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What is the value of old timers in caching?


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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

 

IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

Edited by Uncle Alaska
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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course <b>newbies</b> are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. <b>But this one is just about<u> those of us</u> who have been around a while.</b>

 

IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

 

Anyone who considers themselves an old timer counts. That can be someone with 1000 cache finds or 40,000 cache finds. It may be ten years they've been in the game, or two years.

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I've been doing this for 4 1/2 years with over 5000 and I count myself as a newbie. I've been fortunate enough to meet some charter members and I certainly consider them old timers :blink: although they might disagree about the "old" part! They have some great stories about cachers and caches no longer in the game but mentioned in some older logs I see occasionally, some of the hilarious escapades they've managed to get into, and what geocaching used to be like in its early days.

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I've been doing this for 4 1/2 years with over 5000 and I count myself as a newbie. ...

No, you're too modest - several years experience and several thousand finds equals a veteran. Those who were here since near the beginning are old-timers, or whatever other title they prefer.

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OK. Veteran works for me! I actually am a veteran, in the other meaning of the word so this is even better! I still feel like a newbie because my DNF ratio is still as high as when I started and it really doesn't matter what D/T type of cache it is. I've got 1/1 DNFs and 5/5 DNFs. I thought, when I first started, that the more caches I found, the more likely I was to make a find at a higher % rate when I had a few thousand under the belt. Nope. Still at a roughly 90% success rate. I'll take it. I've come to accept that I can't find everything.

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IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

Even if you were one of the inventors of GPS technology, if you haven't geocached before, you are a newbie to geocaching. Knowledge of how to use the GPS is only one part of being a geocacher (you know that, of course).

 

But this isn't about who is a newbie and who is an old timer. This is about Groundspeak deciding that they would be better without the presence of several regular posters here and giving them lifelong forum bans. And from the best of our knowledge, the motives have little or nothing to do with recent posts that they've made, having more to do with the number of previous warnings or time-outs, without equally looking at the number of forum posts overall.

 

Forum regulars are, in a large way, another aspect of the volunteer culture that helps Groundspeak run with a relatively low overhead. I think that most are here with the best intentions. But occasionally personalities clash, opinions get expressed, something harmless gets misinterpreted, etc and the member who has spent countless hours here trying to help finds themselves with a warning about their behavior, or perhaps even given a "timeout" (yeah, sounds pretty childish to me, too. Go stand in your corner and think about what you have done and don't come out until I call you)

 

The more a forum volunteer posts, the more likely it is that one of those posts is going to hit somebody wrong and trigger a disciplinary action against them.

 

I queried two posters that I know. One has been banned, one has not, but has received a few warnings/timeouts.

 

One that has been recently banned made 10,134 posts to the forums (since when, I don't know when he started posting). They said he had 7 warnings. That is one warning (or timeout) for every 1,447 posts!

 

Another has made 3,121 posts with approximately 4 disciplinary actions, giving one warning (or timeout) for every 803 posts! This person has not (yet, at least) been banned.

 

I happen to know that the letter that was sent to the banned forum volunteer mentioned above stated that "the average forum poster does not have one warning or timeout". Fair enough: but now, how many posts does the average forum poster have? Does the average poster have 1,447 posts yet? I doubt it.

 

I went on a voluntary hiatus from these forums for a couple of years, only recently returning, very gingerly. I left because several timeouts and warnings that totally blindsided me had me walking on eggshells. I received extreme support from other posters here when I left... something that I still feel very blessed for. Groundspeak, your regulars are your volunteers, not your employees. Most of us have been paid members for years, supporting Groundspeak not only with our dollar, but with hidden geocaches and generally helpful forum work. Thank us and help us, don't "fire" us!

 

I have more to say but I had better post this before the thread goes up in a puff of pink smoke.

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Dinosaur here*. I have been caching nearly 6 years and I have over 13,000 finds. I host and attend events as often as possible. I hide caches in the parks around my house. I cache with friends whenever possible but I do enjoy a nice quiet hike in the woods with my dog. I have literally told hundreds (if not thousands) of people about Geocaching as a volunteer field guide for the MN Outdoor Youth Expo. Not everyone that visited my booth became an active Geocacher but there are quite a few that can trace their roots back to talking to me during those events. I am active on the MN, WI and CO Facebook pages. I have made a lot of friends and a few very good friends through caching. It's become a passion...even an addiction.

