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Home location, privacy


PnavE_81

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First let me say, I have a backyard cache, so my home location is kind of out in the open. This discussion is meant to be about the general privacy issue, not my own.

 

We all have the option to set our home location in our profile. This information is clearly marked as private

Homelocation

 

By choosing your homelocation you can addept your userexperience. This information isn't shared with others

(this is my own translation from the dutch text, so it isn't an exact match, but the meaning should be the same)

 

Recently someone from the dutch community discoverd this information IS available with the api. (with the GetAnotherUsersProfile function). After GS heard about this, this was fixed almost instantly (without any public attention to the fact private info was publically available, which was a mistake in my opinion)

Now I heard from people with access to the api developers part of this forum, that this bugfix is being undone! Homecoördinates are being made public with the API again but an random error is introduced. So you wouldn't know an exact address for someone in an urban environement. (I don't know if the random error will be big enough for rural environements with no other houses around). The reason for this is that some websites already used this information for statistics.

 

The reason I start this thread is to share the knowledge that your homecoördinates which are clearly marked as private aren't as private as said. Before the beginning of march this year they were even available to anyone who is able to use the api (with a macro in gsak for example). Maybe there already exist a database with homecoördinates for all users which has found it's way in wrong hands???

 

Of course you can change your homecoordinates yourself and add a small error (maybe most people do that already?), but that should not be needed. Private information should be private and the decision for sharing this should be made by the user himself, not by Groundspeak.

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Of course you can change your homecoordinates yourself and add a small error (maybe most people do that already?), but that should not be needed.

All that I know, use only a ~close~ approximation of their home coordinates. This should be a standard operating practice of ANYONE putting their person information anywhere online.

 

If one relies on what the holder of your information says, well... they are in for a rude awakening. Be it an honest mistake or a less-than-honest mistake, it doesn't matter. Bottom line is: you are the keeper of your privacy. Not somebody else.

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I would never use the actual coordinates for my house on the internet.

 

Use the coordinates of a nearby cache, that's good enough for Groundspeak purposes.

 

Doesn't Groundspeak suggest that? It used to.

 

In this day and age, anyone who thinks that their private info on the internet is actually private is deluding themself.

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol
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Honestly it's jot a big deal. For one I (and so do many others) just use the co-ords for a nearby cache. Second even if they got rid of the home co-ords completely, it would still be relatively easy to find where a certain cacher lives, or at least spends a lot of time. It might make it easier to find you. Removing it might make it a bit harder, but certainly not impossible. Even assuming the only people who can see that info are Groundspeak employees, they can still see that info. You don't know those people; they might be the ones to abuse that info.

 

Remember nothing on the Internet is private. Even the most secure companies get hacked. The only way to ensure your privacy is to not put out anything that you don't want people to see.

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Thanks for the heads-up.

We've given ourselves a good distance error since we started.

I think the only way we'd be upset is if that "random error" another's introducing turned out to be right-on-the-money.

I suppose it could happen.

 

- Then nobody wants to try to find an armed, grouchy ol' geezer anyway. :laughing:

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I think that randomizing the user's home coordinates was a better solution than terminating the license agreements with the API developers who chose to expose the information, because many geocachers enjoy the statistics and other features made available via the API and partner applications.

 

My coordinates have been set at the entrance to my subdivision since I set up my account nearly 13 years ago. And, I've never hidden a cache in my front yard. All that a geocacher can figure out from my cache hides, logs and forum posts is that I live somewhere in that subdivision.

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Do I want everyone to know right where I live? No, but I lost that right the very first day signed up for a credit card, paid my taxes, became a Web page host, got a radio license...... It keeps going. If you are worried about GS letting people know where you live you should see some of the free sites out there that just mine data from all over the net. I ran myself once (everyone should do this once in a while) and it had info on my entire family, phone numbers, girlfriend's (now wife's) info on her and family. Had my address from when I was 10 and lived in a completely diffrent area and I have a very common name... Privacy is a thing of the past. I think it died years ago with the rising of the facespaces and tweeteres..

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I've always just chosen a cache nearby.

 

It's fun to pick a cache that's out in a lake, but there's not always that option. :)

 

 

Those coords are just for you to be able to see a map of your area easily and also for a reviewer to be able to see that you live in the area when they review any caches you submit. It doesn't have to be your actual home. Even a mile away works fine.

