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What is the value of old timers in caching?


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It's not only how long those who have cached or how many. Its how they cache. Have they found different types or only easy trads? Differenct types of containers or just film canisters and ammo cans?

 

I regard myself as old timer, but not as an experienced well rounded cacher and I have no interest into turning into the latter. I started geocaching in 2002 and there are many cachers who cache less than 2 years who are more ambitious, experienced and skilled when it comes to searching for/finding difficult hides. That's not at all what attracts me into geocaching.

 

Okay, but this thread isn't about what brought you (the general you) to geocaching. It's about those with a certain amount of longevity with the game have brought to geocaching.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that. I replied to jellis' post which was not about what someone brought to geocaching at all.

 

As long as however it is not defined what old timer means, it is hard to answer the question. Someone who started in 2009 is not what I regard as old timer.

If it's about experienced cachers, I would say I have not made a significant contribution at all. If it's about helping to start geocaching in an area, my answer would be a different one when it comes to my person. I have hidden caches and maintained them over a long time and I always tried to help those who asked me for help.

I never tried to talk someone into geocaching and have mentioned geocaching to maybe 2-3 people not being cachers, not more.

Edited by cezanne
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IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

Even if you were one of the inventors of GPS technology, if you haven't geocached before, you are a newbie to geocaching. Knowledge of how to use the GPS is only one part of being a geocacher (you know that, of course).

 

But this isn't about who is a newbie and who is an old timer. This is about Groundspeak deciding that they would be better without the presence of several regular posters here and giving them lifelong forum bans. And from the best of our knowledge, the motives have little or nothing to do with recent posts that they've made, having more to do with the number of previous warnings or time-outs, without equally looking at the number of forum posts overall.

 

Forum regulars are, in a large way, another aspect of the volunteer culture that helps Groundspeak run with a relatively low overhead. I think that most are here with the best intentions. But occasionally personalities clash, opinions get expressed, something harmless gets misinterpreted, etc and the member who has spent countless hours here trying to help finds themselves with a warning about their behavior, or perhaps even given a "timeout" (yeah, sounds pretty childish to me, too. Go stand in your corner and think about what you have done and don't come out until I call you)

 

The more a forum volunteer posts, the more likely it is that one of those posts is going to hit somebody wrong and trigger a disciplinary action against them.

 

I queried two posters that I know. One has been banned, one has not, but has received a few warnings/timeouts.

 

One that has been recently banned made 10,134 posts to the forums (since when, I don't know when he started posting). They said he had 7 warnings. That is one warning (or timeout) for every 1,447 posts!

 

Another has made 3,121 posts with approximately 4 disciplinary actions, giving one warning (or timeout) for every 803 posts! This person has not (yet, at least) been banned.

 

I happen to know that the letter that was sent to the banned forum volunteer mentioned above stated that "the average forum poster does not have one warning or timeout". Fair enough: but now, how many posts does the average forum poster have? Does the average poster have 1,447 posts yet? I doubt it.

 

I went on a voluntary hiatus from these forums for a couple of years, only recently returning, very gingerly. I left because several timeouts and warnings that totally blindsided me had me walking on eggshells. I received extreme support from other posters here when I left... something that I still feel very blessed for. Groundspeak, your regulars are your volunteers, not your employees. Most of us have been paid members for years, supporting Groundspeak not only with our dollar, but with hidden geocaches and generally helpful forum work. Thank us and help us, don't "fire" us!

 

I have more to say but I had better post this before the thread goes up in a puff of pink smoke.

 

It's good to hear your comments. I consider you the paradigm of a "Mainstay." If your moderate viewpoints are ever considered too extreme, then the forum has truly gone to "H"!

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Well, let's throw a whole new wrench in the works, shall we? LOL.

 

I'm a Charter Member, first joined Geocaching in 2000, even before memberships were offered. I've stayed active all this time, but not really to find caches, but to maintain those I have, mostly virtuals from the early days of Geocaching.