 

I have spent thousands of dollars over the years to go Geocaching. I've taken trips across the country just to cache. Gas, plane tickets, hotels, car rentals, food, campsites, gear, medical bills, etc... It adds up quickly but I wouldn't trade the experiences I've had for anything. Well...almost anything.

 

I also used to be somewhat active here on these forums but I left in disgust a little over 2 years ago. I, too, have only recently returned.

 

We old timers bring something to caching that just cannot be quantified on a spreadsheet or algorithm or quarterly report. By and large we are the ones that hide the caches, we are the ones that host events and we are the ones that will still be here next week, next month and next year. We are the ones that made this hobby what it is today.

 

We are also human so we are not perfect. We sometimes do and say things that might be questionable. Or sometimes our words get in our way of what we are attempting to convey. I'm not trying to cover for those that have gotten a warning, a timeout or worse. I'm also not here to knock Groundspeak, its employees or its volunteer network.

 

Knowschad is right and it doesn't even pain me to say it. The forum regulars ARE your volunteers just as much as mods and the reviewers. We might not be recognized as such but it's true nonetheless. We are all in this together.

 

 

*Yes, at the tender age of 38 I consider myself a dinosaur mostly because I rarely use my phone to cache. I like my dedicated GPSr.

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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

 

IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

 

Not sure where you get your classifications on what is and what isn't a newbie. We have been caching since 04. We still use a GPS and our number of finds is not important. We enjoy it for what it is. Who is "us"?

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IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

Even if you were one of the inventors of GPS technology, if you haven't geocached before, you are a newbie to geocaching. Knowledge of how to use the GPS is only one part of being a geocacher (you know that, of course).

 

But this isn't about who is a newbie and who is an old timer. This is about Groundspeak deciding that they would be better without the presence of several regular posters here and giving them lifelong forum bans. And from the best of our knowledge, the motives have little or nothing to do with recent posts that they've made, having more to do with the number of previous warnings or time-outs, without equally looking at the number of forum posts overall.

 

Forum regulars are, in a large way, another aspect of the volunteer culture that helps Groundspeak run with a relatively low overhead. I think that most are here with the best intentions. But occasionally personalities clash, opinions get expressed, something harmless gets misinterpreted, etc and the member who has spent countless hours here trying to help finds themselves with a warning about their behavior, or perhaps even given a "timeout" (yeah, sounds pretty childish to me, too. Go stand in your corner and think about what you have done and don't come out until I call you)

 

The more a forum volunteer posts, the more likely it is that one of those posts is going to hit somebody wrong and trigger a disciplinary action against them.

 

I queried two posters that I know. One has been banned, one has not, but has received a few warnings/timeouts.

 

One that has been recently banned made 10,134 posts to the forums (since when, I don't know when he started posting). They said he had 7 warnings. That is one warning (or timeout) for every 1,447 posts!

 

Another has made 3,121 posts with approximately 4 disciplinary actions, giving one warning (or timeout) for every 803 posts! This person has not (yet, at least) been banned.

 

I happen to know that the letter that was sent to the banned forum volunteer mentioned above stated that "the average forum poster does not have one warning or timeout". Fair enough: but now, how many posts does the average forum poster have? Does the average poster have 1,447 posts yet? I doubt it.

 

I went on a voluntary hiatus from these forums for a couple of years, only recently returning, very gingerly. I left because several timeouts and warnings that totally blindsided me had me walking on eggshells. I received extreme support from other posters here when I left... something that I still feel very blessed for. Groundspeak, your regulars are your volunteers, not your employees. Most of us have been paid members for years, supporting Groundspeak not only with our dollar, but with hidden geocaches and generally helpful forum work. Thank us and help us, don't "fire" us!

 

I have more to say but I had better post this before the thread goes up in a puff of pink smoke.

I guess I'm also a newbie as I've only been here for about six years and only have about 650 finds. As you can tell by my post count I almost never post in the regular forums (or fora) but have made several posts in the Off Topic forum. The reason I don't post in the regular ones is because it seems to me that there are a lot of members who take pleasure in demeaning said newbies and that's just not what I enjoy. I have enjoyed the knowledge that I've learned from several of the "old timers" but now it looks like at least a few and maybe more of them have been banned. That strikes me as unfortunate.