 

I appreciate you bringing this information to our attention though. It's good to be aware of. Thanks.

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Do I want everyone to know right where I live? No, but I lost that right the very first day signed up for a credit card, paid my taxes, became a Web page host, got a radio license...... It keeps going. If you are worried about GS letting people know where you live you should see some of the free sites out there that just mine data from all over the net. I ran myself once (everyone should do this once in a while) and it had info on my entire family, phone numbers, girlfriend's (now wife's) info on her and family. Had my address from when I was 10 and lived in a completely diffrent area and I have a very common name... Privacy is a thing of the past. I think it died years ago with the rising of the facespaces and tweeteres..

 

I had a friend who needed the phone number to her ex's sister (for good purposes) and asked if I could get it off the web.

 

I came back with her phone number, address, where she went to school, what she enjoys to do, and what kind of dog she has. My friend didn't even know she had a dog.

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I really don't understand what the fear is. My home address is available in any of a number of ways, including the phone book (unless I have an unlisted number). How is it a problem that your home coordinates are available, particularly since it is tied to an alias (your geocaching screen name) and not your actual name. Please explain.

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I really don't understand what the fear is. My home address is available in any of a number of ways, including the phone book (unless I have an unlisted number). How is it a problem that your home coordinates are available, particularly since it is tied to an alias (your geocaching screen name) and not your actual name. Please explain.

 

Crazy part us even unlisted is not always unlisted...

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I think that randomizing the user's home coordinates was a better solution than terminating the license agreements with the API developers who chose to expose the information, because many geocachers enjoy the statistics and other features made available via the API and partner applications.

 

My coordinates have been set at the entrance to my subdivision since I set up my account nearly 13 years ago. And, I've never hidden a cache in my front yard. All that a geocacher can figure out from my cache hides, logs and forum posts is that I live somewhere in that subdivision.

 

The site says: Home Location - Choosing your home location personalizes the geocaching experience to your area. This information is kept private.

 

To me that means neither you or Groundspeak gets to decide for me if randomizing or terminating an agreement is a better option. In my opinion, Groundseak keeping their written word is the only option. Which includes being honest about changing it IN A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT if that is what they decide they must do. Since when did we give Groundspeak permission to decide what is best for us when it comes to any form of "information kept private" release?

 

And it doesn't matter to me if there is little or no consequence to this data "leak". That is not the deciding factor to determine if they should be honest or not. And yes, I already randomized my own Home Coordinates. But I am also a licensed radio operator. Want to find me? It should not take long. That doesn't change the fact that we did not give Groundspeak the right to make this decisions on our behalf with information supplied in confidence. Obviously we are giving personal opinions here, and not legal ones. I am not qualified to do so, but I think someone representing Groundspeak owes us a LEGAL explanation for thinking that not publicly reporting a data breach and then being less than 100% honest about their own personal definition of private is OK.

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I would never use the actual coordinates for my house on the internet.

[

Use the coordinates of a nearby cache, that's good enough for Groundspeak purposes.

 

Doesn't Groundspeak suggest that? It used to.

 

In this day and age, anyone who thinks that their private info on the internet is actually private is deluding themself.

 

 

B.

 

That's what I remember the suggestion to be. It specifically said the "home" coords could be some nearby landmark, the center of town, or a police station.

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I would never use the actual coordinates for my house on the internet.

 

Use the coordinates of a nearby cache, that's good enough for Groundspeak purposes.

 

Doesn't Groundspeak suggest that? It used to.

 

In this day and age, anyone who thinks that their private info on the internet is actually private is deluding themself.

 

 

B.

Mines just move around and sometime as far a 10 miles away.

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I think that randomizing the user's home coordinates was a better solution than terminating the license agreements with the API developers who chose to expose the information, because many geocachers enjoy the statistics and other features made available via the API and partner applications.

 

My coordinates have been set at the entrance to my subdivision since I set up my account nearly 13 years ago. And, I've never hidden a cache in my front yard. All that a geocacher can figure out from my cache hides, logs and forum posts is that I live somewhere in that subdivision.

 

The site says: Home Location - Choosing your home location personalizes the geocaching experience to your area. This information is kept private.

