.

 

I would feel similarly disappointed if my local Reviewer primarily hid power trails and Walmart parking lot LPCs under their player account.

 

Although I suppose if we can't get government officials to live up to that standard why should we expect that of Groundspeak employees...

Edited May 6, 2015 by Joshism

[+dprovan]

I'm sorry but I can't go along with the TCM approach, I think it waters down and cheapens the game.

It removes one of the basic precepts of the game which is, find a cache, sign the log and rehide for the next geocacher to find.

The way I see it, the CO cheapens the game by planting a series that's so repetitive that 3 cache monte is an acceptable approach. Given such a series, I don't see how cachers actually taking the CO up on the suggestion can cheapen the game even more.

[+Roman!]

I'm sorry but I can't go along with the TCM approach, I think it waters down and cheapens the game.

It removes one of the basic precepts of the game which is, find a cache, sign the log and rehide for the next geocacher to find.

The way I see it, the CO cheapens the game by planting a series that's so repetitive that 3 cache monte is an acceptable approach. Given such a series, I don't see how cachers actually taking the CO up on the suggestion can cheapen the game even more.

 

Create an activity and you'll create competition, it's human nature, PTs are a natural evolution of the game, problem is most forum posters are long time members and they oppose the change.

 

Me, I like ol' time rock and roll, my kids think I'm square and a few choice other words, I really should get hip but I am one stubborn SOB, gives my kids a heck of a laugh.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Roman!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

How a couple of us who happen to be Lackeys found and logged caches at that particular time in no way constitutes endorsement by Groundspeak/Geocaching HQ of the parties involved or their logging behavior.

 

I'm going to stick with if it's good enough for you it's good enough for me.

 

And I didn't know it was more than one lackey, two makes it that much better

 

In my opinion, you knew in your heart that 3 cache monte is a lame way to "find" caches (but effective in increasing the number of caches found), and are using "if it's good enough for you it's good enough for me" to justify to yourself that it's okay for you do it on your next power trail.

 

 

 

[+Keelmann And Cici]

This discussion seems to be missing some relevant points. Unless TCM is actionable by Groundspeak by removal of finds, it can't really be called "cheating". And Roman, if that's the way you want to geocache, go for it. You don't need to use a lackey for justification, which is really all you're doing here. Just play the way you want. I don't care for the method, and I'd never play that way, as it would feel cheesy and cheap to me, but that's my opinion applied to the way I geocache.

 

One of the best things about geocaching is being able to play the way you want. You like FTF's? Go for it! Trackables? Have fun! Only like full-size caches in parks? Great, there's a ton! Play the way you want, and don't worry about how other people play, and you won't have to worry about justifying something. If you use a technique in a gray area, then you should be prepared for a cache owner to object. In the end, in a disagreement, Groundspeak is the judge.

 

Power trails don't really interest me, as I don't care much about numbers. My favorite caches are always the unique, special, creative ones.

[+Roman!]

This discussion seems to be missing some relevant points. Unless TCM is actionable by Groundspeak by removal of finds, it can't really be called "cheating". And Roman, if that's the way you want to geocache, go for it. You don't need to use a lackey for justification, which is really all you're doing here. Just play the way you want. I don't care for the method, and I'd never play that way, as it would feel cheesy and cheap to me, but that's my opinion applied to the way I geocache.

 

One of the best things about geocaching is being able to play the way you want. You like FTF's? Go for it! Trackables? Have fun! Only like full-size caches in parks? Great, there's a ton! Play the way you want, and don't worry about how other people play, and you won't have to worry about justifying something. If you use a technique in a gray area, then you should be prepared for a cache owner to object. In the end, in a disagreement, Groundspeak is the judge.

 

Power trails don't really interest me, as I don't care much about numbers. My favorite caches are always the unique, special, creative ones.

 

When I did my first power trail (Route 66) with my kids I signed every cache at GZ and returned it, later, on our way to Boise to do the Owyhee PT with friends we discussed the pros and cons of using TCM. Although the PT was a heck of a lot of fun the main purpose of a pt is finds and TCM just makes sense. There is a time and a place to use this tactic. I've done numerous and hike trails where TCM would not be acceptable. I feel most geocachers can distinguish when and where it is ok to use TCM and respect caches where it should not be used. There is a lot of ignorance on this forum towards PTs and TCM and seeing one the lackeys post a video of his group using the method on a pt where it is an accepted practice, ho could I not jump on the opportunity to point it out?

