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Found but not signed?


geordiell
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If someone claims a find but does not actually sign the log without a r

eason example no pen but photo of log as proof does the CO allowed to delete that log and if so does "said" person lose the smile face?

I've never deleted a log due to the finder having “no pen”. But it is your cache, and especially if signing the log is essential (just as an example, if the container's at the top of a tree and the whole challenge is to access and sign the log), and if the log was not signed, pen or not, you may delete the find. Yes, the smilie face also goes away.

 

Can you place a golf pencil in the container? I've done that with a bunch of my caches, specifically due to the inability of Geocachers to have a pen.

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This one kinda bugs me sometimes. Every once in a while, I will happen upon say, a micro/nano cache. The log is full, and there is no way to replace it. I've found the cache. I have a pen. I TRIED to sign the log....but it wasn't my fault that I couldn't do so.

 

Does the smiley face go away THEN? (I know it's up to the person in charge of the cache, but I think you see what I mean with this.)

 

If the log is sign-able....I sign it. Otherwise, I mention that the log was full, but mark it as found.

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This one kinda bugs me sometimes. Every once in a while, I will happen upon say, a micro/nano cache. The log is full, and there is no way to replace it. I've found the cache. I have a pen. I TRIED to sign the log....but it wasn't my fault that I couldn't do so.

 

Does the smiley face go away THEN? (I know it's up to the person in charge of the cache, but I think you see what I mean with this.)

 

If the log is sign-able....I sign it. Otherwise, I mention that the log was full, but mark it as found.

 

Can you not find an minuscule piece of white space on the log to leave your mark?

 

No matter how full or deterorated a log may be I have always been able to "sign" it.

Edited by Roman!
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Every once in a while, I will happen upon say, a micro/nano cache. The log is full, and there is no way to replace it. I've found the cache. I have a pen. I TRIED to sign the log....but it wasn't my fault that I couldn't do so.
So far, I've been able to add an extra log sheet, or to squeeze my name in somewhere, even on blinker log strips where all the spaces had been used. Somewhere, there's been a scrap of space that hasn't been completely filled by previous signatures. (And in such a situation, you could sign just your initials "AS" instead of writing out "AspergerSadie".)

 

And if I can't add an extra log sheet, then in addition to my Find log, I post a Needs Maintenance log. And if there have already been Needs Maintenance logs with no response from the cache owner, then I post a Needs Archived log instead.

 

Does the smiley face go away THEN? (I know it's up to the person in charge of the cache, but I think you see what I mean with this.)
Your smiley goes away if the cache owner deletes your Find log. In theory, the owner could delete your Find log if you didn't sign the paper. In practice, I've never seen it happen. Many owners of such caches have left the game, and won't replace the log sheet, and won't delete anyone's online logs. Those who are still active are unlikely to punish finders for something that was caused by their own failure to maintain their own cache.
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Can you not find an minuscule piece of white space on the log to leave your mark?

 

No matter how full or deterorated a log may be I have always been able to "sign" it.

 

Does a dot count? Because sometimes that is literally ALL I can get in. Honestly, these logs are FULL. Can't fit a date OR a name, let alone both.

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Can you not find an minuscule piece of white space on the log to leave your mark?

 

No matter how full or deterorated a log may be I have always been able to "sign" it.

 

Does a dot count? Because sometimes that is literally ALL I can get in. Honestly, these logs are FULL. Can't fit a date OR a name, let alone both.

 

That's when you turn to your old-fashioned letter-writing skills and write across perpendicular to the rest of the writing.

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This one kinda bugs me sometimes. Every once in a while, I will happen upon say, a micro/nano cache. The log is full, and there is no way to replace it. I've found the cache. I have a pen. I TRIED to sign the log....but it wasn't my fault that I couldn't do so.

 

Does the smiley face go away THEN? (I know it's up to the person in charge of the cache, but I think you see what I mean with this.)

 

If the log is sign-able....I sign it. Otherwise, I mention that the log was full, but mark it as found.

In this case I would explain the situation and claim the smiley, BTDT.