 

To me that means neither you or Groundspeak gets to decide for me if randomizing or terminating an agreement is a better option. In my opinion, Groundseak keeping their written word is the only option. Which includes being honest about changing it IN A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT if that is what they decide they must do. Since when did we give Groundspeak permission to decide what is best for us when it comes to any form of "information kept private" release?

 

And it doesn't matter to me if there is little or no consequence to this data "leak". That is not the deciding factor to determine if they should be honest or not. And yes, I already randomized my own Home Coordinates. But I am also a licensed radio operator. Want to find me? It should not take long. That doesn't change the fact that we did not give Groundspeak the right to make this decisions on our behalf with information supplied in confidence. Obviously we are giving personal opinions here, and not legal ones. I am not qualified to do so, but I think someone representing Groundspeak owes us a LEGAL explanation for thinking that not publicly reporting a data breach and then being less than 100% honest about their own personal definition of private is OK.

 

Ok, from that viewpoint, you are correct. I am less worried about the "release" of my location as before stated. But, looking at it from a position that they "hid" this info from you and I makes you wonder what else they may just leave out if they want to save face.

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I really don't understand what the fear is. My home address is available in any of a number of ways, including the phone book (unless I have an unlisted number). How is it a problem that your home coordinates are available, particularly since it is tied to an alias (your geocaching screen name) and not your actual name. Please explain.

^ ^ ^

This.

 

Most people who know me know my full name, and they know what country, state and county I live in. I also own a home. With that information, in about two minutes anyone can look up my property on the County Auditor's Web site. You'll see a nice photo of the front of my house, and complete location information, including my address and how many bedrooms and bathrooms I have. If you're really bored, you can also find out how much I paid for the place and how much I pay in property taxes.

 

If someone wants to know where I live, the information is out there and easy to find. There's a lot of personal information that I'm careful to protect, but my home address isn't one of them. It would be a pointless exercise.

 

Whatever promises Groundspeak makes in terms of protecting users' privacy should be kept, but I can't get all that worked up about the home location aspect.

 

--Larry

Edited by larryc43230
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While I'm thinking of it, set the "Home" location on your car's GPS to the post office or police station in your town. If someone steals your car, they can't use the GPS to find your house and use the garage door opener to break in.

 

If they steal my car and check the waypoint labelled "Home" on my GPS, how will they know whether my younger, bigger, no-account brother and his dog aren't keeping the fort while I'm away? :P

 

As I mentioned earlier, finding out where I live is the easy part....

 

--Larry

Edited by larryc43230
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While I'm thinking of it, set the "Home" location on your car's GPS to the post office or police station in your town. If someone steals your car, they can't use the GPS to find your house and use the garage door opener to break in.

 

If they steal my car and check the waypoint labelled "Home" on my GPS, how will they know whether my younger, bigger, no-account brother and his dog aren't keeping the fort while I'm away? :P

 

As I mentioned earlier, finding out where I live is the easy part....

 

--Larry

 

^^^^

That

 

:rolleyes:

 

I've heard that advice many times. It may or may not be based on some actual situation(s) but would be so extremely rare. It is based on one of those "pass it on" emails that has been circulating since 2008. As usual with those emails, there is a ring of truth to it, but in my opinion, it really doesn't pass critical thinking. Nevertheless, while I have my home stored as a Favorite on my Nuvi, I don't have it stored under the Home address. But really... putting the police department address as my home? :P I mean, reeeeealy?

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If they steal my car and check the waypoint labelled "Home" on my GPS, how will they know whether my younger, bigger, no-account brother and his dog aren't keeping the fort while I'm away? :P
Why don't you get him an account? A basic account is free, and then he could go geocaching on his own. :P
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If they steal my car and check the waypoint labelled "Home" on my GPS, how will they know whether my younger, bigger, no-account brother and his dog aren't keeping the fort while I'm away? :P
Why don't you get him an account? A basic account is free, and then he could go geocaching on his own. :P

Might be a good idea, except that I'd rather he stayed around to fend off that thief who stole my GPS and found my "Home" waypoint.

 

Oh, wait, you mean the thief and not my no-account brother? I would, but I'd need his e-mail address to register him.

 

I do NOT want to register anyone without including an e-mail address. But that's a whole 'nother subject.

