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Pause on New Challenge Caches

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In my opinion the regulations for upcoming challenge caches should be quite strict, trying to preserve as well as refresh the spirit of geocaching.
So, just what is the spirit of geocaching?

 

Once you go beyond the basics (navigate to specific GPS coordinates and search for a container hidden at that location), I don't think there is any one spirit of geocaching. For some, it's a pleasant hike in the woods ending in an ammo can full of trinkets. For some, it's tiny, deviously camouflaged containers hidden in plain sight. For others, it's multi-caches that take you on a walking tour of historic locations. For others, it's a quick easy find with their kids at a neighborhood park. For others, it's the reward at the end of a technical 5-star terrain journey. For others, it's a reward for solving a brain-busting puzzle. For others, it's a cache that draws attention to public art. For others, it's a reward for completing a specific set of goals, finding other caches that meet some specific criteria. For others, it's a lesson in geology. For others, it's the challenge of figuring out how a clever gadget cache works. For others, it's something else entirely. For others, it's all of these, none of these, or any combination of these at various times.

 

If challenge caches return, then they need to accommodate various "spirits of geocaching", not just one group's vision for the One True Spirit of Geocaching™.

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In my opinion the regulations for upcoming challenge caches should be quite strict, trying to preserve as well as refresh the spirit of geocaching.
So, just what is the spirit of geocaching?

 

Once you go beyond the basics (navigate to specific GPS coordinates and search for a container hidden at that location), I don't think there is any one spirit of geocaching. For some, it's a pleasant hike in the woods ending in an ammo can full of trinkets. For some, it's tiny, deviously camouflaged containers hidden in plain sight. For others, it's multi-caches that take you on a walking tour of historic locations. For others, it's a quick easy find with their kids at a neighborhood park. For others, it's the reward at the end of a technical 5-star terrain journey. For others, it's a reward for solving a brain-busting puzzle. For others, it's a cache that draws attention to public art. For others, it's a reward for completing a specific set of goals, finding other caches that meet some specific criteria. For others, it's a lesson in geology. For others, it's the challenge of figuring out how a clever gadget cache works. For others, it's something else entirely. For others, it's all of these, none of these, or any combination of these at various times.

 

If challenge caches return, then they need to accommodate various "spirits of geocaching", not just one group's vision for the One True Spirit of Geocaching™.

 

I'm not going to try and define the One True Spirit of Geocaching either. While your post includes a description of many ways one might play the the game, it mostly describes preferences in the types of caches one might find or what motivates geocachers to continue to play the game.

 

For me, there's one thing missing from the list. As I see it, one of the most important aspects in the spirit of geocaching is the sense of community. At the basic level there are people that hide caches for others to find and hopefully those that find them share their experience and show some appreciation to those that hide geocaches. That is where I've seen *some* challenge caches as not within the spirit of the community. At times it looks like the "challenge" seems to make the criteria so difficult that it effectively excludes 99% of geocachers from being able to "find" the cache. Like an "impossible" puzzle or a hide so difficult or so remote (hello ISS cache) that only 3-4 people in the world might ever log it as found, a challenge that is so difficult that only 3-4 people would ever qualify for the criteria doesn't serve any useful purpose. To me, creating a cache so exclusive that practically no one will ever find it, is not in the spirit of geocaching.

 

This game would not exist if not for a community of people playing the game both as hiders and seekers. Creating a cache which basically excludes most of the community just doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

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Creating a cache which basically excludes most of the community just doesn't make sense to me.

That standard would exclude most caches that involve SCUBA diving, cliff rappelling, rock climbing, high tree climbing, boating, D4+ puzzling, or T4+ hiking. While only a small segment of the geocaching community enjoy each of these specialized hide types, I think they all fall within the spirit of geocaching.

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1445021940[/url]' post='5543305']
1445015891[/url]' post='5543287']
1445014715[/url]' post='5543285']In my opinion the regulations for upcoming challenge caches should be quite strict, trying to preserve as well as refresh the spirit of geocaching.
So, just what is the spirit of geocaching?