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Does a dot count? Because sometimes that is literally ALL I can get in. Honestly, these logs are FULL. Can't fit a date OR a name, let alone both.

I just always sign the log. If all the real estate is really completely filled in, I write over some other name. I've had to do that 3 or 4 times.

 

The only time I don't sign the log is when it's wet pulp, and in that case I dare the CO to prove I didn't sign it (although I don't expect them to care because if they cared, the log wouldn't be wet pulp).

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I have run across a couple logs that literally only had room for a dot. I generally have blank log sheets and add them.

 

Usually the problem I get into is a soaked log that you cannot sign. Generally these are poorly designed or damaged to the point that a new log and baggie will simply be soaked the next time it rains. Often there are months of notes stating this is a problem. In that case I simply note it is still soaked and go on and add a needs maintenance that probably gets ignored too. If it's a recent issue and appears to be in good shape I'll replace the log and note it but I do hate getting a thank you note from the CO explaining they can't maintain it because they live two states away.

 

Once I had a cache that required using a Sharpie due to the material the log was made out of. For some reason my Sharpie wouldn't really leave much of a mark although it worked fine on similar materials later. Note it and go on.

 

So far I haven't run across any problem with a log deletion when I haven't signed but in those cases it usually appears the CO isn't all that concerned about maintenance so he/she certainly isn't checking logs. Frankly I suspect that the percentage of COs who actually check their physical logs is very low. I also suspect that those who do actually check it stop doing so after a while because it is a lot of effort for minimal return. I had a job where I had to be very anal about making sure everything was backed up by documentation and now that I'm retired I just don't think I could find it in me to be that concerned about something like this -- if I ever place a cache.

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Almost always have a pilot g2 gel pen in my pocket. It allows me to sign over another log on a full nano and can often get ink onto all but the soggiest wad of pulp. On the rare occasions I have left the pen in the car, I have managed to take a pointy stick and green leaf and etch my initials or at least a W on the log.

Once or twice I have found a container that was stuck or rusted shut, those got signed on the outside and I took a pic of the cache in situ in case the CO challenged my find.

 

The only time I have had a find deleted was an old Locationless Cache with a clenched CO who didn't think I had enough of my face in the picture.

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Yes the CO could delete the log if you didn't sign it. I don't think many would if you explain why and especially if you have a pic of it. I find sometimes I sign the wrong part of the log for one reason or another. I could see a CO doing a audit of the log and not realizing my out of place signature. I doubt you would ever have a problem but I do know at least one cacher that it would be a problem if you didn't sign a log of a cache they own but that is out of the norm from what I have seen.

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I've only ever once had an issue where I physically could not sign the log. It was completely soaked and a pulpy mess. I took a picture of it in my hand and noted the situation when I logged it, including offering to send the pic if the CO needed it.

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So far I haven't run across any problem with a log deletion when I haven't signed but in those cases it usually appears the CO isn't all that concerned about maintenance so he/she certainly isn't checking logs. Frankly I suspect that the percentage of COs who actually check their physical logs is very low. I also suspect that those who do actually check it stop doing so after a while because it is a lot of effort for minimal return.

 

I check the physical log occasionally when doing maintainance or refreshing the swag. Sometimes there is an amusing/informative story written there. But, cross-referencing the names against cachers logging a find? Never. Never will. Life is too short for that.

 

To the OP, if someone doesn't sign the log, for whatever reason, but they took a picture of the cache in their hand, would you still delete the log? If so, why? I know that some CO's are absolute sticklers for the "rule" of signing the logbook, but I find it pretty absurd. If I can offer up proof that I found your cache, what difference does it make if my name isn't written in the logbook? Assuming, of course, that this isn't a monkey puzzle cache where you have to figure out how to open the container or find the hidden logbook.

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To the OP, if someone doesn't sign the log, for whatever reason, but they took a picture of the cache in their hand, would you still delete the log? If so, why? I know that some CO's are absolute sticklers for the "rule" of signing the logbook, but I find it pretty absurd. If I can offer up proof that I found your cache, what difference does it make if my name isn't written in the logbook? Assuming, of course, that this isn't a monkey puzzle cache where you have to figure out how to open the container or find the hidden logbook.