 

--Larry

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Oh, wait, you mean the thief and not my no-account brother?
No, I meant your no-account brother.

 

I have a no-account brother too, but he's not really interested in geocaching, so he doesn't need an account. My sister, on the other hand, does have an account.

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If they steal my car and check the waypoint labelled "Home" on my GPS, how will they know whether my younger, bigger, no-account brother and his dog aren't keeping the fort while I'm away? :P

For that matter, how do they know that my younger, bigger, no-account brother and his dog aren't isn't robbing me blind while I'm away from the house? Nothing to steal... move along.

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While I'm thinking of it, set the "Home" location on your car's GPS to the post office or police station in your town. If someone steals your car, they can't use the GPS to find your house and use the garage door opener to break in.

 

And keep your registration / insurance cards in your wallet, not your glove box for the same reasoning.

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While I'm thinking of it, set the "Home" location on your car's GPS to the post office or police station in your town. If someone steals your car, they can't use the GPS to find your house and use the garage door opener to break in.

 

And keep your registration / insurance cards in your wallet, not your glove box for the same reasoning.

 

Thank god we don't have to do that here.... don't need any more crap in my wallet.

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Oh, wait, you mean the thief and not my no-account brother?
No, I meant your no-account brother.

 

I have a no-account brother too, but he's not really interested in geocaching, so he doesn't need an account. My sister, on the other hand, does have an account.

Actually, I don't have a brother of any sort, but don't tell that to the thief who stole my GPS.

 

It's sort of like those fake "This house protected by BrandX Security System" signs. Except that thieves are on to those by now.

 

--Larry

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I think that randomizing the user's home coordinates was a better solution than terminating the license agreements with the API developers who chose to expose the information, because many geocachers enjoy the statistics and other features made available via the API and partner applications.

 

My coordinates have been set at the entrance to my subdivision since I set up my account nearly 13 years ago. And, I've never hidden a cache in my front yard. All that a geocacher can figure out from my cache hides, logs and forum posts is that I live somewhere in that subdivision.

 

The site says: Home Location - Choosing your home location personalizes the geocaching experience to your area. This information is kept private.

 

To me that means neither you or Groundspeak gets to decide for me if randomizing or terminating an agreement is a better option. In my opinion, Groundseak keeping their written word is the only option. Which includes being honest about changing it IN A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT if that is what they decide they must do. Since when did we give Groundspeak permission to decide what is best for us when it comes to any form of "information kept private" release?

 

And it doesn't matter to me if there is little or no consequence to this data "leak". That is not the deciding factor to determine if they should be honest or not. And yes, I already randomized my own Home Coordinates. But I am also a licensed radio operator. Want to find me? It should not take long. That doesn't change the fact that we did not give Groundspeak the right to make this decisions on our behalf with information supplied in confidence. Obviously we are giving personal opinions here, and not legal ones. I am not qualified to do so, but I think someone representing Groundspeak owes us a LEGAL explanation for thinking that not publicly reporting a data breach and then being less than 100% honest about their own personal definition of private is OK.

Thanks, at least someone got the point I tried to make

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While I'm thinking of it, set the "Home" location on your car's GPS to the post office or police station in your town. If someone steals your car, they can't use the GPS to find your house and use the garage door opener to break in.

 

And keep your registration / insurance cards in your wallet, not your glove box for the same reasoning.

Never do that!! If you let someone else drive your car... let say your family member and you didnt have those papers in the car, it can cause alot of problem.

 

Sometime I have my parents use my car to drop me off at the airport.

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In this day and age all your info is on the computer in the police car (it is what I do, so I would know). I do not ask for anything but a license now and a reg card only if there is a reg problem. Otherwise everything is on my MDC. With ID theft the way it is now we even take insurance cards from photos on phones in PA as an acceptable "insurance card." You do need to make sure insurance is around for accident reasons but a photocopy can go to your parents for their wallet. Around here, ID theft 101 we teach to leave nothing with who you are in your car.

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In this day and age all your info is on the computer in the police car (it is what I do, so I would know). I do not ask for anything but a license now and a reg card only if there is a reg problem. Otherwise everything is on my MDC. With ID theft the way it is now we even take insurance cards from photos on phones in PA as an acceptable "insurance card." You do need to make sure insurance is around for accident reasons but a photocopy can go to your parents for their wallet. Around here, ID theft 101 we teach to leave nothing with who you are in your car.