 

On a side note I'd consider PAF or asking anyone but the CO for help with a puzzle a lot closer to cheating than TCM ever is.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Roman!

[+dprovan]

This discussion seems to be missing some relevant points. Unless TCM is actionable by Groundspeak by removal of finds, it can't really be called "cheating".

No, sorry, it can be called cheating, and I call it cheating. I can also call finding a puzzle cache without solving the puzzle cheating. That doesn't mean I care if anyone does it. It doesn't mean I think GS shouldn't allow it. It just means I might razz my friends about it if they do it. And some might razz me about it if I do it.

[+narcissa]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

[TahoeJoe]

I'm sorry but I can't go along with the TCM approach, I think it waters down and cheapens the game.

It removes one of the basic precepts of the game which is, find a cache, sign the log and rehide for the next geocacher to find.

The way I see it, the CO cheapens the game by planting a series that's so repetitive that 3 cache monte is an acceptable approach. Given such a series, I don't see how cachers actually taking the CO up on the suggestion can cheapen the game even more.

 

Create an activity and you'll create competition, it's human nature, PTs are a natural evolution of the game, problem is most forum posters are long time members and they oppose the change.

 

Me, I like ol' time rock and roll, my kids think I'm square and a few choice other words, I really should get hip but I am one stubborn SOB, gives my kids a heck of a laugh.

Yes I am a long time player and oppose the idea of the TCM (at this point I’m not aware of any change being made). The demographics of the players have changed over the years with the introduction of the smartphone, which brought geocaching to the masses. In the early days of geocaching we had a relatively small group of players that shared many of the same interests and ideas about the game. A geocache was placed somewhere of interest which usually involved a hike. You would hand enter the coordinates into your GPS unit, print out a map and go look for it. Some of my favorite hiking spots I discovered because of geocaching. When you did find the cache, it was usually a good size ammo can with tradable goodies for the kids and a logbook you could sign and sit back and read about the other stories of previous visits. Geocaching was about the journey, not how many caches you can find in a day and what shortcuts can to use to bloat your find numbers. Playing PT’s you are probably so focused on numbers that you are missing out on the things going on around you. Driving down a highway and stopping every tenth of a mile to grab a film canister in a pile of rocks is not my idea of fun (or geocaching for that matter). I could do this without a GPS receiver. Now lets introduce the concept of TCM, which purpose is to save time and skip the process of signing the log at the cache site just so you can get to the next pile of rocks faster so that you can bump up your find totals. TCM is just another nail in the coffin to the roots of geocaching. It reminds me of when I was shopping in a store and saw they now have a monopoly game with a electronic bank and credit cards so you don’t have to even count your money any more, you got to be kidding me! Is it still monopoly? Yes, but not a version I would play with my children. To answer your signature line ” Show me someone that says it's not about the numbers and I'll show you someone that can't count”. 1…2…3…4…5…6…7…8…9…10. I always have and will continue to geocache for the journey.

[+Cardinal Red]

How a couple of us who happen to be Lackeys found and logged caches at that particular time in no way constitutes endorsement by Groundspeak/Geocaching HQ of the parties involved or their logging behavior.

 

When a Reviewer caused a Forum firestorm because of a particular cache signing method he was dismissed from that volunteer position. Since you have not similarly lost your position, in my mind that "constitutes endorsement by Groundspeak/Geocaching HQ of the parties involved or their logging behavior".

 

It also a practice that my conscience would never allow me to participate in. Then you make a video telling the newbies this is the way its done. Go for it. I'm not mad, I'm disappointed.

[+Team Microdot]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

 

How?

[+Roman!]

I'm sorry but I can't go along with the TCM approach, I think it waters down and cheapens the game.

It removes one of the basic precepts of the game which is, find a cache, sign the log and rehide for the next geocacher to find.

The way I see it, the CO cheapens the game by planting a series that's so repetitive that 3 cache monte is an acceptable approach. Given such a series, I don't see how cachers actually taking the CO up on the suggestion can cheapen the game even more.

 

Create an activity and you'll create competition, it's human nature, PTs are a natural evolution of the game, problem is most forum posters are long time members and they oppose the change.