 

+1 for me.

 

Very occasionally I've found myself without a pen. I thought I had one, or I dropped it somewhere. I could sign it in mud or blood, but that does tend to make a mess of the log. Taking a photo of the log itself seems a sensible thing to do. When I've done this (which was 3 or 4 times in 5000+ finds) I mailed the owner with a photo and a detailed description of the hide. All of them said OK to log it as found. If one said no, I'd live with it (but I'd find it a bit petty).

 

As a cache owner, I would only delete a log if I had good reason to believe they really didn't find it.

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I've only ever once had an issue where I physically could not sign the log. It was completely soaked and a pulpy mess. I took a picture of it in my hand and noted the situation when I logged it, including offering to send the pic if the CO needed it.

 

That has only happened to you once? That is a weekly occurrence for me. I carry a ton of little ziploc baggies and extra logs for that occasion. I also use a custom stamp now which works better on moist logs.

 

 

To the OP, if someone doesn't sign the log, for whatever reason, but they took a picture of the cache in their hand, would you still delete the log? If so, why? I know that some CO's are absolute sticklers for the "rule" of signing the logbook, but I find it pretty absurd. If I can offer up proof that I found your cache, what difference does it make if my name isn't written in the logbook? Assuming, of course, that this isn't a monkey puzzle cache where you have to figure out how to open the container or find the hidden logbook.

 

+1 for me.

 

Very occasionally I've found myself without a pen. I thought I had one, or I dropped it somewhere. I could sign it in mud or blood, but that does tend to make a mess of the log. Taking a photo of the log itself seems a sensible thing to do. When I've done this (which was 3 or 4 times in 5000+ finds) I mailed the owner with a photo and a detailed description of the hide. All of them said OK to log it as found. If one said no, I'd live with it (but I'd find it a bit petty).

 

As a cache owner, I would only delete a log if I had good reason to believe they really didn't find it.

 

Sometimes I can't get the logs out of nanos even with tweezers. So far no one has deleted my log when that has happened, but I guess they could. Its hard to read those logs anyway, so I don't know how they can tell who has signed them or not.

Edited by Zepp914
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On a recent nano, the previous finder peeled the paper at the end into two layers, thus making room for more logs. He proudly described this idea at an event.

 

However, on the same cache a day later, I simply unrolled the WHOLE log and found several free spaces to write on, most very far inside. :)

 

Lesson learnt: there are creative ideas, but first try to find a free space - most probably there is one (try the backside of the log paper, too).

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If someone claims a find but does not actually sign the log without a r

eason example no pen but photo of log as proof does the CO allowed to delete that log and if so does "said" person lose the smile face?

 

That sort of thing seems a bit petty to me, not to mention labor intensive. Are cache owners really going to go through their logs and crosscheck the electronic log with the paper one? Seems unlikely, especially considering the state of some of the paper logs I've seen.

 

Geocaching is a game of honor. If you're going to cheat, why play at all? That said, any time someone logs a cache, unless it's obvious they're lying or failed to fulfill some vital task, the cacher should be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

That's what I think anyway, and how I play the game.

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If someone claims a find but does not actually sign the log without a r

eason example no pen but photo of log as proof does the CO allowed to delete that log and if so does "said" person lose the smile face?

 

That sort of thing seems a bit petty to me, not to mention labor intensive. Are cache owners really going to go through their logs and crosscheck the electronic log with the paper one? Seems unlikely, especially considering the state of some of the paper logs I've seen.

 

Geocaching is a game of honor. If you're going to cheat, why play at all? That said, any time someone logs a cache, unless it's obvious they're lying or failed to fulfill some vital task, the cacher should be given the benefit of the doubt.

 

That's what I think anyway, and how I play the game.

We used to think that way, and that's how we are with our simpler hides.

I could see many not minding much if the hides are simple cache n dashes that see many people weekly.

- But some odd reason my other 2/3rds "5" hide seems to get the most fake logs and we do check the paper log on it.