(rhetorical question... no need to respond) why hasn't the general public been informed of this? Minnesota still refers to the registration as the "Cab card" and tells you to keep that, and your insurance information, in your vehicle at all times.

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In this day and age all your info is on the computer in the police car (it is what I do, so I would know). I do not ask for anything but a license now and a reg card only if there is a reg problem. Otherwise everything is on my MDC. With ID theft the way it is now we even take insurance cards from photos on phones in PA as an acceptable "insurance card." You do need to make sure insurance is around for accident reasons but a photocopy can go to your parents for their wallet. Around here, ID theft 101 we teach to leave nothing with who you are in your car.

(rhetorical question... no need to respond) why hasn't the general public been informed of this? Minnesota still refers to the registration as the "Cab card" and tells you to keep that, and your insurance information, in your vehicle at all times.

 

I'll respond... I would guess it would be state dependent. MN might be different than PA and may very well require the card in the car. Technically our vehicle code requires it as well but the code is from the 70's when it was last overhauled, times have changed. Here "cab cards" are carried by the truckers.

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In this day and age all your info is on the computer in the police car (it is what I do, so I would know). I do not ask for anything but a license now and a reg card only if there is a reg problem. Otherwise everything is on my MDC. With ID theft the way it is now we even take insurance cards from photos on phones in PA as an acceptable "insurance card." You do need to make sure insurance is around for accident reasons but a photocopy can go to your parents for their wallet. Around here, ID theft 101 we teach to leave nothing with who you are in your car.

(rhetorical question... no need to respond) why hasn't the general public been informed of this? Minnesota still refers to the registration as the "Cab card" and tells you to keep that, and your insurance information, in your vehicle at all times.

 

I'll respond... I would guess it would be state dependent. MN might be different than PA and may very well require the card in the car. Technically our vehicle code requires it as well but the code is from the 70's when it was last overhauled, times have changed. Here "cab cards" are carried by the truckers.

PA vehicle code 75, 1311 states:

 

Registration card to be signed and exhibited on demand.

Part B: Carrying and exhibiting card.--Every registration card shall, at all times while the vehicle is being operated upon a highway, be in the possession of the person driving or in control of the vehicle or carried in the vehicle and shall be exhibited upon demand of any police officer.

 

I keep mine in my wallet, CJ keeps hers in her glove box.

- Both of us are correct.

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I think that randomizing the user's home coordinates was a better solution than terminating the license agreements with the API developers who chose to expose the information, because many geocachers enjoy the statistics and other features made available via the API and partner applications.

 

My coordinates have been set at the entrance to my subdivision since I set up my account nearly 13 years ago. And, I've never hidden a cache in my front yard. All that a geocacher can figure out from my cache hides, logs and forum posts is that I live somewhere in that subdivision.

 

The site says: Home Location - Choosing your home location personalizes the geocaching experience to your area. This information is kept private.

 

To me that means neither you or Groundspeak gets to decide for me if randomizing or terminating an agreement is a better option. In my opinion, Groundspeak keeping their written word is the only option. Which includes being honest about changing it IN A PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT if that is what they decide they must do. Since when did we give Groundspeak permission to decide what is best for us when it comes to any form of "information kept private" release?

 

And it doesn't matter to me if there is little or no consequence to this data "leak". That is not the deciding factor to determine if they should be honest or not. And yes, I already randomized my own Home Coordinates. But I am also a licensed radio operator. Want to find me? It should not take long. That doesn't change the fact that we did not give Groundspeak the right to make this decisions on our behalf with information supplied in confidence. Obviously we are giving personal opinions here, and not legal ones. I am not qualified to do so, but I think someone representing Groundspeak owes us a LEGAL explanation for thinking that not publicly reporting a data breach and then being less than 100% honest about their own personal definition of private is OK.

 

This is the only meaningful reply I've read here.

 

Indeed Groundspeak has to hold on to what they let us believe on their website by saying "This information is kept private". That's the only thing that matters here. Not that you have no privacy on the internet, etc, etc, etc, that's not the point. The point is that Groundspeak had/has a privacy breach and that they don't communicate about it and most importantly that they are not legally right by giving our private info to the greater public.

