critique, beta tester for a puzzle idea wanted?

April 12, 2015

I have come up with an original idea for a puzzle and wonder if there is a place to get a puzzle person to see if it is too easy or difficult and how I should implement it in a direct or indirect manner. Dont know exactly where to post this, as i havent read all the forums and this doesnt really fit in with the topics.

April 17, 2015

nobody...sigh.

okay i will just go it alone in the field

2k · April 17, 2015

Sorry, but I'm not much of a puzzle guy. But pm the details and I can see what I can do.

2.7k · April 17, 2015

I have one puzzle cache. Email me through the site and I will take a look at your idea. Maybe I can offer something useful to you.

4.6k · April 17, 2015

I'll give it a go if you want to PM me the details.

14k · April 17, 2015

critique, beta tester for a puzzle idea wanted?

I have come up with an original idea for a puzzle and wonder if there is a place to get a puzzle person to see if it is too easy or difficult and how I should implement it in a direct or indirect manner. Dont know exactly where to post this, as i havent read all the forums and this doesnt really fit in with the topics.

I have solved quite a few puzzles from the very easy to the very difficult. Send me a message and I'll be glad to take a look at your puzzle.

April 17, 2015

Sorry, saw this thread previously and got sidetracked and meant to chime in.

We've solved and hidden lots. Feel free to PM what you had in mind :-)

5.3k · April 17, 2015

nobody...sigh.

Sorry I was outtatown and not online. I'd be happy to. Beware, though -- you get my direct opinions!

April 18, 2015

when it rains it pours...thanks. messages sent.

April 24, 2015

when it rains it pours...thanks. messages sent.

I sent out some responses to the above, dont know if they got them, so just posting it.

the first two digits of the N and W will be given, you are looking for the minutes xx.xxx for each after the + sign.

just wondering if anyone can get it, and how difficult it is. dont post the answer, or the method, just if you can solve it.

Edited April 24, 2015 by craigmusselman

2k · April 24, 2015

when it rains it pours...thanks. messages sent.

I sent out some responses to the above, dont know if they got them, so just posting it.

the first two digits of the N and W will be given, you are looking for the minutes xx.xxx for each after the + sign.

just wondering if anyone can get it, and how difficult it is. dont post the answer, or the method, just if you can solve it.

I couldn't make heads or tails of it.

April 24, 2015

perhaps if there was less chaos....and the right tool

4.6k · April 24, 2015

perhaps if there was less chaos....and the right tool

I couldn't see an obvious way in either.

Or rather it looks to me like the sort of puzzle on which I could sit and come up with wild theories for days and still be miles away from the solution.

Sorry

14k · April 25, 2015

perhaps if there was less chaos....and the right tool

I couldn't see an obvious way in either.

Or rather it looks to me like the sort of puzzle on which I could sit and come up with wild theories for days and still be miles away from the solution.

Sorry

I got a copy via a PM and had the same impression. There are a few ways to turn colors into digits, but when those colored dots appear to be in somewhat of a random pattern, figuring out where to even start is pretty much a guessing game.

April 25, 2015

this is amusing so far.

I guess level 5ish.

-----

It matters that the groups are coloured, but the colour is random.

2k · April 25, 2015

I'd say slap a 5 on it and you're good to go.

15.4k · April 25, 2015

I got a copy via a PM and had the same impression. There are a few ways to turn colors into digits, but when those colored dots appear to be in somewhat of a random pattern, figuring out where to even start is pretty much a guessing game.

Yeah, around here, we call such puzzles "moon logic" puzzles. They make sense once you manage to stumble upon the correct approach (or somehow read the owner's mind), but there's no rational way to get to the correct approach. You just have to keep trying things until something works.

And when something works, you have to hope that it's actually the correct solution, and not a self-inflicted red herring.

4.6k · April 25, 2015

this is amusing so far.

Because?

April 26, 2015

this is amusing so far.

Because?

Pm talk.

I wasnt sure if it was hard or brilliant people would nail it instantly?.