 

So, even though I have only a little over 200 "finds", I still maintain quite a few virtual caches, and a couple of physical caches, all over the place. I have the oldest virtual cache in Yellowstone National Park, for instance, "Shoshone Nickname".

 

But I only occasionally look for the odd cache or two. I've got a couple I want to find this summer in the mountains of Montana, but I'm really not interested in the "park and find" caches along the roads. Now it has to be more of a meaningful cache for me to hunt it, rather than just another cache. It's just how my interest has changed over the years. So while I might be considered an "old timer", I'm not one with thousands of caches under my belt, just not my thing. But I have several ammo cans out in Texas, and 15 virtual caches I still get the answers to and acknowledge every day. I intend to do so till I can't anymore, or Geocaching goes away.

 

So if you find yourself on the top of Pike's Peak, or on top of a volcano in New Mexico, standing in front of the soldiers maker in the Little Bighorn Battlefield, or a coastal fort in Florida, you might find one of my virtuals. But you will even more rarely find me out looking for a cache, lol.

 

Mac McKinney aka Breaktrack

Edited by Breaktrack
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Well, let's throw a whole new wrench in the works, shall we? LOL.

 

I'm a Charter Member, first joined Geocaching in 2000, even before memberships were offered. I've stayed active all this time, but not really to find caches, but to maintain those I have, mostly virtuals from the early days of Geocaching...

 

Nice to meet you, Breaktrack! It's great to have a Charter Member join the conversation.

 

I think this was brought up a while back in some long-gone thread but wouldn't it be nice to have a pinned list of members who were "dedicated practitioners" or "specialists" in geocaching who would be considered the people to talk to about certain facets of the game? A pinned thread at the top of the three major subforums could be entitled "Ask A Cacher" and contain the names, profile links and contact info (if offered) of people willing to be a direct resource to their fellow cachers. Breaktrack, for example, if he were willing, could be the go-to guy for questions and insight into Virtuals. NeverSummer might be listed under "Friendly Neighbourhood Cacher". PupPatrol would obviously be "Guideline Guru".

 

The value of "old-timers" in caching is dependant not on their longevity but on their activity. Are you passionate about your role as a player? Do you want to be a part of the geocaching community or play on your own (which is okay too)?

 

I think sometimes people forget that geocaching isn't Groundspeak. Geocaching is us. It is what we choose to hide, what we choose to find, and what we choose to share.

 

Thanks for checking in, Breaktrack. I'm off to stalk your profile and plan my next adventure! :D

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Well, I started in January of 2006, so I consider myself in the "Middle School" of caching. This subset was around when you did not have paperless caching and (at least in my area) there were very few, if any, guard rail caches or skirt lifters.

 

Caching has been around for about 15 years, so to me, it roughly breaks down to this:

 

• Old School is roughly from 2000-2005

• Middle School is roughly from 2006-2010

• New School is roughly 2011-Present

 

Of course, this all really means nothing and proves I have too much time on my hands for even thinking about this. :D

 

In the end, I do think that the older players in this game have a lot to offer the newer ones. While some have gotten bitter about the evolution in the game, many have accepted it and embraced it. Their experience is still valuable.

Crud. I'm middle school. You know how much I hated middle school? :D

 

<snip>

So if you find yourself on the top of Pike's Peak, or on top of a volcano in New Mexico, standing in front of the soldiers maker in the Little Bighorn Battlefield, or a coastal fort in Florida, you might find one of my virtuals. But you will even more rarely find me out looking for a cache, lol.

Cool! Pike's Peak is on my must-hike-someday list. I'll look forward to your virtual!

 

 

I think everyone who posts respectfully (which I primarily define as in a non-shaming manner) in the forums adds a valuable contribution to the conversations. It ought to take some pretty egregious rule violations to get banned.