 

Once you go beyond the basics (navigate to specific GPS coordinates and search for a container hidden at that location), I don't think there is any one spirit of geocaching. For some, it's a pleasant hike in the woods ending in an ammo can full of trinkets. For some, it's tiny, deviously camouflaged containers hidden in plain sight. For others, it's multi-caches that take you on a walking tour of historic locations. For others, it's a quick easy find with their kids at a neighborhood park. For others, it's the reward at the end of a technical 5-star terrain journey. For others, it's a reward for solving a brain-busting puzzle. For others, it's a cache that draws attention to public art. For others, it's a reward for completing a specific set of goals, finding other caches that meet some specific criteria. For others, it's a lesson in geology. For others, it's the challenge of figuring out how a clever gadget cache works. For others, it's something else entirely. For others, it's all of these, none of these, or any combination of these at various times.

 

If challenge caches return, then they need to accommodate various "spirits of geocaching", not just one group's vision for the One True Spirit of Geocaching™.

 

I'm not going to try and define the One True Spirit of Geocaching either. While your post includes a description of many ways one might play the the game, it mostly describes preferences in the types of caches one might find or what motivates geocachers to continue to play the game.

 

For me, there's one thing missing from the list. As I see it, one of the most important aspects in the spirit of geocaching is the sense of community. At the basic level there are people that hide caches for others to find and hopefully those that find them share their experience and show some appreciation to those that hide geocaches. That is where I've seen *some* challenge caches as not within the spirit of the community. At times it looks like the "challenge" seems to make the criteria so difficult that it effectively excludes 99% of geocachers from being able to "find" the cache. Like an "impossible" puzzle or a hide so difficult or so remote (hello ISS cache) that only 3-4 people in the world might ever log it as found, a challenge that is so difficult that only 3-4 people would ever qualify for the criteria doesn't serve any useful purpose. To me, creating a cache so exclusive that practically no one will ever find it, is not in the spirit of geocaching.

 

This game would not exist if not for a community of people playing the game both as hiders and seekers. Creating a cache which basically excludes most of the community just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Well said.

To deny someone a find for a cache they have found is mean spirited and elitist. It's not a positive contribution to the community. Except to those who like being members of an elitist club and have something others can't have. They get to deny something that once was a geocaching site given, that if you found and signed a cache log you would add it to your list of finds on the site, then use the site tools to accurately reflect your finds, and filter out your finds. That right belongs to the power cachers now.

 

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I'm thinking that because of the fact that there are as many opinions about challenge caches as there are actual cachers, the odds are they will decide they don't know what the heck to do with them and scrap 'em altogether.

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I'm thinking that because of the fact that there are as many opinions about challenge caches as there are actual cachers, the odds are they will decide they don't know what the heck to do with them and scrap 'em altogether.
I don't know that they'll scrap the idea of challenge caches altogether. But I'm pretty sure they won't return in their current form. If it were an option for challenge caches to return in their current form, then I don't think Groundspeak would have imposed the moratorium in the first place.

 

Something must change.

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I hope that the geographic challenges at least remain. I know I can still have a good experience by logging caches in every county in a given state. But logging a challenge cache afterward gives me more of a sense of accomplishment.

 

(Which is why I'm still disappointed New Mexico has no county challenge, other than a poorly maintained series of individual caches. But I digress.)

 

I did just sort through a pile of local challenges to see that, yep, I qualify for just about all of them based on things I've already done. Odd achievements that I would probably not have bothered to purposefully do, like, for a given day of each month, have double digits in combined finds. Though I did actually go out after work yesterday to score eight finds, as I was only one day off, I would not have looked at this challenge and said, "Yes! I MUST accumulate ten finds on the 15th of each month so I can log this cache!"

 

Bottom line, the longer I cache without challenges in mind, the more many of them become a mere exercise in checking GSAK or some other challenge checker to see if I qualify for not, then finding it if I do and ignoring it if I don't. I can probably live without many of those challenges, and I will neither don ashes and sackcloth nor wail and gnash my teeth if they go away.

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To deny someone a find for a cache they have found is mean spirited and elitist. It's not a positive contribution to the community.

