+Laughing at the Sky Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Why are some "church micros" not actually microcaches? Why not rename the series to simply "Church Caches" if they are not all micros? Or should I create a series called "Woodland Regulars" and have half of them as nanos that still fall in the series simply because they are hidden in the woods? Quote Link to comment
+GeoLog81 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Why are some "church micros" not actually microcaches? What do you mean? If you see small container that is listed as micro, you can log NM, although reviewers don't care... But 'small' container should be big enough to host travel bug. So if you consider 'PETling' as small then well, no, they're not small, they're micro. Quote Link to comment
+sparklefingers Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 They're talking about a series in England called the Church Micro series. I believe it did start out as just micros hence the name but you can actually have any size container you like when you place your own. Most of mine are small to micro as I live in a town and the smaller the better around the churches. Quote Link to comment
+Seaglass Pirates Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 The series is a British series run by a user called Sadexploration. A very helpful chap who created this series to bring people to churches. You contact him and state you wish to create a church micro. He will then require your username, email adresss, and the exact location of the church you want to make a church micro from. From there he asigns it a unique number and you include that unique number in the title. The "micro" reference is in the title only and does not restrict you with regard to container size. In the same way as if you placed a cache named "Trolls Lair" it would not require a NA or NM because you cannot present a Troll for finders of his lair, the same is true for the church micro series. for more information try here - http://www.15ddv.me.uk/geo/cm/place_your_own.html Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Why are some "church micros" not actually microcaches? Why not rename the series to simply "Church Caches" if they are not all micros? Or should I create a series called "Woodland Regulars" and have half of them as nanos that still fall in the series simply because they are hidden in the woods? You convinced me. The church connection does not entitle them to "special dispensation." The title of the series is misleading - which is ironic given the religious theme. This post does not convince me: In the same way as if you placed a cache named "Trolls Lair" it would not require a NA or NM because you cannot present a Troll for finders of his lair, the same is true for the church micro series. Trolls have nothing to do with caching. They are mythical and associated with bridges. No one expects to actually see a troll - a prospective finder thinks they'll probably see a bridge. The series is misnamed but is apparently a well-established quirky feature of British caching, in the same way that a cache named "Troll's Lair" would be quirky if located in the middle of a desert. The latter is quirky in a wryly humorous way, while the former is just plain quirky. Quote Link to comment
+Seaglass Pirates Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This post does not convince me: In the same way as if you placed a cache named "Trolls Lair" it would not require a NA or NM because you cannot present a Troll for finders of his lair, the same is true for the church micro series. Sorry about that but to clarify it wasnt an attempt to convince you, but an attempt to put cache title context ... in context. Container size is denoted by the container size section of a cache page. Trolls have nothing to do with caching. They are mythical and associated with bridges. No one expects to actually see a troll - a prospective finder thinks they'll probably see a bridge. I didnt know that. The series is misnamed (in my opinion), but is apparently a very well-established quirky feature of British caching, in the same way that a cache named "Troll's Lair" would be quirky if located in the middle of a desert. The latter is quirky in a wryly humorous way, while the former is just plain quirky. Blame it on the English we are a quirky lot. Little Gems is another series ... but no gems unfortunately. A fine pair ... oddly isnt about pairs of anything. Little bridges ... again whats little. Tungsten Trail ... its made of chippings that arent tungsten. The award winning 130 ... has no awards - great cache though. Butterfly Trail ... fair enough we did see a couple. X Marks the Spot ... it didnt. Church Micro ... there has always been a church Quote Link to comment
+redsox_mark Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Yes.. in hindsight a name like "Church Series" or "Church Cache" would have been better. Some years ago, a cacher started the series, and the original hides were micros so he called the series "Church Micro". It expanded rapidly over time... and cachers started hiding containers of all sizes (which is allowed in the current series rules). But the name "Church Micro" remained. There are now over 7000 of them. So the name is unlikely to change. Someone who first sees them may find the name odd, but soon it just becomes a name. Reference Church Micro Link Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 This post does not convince me: In the same way as if you placed a cache named "Trolls Lair" it would not require a NA or NM because you cannot present a Troll for finders of his lair, the same is true for the church micro series. Sorry about that but to clarify it wasnt an attempt to convince you, but an attempt to put cache title context ... in context. Container size is denoted by the container size section of a cache page. The series is misnamed, but is apparently a very well-established quirky feature of British caching, in the same way that a cache named "Troll's Lair" would be quirky if located in the middle of a desert. The latter is quirky in a wryly humorous way, while the former is just plain quirky. Blame it on the English we are a quirky lot. You violated a basic rule of forums: you modified my quote by adding three words to it. I removed them. Basic etiquette says you can quote part of a post if you don't misstate the person's view. You *can't add* words - even if in your opinion they should be there. Please don't modify my writing that way. Your comment that you were not attempting to convince me sounds pedantic. In