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Seems to me that this thread took a very sharp and sudden turn into rage-politics. That is undoubtedly on the list of things that turn people away from a hobby. There was an RPG I played for almost ten years that eventually lost all pleasure largely because of forums, and even in the short time I've been poking around these forums, I've already considered staying off of them because of the dramatics. Luckily that is the minority and there are a lot of very friendly and helpful posters here, too - not to mention the sheer entertainment! :)

 

To go with what the OP appears to be about:

 

I've been into the hobby for a year and a half. I have only had a proper handheld GPS for about three months and have already found more caches in those three months than I did in the whole of the previous year and change I was caching using an auto GPS. I have cached solo from the get-go; however, at events, on forums, etc. I've found the 'oldtimers' or 'veterans' or what have you to be some of the most eager to share hobbyists I've ever encountered. I'm pretty shy in person, so it meant a lot to me that, at the very first event I ever attended, when hitting fifty was my big dream goal, I was barraged with invites from more seasoned cachers who wanted to share their wisdom and experience, and show me some of their favorite caches. I go to events as much as possible now and even though I still tend to cache solo, I love to sit and listen to the stories, or mention a cache I've been struggling with and get tips. If it weren't for the old-timers, so many of the newer members might have just given up in frustration. Here on the forums, I've found myself asking a lot of questions, and have always received a pretty prompt and helpful answer from those who have been around longer. That sort of example makes me look forward to the day I no longer feel like a noob and I can help someone else get into the hobby.

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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

 

IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

 

Not sure where you get your classifications on what is and what isn't a newbie. We have been caching since 04. We still use a GPS and our number of finds is not important. We enjoy it for what it is. Who is "us"?

 

I think people can call themselves whatever they like, and whatever they feel they are.

 

However, it does seem important to people here to have a definition, so I will say, I consider someone a "newbie" if they've been caching under a year with less than 300 finds.

 

Now if you ask 100 cachers you will get 100 answers to that question. There is no real definition. I don't want titles to get in the way of the question here.

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It's not only how long those who have cached or how many. Its how they cache. Have they found different types or only easy trads? Differenct types of containers or just film canisters and ammo cans?

I think I mentioned this story before when once some "old timer" cachers tried to find a cache of mine and DNFd it two times. It was rated 2 difficulty. I didn't respond because lots of cachers DNF it because it was somewhat evil.

Later I get an NA request from them and I went and checked the cache and it was fine. I didn't even have to get out of my car to see it. I sent them a message suggesting they try to get more experience. :rolleyes:

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Yeah, that's why I was trying to avoid the question of who is an old timer and who is not. We don't want anyone to feel insulted or left out. Anyone can be an old timer or a newcomer. I don't think it matters, and certainly not for this thread.

 

The point is that those who have been around a while have a lot to offer the community. They have VALUE in being here. They have a lot to share.

 

I love learning from the experience of others. That's one of the most fun parts of going to events. It's great to talk to people and hear the best caches to find and the latest tools or whatever.

 

People who have been playing the game for a while used to be all over these forums answering questions the rest of us didn't know. I've learned so much from these forums. when I was a really new cacher I was asked once how I had been caching for such a short time yet knew so much about geocaching. It was because I hung out on the forums and learned. Because of all I learned I gave a geocaching class (free) and turned a lot of people onto all the great stuff I learned in here.

 

 

We need people who have been around a while. The forums belong to everyone. Or at least they should.

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Dinosaur here*. I have been caching nearly 6 years and I have over 13,000 finds. I host and attend events as often as possible. I hide caches in the parks around my house. I cache with friends whenever possible but I do enjoy a nice quiet hike in the woods with my dog. I have literally told hundreds (if not thousands) of people about Geocaching as a volunteer field guide for the MN Outdoor Youth Expo. Not everyone that visited my booth became an active Geocacher but there are quite a few that can trace their roots back to talking to me during those events. I am active on the MN, WI and CO Facebook pages. I have made a lot of friends and a few very good friends through caching. It's become a passion...even an addiction.