Why do you single out hard challenge caches and ignore hard hides? I fail to see why it's any less mean spirited or elitist, or more of a positive contribution to deny someone a find for a cache that they can't find.

 

Except to those who like being members of an elitist club and have something others can't have. They get to deny something that once was a geocaching site given, that if you found and signed a cache log you would add it to your list of finds on the site, then use the site tools to accurately reflect your finds, and filter out your finds. That right belongs to the power cachers now.

The problem with this complaint -- which, as far as I can tell, is basically the only complaint against challenge caches -- is that it highlights a very rare type of specialized challenge cache and uses it to wipe out all the other challenge caches that require only a reasonable amount of effort. I really dislike impossibly hard hides, too, but it doesn't lead me to the conclusion that caching is bad because some people hide caches that are impossible to find for all but the most elite searchers.

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1445036834[/url]' post='5543344']
1445025430[/url]' post='5543311']

Except to those who like being members of an elitist club and have something others can't have. They get to deny something that once was a geocaching site given, that if you found and signed a cache log you would add it to your list of finds on the site, then use the site tools to accurately reflect your finds, and filter out your finds. That right belongs to the power cachers now.

The problem with this complaint -- which, as far as I can tell, is basically the only complaint against challenge caches -- is that it highlights a very rare type of specialized challenge cache and uses it to wipe out all the other challenge caches that require only a reasonable amount of effort. I really dislike impossibly hard hides, too, but it doesn't lead me to the conclusion that caching is bad because some people hide caches that are impossible to find for all but the most elite searchers.

 

Not the only complaint, I have a long list of them. But it's the number one complaint for me. (#2 is how they've fostered an ever growing power caching mentality, where most caches are treated as chips to cash in for the coveted challenge cache smiley prize).

 

I haven't concluded or suggested that all caching is bad because of challenge caches. But I do think that elitist caches, especially those that prevent other cachers from using the site tools, like find counts and PQs, as they were initially intended before challenge caches arrived on the scene.

Edited by L0ne.R

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Well said.

To deny someone a find for a cache they have found is mean spirited and elitist. It's not a positive contribution to the community. Except to those who like being members of an elitist club and have something others can't have. They get to deny something that once was a geocaching site given, that if you found and signed a cache log you would add it to your list of finds on the site, then use the site tools to accurately reflect your finds, and filter out your finds. That right belongs to the power cachers now.

 

Which means what? That geocaching should be a communist activity with a single D and T rating for every single cache?

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I hope that the geographic challenges at least remain. I know I can still have a good experience by logging caches in every county in a given state. But logging a challenge cache afterward gives me more of a sense of accomplishment.

 

(Which is why I'm still disappointed New Mexico has no county challenge, other than a poorly maintained series of individual caches. But I digress.)

 

I did just sort through a pile of local challenges to see that, yep, I qualify for just about all of them based on things I've already done. Odd achievements that I would probably not have bothered to purposefully do, like, for a given day of each month, have double digits in combined finds. Though I did actually go out after work yesterday to score eight finds, as I was only one day off, I would not have looked at this challenge and said, "Yes! I MUST accumulate ten finds on the 15th of each month so I can log this cache!"

 

Bottom line, the longer I cache without challenges in mind, the more many of them become a mere exercise in checking GSAK or some other challenge checker to see if I qualify for not, then finding it if I do and ignoring it if I don't. I can probably live without many of those challenges, and I will neither don ashes and sackcloth nor wail and gnash my teeth if they go away.

 

I rather agree. The geographic ones are fun and take me to places I seldom visit. We had fun on the NJ DeLorme and NJ Counties Challenges. (Might try to finish the Maine County Challenge next year. Only need three counties.) (Out of boredom, I have taken to working on the Pennsylvania County challenge. Added seven counties this year, but I'll probably never finish.)

Did the cache hidden on every day of the year. My partner just needed one day, so we stopped off on that one.

Ones on the GPS now: Jasmer - working on that.

Finds on 366 days of the year. I qualified because I went for a Feb. 29 cache, just to color the year in. My partner did not qualify so we didn't bother going for it. I may go someday, when I'm bored.