 

Me, I like ol' time rock and roll, my kids think I'm square and a few choice other words, I really should get hip but I am one stubborn SOB, gives my kids a heck of a laugh.

Yes I am a long time player and oppose the idea of the TCM (at this point I’m not aware of any change being made). The demographics of the players have changed over the years with the introduction of the smartphone, which brought geocaching to the masses. In the early days of geocaching we had a relatively small group of players that shared many of the same interests and ideas about the game. A geocache was placed somewhere of interest which usually involved a hike. You would hand enter the coordinates into your GPS unit, print out a map and go look for it. Some of my favorite hiking spots I discovered because of geocaching. When you did find the cache, it was usually a good size ammo can with tradable goodies for the kids and a logbook you could sign and sit back and read about the other stories of previous visits. Geocaching was about the journey, not how many caches you can find in a day and what shortcuts can to use to bloat your find numbers. Playing PT’s you are probably so focused on numbers that you are missing out on the things going on around you. Driving down a highway and stopping every tenth of a mile to grab a film canister in a pile of rocks is not my idea of fun (or geocaching for that matter). I could do this without a GPS receiver. Now lets introduce the concept of TCM, which purpose is to save time and skip the process of signing the log at the cache site just so you can get to the next pile of rocks faster so that you can bump up your find totals. TCM is just another nail in the coffin to the roots of geocaching. It reminds me of when I was shopping in a store and saw they now have a monopoly game with a electronic bank and credit cards so you don’t have to even count your money any more, you got to be kidding me! Is it still monopoly? Yes, but not a version I would play with my children. To answer your signature line ” Show me someone that says it's not about the numbers and I'll show you someone that can't count”. 1…2…3…4…5…6…7…8…9…10. I always have and will continue to geocache for the journey.

 

I geocache because I find it fun, I enjoy doing power trails, takes me to so pretty cool places, I also like hiking, I have many high terrain mountain top cache find, I've done bike trail, hike trails and just bought a kayak and done my first boat only cache.ive been to 32 states and 7 provinces since I started caching 4 years ago and I would not trade any of the experiences I've had, I appreciate them all. You see, I alway have and will continue to geocache for the journey as well but that's just one aspect of geocaching, numbers are another, I'm thankful I'm open minded enough to enjoy all the different aspects this game can offer.

[+AustinMN]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

 

I tried to think of any other topic where this logic makes sense. I only found one.

 

This is true:

"Complaining about complaining is complaining."

 

Otherwise, your statement makes as much sense as:

"Complaining about Monday is Monday."

 

Austin

[+Roman!]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

 

I tried to think of any other topic where this logic makes sense. I only found one.

 

This is true:

"Complaining about complaining is complaining."

 

Otherwise, your statement makes as much sense as:

"Complaining about Monday is Monday."

 

Austin

 

But complaining about Monday could be mundane.

[TahoeJoe]

 

I geocache because I find it fun, I enjoy doing power trails, takes me to so pretty cool places, I also like hiking, I have many high terrain mountain top cache find, I've done bike trail, hike trails and just bought a kayak and done my first boat only cache.ive been to 32 states and 7 provinces since I started caching 4 years ago and I would not trade any of the experiences I've had, I appreciate them all. You see, I alway have and will continue to geocache for the journey as well but that's just one aspect of geocaching, numbers are another, I'm thankful I'm open minded enough to enjoy all the different aspects this game can offer.

Good for you, I’m glad you enjoy geocaching after all, that’s what it’s all about. I have a suggestion for you, if you want to call yourself open-minded, you might want to change your signature line. It makes you sound pretty judgmental about how others choose to geocache.

[+Roman!]

 

I geocache because I find it fun, I enjoy doing power trails, takes me to so pretty cool places, I also like hiking, I have many high terrain mountain top cache find, I've done bike trail, hike trails and just bought a kayak and done my first boat only cache.ive been to 32 states and 7 provinces since I started caching 4 years ago and I would not trade any of the experiences I've had, I appreciate them all. You see, I alway have and will continue to geocache for the journey as well but that's just one aspect of geocaching, numbers are another, I'm thankful I'm open minded enough to enjoy all the different aspects this game can offer.

