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Replacement Logs


JRank
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I've recently started carrying around some replacement logs for when I encounter a soaked/ruined/filled log sheet. I was just wondering what the etiquette is for the original log sheet? Should I just leave it in there since it's not my cache, or is it ok to throw it out?

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I've recently started carrying around some replacement logs for when I encounter a soaked/ruined/filled log sheet. I was just wondering what the etiquette is for the original log sheet? Should I just leave it in there since it's not my cache, or is it ok to throw it out?

I would suggest leaving it, regardless of the shape it's in. I'm sure you'll get a variety of opinions on the subject, and it may depend on the circumstances and condition of the cache. The bottom line is that the cache belongs to someone, and they are responsible for it, not you or I.

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I would leave the original even if it means there's no room for a replacement. The CO will usually be grateful to you for adding a clean log, but the original log is their property and isn't yours to take. Just submit a Needs Maintenance log so they can deal with it.

 

EDIT: Also carrying spare logs is a good idea - I'll take up the habit in future!

Edited by The Jackdaw
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Consider whether you are enabling poor cache ownership. When people hide caches they agree to a maintenance plan. If they hide micros (especially nanos) it means that there will likely be more maintenance required. If they use a poor quality container, their logsheet/book won't stay dry. People need to learn what works and what does not. Post 'Needs Maintenance' logs. If the cache is abandoned and already has NM logs, post 'Needs Archive' logs. Let the space become available for someone who will hopefully take pride in their hides. If you replace a logsheet in a leaky container, that logsheet will also become a wet moldy mess. Will you be back to replace it again when there's a problem or will you also abandon the problem container you pseudo-adopted?

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As touchstone says, it depends on the circumstances.

 

On two occasions I have removed a log from a cache. In both cases, there was nothing left but rotting pulp. On more than 20 I've added a sheet and left the original in place. On hundreds of occasions I signed a damp log.

 

I will NM if it's called for (i.e. log is too wet to sign or worse).

 

Austin

Edited by AustinMN
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Here's my example of what I think people should not do. I see this type of thing about once every 50 cache finds. The cache is in gross shape. The owner doesn't maintain it. Yet someone plops a new logsheet inside (which ends up wet and moldy after a few short weeks). Finding a gross wet moldy cache is not fun.

 

39ab8c37-71f3-4a71-877b-3ceaa377cec6_l.jpg

 

 

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Consider whether you are enabling poor cache ownership. When people hide caches they agree to a maintenance plan. If they hide micros (especially nanos) it means that there will likely be more maintenance required. If they use a poor quality container, their logsheet/book won't stay dry. People need to learn what works and what does not. Post 'Needs Maintenance' logs. If the cache is abandoned and already has NM logs, post 'Needs Archive' logs. Let the space become available for someone who will hopefully take pride in their hides. If you replace a logsheet in a leaky container, that logsheet will also become a wet moldy mess. Will you be back to replace it again when there's a problem or will you also abandon the problem container you pseudo-adopted?

I agree but sometimes it could be a cacher who doesn't properly close the container. Decon containers many times I found only the front corners pressed down but the back corners are not, leaving a way for moisture. Or even Lock n Locks that might have something stuck in the seal. I may not want my caches replaced without permission but if my log is wet or chewed up from wear and tear, I would be thankful for a replacement.

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I've not read the whole thread so may be repeating what someone else has said. As you've no doubt seen its probably deteriorated into "keeping a cache going that should have been archived because the owner has not maintained a cache". Or something along those lines.

 

Switch it. You would have had to go and replace that log a few miles down the road ... someone save you the journey. Say thank you and you've made a friend in the caching world. You'll meet them at an event and you can get on.

 

So basiclly ignore everything you read here and be yourself. If you are the type of person to who is a kind person and wants to help and you feel like that would help. Be yourself and do it. Don't overthink it. There is no etiquette apart from that some CO's keep them to check to see if someone has lied about finding the cache. That's all. Offer to send them a pic if they require it in your log that says you replaced it. 99% will never contact you. But they will be grateful because it's normal human behaviour. Simple.

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1429767649[/url]' post='5497380']

I've not read the whole thread so may be repeating what someone else has said. As you've no doubt seen its probably deteriorated into "keeping a cache going that should have been archived because the owner has not maintained a cache". Or something along those lines.

 

Switch it. You would have had to go and replace that log a few miles down the road ... someone save you the journey. Say thank you and you've made a friend in the caching world. You'll meet them at an event and you can get on.

 

So basiclly ignore everything you read here and be yourself. If you are the type of person to who is a kind person and wants to help and you feel like that would help. Be yourself and do it. Don't overthink it. There is no etiquette apart from that some CO's keep them to check to see if someone has lied about finding the cache. That's all. Offer to send them a pic if they require it in your log that says you replaced it. 99% will never contact you. But they will be grateful because it's normal human behaviour. Simple.

 

We have a prolific hider in our parts that rarely maintains his caches but regularly hides more caches. The photo is an example of one of his hides. He would very much thank you for adding a new logsheet. I'm sure he feels that people make too much of a fuss about owner maintenance. It's the smiley that counts and getting outdoors. I say take pride in your areas caches. Think of the people who spend gas money, hotel money, and vacation time to cache and would enjoy finding quality caches in your town.