 

I have spent thousands of dollars over the years to go Geocaching. I've taken trips across the country just to cache. Gas, plane tickets, hotels, car rentals, food, campsites, gear, medical bills, etc... It adds up quickly but I wouldn't trade the experiences I've had for anything. Well...almost anything.

 

I also used to be somewhat active here on these forums but I left in disgust a little over 2 years ago. I, too, have only recently returned.

 

We old timers bring something to caching that just cannot be quantified on a spreadsheet or algorithm or quarterly report. By and large we are the ones that hide the caches, we are the ones that host events and we are the ones that will still be here next week, next month and next year. We are the ones that made this hobby what it is today.

 

We are also human so we are not perfect. We sometimes do and say things that might be questionable. Or sometimes our words get in our way of what we are attempting to convey. I'm not trying to cover for those that have gotten a warning, a timeout or worse. I'm also not here to knock Groundspeak, its employees or its volunteer network.

 

Knowschad is right and it doesn't even pain me to say it. The forum regulars ARE your volunteers just as much as mods and the reviewers. We might not be recognized as such but it's true nonetheless. We are all in this together.

 

 

*Yes, at the tender age of 38 I consider myself a dinosaur mostly because I rarely use my phone to cache. I like my dedicated GPSr.

Very well written TD!

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I would consider geocaching "old timers" those caching since before smartphone apps - so started geocaching 2008 or earlier, regardless of their age.

 

Many of those folks are a valuable part of their geocommunity. They also come from a time when there were mostly ammo cans and no power trails - more quality, less quantity. They tend to defend those ideals and are more likely to place caches that try to meet them.

 

On the other hand, old timers are more likely to be old and wearing out. They also are more likely to be grumpy "back in my day..." types who get annoyed at any changes.

 

So many of the difficult regular forum posters are probably old timers, but so are most of my favorite COs.

 

(I would consider myself a veteran - 5 years, 3800 finds - but not an old timer. And I don't think I have ever received a moderator warning on the forums.)

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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

 

IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

 

Not sure where you get your classifications on what is and what isn't a newbie. We have been caching since 04. We still use a GPS and our number of finds is not important. We enjoy it for what it is. Who is "us"?

 

I think people can call themselves whatever they like, and whatever they feel they are.

 

However, it does seem important to people here to have a definition, so I will say, I consider someone a "newbie" if they've been caching under a year with less than 300 finds.

 

Now if you ask 100 cachers you will get 100 answers to that question. There is no real definition. I don't want titles to get in the way of the question here.

 

There seems to be a little confusion in this thread, I think. Are you referring to Geocaching old-timers, or forum regulars when you talk about old-timers? I thought you were referring to old-time forum regulars.

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Every once in a while, I come to the forums and read. I wanted to become a poster here when I was a newbie (ya know like 25 finds), but I saw a lot of posts about the horrors of phone cachers, so I figured I would not be very welcome here. I acquired a old GPSr, but it broke, so I am back to phone caching. And then, every time I come here, there are posts about people getting banned. If you want to be more beneficial, there needs to be less drama.

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The old timers bring their experience and usually have a few really good stories. I am amazed how some of them remember exactly where a cache was that they found 4 or 5 years ago. Other than that it doesn't really matter how long a person has been doing this or how many finds he/she has or if he/she uses a phone, GPS, or divining rod. What matters is that people maintain their caches, CITO when possible, help others out with the game, and have fun.

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Well, I started in January of 2006, so I consider myself in the "Middle School" of caching. This subset was around when you did not have paperless caching and (at least in my area) there were very few, if any, guard rail caches or skirt lifters.

 

Caching has been around for about 15 years, so to me, it roughly breaks down to this:

 

• Old School is roughly from 2000-2005

• Middle School is roughly from 2006-2010

• New School is roughly 2011-Present

 

Of course, this all really means nothing and proves I have too much time on my hands for even thinking about this. :D

 

In the end, I do think that the older players in this game have a lot to offer the newer ones. While some have gotten bitter about the evolution in the game, many have accepted it and embraced it. Their experience is still valuable.