Good for you, I’m glad you enjoy geocaching after all, that’s what it’s all about. I have a suggestion for you, if you want to call yourself open-minded, you might want to change your signature line. It makes you sound pretty judgmental about how others choose to geocache.

 

How many times have you seen someone post it's not about the numbers? At least with my signature I don't have to respond.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Roman!

[+on4bam]

It also a practice that my conscience would never allow me to participate in. Then you make a video telling the newbies this is the way its done. Go for it. I'm not mad, I'm disappointed.

 

Same here. You're supposed to find a cache, sign the log and replace the cache, not find the cache, replace cache with presigned log and hide taken cache elsewhere.

 

A video showing a lackey doing this is setting a bad example for newbies who will copy this behavior as they think that this is the way it's supposed to be done. Well, it isn't.

[+Roman!]

It also a practice that my conscience would never allow me to participate in. Then you make a video telling the newbies this is the way its done. Go for it. I'm not mad, I'm disappointed.

 

Same here. You're supposed to find a cache, sign the log and replace the cache, not find the cache, replace cache with presigned log and hide taken cache elsewhere.

 

A video showing a lackey doing this is setting a bad example for newbies who will copy this behavior as they think that this is the way it's supposed to be done. Well, it isn't.

 

Says who, things evolve, power trails are a part of that evolution and so is TCM, as thing evolve further the geocaching community will determine what is and is not acceptable. Can't wait to see what the oldtimers are complaining about 5 years from now.

[+on4bam]

Says who,

 

TPTB, GS, geocaching.com.. whatever you like to call them:

 

For newbies: (how is the game played)

5.Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

6.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

Can I move cache once I find it?

Please do not move a cache from its original location. If you feel that the cache may not be located in the correct location, please email the cache owner directly or post a log on the cache listing page, notifying the owner of your concern. Cache owners are responsible for maintaining their cache placements.

 

In case it's not clear you can use Google translate or any other translation website

Edited May 6, 2015 by on4bam

[+Roman!]

Says who,

 

TPTB, GS, geocaching.com.. whatever you like to call them:

 

For newbies: (how is the game played)

5.Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

6.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

Can I move cache once I find it?

Please do not move a cache from its original location. If you feel that the cache may not be located in the correct location, please email the cache owner directly or post a log on the cache listing page, notifying the owner of your concern. Cache owners are responsible for maintaining their cache placements.

 

In case it's not clear you can use Google translate or any other translation website

 

Those are not the rules.

 

What are the rules of geocaching?

 

If you take something from the geocache (or "cache"), leave something of equal or greater value.

Write about your find in the cache logbook.

Log your experience at www.geocaching.com.

 

Again, geocaching is evolving, regardless of your opinion TCM is an acceptable tactic in general. Not moving a cache is a guidleline as most caches should not be moved but there are exceptions where it is or was ok such as moving caches.

 

Just look at no ALRs yet we have earthcaches and challenge caches, again, changes due to the evolution of the game.

 

 

EDIT: found another area of the site with rules, still no mention of not moving a cache:

 

1.5. Are there rules?

 

We like to keep things fun for everyone, so we have a few rules we encourage everyone to follow:

 

Sign both the logbook and log your find online to get your smiley. Geocache owners love reading about your experience.

 

If you take a trinket from the geocache, leave something family-friendly of equal or greater value. Avoid placing food or scented items as these attract animals.

 

Be mindful of non-geocaching onlookers. Curious people have been known to take or damage geocaches.

 

Make sure you don't accidentally venture on to someone's private property. Caches won't require you to trespass.

 

If you find a problematic cache, please contact the owner directly or contact us.

 

Leave the geocache area better than how you found it. Try not to disrupt local wildlife and pack out any trash you see.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Roman!

[+on4bam]

Those are not the rules.

 

Look at Geocaching 101.

 

Do you say info there is not correct?

[+Roman!]

Those are not the rules.

 

Look at Geocaching 101.

 

Do you say info there is not correct?

 

Those are guidelines, and they have exceptions.

 

Look at

 

What kind of cache should I look for on my first adventure?

Cache Type: Traditional Traditional Cache Icon

 

Difficulty Rating: 1 Difficulty: 1 Star Icon

 

Cache Size: Regular or Large Regular Cache Size Icon Large Cache Size Icon

 

You should also check to see that other geocachers have recently logged finds on the cache page (also called the cache listing). This indicates that the geocache is most likely still in place and findable. Find logs are indicated on the cache page with a smiley face.