3.3k · April 26, 2015

I got a copy via a PM and had the same impression. There are a few ways to turn colors into digits, but when those colored dots appear to be in somewhat of a random pattern, figuring out where to even start is pretty much a guessing game.
Yeah, around here, we call such puzzles "moon logic" puzzles. They make sense once you manage to stumble upon the correct approach (or somehow read the owner's mind), but there's no rational way to get to the correct approach. You just have to keep trying things until something works.

And when something works, you have to hope that it's actually the correct solution, and not a self-inflicted red herring.

I don't know if this one is "moon logic" or not, but too many are. They're often perfectly obvious and logical to the creator, but present nearly infinite possibilities to the prospective solver. :huh:

3.3k · April 26, 2015

I'm surprised to say an idea came to me! (Shocked, I tell ya!)

If it goes anywhere i'll message the OP through the system.

3.3k · April 26, 2015

No, my attempted solve went nowhere. :shocked:

15.4k · April 26, 2015

They're often perfectly obvious and logical to the creator, but present nearly infinite possibilities to the prospective solver.

FWIW, I see the same thing in gimmick car rallyes. New rallyemasters tend to make their first rallye much too difficult, with too many overly subtle gimmicks that no one (not even the master experts) can figure out.

It's just really hard to calibrate your own puzzle's difficulty, because you already know how it works. Solvers won't have that advantage.

April 26, 2015

Ever watch the goonies movie? Now if only you were given the right tool...

Anyway...i think it will work, i want it to be a real challenge. Anyone want the answer pm me. Thanks for everyones help.

Edited April 26, 2015 by craigmusselman

5.3k · April 26, 2015

Ever watch the goonies movie? Now if only you were given the right tool...

Anyway...i think it will work, i want it to be a real challenge. Anyone want the answer pm me. Thanks for everyones help.

I received the puzzle and looked at it a bit but your responses here make me want to not do it. Given your "goonies" comment, it is overwhelmingly likely to be a moon logic puzzle.

It's too bad you have not considered the constructive suggestions of people in this thread.

14k · April 26, 2015

I got a copy via a PM and had the same impression. There are a few ways to turn colors into digits, but when those colored dots appear to be in somewhat of a random pattern, figuring out where to even start is pretty much a guessing game.
Yeah, around here, we call such puzzles "moon logic" puzzles. They make sense once you manage to stumble upon the correct approach (or somehow read the owner's mind), but there's no rational way to get to the correct approach. You just have to keep trying things until something works.

And when something works, you have to hope that it's actually the correct solution, and not a self-inflicted red herring.

To be fair, it's hard to evaluate a puzzle with just an image that is outside the context of a complete cache listing. In a cache listing, the title, hints, and other editable regions of the cache page can provide clues that can help provide the right direction for solving what appears to be a moon logic puzzle.

April 26, 2015

Ever watch the goonies movie? Now if only you were given the right tool...

Anyway...i think it will work, i want it to be a real challenge. Anyone want the answer pm me. Thanks for everyones help.

I received the puzzle and looked at it a bit but your responses here make me want to not do it. Given your "goonies" comment, it is overwhelmingly likely to be a moon logic puzzle.

It's too bad you have not considered the constructive suggestions of people in this thread.

You dont actually know what i have considered. In fact i have decided that the way to implement it is going to be different than presented. Well actually im going to implemented both ways. Im sorry if you feel that way, or if a variety of puzzles disturbs you, or if another poster thinks "too many puzzles might be difficult", and one type might not be "good enough for you". Given the infinite amount of caches to choose from to solve i hardly think it matters whether someone likes a "moon logic puzzle" or a level 1, phone it in smiley. Considering a milion people bought MYST, I think there might be some enjoyment in this type. As far as advice, the reactions here let me decide to put the difficult version out in the boonies where it can be a rarely visited location for people who like this sort of thing, like the people who actually used the hints I gave to solve it already that didnt post here, and a more "lead them by the nose step by step version" in a more visited spot.

Anyway thanks for the help of those chatting.

4.6k · April 26, 2015

like the people who actually used the hints I gave to solve it already that didnt post here,

So there are people who have used the hint you gave and have managed to solve it - but they just haven't posted here?