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Relatively speaking I don't consider myself to be an "old-timer" but I do think that I have a lot of experience and don't think that experience can only be measured in number of finds. Again, relatively speaking, I think I understand how the site works as well as anyone (excluding those that are actually developing the site), the guidelines, the various ways the game is played and can bring a more global perspective of the game than those the seem to see the game based on it's played in their local area.

 

As I see it, there is a great amount of value that comes from experience but that experience is worthless if it isn't shared. Based on recently developments in the forums there may be a lot more reluctance for those with experience to share it with others.

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I like the drama. Some of the best topics have been filled with drama and are very enjoyable to read. :)

I admit that I love the drama too, especially now that I understand some of what it's about, but here, on these forums, you represent the geocaching community worldwide. I'm sure there are better places for all the complaining.

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Seems to me that this thread took a very sharp and sudden turn into rage-politics.

Actually, the OP started from the "rage-politics" angle, and has confirmed it a couple posts below yours. He posted a similar post in a thread that had turned from some other topic to discussing banned members before posting this thread: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330334&view=findpost&p=5484385

 

So, no - there was no turn.

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Long-time cachers are the foundation of the game. They are the ones who have stayed around throughout the various changes through the years. They are the reason the game is available to the new players. Are they valuable? Absolutely. Are they always appreciated? No, because they are people and have personalities that may not mesh with others.

As to the forum regulars who are being booted, I see that as a tremendous loss to the community. Their wealth of knowledge and input has immeasurable value to cachers, both new and old. It surprises me that some helpful (and sometimes long-winded) forum regulars are now gone, and a few others are still here, adding snippy non-sequiturs and making discussions into arguments.

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Seems to me that this thread took a very sharp and sudden turn into rage-politics.

Actually, the OP started from the "rage-politics" angle, and has confirmed it a couple posts below yours. He posted a similar post in a thread that had turned from some other topic to discussing banned members before posting this thread: http://forums.Ground...dpost&p=5484385

 

So, no - there was no turn.

 

I don't see where either of you get rage politics out of that. (BTW, the OP is a woman). I see a rather calm, considered opening post.

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So some friends and I were discussing the value of long-time geocachers to the game.

 

As I see it, they spread the word about geocaching better than anyone or anything. They help new cachers get into the game and teach them about the game.

 

I know for myself, if I cache with newbies I always encourage them to sign up to get a paid membership to geocaching.com, which is a benefit to geocaching.com as a business, but it also helps newcomers with pocket queries, notifications and other benefits of a paid membership.

 

Old timers put on events (most of the events around here are put on by old timers).

 

At events, excitement and interest in geocaching spreads. I spent time with a newbie at a recent event. It was fun to share the joy of caching. The event was chock full of mainly old timers, but there were newbies there checking out the game.

 

I could go on with this list, and I'll add some more later, but I want to give others a chance to answer this question.

 

Of course newbies are very important to this game, we all know that, and you can start that thread. But this one is just about those of us who have been around a while.

 

IMHO you are throwing around very relative and subjective terms...I have been using portable GPS units since 1997, long before I started geocaching in 2001...I might consider you a "newbie"... Who is "us" as you say? :unsure:

 

Not sure where you get your classifications on what is and what isn't a newbie. We have been caching since 04. We still use a GPS and our number of finds is not important. We enjoy it for what it is. Who is "us"?

 

We is us....all others are new.

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I admit that I love the drama too, especially now that I understand some of what it's about, but here, on these forums, you represent the geocaching community worldwide. I'm sure there are better places for all the complaining.

 

I'm not sure there is a better place to discuss varying viewpoints But if disagreement is not welcomed, then perhaps it is time to close the forums and use a format like Facebook where you can have announcements only.

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Dinosaur here*.

 

If you're a dinosaur at 6 years than I must be an ammonite crawling out of the sea or something at 11 years.

 

I agree in principle that old timers bring wisdom to the game and at times hold it together. But I disagree that ALL regulars here in the forums are good for the forums. Particularly the ones that sit here day after day, page after page, and do nothing but respond to posts rather an actually going out to geocache. I come and go periodically here in the forums because I despise the nitpicking, pouncing, holier than thou attitudes that some of the regulars espouse. If they geocached as much as they posted, Alamogal might be given a run for his money.