 

Does that mean every newbie has to check if other geocachers recently logged the cache and only search for a 1/1?

[+on4bam]

Those are not the rules.

 

Look at Geocaching 101.

 

Do you say info there is not correct?

 

Those are guidelines, and they have exceptions.

 

Look at

 

What kind of cache should I look for on my first adventure?

Cache Type: Traditional Traditional Cache Icon

 

Difficulty Rating: 1 Difficulty: 1 Star Icon

 

Cache Size: Regular or Large Regular Cache Size Icon Large Cache Size Icon

 

You should also check to see that other geocachers have recently logged finds on the cache page (also called the cache listing). This indicates that the geocache is most likely still in place and findable. Find logs are indicated on the cache page with a smiley face.

 

Does that mean every newbie has to check if other geocachers recently logged the cache and only search for a 1/1?

 

The question was: Is the info given in geocaching 101 not correct?

[+Roman!]

Let's look at geocaching 101 some more:

 

At its simplest level, geocaching requires these 8 steps:

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

There are many other levels to the game. Keep reading the guide to learn more!

 

1) you can register for a premium too but I guess you get basic first.

2) I found my first cache without ever visiting the hide and seek page, I used the app.

3) Never in 4 years have I entered my postal code.

4) na

5) I either use the app or upload the cache, rarely do I enter coordinates.

6) I've found caches without my GPS or any GPS.

7) I've stamped logbooks and have others sign for me and have moved caches.

8) I do not share stories and photos on every single cache I find.

 

If these were rules pretty much every cache I gave found or most anyone else has found would not be legitimate.

 

Now read the last line that says keep reading the guide, it doesn't say rule book, the only rules are those where it states they are rules and even those seem to be negotiable.

[+narcissa]

 

Just look at no ALRs yet we have earthcaches and challenge caches, again, changes due to the evolution of the game.

 

 

Earthcaches and challenge caches pre-date the ALR rule.

[+on4bam]

Let's look at geocaching 101 some more:

 

I guess you're a lost cause or just don't want to see it. Never mind, have it your way.

[+Roman!]

Let's look at geocaching 101 some more:

 

I guess you're a lost cause or just don't want to see it. Never mind, have it your way.

 

Here's your choice:

 

Either a couple of lackeys cheated on thousands of caches or TCM is not cheating, I go with the latter.

[+cheech gang]

Let's look at geocaching 101 some more:

 

I guess you're a lost cause or just don't want to see it. Never mind, have it your way.

 

Here's your choice:

 

Either a couple of lackeys cheated on thousands of caches or TCM is not cheating, I go with the latter.

 

It is your right to believe the latter. That still does not support the conclusions you made in post #3

[+rosebud55112]

This discussion seems to be missing some relevant points. Unless TCM is actionable by Groundspeak by removal of finds, it can't really be called "cheating".

No, sorry, it can be called cheating, and I call it cheating. I can also call finding a puzzle cache without solving the puzzle cheating. That doesn't mean I care if anyone does it. It doesn't mean I think GS shouldn't allow it. It just means I might razz my friends about it if they do it. And some might razz me about it if I do it.

 

Absolutely! And if a lackey or two takes some ribbing for TCM, well, they chose to do it.

[+dprovan]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

I know! I'm going to get so much grief about that!

 

Absolutely! And if a lackey or two takes some ribbing for TCM, well, they chose to do it.

You phrase this in the future tense, but I think its fair to say those lackeys have already taken some ribbing right here in this thread.

[+niraD]

Okay, I've lost track. Are "Slackeys" the Lackeys who don't go geocaching, or are "Slackeys" the Lackeys who cheat when they go geocaching? Or both? Or something else?

 

When in Rome!...

[TahoeJoe]

I find it amusing that a Three Cache Monte is a play on words of a Three Card Monte which is a confidence game to con someone. I'll leave it at that.

[+cheech gang]

I have officially banned myself from commenting further in this hopeless thread for fear of saying something I may regret. SEEYA DUDES.

[+narcissa]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

 

I tried to think of any other topic where this logic makes sense. I only found one.

 

This is true:

"Complaining about complaining is complaining."