Contiguous adjacent counties, which extend to at least 20 different states. Wouldn't even bother.

Ten LetterBox Hybrids. If I'm in the area...

Silly ones I've done: Twelve pairs of cache with the same animal in the name. Noah's Ark. We were nearby. But I don't think Noah had dolphins or mosquitos on his ark.

Cache hidden on the day you joined Geocaching. Again, we were nearby.

Yes, we did find eight different types of caches I one day. But we were in an area we had never cached before, and had my brother driving.

Yes: Some are fun and worth working at. Some are just silly but I qualified, and was nearby. I would not miss those. Some are obtuse and deliberately nasty. Those should just go away.

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Some are obtuse and deliberately nasty. Those should just go away.

 

And again it come to this: "Some are (to you) obtuse and deliberately nasty. Those should just go away (if up to you)".

 

The same can be said of any other cachetype.

The "not attainable by enough people" is a joke argument too. How many logged the ISS?

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Some are obtuse and deliberately nasty. Those should just go away.

 

And again it come to this: "Some are (to you) obtuse and deliberately nasty. Those should just go away (if up to you)".

 

The same can be said of any other cachetype.

The "not attainable by enough people" is a joke argument too. How many logged the ISS?

 

Ah. Then you think that anything and everything that any geocachers might enjoy should be permissible? Bar code caches? Locationless caches. (Hey. I did enjoy them.) Caches every twelve feet?

Groundspeak decides what does and does not work for it. And, obviously, to Groundspeak, Challenge Caches are a major concern. I am curious to see what Groundspeak decides upon. My guess is that they will eliminate most of them, and create a new category for Challenge Caches. Qualify for Jasmer? Here is the one Jasmer Challenge Cache. The only 'cache found on every day of the year.' And the inane ones will disappear.

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The problem with just one Jasmer (or whatever) challenge is that it automatically becomes unavailable to the vast majority of cachers. If it is physically in, say, Texas then most non-American cachers won't be able to get it. Can I have it in NSW, please?

 

The alternative is to make it a souvenir, which is completely against the way I enjoy challenges.

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The problem with just one Jasmer (or whatever) challenge is that it automatically becomes unavailable to the vast majority of cachers. If it is physically in, say, Texas then most non-American cachers won't be able to get it. Can I have it in NSW, please?

 

The alternative is to make it a souvenir, which is completely against the way I enjoy challenges.

There nothing to say you, or someone else, can't hide a Jasmer challenge cache in NSW. According to the cache page on GC1GBC1 others are encouraged to hide similar caches. There at least sixty caches available in the US and worldwide. Being unavailable is not an excuse. Now finding the required caches in NSW might be a problem.

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Ah. Then you think that anything and everything that any geocachers might enjoy should be permissible? Bar code caches? Locationless caches. (Hey. I did enjoy them.) Caches every twelve feet?

 

You're reading things that are not there.

 

It's not because you, some, many people think certain challenges are unattainable, and therefore should not be allowed, that they are. Enough examples were given of extreme (D/T) caches that many if not most can't do.

Most arguments given here to do away with (many/most) challenges could be applied to other caches too and yet there seems to be no problem for them to exist.

ISS cache is perfect example. attainable by many? Nope, Non-commercial? Free ride anyone? Coordinates should be as precise as possible? Sure :ph34r: Anyone care to post a NA for guideline violations? If enough people complain to appeals the workload on that one could rise so a one year moratorium on spacecaches will be declared.

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The problem with just one Jasmer (or whatever) challenge is that it automatically becomes unavailable to the vast majority of cachers. If it is physically in, say, Texas then most non-American cachers won't be able to get it. Can I have it in NSW, please?

 

The alternative is to make it a souvenir, which is completely against the way I enjoy challenges.

 

How is that "..completely against the way I enjoy challenges."?

 

The only difference I see is that you don't get a smiley, but instead a badge or souvenir.

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The problem with just one Jasmer (or whatever) challenge is that it automatically becomes unavailable to the vast majority of cachers. If it is physically in, say, Texas then most non-American cachers won't be able to get it. Can I have it in NSW, please?