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I think the biggest asset old-timers bring is perspective.

 

I really enjoy learning from those who came before me who saw caching grow from humble beginnings to a wide-open hobby where things like Locationless, Virtuals, Webcams and Events were welcome. They've also seen how the wide open days of experimentation caused problems and things had to be reigned back in. It's why old-timers sometimes come across as curmudgeonly -- they know that really new cool idea is just a new variant on something that was already tried and failed.

 

I certainly consider myself an old-timer, especially in our local area. Many of the cachers who were active when I started have left the hobby. The most involved cachers in our area tend to be from the newer generations. They are the ones out hiding power trails and geoart, organizing events, creating challenge caches, craving Souvenirs, and being active on the non-Groundspeak forums/social media sites. Some of the locals who came before me still find a ton of caches, but you don't see them putting out many hides or even attending many events.

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Seems to me that this thread took a very sharp and sudden turn into rage-politics.

Actually, the OP started from the "rage-politics" angle, and has confirmed it a couple posts below yours. He posted a similar post in a thread that had turned from some other topic to discussing banned members before posting this thread: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=330334&view=findpost&p=5484385

 

So, no - there was no turn.

 

 

So do you assume that every time someone starts a new thread it's about the latest threads they've posted in? I've also posted about flashlights and tent hammocks recently. Perhaps this thread is really about that.

 

There is no rage and there is no politics in my opening post. I am not a rageful person; I am not an angry person. I'm really pretty darn nice if you get to know me.

 

I must say however, that the responses I've gotten in this thread have ranged from argument, to anger, to confusion to some really great responses to my question. It's amazing what people are reading into what I thought was a simple question.

 

I appreciate all the simple responses to my simple question. There have been some great responses here.

 

The rest I must say, have me baffled.

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Dinosaur here*.

 

If you're a dinosaur at 6 years than I must be an ammonite crawling out of the sea or something at 11 years.

 

I agree in principle that old timers bring wisdom to the game and at times hold it together. But I disagree that ALL regulars here in the forums are good for the forums. Particularly the ones that sit here day after day, page after page, and do nothing but respond to posts rather an actually going out to geocache. I come and go periodically here in the forums because I despise the nitpicking, pouncing, holier than thou attitudes that some of the regulars espouse. If they geocached as much as they posted, Alamogal might be given a run for his money.

 

 

I welcome responses even from ammonites in this thread, no matter where you crawl out of.

 

Yes, there have been some "pouncing" and very judgmental responses here.

 

You know one cool thing about these forums is that geocachers can come here to post instead of geocaching when the snow is too deep, when it is raining too hard, when it is dark and they don't like caching in the dark. It is also good for disabled cachers who have a limited number of caches they can find and aren't able to cache as much as they are able to sit at their computer. It's also good for moments between work for some who sit at a desk.

 

The forums have historically been a good place to connect with geocaching when one can't get out and geocache. It's great people are so involved in caching they like to connect with others about it when they can't cache every second of the day.

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You know one cool thing about these forums is that geocachers can come here to post instead of geocaching when the snow is too deep, when it is raining too hard, when it is dark and they don't like caching in the dark. It is also good for disabled cachers who have a limited number of caches they can find and aren't able to cache as much as they are able to sit at their computer. It's also good for moments between work for some who sit at a desk.

 

I would not disagree with most of what you say here. My "general" statement was more along the lines of those that I can be guaranteed to find here on ANY random or arbitrary day. Perhaps we should limit forum post count to not exceed find count? << that was a joke..

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You know one cool thing about these forums is that geocachers can come here to post instead of geocaching when the snow is too deep, when it is raining too hard, when it is dark and they don't like caching in the dark. It is also good for disabled cachers who have a limited number of caches they can find and aren't able to cache as much as they are able to sit at their computer. It's also good for moments between work for some who sit at a desk.

 

I would not disagree with most of what you say here. My "general" statement was more along the lines of those that I can be guaranteed to find here on ANY random or arbitrary day. Perhaps we should limit forum post count to not exceed find count? << that was a joke..

 

It's actually true that I was trying to keep my forum count no higher than my find count for a long time.

 

Now I'm not on the forums as much. There has always been grumpy people on the forums, but it seems to have escalated in recent times.