 

Otherwise, your statement makes as much sense as:

"Complaining about Monday is Monday."

 

Austin

 

If geocaching is a game where it is actually possible to "cheat" (a highly suspect notion in and of itself) then using accusations of "cheating" to modify other people's geocaching behaviour is cheating as much as TCM or sharing puzzle solutions.

 

It's not actually possible to "cheat" in geocaching (except, perhaps, cheating yourself) so complaining about cheating is cheating as much as anything else, because there really is no cheating.

[+Mudfrog]

This thread was started as a shortcut to boost finds. I would have to agree that TCM goes against one of the basic principals of geocaching which is to sign the log and put it back in the cache. Remember virtual caches? As I remember they were grandfathered because of log issues. I'd sure disapprove if someone were to use the TCM approach on one of my 13 year old caches. Numbers have created a dark side to geocaching for some. Are numbers really that important? ...... Not for this player, that's all they are, just numbers.

 

From Geocaching 101, "How is the game played":

 

7.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

I agree, those who run PTs using TCM and other various techniques to quickly increase find count are playing a game. This is all fine and well but they shouldn't be telling anyone that they are geocaching.

 

Yes, numbers have created a dark side.

[+AustinMN]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

 

I tried to think of any other topic where this logic makes sense. I only found one.

 

This is true:

"Complaining about complaining is complaining."

 

Otherwise, your statement makes as much sense as:

"Complaining about Monday is Monday."

 

Austin

 

If geocaching is a game where it is actually possible to "cheat" (a highly suspect notion in and of itself) then using accusations of "cheating" to modify other people's geocaching behaviour is cheating as much as TCM or sharing puzzle solutions.

 

It's not actually possible to "cheat" in geocaching (except, perhaps, cheating yourself) so complaining about cheating is cheating as much as anything else, because there really is no cheating.

 

I see, so it's OK for me to steal trackables and really creative hides?

 

No, those are examples of the ultimate in cheating, and they really are cheating. I would expect even you to complain about it.

 

Your statement still has no meaning.

[+narcissa]

Complaining about cheating is cheating.

 

I tried to think of any other topic where this logic makes sense. I only found one.

 

This is true:

"Complaining about complaining is complaining."

 

Otherwise, your statement makes as much sense as:

"Complaining about Monday is Monday."

 

Austin

 

If geocaching is a game where it is actually possible to "cheat" (a highly suspect notion in and of itself) then using accusations of "cheating" to modify other people's geocaching behaviour is cheating as much as TCM or sharing puzzle solutions.

 

It's not actually possible to "cheat" in geocaching (except, perhaps, cheating yourself) so complaining about cheating is cheating as much as anything else, because there really is no cheating.

 

I see, so it's OK for me to steal trackables and really creative hides?

 

No, those are examples of the ultimate in cheating, and they really are cheating. I would expect even you to complain about it.

 

Your statement still has no meaning.

 

Theft and vandalism aren't cheating. They're theft and vandalism.

 

Yes, complaints about cheating have no meaning.

 

I am not familiar with you so I can't remark about what I expect you to do, sorry.

[+niraD]

I find it amusing that a Three Cache Monte is a play on words of a Three Card Monte which is a confidence game to con someone. I'll leave it at that.

"Here's the cache. Keep your eye on the cache. Where's the cache? Right there? I'm sorry, sir. That's some other cache. Look, I'll make it easy for you this time. Here's the cache. Keep your eye on the cache. Where's the cache? Right there? I'm sorry, sir. That's some other cache again. Tough break, sir."

[+Roman!]

This thread was started as a shortcut to boost finds. I would have to agree that TCM goes against one of the basic principals of geocaching which is to sign the log and put it back in the cache. Remember virtual caches? As I remember they were grandfathered because of log issues. I'd sure disapprove if someone were to use the TCM approach on one of my 13 year old caches. Numbers have created a dark side to geocaching for some. Are numbers really that important? ...... Not for this player, that's all they are, just numbers.

 

From Geocaching 101, "How is the game played":

 

7.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

I agree, those who run PTs using TCM and other various techniques to quickly increase find count are playing a game. This is all fine and well but they shouldn't be telling anyone that they are geocaching.

 

Yes, numbers have created a dark side.