And those people are members of this forum who have sight of this thread?

April 26, 2015

like the people who actually used the hints I gave to solve it already that didnt post here,

So there are people who have used the hint you gave and have managed to solve it - but they just haven't posted here?

And those people are members of this forum who have sight of this thread?

there is a whole world outside of geocaching.com I like to work in parallel.

I make a lot of puzzles and show them to people this one is new. I have never really chatted with people here, so I didnt know what to expect as far as puzzle ability. I'm from a town where a rock concert may not really get the audience to buy tickets, but a 500 seat lecture on advanced quantum mechanics sells out in LITERALLY less than 1 second after posting tickets online. (That isnt even an exaggeration - Perimeter Institute in waterloo ).

11.7k · April 26, 2015

like the people who actually used the hints I gave to solve it already that didnt post here,

So there are people who have used the hint you gave and have managed to solve it - but they just haven't posted here?

And those people are members of this forum who have sight of this thread?

there is a whole world outside of geocaching.com I like to work in parallel.

I'm amazed that non-cachers work on your caching puzzles. If I present an idea to my non-caching friends and relatives, their eyes glaze over. They won't even consider any puzzle, nor offer advice on it. OK, one guy said he thinks it would be cool to "hide a Geocache in a box of cereal!" (and he was not kidding). You're very fortunate!

Your puzzle is a non-standard one. It's not a Sudoku or whatever with commonly understood rules. If the idea is that cachers must figure out what the puzzle is, I'd suggest not providing hints later. I might work on it for months or years. After I invest lots of time trying to crack it, it feels cheap when new hints give it all away. The new hints are allowed (whatever you want to do in that matter is pretty much allowed, although the cache difficulty rating may then need to be reconsidered), but once the hints begin, I'm less inclined to bother with that CO's puzzles in the future. And I can't stand when cachers get inside info from the Cache Owner to find the cache, which is not provided on the cache page, but that's probably another subject.

I have a vague idea of what I might try, based on one posted hint , but if the cache description is understandable, even the most moon logical puzzles are fine. And that's a nice, clear image, too! It says "Don't look for the answer!", which I'd assume means "The image itself doesn't contain the coordinates" (OK, I assume I've assumed incorrectly), and the part about "you're looking for 'xx.xxx'" seems to mean the solution is the exact same numbers for both N & W. Or not. Unless you intend to distract people from the puzzle, the cache page would specify that the coordinates are hidden within the puzzle image, and that the solver is looking for two sets of numbers.

If it confuses me, it confuses others. That may be the intention, and there's nothing wrong with that. Vague instructions add another layer of difficulty. But if the plan is to have people work the puzzle (rather than figure out what "xx.xxx" means), clarification would be good. I looked at an unsolved high-difficulty puzzle recently that had a list numbered "#1, #2, #3, #4, ##5, #6", and wrote to the CO to ensure "##5" is in fact part of the puzzle. Nope. It was a typo. :laughing:

Edited April 26, 2015 by kunarion

5.3k · April 26, 2015

Considering a milion people bought MYST, I think there might be some enjoyment in this type.

The puzzles in Myst were brilliant; many I consider masterpieces. Yours, alas, is not one of those.

11.7k · April 26, 2015

Considering a milion people bought MYST, I think there might be some enjoyment in this type.

The puzzles in Myst were brilliant; many I consider masterpieces.

I enjoyed "Myst", "The Seventh Guest", and "The Fools Errand", which each had puzzles I puzzled over for a long time. The brilliant thing about those kinds of puzzles, is they build on each other and tie together into a theme.

I think my own cache puzzles are fun (not too hard for most people), but I created the majority of them with the express intention that the cache would be found less often. That plan worked perfectly. :anicute:

Edited April 26, 2015 by kunarion

April 26, 2015

Considering a milion people bought MYST, I think there might be some enjoyment in this type.