 

The alternative is to make it a souvenir, which is completely against the way I enjoy challenges.

 

How is that "..completely against the way I enjoy challenges."?

 

The only difference I see is that you don't get a smiley, but instead a badge or souvenir.

Because I enjoy the two components of a challenge cache. Completing the challenge and finding the cache. That's why they are called Challenge Caches. I'm planning a trip to Florida next year and there are a bunch of challenge caches there. I'm working on the challenges now and hope to complete the task by finding the caches then.

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Because I enjoy the two components of a challenge cache. Completing the challenge and finding the cache. That's why they are called Challenge Caches.

 

Same here. I don't care too much for some souvenirs (I have a bunch of them "hidden")

It's the combination challenge + physical cache that I enjoy most.

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The problem with just one Jasmer (or whatever) challenge is that it automatically becomes unavailable to the vast majority of cachers. If it is physically in, say, Texas then most non-American cachers won't be able to get it. Can I have it in NSW, please?

 

The alternative is to make it a souvenir, which is completely against the way I enjoy challenges.

 

Since Groundspeak put them in abeyance, something is afoot (or afin, or apaw, or awhatever.)

My guess would be a new category. Call them 'Challenges'. [:X]

One Jasmer Challenges, administered by Groundspeak. One Alpha-numeric Challenges, administered by Groundspeak.

The problem would be developing the software to determine is the geocacher actually fulfilled the challenges. (As opposed to CO's making that determination.) Obviously, Groundspeak does not have the manpower necessary for a flunky to review each log. Only to review when the claim is disallowed by the software. Even that would require a lot of manpower.

So, not a souvenir, but rather a new cache category. Obviously, not a cache in place to sign. Only one Fizzy Challenges. If I've claimed a find, the software would check my stats to see if I qualified. Then comes the manpower to argue "I found a cache hidden by 5Dolphins". And that is what is taking so long. "That cache was actually hidden by 3SnimpleSnakes, not 5Dolphins.

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I just find it fascinating that some folks think they are entitled to be included in every aspect of life.. and that those doing any excluding are somehow superior and elitist. Either hand it to me for free or do away with it for all. What a garbage philosophy.

 

The best way to fix the challenge problem is to require them to be single dimensional, period. Beyond that, they can be as easy or as difficult as you want them to be. After all, they ARE challenges, aren't they? Whiners can go home with their toys for mommy's comfort.

 

Flame away.. it won't bother me at all since I am not thin skinned.

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In my opinion the regulations for upcoming challenge caches should be quite strict, trying to preserve as well as refresh the spirit of geocaching.
So, just what is the spirit of geocaching?

 

Once you go beyond the basics (navigate to specific GPS coordinates and search for a container hidden at that location), I don't think there is any one spirit of geocaching. For some, it's a pleasant hike in the woods ending in an ammo can full of trinkets. For some, it's tiny, deviously camouflaged containers hidden in plain sight. For others, it's multi-caches that take you on a walking tour of historic locations. For others, it's a quick easy find with their kids at a neighborhood park. For others, it's the reward at the end of a technical 5-star terrain journey. For others, it's a reward for solving a brain-busting puzzle. For others, it's a cache that draws attention to public art. For others, it's a reward for completing a specific set of goals, finding other caches that meet some specific criteria. For others, it's a lesson in geology. For others, it's the challenge of figuring out how a clever gadget cache works. For others, it's something else entirely. For others, it's all of these, none of these, or any combination of these at various times.

 

If challenge caches return, then they need to accommodate various "spirits of geocaching", not just one group's vision for the One True Spirit of Geocaching™.

 

I'm not going to try and define the One True Spirit of Geocaching either. While your post includes a description of many ways one might play the the game, it mostly describes preferences in the types of caches one might find or what motivates geocachers to continue to play the game.