 

I think old-fashioned caches (which I define as including a hike, spectacular location, frequently an ammo can, sometimes a cool field puzzle) are indeed valuable to the game. They're rare, and some of them are the best of the best. Old timers are often the owners of these sorts of caches and hence are extremely valuable for that reason (if nothing else).

 

I think the most valuable contributor to the game is someone who is passionate about it and wants to see the game live long and prosper. Even if their definition of "prosper" differs from my own.

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It's been pretty drab around here the past few weeks. The value of old timers in caching and in these forums should not be debatable. The experience and knowledge they possess is invaluable. This is especially true now that this activity is being flooded by novices. We need to get some of this experience and knowledge back. We need to allow open and honest debate without the feeling that we are walking on egg shells (which is how I am feeling now). We need to get those who have been recently banned (Tozainamboku, 4Wheelinfool and Mr.Yuck) pardoned and be allowed to disperse their experience and knowledge again.

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It's been pretty drab around here the past few weeks. The value of old timers in caching and in these forums should not be debatable. The experience and knowledge they possess is invaluable. This is especially true now that this activity is being flooded by novices. We need to get some of this experience and knowledge back. We need to allow open and honest debate without the feeling that we are walking on egg shells (which is how I am feeling now). We need to get those who have been recently banned (Tozainamboku, 4Wheelinfool and Mr.Yuck) pardoned and be allowed to disperse their experience and knowledge again.

 

Thanks for that, Cat! I think that many of us old timers have been feeling the eggshells or thin ice around here. I also think that many of us that have been feeling that have no desire beyond improving things here. Unfortunately, improving things sometimes involves criticizing the way things are, and that can be seen by TPTB as being disrespectful, and reason for punitive actions. Catch 22.

 

PS: Thanks for naming the banned. That took conviction and courage.

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just checked Toz's profile and he was on the site on the first of the month, also nothing posted in his profile about being banned

 

You can be banned from posting in the forum, but not be banned from using the website. You can still find and hide caches.

 

 

B.

then it's not a total ban like I've seen happen to some

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just checked Toz's profile and he was on the site on the first of the month, also nothing posted in his profile about being banned

 

You can be banned from posting in the forum, but not be banned from using the website. You can still find and hide caches.

 

 

B.

then it's not a total ban like I've seen happen to some

 

Correct. The three bans being referred to in this thread are permanant forum bans, NOT overall geocaching bans.

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It's been pretty drab around here the past few weeks. The value of old timers in caching and in these forums should not be debatable. The experience and knowledge they possess is invaluable. This is especially true now that this activity is being flooded by novices. We need to get some of this experience and knowledge back. We need to allow open and honest debate without the feeling that we are walking on egg shells (which is how I am feeling now). We need to get those who have been recently banned (Tozainamboku, 4Wheelinfool and Mr.Yuck) pardoned and be allowed to disperse their experience and knowledge again.

 

Back in the day when I managed an outfit or two:

 

I always kept one or two dissenters on staff ... kept us on our toes ... kept us on the cutting edge.

 

Sign posted in my office:

 

"There is a better way to do it ... find it" attributed to T.A. Edison

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To the OP: What is the valueof old timers in caching?

 

* Long-time geocachers: They know how things used to be, they've watched how things have changed. They've seen what's worked and what hasn't, they can chime in with experience on those matters.

 

* High-find count geocachers: They've seen many things. Been many places. Met many people. They can bring a wide array of experiences and ideas.

 

* Older geocachers: Typically wise and knowledgeable, friendly, have much life experience, helpful.

 

* Long-time forum members: Probably been through many discussions, many debates, seen much drama. Maybe had a few run-ins with TPTB, but if they're still around, they've done well. Could be experience-hardened and helpful.

 

* Charter members: Own one of the few first, now grandfathered, account owners.

 

Mix & match any (well, most) of the above.

 

Any of the above, save 'older geocachers', may be young or old in age.