 

That is a guidleline so new cachers don't take the container home or move it to a "better spot" both action which can result in DNFs for future cachers. On a power trail using TCM the cacher does pkace a container in the exact same spot so there is a cache for the next cacher to find.

 

What about the other steps? Are you cheating if you don't do them? You must be, hence we are all cheaters

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

There are many other levels to the game. Keep reading the guide to learn more!

 

Now read the last line that says keep reading the guide, it doesn't say rule book, the only rules are those where it states they are rules and even those seem to be negotiable.

 

Maybe there is a dark side to you, many others don't agree, I think puzzle caches are the dark side.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Roman!

[TahoeJoe]

This thread was started as a shortcut to boost finds. I would have to agree that TCM goes against one of the basic principals of geocaching which is to sign the log and put it back in the cache. Remember virtual caches? As I remember they were grandfathered because of log issues. I'd sure disapprove if someone were to use the TCM approach on one of my 13 year old caches. Numbers have created a dark side to geocaching for some. Are numbers really that important? ...... Not for this player, that's all they are, just numbers.

 

From Geocaching 101, "How is the game played":

 

7.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

I agree, those who run PTs using TCM and other various techniques to quickly increase find count are playing a game. This is all fine and well but they shouldn't be telling anyone that they are geocaching.

 

Yes, numbers have created a dark side.

 

That is a guidleline so new cachers don't take the container home or move it to a "better spot" both action which can result in DNFs for future cachers. On a power trail using TCM the cacher does pkace a container in the exact same spot so there is a cache for the next cacher to find.

 

What about the other steps? Are you cheating if you don't do them? You must be, hence we are all cheaters

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

There are many other levels to the game. Keep reading the guide to learn more!

 

Now read the last line that says keep reading the guide, it doesn't say rule book, the only rules are those where it states they are rules and even those seem to be negotiable.

 

Maybe there is a dark side to you, many others don't agree, I think puzzle caches are the dark side.

It doesn't say rules because last time i looked, geocaching was not a competitive sport; it’s a game with no winners and no losers. Technically there is also no cheating, as we are not competing against anyone. Numbers are irrelevant. That is why they are called guidelines on the website. However, I do see a code of ethics involved about how you choose to play the game within the geocaching community. I think if you choose to play against the ethics implied within the community and tell everybody about it, you are going to get quite a few strong responses in the forums. You have made it obvious how you choose to play; just don’t expect the majority of members on these forms to agree with you. Just go out and play the game how it works best for you. As long as you are not bothering cache owners with FCM’s all will be calm and no one will be the wiser.

[+L0ne.R]

1430877619[/url]' post='5502166']

I'm sorry but I can't go along with the TCM approach, I think it waters down and cheapens the game.

It removes one of the basic precepts of the game which is, find a cache, sign the log and rehide for the next geocacher to find.

If this were to become accepted practice then I would be able to go find your cache,(it could be any of you) sign the log and because I'm too busy or time is short or I'm too lazy. "insert your excuse here", take the cache and drop it off at the next cache I find, pick up that one and repeat.

Geocaching would become Geochaos.

 

I'm not going to play the game that way but most assuredly, there are some that would, or at least would try..

 

I agree.

I think TCM finders want their 100s of TCM finds in-a-day respected and legitimized by all of the caching community and by Groundspeak.

 

[+L0ne.R]

1430948800[/url]' post='5502583']

1430946800[/url]' post='5502575']

1430942827[/url]' post='5502541']

1430879646[/url]' post='5502180']

This thread was started as a shortcut to boost finds. I would have to agree that TCM goes against one of the basic principals of geocaching which is to sign the log and put it back in the cache. Remember virtual caches? As I remember they were grandfathered because of log issues. I'd sure disapprove if someone were to use the TCM approach on one of my 13 year old caches. Numbers have created a dark side to geocaching for some. Are numbers really that important? ...... Not for this player, that's all they are, just numbers.

 

From Geocaching 101, "How is the game played":

 

7.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

I agree, those who run PTs using TCM and other various techniques to quickly increase find count are playing a game. This is all fine and well but they shouldn't be telling anyone that they are geocaching.

 

Yes, numbers have created a dark side.

 

That is a guidleline so new cachers don't take the container home or move it to a "better spot" both action which can result in DNFs for future cachers. On a power trail using TCM the cacher does pkace a container in the exact same spot so there is a cache for the next cacher to find.