 

For me, there's one thing missing from the list. As I see it, one of the most important aspects in the spirit of geocaching is the sense of community. At the basic level there are people that hide caches for others to find and hopefully those that find them share their experience and show some appreciation to those that hide geocaches. That is where I've seen *some* challenge caches as not within the spirit of the community. At times it looks like the "challenge" seems to make the criteria so difficult that it effectively excludes 99% of geocachers from being able to "find" the cache. Like an "impossible" puzzle or a hide so difficult or so remote (hello ISS cache) that only 3-4 people in the world might ever log it as found, a challenge that is so difficult that only 3-4 people would ever qualify for the criteria doesn't serve any useful purpose. To me, creating a cache so exclusive that practically no one will ever find it, is not in the spirit of geocaching.

 

This game would not exist if not for a community of people playing the game both as hiders and seekers. Creating a cache which basically excludes most of the community just doesn't make sense to me.

 

I like what both of you have listed pertaining the "a" spirit of geocaching. I'm not saying "the" spirit of geocaching, since different people can have their own versions of what the spirit is.

 

One thing absent from both lists is speed, and I think it's accurate that speed is not included. It's hard for me to envision how finding X caches in Y hours is what geocaching is about. I don't see this hobby as a race, but I suppose some people do.

 

I am not bothered by the challenge caches that exist, even though I know I won't qualify for many of them. If someone out there can qualify, then more power to them. What does bother me is when cachers manipulate their statistics, place throwdowns, or claim false finds in order to qualify for certain challenges. It seems to me that the 'speed' challenges (find 200+ caches or 5+ states in one day) promote such activity more than other challenges. I don't have any proof of this, but just an opinion. I'm sure there are cachers claiming finds on T5's to fill a grid, or placing throwdowns on a "Frog..." cache in order to 'find' another 'animal named' cache. In such cases they are falsifying only a couple of finds, whereas speed cachers might be falsifying dozens of finds in just one day. I don't condone any of the falsifying, but I understand it's likely happening and can understand the POV that challenge caches contribute to the behavior. That doesn't mean that challenge caches are bad though. There are plenty of people that commit crimes in order to get more money and increase their 'status' (ie, wealth), but that doesn't mean the concept of money should go away.

 

Disclaimer: I'm planning to attempt 100 caches in one day, but I'll be signing every log sheet and not placing any throwdowns. I think it will be an interesting experience and 100 caches a day seems like a reasonable pace, compared to 1000+ that some cachers have attained. There are other threads (example, example) to discuss how that's attained though, so no need to muddy this thread with that.

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I just find it fascinating that some folks think they are entitled to be included in every aspect of life.. and that those doing any excluding are somehow superior and elitist. Either hand it to me for free or do away with it for all. What a garbage philosophy.

 

The best way to fix the challenge problem is to require them to be single dimensional, period. Beyond that, they can be as easy or as difficult as you want them to be. After all, they ARE challenges, aren't they? Whiners can go home with their toys for mommy's comfort.

 

Flame away.. it won't bother me at all since I am not thin skinned.

 

Don't feed the troll. It will only encourage him.

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I've been meaning to comment on this subject since Challenge Caches were banned, albeit temporarily I hope. From a personal viewpoint I love challenges! Not all of them no, and I agree that a lot of them are a bit silly such as find a cache on Valentine's Day. Not really much of a challenge but hey ho!

 

There are over 1100 challenges in the UK at the moment and I've actually looked at all of them. Of that list there's about 370 that I currently qualify for, and 240 that I think I might qualify for one day. Nearly 600 of them though are in my "Challenge Caches I have No Interest In Whatsoever" Bookmark List.

 

So in my case there are more challenges that I'm not interested in than those that I am BUT, and here's the rub, I really want to get the ones I am interested in. I'm not a numbers cacher, I like challenges be they caches or just personal targets like keeping my average D and T over 2 and getting my traditional's ratio lower and lower (currently just over 45%).

 

Most of the ones I'm not interested in involve Daily Streaks, Large Numbers in a Day and Church Micro based challenges. Others are just very easy with low D/T ratings or a bit silly(imho). However I know that although they're not for me they ARE for a lot of other cachers. Caching is what each individual makes of it. It's one of the great things about the hobby - there really is something for everyone. It doesn't matter two hoots whether there are challenges (or just traditionals for that matter) that I can't get; there are plenty there that I can.