The puzzles in Myst were brilliant; many I consider masterpieces. Yours, alas, is not one of those.

personally, I would reserve judgement on something I hadnt solved yet, as to whether I liked it in the end or not, and I would consider the vast majority of myst to be a giant "moon-puzzle" so to speak, although I dont claim to be competing with myst, it is just a chache not a million dollar enterprise.

I do apologize if the xx.xxx was confusing, they were meant to be placeholders for format rather than repeated variables. The actual number is on the one I intend to implement, i just didnt want you to have the exact coordinates at the moment. This is a critique beta after all, everything can be improved.

I really havent given many direct hints, other than a tool would help, and the format that such a tool would take (which nobody seemed to ask about, actually). Of course this isnt really a hint as the hint is given in the OP. The text clue , was gotten by several people immediately, even those here, but there is another part of the puzzle that seems to be the difficult part, which the people who have solved it, seemed to have gotten right away, to my dismay actually. The fact that it is a visual puzzle rather than one based on math or literacy statistics makes it unusual.

As to the poster whose non-cacher friends roll their eyes when you try to geek on them about puzzles, it helps if those friends are bigger nerds than you and extra bonus if they are older AD&D players who faced this kind of stuff on a weekly basis. Most of my friends are much nerdier than me so they enjoy puzzles. Most of them try to avoid people colloquially referred to as "normals" as they are usually mutually difficult to interact with, having little experience on this board, I have no idea about the habits and personalities here, and will still reserve judgement, based on small sample size.

I was trying to create an slightly original puzzle than the standard math or letter substitution code, which would be a challenge and it is actually something that is pretty easily copied, especially the thumbtack format if it was popular, which may or may not come to be, it might even be a fun job for kids to do the actual work of the thumbtack format.

All good comments so far. Everything can be made better.

Edited April 26, 2015 by craigmusselman

April 26, 2015

Considering a milion people bought MYST, I think there might be some enjoyment in this type.

The puzzles in Myst were brilliant; many I consider masterpieces. Yours, alas, is not one of those.

Wow ... so we can assume you have solved it then. Obviously. Else you wouldn't know to compare it.

Loved Myst/Rivan/Myst III exile (which I didn't complete or even scratch the surface of. My favourite games ever. Stayed awake from opening the box to completion of Myst. Think it took us three days. Thanks for bringing up Myst. I'm doing Myst again on the iPhone now ... how things have changed. I know what I need to do I just can't remember how to do it now lol.

4.6k · April 27, 2015

I'm still waiting for the OP to send me the solution.

April 27, 2015

I'm still waiting for the OP to send me the solution.

sent solution

7.3k · May 8, 2015

http://coord.info/GC5TKRR

B.

4.6k · May 8, 2015

http://coord.info/GC5TKRR

B.

D5 for a nano.

Yippee.

15.4k · May 8, 2015

http://coord.info/GC5TKRR
D5 for a nano.

Yippee.

Well, based on the theme*, I suppose a blinker makes sense.

*Assuming that I have the theme right. I haven't actually solved the puzzle yet.

5.3k · May 8, 2015

A friend reminded me what we used to call this kind of puzzle back in the day: mental ivy. Moon logic is used more often today, but I always loved the imagery of a mental version of an ivy hide.

7.3k · May 8, 2015

Now I know why I couldn't play Myst. <_< :rolleyes:

May 9, 2015

As one commenter posted the puzzle is live so i wont say anything for a while. I did add a bit to the picture in the live version, but no real changes. The park of the given coordinates is quite a nice little park, with a war memorial, splash pad, band stand, picnic area, as well as fancy gates, all downtown. Right out of the 50's.

4.6k · May 9, 2015

I took up the OP's offer of the solution. Given that I'm thousands of miles away and will never find the cache, this gives me no useful advantage.

Given that I don't give out hints on puzzles by other CO's, preferring to respect their efforts and what is effectively intellectual property in many cases, me having that solution also confers no advantage to anyone else.

Being completely honest I've struggled to follow the description of the means to solve the puzzle to a useful conclusion - I understand what the end result is but not how to get there.

I've asked for some clarification this morning (UK time) which will hopefully allow me to finally provide the critique requested on the OP

critique, beta tester for a puzzle idea wanted?

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