 

I always think when helpers in a store are unfriendly that it comes down from the top.

 

I've worked at places where that is very true. Generally people treated well in a business treat others well.

 

In forums I think the same thing can happen. I think moderators can create a harsh atmosphere by treating people harshly. I don't see it working. Things seem to have gotten worse in here.

 

So I haven't been on the forums as much, and my forum count has dropped way below my find count. Does this mean I have work to do? :)

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I think the old timers, of which I consider myself to be among that group--going back to 2002, nurtured the game locally so it could grow and expand to what it is today. During the period of 2004 to 2008 I personally organized over 100 group hikes (caching hikes, although we could not classify them as events) over 1000 people participated. I would often pre hike locations to make sure that the location was suitable and hide a cache or two ahead of the hike for people to find. . Some of those early participants became fast friends and maintain close and loving relationships with each other to this date. A few of them have gone on to become Catskill 3500 and Adirondack 46rs. It was the nurturing of the game. I sometimes wax nostalgic for those fun hikes and outings, having never evolved into a numbers cacher. Some, but not many still play the game.

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I think the old timers, of which I consider myself to be among that group--going back to 2002, nurtured the game locally so it could grow and expand to what it is today. During the period of 2004 to 2008 I personally organized over 100 group hikes (caching hikes, although we could not classify them as events) over 1000 people participated. I would often pre hike locations to make sure that the location was suitable and hide a cache or two ahead of the hike for people to find. . Some of those early participants became fast friends and maintain close and loving relationships with each other to this date. A few of them have gone on to become Catskill 3500 and Adirondack 46rs. It was the nurturing of the game. I sometimes wax nostalgic for those fun hikes and outings, having never evolved into a numbers cacher. Some, but not many still play the game.

 

 

Thanks for your valuable contribution to the community. :)

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I remember when I started (or back in the day :rolleyes: ) when I knew almost all the players in my area and introduced the game to several friends. Being very active outdoors it was the perfect match for me to discover new places to hike to. Our little local group would help each other with maintenance and would occasionally run into each other as there were very few caches in the area and we would be excited when a new cache would pop up in the area. 90 percent of the caches were hidden in ammo cans and the rest were usually Tupperware containers. When we would log a cache back then we tended to be honest about what we thought of the placement and container with the intent of making the game and hides better. If I were to find nearby caches today and be honest in my logs, I would not be very well liked and probably be banned from the game as being perceive as rude. To me the game was about taking me to new interesting places or learning something new about a location. To my friends and myself it was never about numbers. I recently placed a new cache which involves a moderate hike and it has sat there for 4 weeks with no visits. The location is like an island surrounded by an ocean of unimaginative (for the most part) geocaches. What a shame as the cache sits at a locally interesting place with breathtaking views (there was a cache nearby about ½ mile away that I logged that was wonderful and gave me hope). This presents a good argument it’s all about numbers. We need us old-timers who remember what it was like to keep a little bit of the past alive in the game. I’ll continue to play but plan to be much more selective in my finds and plan to scope out some new locations for possible cache placements with the intent of placing some additional quality caches in our area.

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You know one cool thing about these forums is that geocachers can come here to post instead of geocaching when the snow is too deep, when it is raining too hard, when it is dark and they don't like caching in the dark. It is also good for disabled cachers who have a limited number of caches they can find and aren't able to cache as much as they are able to sit at their computer. It's also good for moments between work for some who sit at a desk.

 

I would not disagree with most of what you say here. My "general" statement was more along the lines of those that I can be guaranteed to find here on ANY random or arbitrary day. Perhaps we should limit forum post count to not exceed find count? << that was a joke..

 

You talking about me, Bart? :unsure::P

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A better question might be: as an oldtimer do you feel valued?

Not particularly... at least not by the powers that be.

 

In some ways, yes I do. In many ways: Not particularly.

Yes, I'm a curmudgeonly old-timer dolphin. Some changes are great! Some changes I can live with. Some leave me completely lost. Oh, well. My opinion on such things do not matter. I'm too old-fashioned.

I do have some kind reception from the geocaching community. ("Oh, you're that evil dolphin with those evil mystery caches!") But most of my caches (even the micros) will take you to pretty, or interesting places.