 

Challenges are an integral and, for many people, an important part of geocaching and in my view we would be far worse off without them. I'd be more than happy to see them have their own icon. Have some guidelines if you must, such as not having to register intent before starting a challenge or not making the challenge so obtuse that trying to find out if you've qualified is harder than actually achieving the challenge! But whatever you do please don't make the ban permanent!

Edited by Titus Adduxas

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Has anyone heard anything about the survey they were going to conduct "in a few weeks"?

 

Several months ago, I sent a message to Groundspeak asking about that. The courteous reply I received said, essentially "um ... we got way more feedback than we expected, and we're still trying to process it all ... we really want to read all of it before we proceed with the survey ... stay tuned ...".

 

I haven't heard anything since then.

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Before we know it, the one year moratorium is over and there's still no poll... I wrote it before, I suspect the decision has been made already...

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I wrote it before, I suspect the decision has been made already...

It hasn't.

 

 

Several months ago, I sent a message to Groundspeak asking about that. The courteous reply I received said, essentially "um ... we got way more feedback than we expected, and we're still trying to process it all ... we really want to read all of it before we proceed with the survey ... stay tuned ...".

That's a pretty accurate re-telling of my email to you. But I would never say "um."

 

Has anyone heard anything about the survey they were going to conduct "in a few weeks"?

I don't remember writing that a survey would happen "in a few weeks," but perhaps someone not involved in the process would have. Or perhaps I have amnesia. In any case, you'll see a survey very soon.

 

(Cue the back-and-forth about what defines "very soon.")

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I wrote it before, I suspect the decision has been made already...

It hasn't.

 

 

Several months ago, I sent a message to Groundspeak asking about that. The courteous reply I received said, essentially "um ... we got way more feedback than we expected, and we're still trying to process it all ... we really want to read all of it before we proceed with the survey ... stay tuned ...".

That's a pretty accurate re-telling of my email to you. But I would never say "um."

 

Has anyone heard anything about the survey they were going to conduct "in a few weeks"?

I don't remember writing that a survey would happen "in a few weeks," but perhaps someone not involved in the process would have. Or perhaps I have amnesia. In any case, you'll see a survey very soon.

 

(Cue the back-and-forth about what defines "very soon.")

 

I refer to the final post #478 in the User insights thread on this subject from over 6 months ago.

 

"Thank you very much for contributing to this User Insights forum. We'll use your feedback to create a survey that will be available in the coming weeks."

Edited by cheech gang

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There are over 1100 challenges in the UK at the moment and I've actually looked at all of them. Of that list there's about 370 that I currently qualify for, and 240 that I think I might qualify for one day. Nearly 600 of them though are in my "Challenge Caches I have No Interest In Whatsoever" Bookmark List.

 

 

 

Wow! I'm in the UK too and would be interested in seeing your lists.

 

I have occasionally looked at bookmark lists of challenges; but I've certainly not looked at all the challenges in the UK! I tend to look at all the "?" icon caches if I'm going to be in the area, looking both for challenge caches I might qualify for, as well as puzzle caches I might solve. I have my own (very small) list of challenge caches I'm interested and working on.

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"Thank you very much for contributing to this User Insights forum. We'll use your feedback to create a survey that will be available in the coming weeks."

 

I guess those weeks are still coming :laughing:

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There are over 1100 challenges in the UK at the moment and I've actually looked at all of them.

There are 722 challenge caches in Ontario :)

The vast majority of them clumped in the golden horseshoe region (1-200km area around the west end of Lake Ontario). Challengeville. Although 110 of them are now archived. So technically 612 active challenge caches.

If you like challenge caches, come to Ontario and do a couple of the challenge trails.

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Challenges are an integral and, for many people, an important part of geocaching

 

How did the game/hobby ever survive prior to this "integral and important part of geocaching" being added? It grew quite well.

It has not stopped growing nor has it missed the lack of new hoops for cachers to jump through in order to get a smilie for a cache they found....most of which have greatly exaggerated D/T ratings for the cache. My opinion is that the ban should be permanent.

 

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

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My opinion is that the ban should be permanent.