Not that I'm completely against helping. But only those caches with an active owner and a quality cache container. The OP states he wants to add logs to soaked ruined caches. Such a cache needs a NM since the container has a problem that requires attention. The replaced log will likely also become soaked and ruined.

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Oh I don't disagree with you at all. But in reality what happens is you do it for a while and then you kind of don't. Or you do for your caching friends if you have spare logs.

 

Wet logs here in the UK are a matter of course. Sodden logs are less common and mush is maybe - 1 in 20 caches if that.

 

It's no big deal. Not closing the cache properly and trapping a bag edge breaks the seal. The seal goes. Finding it in the rain can cause moisture. Themed containers might not be watertight entirely. But this does not make the cache owner a poor cache owner/maintainer if they don't rush out to sort someone's opinion of damp log. The logs do dry out even from sodden lumps.

 

The mark of a needs maintence I believe is ... pulp in a puddle. Remove the pulp. Replace if you can. Report if you must. It happens to us all. Well look we could debate till the cows come home ... we would both be right a different times lol. I think we only log a needs maint now (because we've learnt), if it's clearly missing (even then we've been bitten), or the container is cracked/broken. Some we see here though ... blimey ... needs maint because the grass was too long and I can show you the log lol.

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If we find a soaked log I replace it with a dry clean one and take the other one out if it is a tiny one, as there would not be room for a second dry one. But if it is a large enough container I leave the original one in and place a clean dry one in, I then let the CO know what I have done. I would be happy enough if someone replaced one of mine if soaked if I could not get to it straight away. Just the other day we placed a small log into a poly bag as it was getting a bit damp, there was still room for the log to go back into the container.

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There are a lot of micro and nano caches around here, and of course the logs get filled up quickly, and sometimes they get wet if the rubber gasket has fallen off. I usually look at the previous logs online before we go out to find a cache. If I see several logs complaining about a wet log, or a log in a micro that has no more room to sign it, I bring along a replacement to put in the cache. Of course, you can't leave the old wet log inside a bison tube or a smaller nano, so I bring it home and add a note in our "Found" log asking the owner to let me know if they want the old log back. (No one has ever asked for an old log back, in the 9 years we've been caching.)

 

As a cache owner, I am always grateful when someone has replaced a log in one of our caches! I especially love it when someone takes the time to dry out a wet larger size box and rebag the logbook, and I do the same for other cachers when appropriate. Sometimes we just don't have a chance to go out on a maintenance run for a while, and it's great that cachers will help each other out. When you've spent the time and effort to set up a cache, you don't want to diappoint finders who may not be able to sign the wet log.

 

We are not possessive about our log books or strips, and we don't doublecheck all the entries; although I've heard some cache owners will do that. I do read all the log entries for our caches as recorded on the website, and I think most people leave their better logs there rather than in the logbook in the cache.

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As a cache owner I wouldn't want other cachers to handle my cache issues. I put decent log books in my caches and like to get them back. There are paintings, nice stamps and stories you don't find in the online logs.

 

My caches are weather proof, so I've no worries about wet logs. They're get checked regularly, so no other cacher should have the urge to make maintenance runs for me.

 

As a cacher I would like the same standards apply to other caches. A non-maintained cache rarely is worth beeing kept in play: box quality, location and even the listing mostly is crap then as well. There is no need to encourage non-maintaining cache-owners and crappy caches.

 

There are exceptions, yes: A basic cleaning of the box, including seals and lids, is no problem. I'm totally open to cache-owners asking me to perform maintenance to their caches, and did it already. I just recently adopted a really nice multi cache from 2005 which the owner is no longer able to maintain due to health issues.

 

So my philosophy:

• don't keep caches in play just for the sake of itself (those times are gone, especially in high density areas)

• don't replace logbooks or whole boxes (throwdowns) with no specific authorization of the owner (no, a lazy listing entry doesn't qualify)

• post "needs maintenance" and, if appropriate, "needs archived" (help cleaning up the area, then!)

• put pride in your own caches, with durable containers, high quality logbooks, wonderful locations and nice listings, then you will get cool logbook entries worth the effort to keep the books.

• keep your own caches maintained

 

If you do so, then thank you very much for keeping the whole game in good shape!

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I agree with those who remove the damaged log. As has been stated, putting a rotting, yukky and wet log back in on top of a new log just doesn't make sense. Also, if the log is completely full, and IF there is room for the full log and the replacement log (that I supply), then I'll leave the old log. But in ALL cases, I notify the CO and ask if they want me to send them the old log. I've done this at least ten times and have NEVER had to send one on. All CO's were just happy that I replaced it and they didn't have to tend to that cache.

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There is no harm in replacing a log when it is needed and you will be very hard pressed to ever find a cache owner who objects to that action. Finders behind you will be happy that they had a space to sign or didn't have to sign a mush pile.

 

If a cache owner does object, well, they had to go there to do maintenance anyway so you have not caused them any extra work and, actually, you have saved them a trip.

 

If the log existing log is readable but full to the gills then it must be left in the container unless there is absolutely no room. If the old one won't fit I take it with me and make a note on my Found It log that I have it and will keep it available for about 30 days.

 

I have replaced a loooootttt of cache logs over the years and have never had a cache owner complain or ask for the full log.

 

I, too, carry a cache repair bag containing logsheets, ziplocs, paper towels and all the Subway and Starbucks napkins that collect in the car when traveling and will dry out containers and trading goods as well as removing moldy goods and trash that I find in the container.

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