 

On March 11th Geo-Brein (a Belgium geocaching website) wrote about this problem and asked themselves the question when or if Groundspeak would communicate about this problem. Until today the answer is negative. Even in this topic there hasn't been any reply of a lackey or other Groundspeak person. That says enough, no? They just want to keep this whole matter one big secret. But guess what ... it isn't anymore!!!

 

I also ask myself the question if it's legal to give our home coordinates a random error??? They do use our private info again!? Fact is that even with the random error it isn't that difficult for peoples who doesn't have proper intentions to narrow down their search area if they are up to no good.

 

Once again a whole bunch of questions about that huge company Groundspeak!!!

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It would be interesting to get a response but like I said in another thread about a response from GS... Good luck, not right, but what it is. We make up 10k forum users of the millions of cachers worldwide (made up numbers) so our demands mean little.

 

Cerberus : I was remarking about not having the card in the car at all. You are correct it is required to just be shown, not kept in a car (in pa). My point was very few of us would ever enforce that here if you mom had your car and could not find it..

Edited by doc73
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I really don't understand what the fear is. My home address is available in any of a number of ways, including the phone book (unless I have an unlisted number). How is it a problem that your home coordinates are available, particularly since it is tied to an alias (your geocaching screen name) and not your actual name. Please explain.

Armed with your home coordinates, someone can go backwards: figure out the address, then use a reverse look up to discover your actual name so you're no longer anonymous.

 

Personally, I don't believe in acting anonymously, but many people feel quite strongly about being able to bitch on the web without anyone being able to figure out who they are.

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My theory, I say nothing I would not say to ones face. Maybe the forums and other similar sites would be nice when your real name, phot and address was listed so you could not hide behind the keyboard. I bet have the troublesome ones would either not say a work or be seem as actual bored 11 year old trying to bate.

Edited by doc73
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I gave lived in two different apartments while caching.in both cases, my home coords were the intersection at the entrance to the neighborhood.

 

Besides privacy, those coordinates were more useful anyway since I had to pass through that intersection everytime I left to go caching.

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My theory, I say nothing I would not say to ones face. Maybe the forums and other similar sites would be nice when your real name, phot and address was listed so you could not hide behind the keyboard. I bet have the troublesome ones would either not say a work or be seem as actual bored 11 year old trying to bate.

 

What is your real name and address? :rolleyes:

 

Maybe the forums would be nicer, but I'm not so sure our homes would be. :huh:

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I know this topic has died, just as well, but I was listening to a podcast last night while at work. It was called Geogearheads and it was from 2012 and oddly enough in reference to the GS API going live at that point. They were interviewing a member of the GS crew (Irish I think the last name was). He spoke of the API going up and what was available to the other programs through the API. One thing of interest and of which was clearly stated... Your home location. That was in 2012 so seems like the private home location has been a bust since at least then.

Edited by doc73
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1427606835[/url]' post='5488693']

My neighbors know where I live so why would I care if a geocacher knew where I lived? I have locks on my doors and locks on my car. I don't see how a geocacher would be any different then anyone else knowing. Any random person could try to break in at any time.

 

They need to change this statement on the preferences home location page. Is it intentionally misleading?:

Choosing your home location personalizes the geocaching experience to your area. This information is kept private.

Remove the last sentence, replace with 'This information is shared with API developers.'

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My neighbors know where I live so why would I care if a geocacher knew where I lived? I have locks on my doors and locks on my car. I don't see how a geocacher would be any different then anyone else knowing. Any random person could try to break in at any time.

 

This is NOT THE POINT!!! the point is that Groundspeak uses private information and throws (or threw) it public by use of the LiveAPI.

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My neighbors know where I live so why would I care if a geocacher knew where I lived? I have locks on my doors and locks on my car. I don't see how a geocacher would be any different then anyone else knowing. Any random person could try to break in at any time.

 

This is NOT THE POINT!!! the point is that Groundspeak uses private information and throws (or threw) it public by use of the LiveAPI.

 

But that is not the point being raised in this thread by the OP, who was only concerned about being able to hide her activities from another cacher.

 

The fact that there was a bug in the API which potentially allowed people to see home co-ords is a different matter.

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