Any of the above, save 'long-time geocachers/forum members', may have only begun geocaching recently.

 

Any of the above may be bitter, a trouble-maker, resistant to change, or difficult to work with.

Any of the above may be friendly, helpful, kind, beneficial to the community, both locally and online.

 

In my mind, a thread such as this one is destined to set up barriers and walls, separating groups of people by stereotypes (like what I just did), pitting them against each other as 'more valuable', or 'less problematic'.

 

Nostalgia is one thing, but "old timers" (by whatever definition) aren't the only people who have value (by whatever definition) in the geocaching community.

 

That is certainly not to denigrated or de-value those who have been around for a long time, or who have done much for the game -- there is definitely value in appreciating and recognizing their contribution and ongoing support of the game. They bring much experience to the table.

 

But if an "old timer" gets banned from the forums, especially if not also from geocaching.com - I'm 100% absolutely confident it's not because they're an "old timer".

It's because they've done something to warrant it.

 

For the sake of the community - do not perpetuate that myth. It doesn't matter if they've even only got 1 warning per 1500 posts. If someone is deemed as needing a "time out" or ban, or kick, then there is a reason.

I do agree it's unfortunate. But not from the perspective of "they should have carte blanche because they've been here a long time, and they's good people"

 

Instead, look at how many "old timers" are still around, who are still gems in their communities. And be happy that they've helped to shape the game to the way it is now, so that more recent community members (of any age) can continue to carry the torch, even if the shape of the torch changes over the years :P

 

I don't consider myself a "old timer" by any of my above definitions. But I don't rate someone's value on how long they've been around. Someone's value to the hobby, as far as I'm concerned, is how they benefit the hobby and community - whether from long-time experience, or with young and fresh ideas; but mainly - are they helpful, friendly, positive, and kind?

 

THOSE are the people with value, those are the metrics.

Lots to offer the community, but packaged in a bitter, resentful, or difficult character? That's unfortunate. :sad:

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But if an "old timer" gets banned from the forums, especially if not also from geocaching.com - I'm 100% absolutely confident it's not because they're an "old timer".

It's because they've done something to warrant it.

Well, of COURSE there is a reason. The question is, is the reason legitimate or not. Anger or frustration of the moderators (if indeed that was the case... I'm not claiming that it was) is not a legitimate reason. Moderators taking things out of context or misunderstanding intent is not a legitimate reason. Becoming weary of someone repeatedly using some made-up acronym in almost every post is not a legitimate reason. You and a few others that have posted to this thread seem to feel that simply that someone was banned implies a legitimate reason. I would argue that you are using false logic.

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

I have used said acronym numerous times. I agree with said acronym, discussed said acronym, debated said acronym. But why was I never warned? Because I didn't press the issue, and whenever I used it it was in an applicable context, with explanation, not all the time, everywhere; and had I been asked to stop using it, I would have. ...but I wasn't asked in the first place.

 

The fact that this has become the topic of discussion verifies that the (underlying) intent of this thread was political, regarding the state of a few (forum) "old timers", rather than a sincere and exclusive intent to discuss the question "What is the value of old timers in caching?"

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

 

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit.

 

IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place.

 

Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve?

 

On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche.

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

I have used said acronym numerous times. I agree with said acronym, discussed said acronym, debated said acronym. But why was I never warned? Because I didn't press the issue, and whenever I used it it was in an applicable context, with explanation, not all the time, everywhere; and had I been asked to stop using it, I would have. ...but I wasn't asked in the first place.

 

The fact that this has become the topic of discussion verifies that the (underlying) intent of this thread was political, regarding the state of a few (forum) "old timers", rather than a sincere and exclusive intent to discuss the question "What is the value of old timers in caching?"

 

Where is it said in the forum guidelines that you may not make excessive use of a homemade acronym. I hated it, too, and the person we speak of could certainly be a windbag, but I always found him to be a respectful windbag.