a sense any statement in a discussion with different views is an attempt to convince a listener. Whatever your intent, I stated a fact, namely that your statement did not convince me (i.e., I disagree with it). You then state that cache size is shown on the cache page. Of course. My point is that I consider it quirky to include a cache size in the title of a series that *conflicts* with the *actual* cache size of some caches in the series. Why include the word at all?? It's unnecessary and misleading. Your examples of "misnamed" caches does not prove a series should be called "church micros" & contain other size caches. A cache's size is an important aspect of the hide. The CO is not going to change the series name because of this thread, but the OP and I believe he should. You disagree. Fine - let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. We both have more important things to do. Your beloved church series can go forward and be enjoyed by all. The OP questioned the name. I agree with the OP and I disagree with you. What we say does not detract from the merits of the caches. This is not an attack on caches, it's a critique of the name of the series. Quote Link to comment
+Laughing at the Sky Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) Having a cache called "church micro" that is NOT a micro is similar to having a cache called a "church micro" that IS a micro but NOT near a church. Because if the logic states that only one part of "church micro" needs to be true, rather than all of it, then by that logic all micros could be called "church micro" regardless of their proximity to churches. Not only that, the first few church micros I found a couple of years ago lead me to believe that they were meant to be hidden within the church grounds. Since then, I have found some "church micros" that are outside of the grounds. In fact, there is a "church micro" a few miles from my house which is a regular sized cache in some ivy across the road from the church. So it's neither church nor micro. It's just a regular cache by the side of the road. If we start bending the rules, where will it end? If it doesn't need to actually be in the church grounds, how close does it need to be? Is a mile away close enough? 3 inches? Within eyesight of the steeple? Within earshot of the church bells? What is it? What if there is a church in my town, can all caches in the town be church caches? Because it's a small town, so once you're in the town it's only a short walk to the church. You can see the church tower from almost anywhere in the town. Can all objects in the church grounds be church micros, even if they are not really caches? Can I list my next geocache as a "Cathedral Large" but have it actually as a nano in a nearby grocery store? How about we call all caches church micros? None of it really makes much difference to my life. I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies. Edited April 21, 2015 by Laughing at the Sky Quote Link to comment
+GeoLog81 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 If we start bending the rules, where will it end? There are no rules about the names, except those they can't be offensive. Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Having a cache called "church micro" that is NOT a micro is similar to having a cache called a "church micro" that IS a micro but NOT near a church. Because if the logic states that only one part of "church micro" needs to be true, rather than all of it, then by that logic all micros could be called "church micro" regardless of their proximity to churches. Not only that, the first few church micros I found a couple of years ago lead me to believe that they were meant to be hidden within the church grounds. Since then, I have found some "church micros" that are outside of the grounds. In fact, there is a "church micro" a few miles from my house which is a regular sized cache in some ivy across the road from the church. So it's neither church nor micro. It's just a regular cache by the side of the road. If we start bending the rules, where will it end? If it doesn't need to actually be in the church grounds, how close does it need to be? Is a mile away close enough? 3 inches? Within eyesight of the steeple? Within earshot of the church bells? What is it? What if there is a church in my town, can all caches in the town be church caches? Because it's a small town, so once you're in the town it's only a short walk to the church. You can see the church tower from almost anywhere in the town. Can all objects in the church grounds be church micros, even if they are not really caches? Can I list my next geocache as a "Cathedral Large" but have it actually as a nano in a nearby grocery store? How about we call all caches church micros? None of it really makes much difference to my life. I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies. Very well said. Starting down that slippery slope can lead from artsy creativity to confused - and confusing - eccentricity! But hey! - for those for whom precise language is just too much work, carry on! Quote Link to comment
+wmpastor Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 If we start bending the rules, where will it end? There are no rules about the names, except those they can't be offensive. Or promoting causes. And i'm wondering if a thinly-disgiused religious theme is not at work here! Quote Link to comment
+Seaglass Pirates Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Not only that, the first few church micros I found a couple of years ago lead me to believe that they were meant to be hidden within the church grounds. Since then, I have found some "church micros" that are outside of the grounds. In fact, there is a "church micro" a few miles from my house which is a regular sized cache in some ivy across the road from the church. So it's neither church nor micro. It's just a regular cache by the side of the road. Like all series that you participate in you follow the guidelines/request laid down by the organiser. In this instance the size guideline is that it does not have to be a micro it can be any size the bigger the better. This will allow TB's to be placed and if people wish, swaps to be left. Initially some micros were placed in churchyards and we have found a couple. Rules about land owner permission being required and submitted as part of the publishing process have obviously impacted on this. Some Vicars who have been approached have said no though they have had no objection to visitors enjoying the church. Others have said yes and the cache has been