 

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

Just ignore them. I don't like the "trown away micro traditionals" that litter the maps these days, I ignore them and don't log them even if I step on them. I concentrate on the caches I want to do and that includes some/many challenges.

 

I would never be so selfish to promote bans on cachetypes I don't like. :ph34r:

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Just because you don't like them...........

 

But K13 did concisely point out why your assertion that "challenges are an integral part of geocaching" is nonsense.

 

Just because you like them...........

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I don't mind the exceedingly hard caches to find (Everest, the space station, deep technical SCUBA caches), I think these can readily be found by people who are already engaging in an activity and thus can enhance the activity already undertaken. The ones I think are really silly is where the challenge necessarily requires that one devote an enormous amount of time to geocaching as an end in itself the stuff that's "888 Challenge ("8000 Finds, In Eight Different States, In Eight Different Years!")" -- No caches ought to be off limits simply because someone hasn't made caching their primary activity in life... but if someone's got $60MM to spend to go to the space station, and they can get the cache there? Go for it.

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I don't mind the exceedingly hard caches to find (Everest, the space station, deep technical SCUBA caches), I think these can readily be found by people who are already engaging in an activity and thus can enhance the activity already undertaken. The ones I think are really silly is where the challenge necessarily requires that one devote an enormous amount of time to geocaching as an end in itself the stuff that's "888 Challenge ("8000 Finds, In Eight Different States, In Eight Different Years!")" -- No caches ought to be off limits simply because someone hasn't made caching their primary activity in life... but if someone's got $60MM to spend to go to the space station, and they can get the cache there? Go for it.

No challenge cache requires that one devote any amount of time at all to geocaching. All challenge caches are optional; you can walk way from any of them. If you feel a cache is too hard for the amount of time you want to devote to geocaching, then simply add them to your ignore list. Problem solved.

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...or find them, and note them online. Your loss? You don't get a smiley. But you still went geocaching and found a potentially really cool geocache.

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...or find them, and note them online. Your loss? You don't get a smiley. But you still went geocaching and found a potentially really cool geocache.
Assuming that the challenge cache is a really cool geocache, of course, and that the only thing you find undesirable about it is the challenge itself. And if the smiley is important to you, then you could even log a Find for one of your own caches.

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...or find them, and note them online. Your loss? You don't get a smiley. But you still went geocaching and found a potentially really cool geocache.

 

That's fine with me. I don't want the smiley.

 

But, especially as a paying premium member, I want to be able to use the tools on the site as they were meant to be used. I want to be able to filter out caches I have found. I do not want them on an ignore list. My ignore list is for caches I do not want to find.

 

 

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I want to be able to filter out caches I have found. I do not want them on an ignore list.

Right, so that's a different discussion than "ban them all because I don't like them" (not that you said that), or "keep them because they are integral to the game".

So the issue still is finding a way, if possible, to have them and make the concept enjoyable and/or just passable for the community at large.

Edited by thebruce0

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Several months ago, I sent a message to Groundspeak asking about that. The courteous reply I received said, essentially "um ... we got way more feedback than we expected, and we're still trying to process it all ... we really want to read all of it before we proceed with the survey ... stay tuned ...".

That's a pretty accurate re-telling of my email to you. But I would never say "um."

 

I'm glad I got most of it right, then. :)

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No challenge cache requires that one devote any amount of time at all to geocaching. All challenge caches are optional; you can walk way from any of them.

 

But what challenge cache can do is choke an area from having a traditional geocache in the area. Some areas are saturated with them.

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No challenge cache requires that one devote any amount of time at all to geocaching. All challenge caches are optional; you can walk way from any of them.

 

But what challenge cache can do is choke an area from having a traditional geocache in the area. Some areas are saturated with them.

 

If an area is that saturated, it probably does not need another traditional either.

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No challenge cache requires that one devote any amount of time at all to geocaching. All challenge caches are optional; you can walk way from any of them.

 

But what challenge cache can do is choke an area from having a traditional geocache in the area. Some areas are saturated with them.

 

And traditionals can choke an area from having better multis and puzzles. Some areas are saturated with them. Oh well.

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