 

Regarding your final paragraph... are you saying that your posts were to sincerely discuss the question of the value of old-timers, and were not purely political?

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

I have used said acronym numerous times. I agree with said acronym, discussed said acronym, debated said acronym. But why was I never warned? Because I didn't press the issue, and whenever I used it it was in an applicable context, with explanation, not all the time, everywhere; and had I been asked to stop using it, I would have. ...but I wasn't asked in the first place.

 

The fact that this has become the topic of discussion verifies that the (underlying) intent of this thread was political, regarding the state of a few (forum) "old timers", rather than a sincere and exclusive intent to discuss the question "What is the value of old timers in caching?"

 

You might want to ask the OP what her intent actually was before you interject your thoughts about her intent. I'll wager her intent was just as stated in her OP. I see nothing here that points to an underlying political motive.

 

So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

 

After re-reading the first post, quoted here for your convenience, you may want to consider retracting the comment directed at SolSeaker (the OP).

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are you saying that your posts were to sincerely discuss the question of the value of old-timers, and were not purely political?

I began by answering the question, explicitly, yes. Then I addressed the current state of the topic. If Sol seeker wants the thread to remain "on topic", and it was not ever supposed to be about the politics of those who have been banned, then she needs to speak up and attempt to steer it back on course. Otherwise, yes, the thread was not purely intended to discuss "What is the value of old timers in caching?"

 

You might want to ask the OP what her intent actually was before you interject your thoughts about her intent. I'll wager her intent was just as stated in her OP. I see nothing here that points to an underlying political motive.

Post #7 - knowschad first steered the topic openly towards forum politics.

 

Then Sol Seeker:

"The point is that those who have been around a while have a lot to offer the community. They have VALUE in being here. They have a lot to share.

...

We need people who have been around a while. The forums belong to everyone. Or at least they should. "

Seems forum politics (not just value in geocaching) are a touchy subject.

 

Then knowschad:

"There seems to be a little confusion in this thread, I think. Are you referring to Geocaching old-timers, or forum regulars when you talk about old-timers? I thought you were referring to old-time forum regulars."

 

Then the air was cleared in TriciaG's post #25, that there is a solid underlying issue regarding recent long-time forum users.

And numerous responses have agreed, quite pleasantly, that there is certainly value of old timers in geocaching. I don't think anyone would disagree.

 

So once again, if the thread is legitimately, and sincerely to discuss the value of old timers in geocaching, then sol seeker should make that clear. Either Knowschad misunderstood by post 7, and the thread has since already derailed into more angsty forum drama not related to the OP, or the thread has always had a passive-aggressive intent to rant about forum politics :P

 

ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Edited by thebruce0
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I think the thread is good as it is. It has raised some very important, and yes, political topics. Passive-aggressiveness generally occurs when direct confrontation is not allowed. I would prefer to call it passive-confrontation, actually. I, for one, am pleasantly surprised that the moderators have so far chosen to leave this thread open as a forum to air some badly needed discussions. Life isn't all Bambi and Butterflies. I wish it were, but sometimes the less fluffy parts of life need to be addressed. Sorry if this bothers you.

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

 

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit.

 

IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place.

 

Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve?

 

On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche.

 

This...very much. All +1, but +100 to the part I bolded....

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

 

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit.

 

IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place.

 

Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve?

 

On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche.

 

This...very much. All +1, but +100 to the part I bolded....

 

AGREE TO ALL

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are you saying that your posts were to sincerely discuss the question of the value of old-timers, and were not purely political?

I began by answering the question, explicitly, yes. Then I addressed the current state of the topic. If Sol seeker wants the thread to remain "on topic", and it was not ever supposed to be about the politics of those who have been banned, then she needs to speak up and attempt to steer it back on course. Otherwise, yes, the thread was not purely intended to discuss "What is the value of old timers in caching?"