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I've been out riding my bike before and decided to find a cache while not having a pen. I'm one of those people that seldom carry a pen with me, I'm pretty much digital these days. :rolleyes: I've yet to ever delete a log as I don't take the game that serious and don't sweat the little things in life. If someone chooses to claim they visited my cache and did not, that's their problem. The only time I could see deleting a find is if they wrote something inappropriate.

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Couple years ago I found a cache someone claimed they had FTF on, in a fairly remote area. They logged on line about 4 days before I went through -- and found the cache log entirely blank.

 

So my log entry states, "Found easily and signed the blank log. Thanks for placing this cache." The least I could do.

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If they didn't sign it or tried to or taken a photo the log...delete

 

If they say, Didn't have a pen, but you read the other caches they did nearby and they didn't mention not having one. Hmmm... Delete.

 

And I really love the ones that are logged as a find but say, Didn't have a pen and I will come back another time and sign it. Really? Why not write a note and wait til you come back and sign it...Delete

 

If they say I see the cache in the tree but can't climb it.... delete

 

If they say they can't open it...delete (unless they have a photo of the cache)

 

Sorry I sound like a meanie but as mentioned it's part of the guidelines. And if those who don't do anything then those finders will think it's okay to do it all the time.

 

I had one newbie cacher who I deleted their log because they didn't sign it and they asked why. I told them and they responded "I didn't know I had to"

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If they didn't sign it or tried to or taken a photo the log...delete

 

If they say, Didn't have a pen, but you read the other caches they did nearby and they didn't mention not having one. Hmmm... Delete.

 

And I really love the ones that are logged as a find but say, Didn't have a pen and I will come back another time and sign it. Really? Why not write a note and wait til you come back and sign it...Delete

 

If they say I see the cache in the tree but can't climb it.... delete

 

If they say they can't open it...delete (unless they have a photo of the cache)

 

Sorry I sound like a meanie but as mentioned it's part of the guidelines. And if those who don't do anything then those finders will think it's okay to do it all the time.

 

I had one newbie cacher who I deleted their log because they didn't sign it and they asked why. I told them and they responded "I didn't know I had to"

 

What are pens for?

 

I present this merely as information. I do not pretend to know how the geocaching community can solve the growing number of problems like this (insert comment about app users w/o validated email here)

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This one kinda bugs me sometimes. Every once in a while, I will happen upon say, a micro/nano cache. The log is full, and there is no way to replace it. I've found the cache. I have a pen. I TRIED to sign the log....but it wasn't my fault that I couldn't do so.

 

Does the smiley face go away THEN? (I know it's up to the person in charge of the cache, but I think you see what I mean with this.)

 

If the log is sign-able....I sign it. Otherwise, I mention that the log was full, but mark it as found.

In this case I would explain the situation and claim the smiley, BTDT.

 

My policy as well. I sign if I can, NM if I can't. I'll add a new log if there is room, the container is still waterproof, and I'm carrying some spares. I usually snap a photo for proof if the log is not signable.

 

Regardless, I found it so I'm logging a Find and moving on.

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If they say, Didn't have a pen, but you read the other caches they did nearby and they didn't mention not having one. Hmmm... Delete.

 

You've never lost your only pen on your way to a cache?

 

Oh, and while it has been years, I have indeed logged that I would go back and sign... and did just that.

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...And I really love the ones that are logged as a find but say, Didn't have a pen and I will come back another time and sign it. Really? Why not write a note and wait til you come back and sign it...Delete

We see that often here. Vacation area, they're not coming back...

Our favorite was when one said, "No pen, we'll be back to sign it another day. This spot's too beautiful to not visit again".

Our neighbor found it the same day and wrote, "Used the short pencil that the log was wrapped around and sticking out of (visible eraser) to sign the log". :laughing:

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If I find the cache I sign the log. If I can't sign the log (because it's full, damp, whatever) I count that as a find anyway. I think you'd have to be a pretty mean CO to delete someone's online log just because they couldn't sign the physical.

 

EDIT: And I make a note in the online log as to why I couldn't sign.