Valued by some? Yes. TPTB? Nope. I'm not a geeky cell phone cacher.

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You know one cool thing about these forums is that geocachers can come here to post instead of geocaching when the snow is too deep, when it is raining too hard, when it is dark and they don't like caching in the dark. It is also good for disabled cachers who have a limited number of caches they can find and aren't able to cache as much as they are able to sit at their computer. It's also good for moments between work for some who sit at a desk.

 

The forums have historically been a good place to connect with geocaching when one can't get out and geocache. It's great people are so involved in caching they like to connect with others about it when they can't cache every second of the day.

Agreed. Back when I was in a position to attend GeoWoodstock, I really enjoyed meeting other cachers whom I only knew from the forums. It was like sitting down to chat with old friends, even if I sometimes disagreed with their caching philosophies.

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A better question might be: as an oldtimer do you feel valued?

Not particularly... at least not by the powers that be.

 

Hey Dog With Glasses ... I iz glad to see you back ... Soooooooooo, for this old fossil you have value.

 

Thanks! I should add that I feel greatly appreciated by my local geocaching folks and by most of the volunteer forum regulars!! I have had a number of similar "welcome back" messages. Feels good. But still feels like walking on eggshells, too.

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It's not only how long those who have cached or how many. Its how they cache. Have they found different types or only easy trads? Differenct types of containers or just film canisters and ammo cans?

 

I regard myself as old timer, but not as an experienced well rounded cacher and I have no interest into turning into the latter. I started geocaching in 2002 and there are many cachers who cache less than 2 years who are more ambitious, experienced and skilled when it comes to searching for/finding difficult hides. That's not at all what attracts me into geocaching.

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A better question might be: as an oldtimer do you feel valued?

 

Yes this is a very good question, thank you for asking it.

 

As a customer of geocaching.com, while on the forums, I tend not to feel valued.

 

I think I'm a pretty good customer and like to feel valued by the places that I give my business to, and refer a lot of other customers to.

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Dinosaur here*.

 

If you're a dinosaur at 6 years than I must be an ammonite crawling out of the sea or something at 11 years.

 

I agree in principle that old timers bring wisdom to the game and at times hold it together. But I disagree that ALL regulars here in the forums are good for the forums. Particularly the ones that sit here day after day, page after page, and do nothing but respond to posts rather an actually going out to geocache. I come and go periodically here in the forums because I despise the nitpicking, pouncing, holier than thou attitudes that some of the regulars espouse. If they geocached as much as they posted, Alamogal might be given a run for his money.

It's funny you say this.

 

I learned about geocaching back in 2001. Then I didn't join until 2005. And I didn't participate a ton on the forums, but I dabbled, participated, and learned a lot (and even can see my opinions evolve if I really get bored and read through things...). Now that I'm living up in Alaska, I find myself spending more time on the forums than I do caching. That mostly has to do with the fact that I now live in a small town, and I'd have to buy a boat or drive a minimum of 70 miles to find a new cache. So I've slowly started hiding more caches instead of finding them.

 

I don't consider myself an "old timer" because I didn't join up or get really involved until 2005. But in terms of user number/enrollment date, I can feel "old" from time to time in the forums and in the field. I've been pounced on, had nits picked...and also done the same myself.

 

I think we invite trouble when we try to rate others based on find count, enrollment date, and/or forum posts. There is, however, a lot to learn from older enrollees that might go on ignored or dismissed. Same goes for find counts. The thing is, there's good and bad to be learned, and I just try to keep learning every day instead of becoming a crotchety, stick-in-the-mud old-timer.

 

Now, get off my lawn! :laughing:

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It's not only how long those who have cached or how many. Its how they cache. Have they found different types or only easy trads? Differenct types of containers or just film canisters and ammo cans?

 

I regard myself as old timer, but not as an experienced well rounded cacher and I have no interest into turning into the latter. I started geocaching in 2002 and there are many cachers who cache less than 2 years who are more ambitious, experienced and skilled when it comes to searching for/finding difficult hides. That's not at all what attracts me into geocaching.

 

Okay, but this thread isn't about what brought you (the general you) to geocaching. It's about those with a certain amount of longevity with the game have brought to geocaching.

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