 

You might want to ask the OP what her intent actually was before you interject your thoughts about her intent. I'll wager her intent was just as stated in her OP. I see nothing here that points to an underlying political motive.

Post #7 - knowschad first steered the topic openly towards forum politics.

 

Then Sol Seeker:

"The point is that those who have been around a while have a lot to offer the community. They have VALUE in being here. They have a lot to share.

...

We need people who have been around a while. The forums belong to everyone. Or at least they should. "

Seems forum politics (not just value in geocaching) are a touchy subject.

 

Then knowschad:

"There seems to be a little confusion in this thread, I think. Are you referring to Geocaching old-timers, or forum regulars when you talk about old-timers? I thought you were referring to old-time forum regulars."

 

Then the air was cleared in TriciaG's post #25, that there is a solid underlying issue regarding recent long-time forum users.

And numerous responses have agreed, quite pleasantly, that there is certainly value of old timers in geocaching. I don't think anyone would disagree.

 

So once again, if the thread is legitimately, and sincerely to discuss the value of old timers in geocaching, then sol seeker should make that clear. Either Knowschad misunderstood by post 7, and the thread has since already derailed into more angsty forum drama not related to the OP, or the thread has always had a passive-aggressive intent to rant about forum politics :P

 

ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

 

So your first few lines make it sound like Knowschad and I are the same person, or at least see the world the same, or think the same, or ARE thinking the same, or something.

I have no idea where you got that one.

 

I assure you that Knowschad and I are indeed separate individuals; I am not a dog.

 

As with every single other thread in these forums, or any forums for that matter, everyone can and does make of them what they will.

 

I made myself clear in the first post. I don't know why you decided everyone else was speaking for me in muddying my opening post.

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are you saying that your posts were to sincerely discuss the question of the value of old-timers, and were not purely political?

I began by answering the question, explicitly, yes. Then I addressed the current state of the topic. If Sol seeker wants the thread to remain "on topic", and it was not ever supposed to be about the politics of those who have been banned, then she needs to speak up and attempt to steer it back on course. Otherwise, yes, the thread was not purely intended to discuss "What is the value of old timers in caching?"

 

You might want to ask the OP what her intent actually was before you interject your thoughts about her intent. I'll wager her intent was just as stated in her OP. I see nothing here that points to an underlying political motive.

Post #7 - knowschad first steered the topic openly towards forum politics.

 

Then Sol Seeker:

"The point is that those who have been around a while have a lot to offer the community. They have VALUE in being here. They have a lot to share.

...

We need people who have been around a while. The forums belong to everyone. Or at least they should. "

Seems forum politics (not just value in geocaching) are a touchy subject.

 

Then knowschad:

"There seems to be a little confusion in this thread, I think. Are you referring to Geocaching old-timers, or forum regulars when you talk about old-timers? I thought you were referring to old-time forum regulars."

 

Then the air was cleared in TriciaG's post #25, that there is a solid underlying issue regarding recent long-time forum users.

And numerous responses have agreed, quite pleasantly, that there is certainly value of old timers in geocaching. I don't think anyone would disagree.

 

So once again, if the thread is legitimately, and sincerely to discuss the value of old timers in geocaching, then sol seeker should make that clear. Either Knowschad misunderstood by post 7, and the thread has since already derailed into more angsty forum drama not related to the OP, or the thread has always had a passive-aggressive intent to rant about forum politics :P

 

ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

 

 

And most threads in these forums anymore turn angsty, and judgmental over time, in case you hadn't noticed.

 

Please re-read your own post and think about if there's anything there that might be adding to that.

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

 

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit.

 

IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place.

 

Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve?

 

On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche.

 

This...very much. All +1, but +100 to the part I bolded....

 

AGREE TO ALL

 

So are these posts supporting blasting people who blast things?

 

Please keep it nice in my thread.

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

 

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit.

 

IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place.

 

Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve?

 

On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche.

 

This...very much. All +1, but +100 to the part I bolded....