 

What about the other steps? Are you cheating if you don't do them? You must be, hence we are all cheaters

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

There are many other levels to the game. Keep reading the guide to learn more!

 

Now read the last line that says keep reading the guide, it doesn't say rule book, the only rules are those where it states they are rules and even those seem to be negotiable.

 

Maybe there is a dark side to you, many others don't agree, I think puzzle caches are the dark side.

It doesn't say rules because last time i looked, geocaching was not a competitive sport; it's a game with no winners and no losers. Technically there is also no cheating, as we are not competing against anyone. Numbers are irrelevant. That is why they are called guidelines on the website. However, I do see a code of ethics involved about how you choose to play the game within the geocaching community. I think if you choose to play against the ethics implied within the community and tell everybody about it, you are going to get quite a few strong responses in the forums. You have made it obvious how you choose to play; just don't expect the majority of members on these forms to agree with you. Just go out and play the game how it works best for you. As long as you are not bothering cache owners with FCM's all will be calm and no one will be the wiser.

 

Well said.

 

[+Mudfrog]

This thread was started as a shortcut to boost finds. I would have to agree that TCM goes against one of the basic principals of geocaching which is to sign the log and put it back in the cache. Remember virtual caches? As I remember they were grandfathered because of log issues. I'd sure disapprove if someone were to use the TCM approach on one of my 13 year old caches. Numbers have created a dark side to geocaching for some. Are numbers really that important? ...... Not for this player, that's all they are, just numbers.

 

From Geocaching 101, "How is the game played":

 

7.Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

 

I agree, those who run PTs using TCM and other various techniques to quickly increase find count are playing a game. This is all fine and well but they shouldn't be telling anyone that they are geocaching.

 

Yes, numbers have created a dark side.

 

 

That is a guidleline so new cachers don't take the container home or move it to a "better spot" both action which can result in DNFs for future cachers. On a power trail using TCM the cacher does pkace a container in the exact same spot so there is a cache for the next cacher to find.

 

What about the other steps? Are you cheating if you don't do them? You must be, hence we are all cheaters

 

Register for a free Basic Membership.

Visit the "Hide & Seek a Cache" page.

Enter your postal code and click "search."

Choose any geocache from the list and click on its name.

Enter the coordinates of the geocache into your GPS Device.

Use your GPS device to assist you in finding the hidden geocache.

Sign the logbook and return the geocache to its original location.

Share your geocaching stories and photos online.

There are many other levels to the game. Keep reading the guide to learn more!

 

Now read the last line that says keep reading the guide, it doesn't say rule book, the only rules are those where it states they are rules and even those seem to be negotiable.

 

Maybe there is a dark side to you, many others don't agree, I think puzzle caches are the dark side.

 

I never said anything about cheating. I stated that three cache monty and some of those other techniques used to up smiley count are not geocaching. Putting a container in place of one you took may be fine on some power trails but it's not a practice that most of us want to come across whe we are actually geocaching.

 

I know there is no fine line on what constitutes a power trail but it would be nice if one could be established so that they could be separated from and not affect geocaches.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Mudfrog

[+narcissa]

I know there is no fine line on what constitutes a power trail but it would be nice if one could be established so that they could be separated from and not affect geocaches.

 

I think this is what is really lacking. If someone wants to throw a pill bottle out the window of a van every 160 yards on a utility road in the hinterlands, hooray for them, doesn't affect me.

 

It's when this behaviour starts being applied beyond "power trails" - and it does - that it becomes bothersome to cache owners and problematic for honest geocachers. If we could better differentiate between this variation of geocaching, which some people apparently enjoy, and original-style geocaching, there would be less conflict. It would validate those who seem to need the validation, and give the rest of us a clear way to differentiate our geocaches and our geocaching from that.

[knowschad]

I repeat:

 

From another thread:

When I was a kid we played street hockey in our cul-de-sac and there was a grumpy old man who always sat on his front lawn and yelled at us whenever we shot the ball onto his yard. All my friends were scared to go retrieve it so I always did, in fact sometimes I even purposely shot the ball onto his lawn.

 

Deep down I know he liked me because I gave him something to do, a purpose in life and I truly believe he lived longer and happier.

 

What do you folks think is happening here? Just walk away and let Roman! play his silly game by himself.