placed within the grounds. We tend to leave most country churches open during the day for visitors to enjoy the place or for prayer. If we start bending the rules As been stated there is no rule other than offensive language with regard to cache names. If you wish to call a cache the great cabbage hunt and all the containers are radishes I am sure you will get many visitors regardless. Can all objects in the church grounds be church micros, even if they are not really caches? Pass. Can I list my next geocache as a "Cathedral Large" but have it actually as a nano in a nearby grocery store? No that would be reported as a commercial cache no doubt. I would go with Cathedral City and wedge it in the cold fresh section of the local Tesco ... no guts How about we call all caches church micros? Call them what you will, I've seen some shockers that were quickly archived before anyone noticed them. But if you want a church micro number and for it to count in the statistics thingy, it will need to be linked to a specific qualifying church. None of it really makes much difference to my life. I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies. Like how people get arrested for walking down the street in underpants and yet they can wear a budgey smuggler on the beach 15 steps from the street. Quote Link to comment
+Seaglass Pirates Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Maybe this thread should be moved to the UK forum as it is a UK specific series. Other UK cachers can explain the history and intention more accurately for the OP and avoid any confusion Quote Link to comment
+BruceS Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Moving to UK section of forums as that is where the series is located. Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Moving to UK section of forums as that is where the series is located. And where people might understand that the series started out as being all micros, hence the name, but a change of name was deemed unnecessary later although it was recognised that bigger containers could be popular. Quote Link to comment
+Laughing at the Sky Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Now I actually want to create a multi-cache called "The Great Cabbage Hunt" in which all the caches contain a different vegetable that is not a cabbage. Quote Link to comment
+geordiell Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Maybe church micro was started because it was a mini/micro series that's escalated?! +1 for the cabbage hunt Quote Link to comment
+Bear and Ragged Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Now I actually want to create a multi-cache called "The Great Cabbage Hunt" in which all the caches contain a different vegetable that is not a cabbage. Wouldn't be published. You're not supposed to put 'food' in caches. Quote Link to comment
+TheOldfields Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Sheesh. Do you think an 'Anally retentive' series would be good? Quote Link to comment
+ColwynMagpie Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Now I actually want to create a multi-cache called "The Great Cabbage Hunt" in which all the caches contain a different vegetable that is not a cabbage. For added fun you could deliberately skip a number in the series. Quote Link to comment
+The Growler Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? Does it really matter? Get over it and move on Quote Link to comment
+Laughing at the Sky Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? Does it really matter? Get over it and move on Ahh, you missed the part of one my posts where I said: "None of it really makes much difference to my life. I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies." For your information, I'm not wearing any knickers. I don't on Fridays. Quote Link to comment
+geordiell Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? Does it really matter? Get over it and move on Ahh, you missed the part of one my posts where I said: "None of it really makes much difference to my life. I just enjoy pointing out inconsistencies." For your information, I'm not wearing any knickers. I don't on Fridays. No knickers Friday wahoooo it's not just me Quote Link to comment
+GilkerscleughCachers Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 If we start bending the rules, where will it end? There are no rules about the names, except those they can't be offensive. Or promoting causes. And i'm wondering if a thinly-disguised religious theme is not at work here! There is no "thinly-disguised religious theme" present. Church Micros are about the architecture of the Church building and the history of the building. It helps people to stop and notice the lovely architecture, that without a cache placed nearby, most people wouldn't notice. To settle the whole argument regarding sizes. SadExploration (The creator of the series) states: The cache can be as large as you like, the bigger the better. And yes, I corrected your spelling mistake in thinly-disguised. Quote Link to comment
+Eclectic Penguin Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Church Micros (and their equivalent) have been started in other countries too. Here in Ireland, the name Church Micro has been retained when the series was started by a local cacher, but is now called Church Micro IE and has its own series numbers. Quote Link to comment
BOBBLES WORLD TOUR Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? Does it really matter? Get over it and move on Agrred 100%.. Geocaching to most of us is...coords. Find/DNF. move on. Jeepers C! Edited May 8, 2015 by Joluc Quote Link to comment
+Laughing at the Sky Posted May 9, 2015 Author Share Posted May 9, 2015 Why are you getting your knickers in a twist over this? Does it really matter? Get over it and move on Agrred 100%.. Geocaching to most of us is...coords. Find/DNF. move on. Jeepers C! Also agreed 100%. My question has been answered anyway. Quote Link to comment
+CazP Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 The Church Micro series has taken me to some great places in the UK, and to date 6 different icon types. Most of the CMs I have found have been micro's or nanos. most commonly a 35mm film canister. Some are placed inside church grounds, but most that I have come across are outside. Often the multi's require you to gather information at the church or in the church yard. There is also a website created by BaSHful that tracks the stats, associated challenges, TBs etc. all to do with the series. CM Stats Quote Link to comment
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