 

AGREE TO ALL

 

Ditto.

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If a user were to make use of said made-up acronym excessively after being asked not to due its use in mocking and cynical contexts, and continue to use it despite being asked not to, then yes I can certainly see a reason why a moderator would put the hammer down.

 

I don't post as much here now as I used to, mainly because I find almost all the topics pretty uninteresting. But anyone who has been around for a while knows that I have some very strong opinions. I got a week's worth of time-out once a few years ago, and that was enough to make me re-evaluate how I interact on the forums. I have been pretty careful since to not step over the line, though I often enjoy pushing the limit.

 

IMO, the recent forum bans were completely justified. It's a temptation, as an old-timer, to be condescending toward newbies who don't immediately give appropriate weight to one's obviously correct opinions. A teeny bit of compassion and understanding can do wonders, though, and refraining from posting snark at what one may perceive as a stupid question goes a long way towards making the forums a nicer place.

 

Personally, I have grown very tired of all the detailed nitpicking over the rules and guidelines. What's so hard about just going out, finding the kinds of caches you like, and having a good time? Why is it so important for some people to try to prevent others from caching in ways they don't approve?

 

On the other hand, watching the forum fights over the rules has given me a lot of insight into human nature. There seems to be an innate desire for more and more detailed rules built into the human psyche.

 

This...very much. All +1, but +100 to the part I bolded....

 

AGREE TO ALL

 

So are these posts supporting blasting people who blast things?

 

Please keep it nice in my thread.

 

Actualy, I also +100 the bolded part. I'm just saying that banning people isn't the way to stop that behavior, because there will always be somebody new to come in and fill their roles. Consistent public moderation and example-setting by mods and forum regulars is the only way that the current culture is going to change. I've been around for roughly ten years. In that time, I've seen plenty of forum folk come and go, both by their own free will, and by bans... yet the culture remains. Why?

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So your first few lines make it sound like Knowschad and I are the same person, or at least see the world the same, or think the same, or ARE thinking the same, or something.

If you take them out of context, sure. I don't why you'd do that, as the rest of my comment made it clear.

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ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

 

I don't see how you can talk about the value of old timers in geocaching without talking about the value they bring to geocaching through the forums. Sure, there are a lot of old timers that bring a lot of value to the game and have never used the forums, but the forums are still one of the better ways for geocachers, old and new, to contribute the game.

 

 

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ETA: I'd love if this thread were just to talk about old timers (of all types) in geocaching and their value and merit! Share some examples, help promote community and loving and caring and fun and helpfulness! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

 

I don't see how you can talk about the value of old timers in geocaching without talking about the value they bring to geocaching through the forums. Sure, there are a lot of old timers that bring a lot of value to the game and have never used the forums, but the forums are still one of the better ways for geocachers, old and new, to contribute the game.

I certainly agree. I'm most certainly not against discussing the merits and value of old/long-timers in any aspect of geocaching, whether it's community or forums. The point was whether this thread was to do that, sincerely, or somehow spawned from political drama about certain individuals who happen to be long-timers who were banned for whatever reason.

 

One is positive, happy, cheerful, even joyful! :laughing:

One, not so much.

 

How about this: Does everyone want to make a pact, and from this point on only discuss "the value of old timers (by whatever definition) in geocaching (whatever aspect)" instead of forum politics? Yay? Nay?

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How about this: Does everyone want to make a pact, and from this point on only discuss "the value of old timers (by whatever definition) in geocaching (whatever aspect)" instead of forum politics? Yay? Nay?

It would be good to return to the topic as framed in the initial post. The side discussion about banned posters was also the subject of a topic which has since been closed. As in that closed thread, discussion of specific forum discipline cases is ultimately unproductive as the moderating team does not discuss the circumstances of individual actions, leaving the moderating team wide open to speculative half-truths.