Edited by La Pie Bavarde
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Personally, I enjoy geocaching as a reason to have a fun walk somewhere I haven't been before, with the added bonus of trying to find these hidden things. I'm actually not particularly interested in my total score. So even if a cache owner was to unfairly delete one of my logs, I don't really care too much. Life's too short, and I'd rather enjoy my next nice day out somewhere rather than argue over 1 digit.

 

Having said that, yesterday my pen fell out of my pocket while I was in my car, so I took photos of the logs instead.

 

As for the frustration of full logs, this is entirely the cache owner's responsibility. Really, a cache owner should know how many entries the log can contain, and should have an idea of whether it's likely to be getting full based on the amount of logs on the cache page. If it's a nano with a tiny log, they should be checking it frequently anyway. But also, it's good practice for geocachers who find it to notify when the log is nearly full.

 

Although, for geocachers who do care about their score, always carry a pen and camera with you.

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Do you have more than one GPS? What about shoes? What if your shoes fall off?

Gee, those things have never happened to me. But I have lost pens, so I carry at least 3.

 

I've lost my shoe(s) on two different occasions with the pictures to prove it. I still don't carry a spare pair with me. Back in the vehicle now, that's a different story.

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Do you have more than one GPS? What about shoes? What if your shoes fall off?

Gee, those things have never happened to me. But I have lost pens, so I carry at least 3.

 

I've lost my shoe(s) on two different occasions with the pictures to prove it. I still don't carry a spare pair with me. Back in the vehicle now, that's a different story.

 

I've loaded the kids in the car and forgotten their shoes and had to turn back.

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I've lost my shoe(s) on two different occasions with the pictures to prove it. I still don't carry a spare pair with me. Back in the vehicle now, that's a different story.

If I lost my shoes that often, I'd probably start carrying a spare pair. How far did you have to hike barefoot?

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I've lost my shoe(s) on two different occasions with the pictures to prove it. I still don't carry a spare pair with me. Back in the vehicle now, that's a different story.

If I lost my shoes that often, I'd probably start carrying a spare pair. How far did you have to hike barefoot?

 

My socks stayed on my feet so it wasn't that painful.

 

Think of it like that other thread about the UK people rescue from the mud flats.. though I never called for help. Somewhere out there are a nice pair of Keans. And the other instance I lost a cheap sneaker.

 

No, I still won't carry extra shoes and I'll still probably forge ahead to a cache across the swamps and bogs.

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I think it's up to the CO to provide something to sign the log book. I'm not a fan of caches so small a pencil won't fit and the log book gets filled up after 10 visits. If you're going to make a cache so small, accept a photo.

 

Do you, really? I sure don't. I never expect it. Pens freeze in the winter and dry out in the summer. Pencils break. They poke holes in baggies. Pencil sharpeners rust in the wild. Both pencils and pens can be stuck in the pockets of a previous finder. Photos of a find are technically not acceptable per the guidelines, although some cache owners may accept them. But they don't have to. Bring a pen. Bring three pens.

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This one kinda bugs me sometimes. Every once in a while, I will happen upon say, a micro/nano cache. The log is full, and there is no way to replace it. I've found the cache. I have a pen. I TRIED to sign the log....but it wasn't my fault that I couldn't do so.

 

Does the smiley face go away THEN? (I know it's up to the person in charge of the cache, but I think you see what I mean with this.)

 

If the log is sign-able....I sign it. Otherwise, I mention that the log was full, but mark it as found.

In this case I would explain the situation and claim the smiley, BTDT.

 

My policy as well. I sign if I can, NM if I can't. I'll add a new log if there is room, the container is still waterproof, and I'm carrying some spares. I usually snap a photo for proof if the log is not signable.

 

Regardless, I found it so I'm logging a Find and moving on.

Write over others names if you have to, then send a NM. I use a stamp mostly. One great reason is because even if the log is wet the stamp still works.

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If they say, Didn't have a pen, but you read the other caches they did nearby and they didn't mention not having one. Hmmm... Delete.

 

You've never lost your only pen on your way to a cache?

 

Oh, and while it has been years, I have indeed logged that I would go back and sign... and did just that.

I'll write with a twig and dirt. I will take a picture, I will find someway to sign it. But I have both a stamp and a pen on a lanyard around my neck so I don't forget it.

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