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+1

 

My initial post addressed the OP as phrased. I do hope the game continues to evolve, while also being a hobby that is attractive to old/long-timers. Things change, but man can they inspire. I'm continually impressed by the (age)old-timers in my area who are out caching most every single day, just for getting out there, and some of the adventures they go on. Them people's got spunk! :) I suppose retirement means you've got a lot of time to spare for a hobby like that, heh.

Edited by thebruce0
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So are these posts supporting blasting people who blast things?

 

Please keep it nice in my thread.

Unless you want to blast TPTB.

 

No. I do not now, nor have I ever, supported blasting anyone, including the powers that be.

 

If you noticed, I'm the one who applauded them for the new search engine. It may not be perfect, but I'm SSSOOOOO happy they did it. I see it as a major improvement.

 

I don't think blasting people helps anymore than banning people. I don't think people learn either of those ways. There are better ways to teach people to behave well.

 

(Although I admit some WANT to behave poorly. But the only way to weed those out it to have a conversation with them before you ban them)

 

I said "keep it nice in my thread" and I meant nice toward EVERYONE.

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How about this: Does everyone want to make a pact, and from this point on only discuss "the value of old timers (by whatever definition) in geocaching (whatever aspect)" instead of forum politics? Yay? Nay?

It would be good to return to the topic as framed in the initial post. The side discussion about banned posters was also the subject of a topic which has since been closed. As in that closed thread, discussion of specific forum discipline cases is ultimately unproductive as the moderating team does not discuss the circumstances of individual actions, leaving the moderating team wide open to speculative half-truths.

 

Thank you.

 

We will now return to our previously scheduled discussion.

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If I count as an old timer (and that's certainly debatable, as we started in March 2007 -- firmly in the middle of "middle school," as above), I'm not as value added as I used to be, I suppose. I used to contribute to the local communities by hiding the sort of cache I wanted to find. But apart from having an earthcache published on a feature I saw during our move from Oklahoma to Texas, I've not done that in our new town. Nor have I hosted any events, as I used to do. And I'm rarely on the forums anymore. Job is taking too much energy during the week, and weekends are spent helping give the wife a break from the toddler she's been chasing around all week while I've been at work. Not much time for me, and when I get it, I'm more prone to go hunt caches.

 

Since everything we're doing at work is gearing up to a month long training exercise, there's the hope that things will calm down a bit once that's done. Certainly as the toddler develops from "small person I must watch carefully" to someone I can trust to be a tunnel rat/cache gofer, we'll be able to get out in the field a bit more again.

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I think I qualify as an old timer. I've been geocaching since 2002. I don't know what my value is to geocaching because that is so subjective. I know I'm opinionated and have ticked a few people off, including a moderator in this forum. I "only" have 2200 finds, but I've completed the original fizzy challenge, have over 400 favorites on my placed caches, and have spread the word about geocaching through my books. I think I've contributed quite a bit, but I'm sure there are some out there who'd just as soon I go away permanently.

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A better question might be: as an oldtimer do you feel valued?

Not particularly... at least not by the powers that be.

Agree.

 

I've been at this game since 04, so I figure I'm and Oldtimer. Especially in my own area. There are only a few that have been playing longer than me around here.

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Began playing in 2002, and still enjoy it immensely to this day. I think the old timers simply have a little bit of knowledge from the beginning basics that the newbies don't have, or may not even pickup playing today. I do know one thing-we used to hide, and find, real sized metal ammo cans, and real decon containers. How many newbies can say that?

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Began playing in 2002, and still enjoy it immensely to this day. I think the old timers simply have a little bit of knowledge from the beginning basics that the newbies don't have, or may not even pickup playing today. I do know one thing-we used to hide, and find, real sized metal ammo cans, and real decon containers. How many newbies can say that?

 

As a (somewhat) old-timer, I have the experience to say that ammo cans used to cost around $8 when I began. Now you're lucky to find them at all, but if you do, you will be paying at least $20. :rolleyes:

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