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A geocache REQUIRES a 4WD?


Andronicus
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I beg to differ. The guideline for rating terrain refers to the terrain. If it requires specialized equipment to conquer the terrain, then it would be a T5. The actual wording for T5 is:

 

Extremely challenging terrain

Requires specialized equipment (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc.) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

From another thread...

The guidlines(?) suggest a geocache that requires a 4WD should be rated T5. I don't believe there is such a thing as "requireing a 4WD". Geocaching is such a outdoorsy activity, that most people around here will hike (or peddel bike/hike) into caches that you could (should?) drive into using a 4WD or an ATV. I find it almost offensive that someone would even suggest that you need a 4WD to get to a cache.

 

And as for boat, around here all you have to do is wait for winter, then hike in. T5 for Boat Required seems a little silly up here in Canada.

 

PS. Hicking = Hiking

Edited by Andronicus
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We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

Wow, that is bizzar. I guess in Canada, we have so much public land (89% of the 2nd largest country) that these sorts of things are not needed.

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Wow, that is bizzar.

 

:laughing: That pretty much sums up California :laughing:

 

It's pretty common in much of the State to have this sort of segregation of recreational uses going on, ostensibly to keep everyone from killing each other I suppose. In a battle between a jeep and a mountain bike, I'm pretty confident who's going to win that match.

 

Some of the more popular long trails, like the Rubicon, and Dusy Ershim, are open to all users, although with the amount of traffic those trails see, I'm not sure you could describe it as a wilderness experience.

 

I love the time I've had up in Canada. Can't wait to get back B)

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We got OHV area as well in Oregon. Oregon sand dunes where OHV is allowed does allow people walking out there. Very hard to do but I know a few cachers that hike them all. :laughing: Oh its rated high for a reason. And there are few evil CO that placed caches where you cant get to it via a 4x4. Well...its an extremely long hike from trailhead, but closer with a 4x4 but still a hike! :laughing: And there are few that are placed in a lake in the middle of the sand dune! Now thats evil! :blink:

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We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

 

Pretty rare. In fact, never heard of it before. They won't allow you to hike if you want to?

No, they won't. I was on my way up the hill to another State Park at the top that borders the OHV area, and thought I'd slip in through one of the access trails near the road. All signed pretty clearly that foot traffic and bikes were not welcome. The cache pages make it pretty clear in the write ups, and the majority of the Listings are rated fairly high on Terrain because of the limitation.

 

On the bright side, the patrolling Rangers in the area hide caches too :)

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We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

 

Pretty rare. In fact, never heard of it before. They won't allow you to hike if you want to?

No, they won't. I was on my way up the hill to another State Park at the top that borders the OHV area, and thought I'd slip in through one of the access trails near the road. All signed pretty clearly that foot traffic and bikes were not welcome. The cache pages make it pretty clear in the write ups, and the majority of the Listings are rated fairly high on Terrain because of the limitation.

 

On the bright side, the patrolling Rangers in the area hide caches too :)

 

Interesting, but again, highly unusual. I suppose they enforce that for safety reasons. Probably not the reason for the 4X4 being required part of the Terrain rating, but who knows...?

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The cache pages make it pretty clear in the write ups, and the majority of the Listings are rated fairly high on Terrain because of the limitation.

And if hikers were allowed to walk to the same spot and ATVs were excluded, then it often would be a lot harder to get there but the cache might be rated T4 instead of T5. Go figure.

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We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

Wow, that is bizzar. I guess in Canada, we have so much public land (89% of the 2nd largest country) that these sorts of things are not needed.

 

But south of you (IIRC you're either in Calgary or Edmonton) there's a few caches on Crown land that recommend 4X4 and to be prepared to spend the night and all that fun stuff, because there's nobody coming to get you, and nobody who will happen to find you.

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We got OHV area as well in Oregon. Oregon sand dunes where OHV is allowed does allow people walking out there. Very hard to do but I know a few cachers that hike them all. :laughing: Oh its rated high for a reason. And there are few evil CO that placed caches where you cant get to it via a 4x4. Well...its an extremely long hike from trailhead, but closer with a 4x4 but still a hike! :laughing: And there are few that are placed in a lake in the middle of the sand dune! Now thats evil! :blink:

Now now Swineflew I remember that evil cache hider giving Jeep rides out to them caches. And I love a good dune lake.

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We got OHV area as well in Oregon. Oregon sand dunes where OHV is allowed does allow people walking out there. Very hard to do but I know a few cachers that hike them all. :laughing: Oh its rated high for a reason. And there are few evil CO that placed caches where you cant get to it via a 4x4. Well...its an extremely long hike from trailhead, but closer with a 4x4 but still a hike! :laughing: And there are few that are placed in a lake in the middle of the sand dune! Now thats evil! :blink:

Now now Swineflew I remember that evil cache hider giving Jeep rides out to them caches. And I love a good dune lake.

No comments. :lol:

 

BTW... thanks for the jeep ride...it was fun!

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We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

 

Pretty rare. In fact, never heard of it before. They won't allow you to hike if you want to?

No, they won't. I was on my way up the hill to another State Park at the top that borders the OHV area, and thought I'd slip in through one of the access trails near the road. All signed pretty clearly that foot traffic and bikes were not welcome. The cache pages make it pretty clear in the write ups, and the majority of the Listings are rated fairly high on Terrain because of the limitation.

 

On the bright side, the patrolling Rangers in the area hide caches too :)

 

Interesting, but again, highly unusual. I suppose they enforce that for safety reasons. Probably not the reason for the 4X4 being required part of the Terrain rating, but who knows...?

Hollister Hills they may allow hiking during certain events on the lower terrain but the higher more difficult ones NO. And even harder is the motorcycle section where you can't use 4X4s either. There are many states in the west that are OHV only and there is good reason. You don't always know when a vehicle is coming and the roads and paths can be too narrow. I have done Hollister Hills with a group of 4X4 riders. Just getting out of the vehicle to search for the cache can be scary.

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Hollister Hills they may allow hiking during certain events on the lower terrain but the higher more difficult ones NO. And even harder is the motorcycle section where you can't use 4X4s either. There are many states in the west that are OHV only and there is good reason. You don't always know when a vehicle is coming and the roads and paths can be too narrow. I have done Hollister Hills with a group of 4X4 riders. Just getting out of the vehicle to search for the cache can be scary.

 

This concept is new to me so forgive me if this is a n00b type question, but do people belt around these tracks so fast that they'll fly around blind corners unable to stop within the track they can see? Doesn't seem like good 4x4 driving to do so - there could be any one of a number of hazards just around the corner - fallen tree, giant pothole, mudpit, broken down/stuck 4x4, person winching out their vehicle or fixing a puncture... :blink:

Edited by funkymunkyzone
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Hollister Hills they may allow hiking during certain events on the lower terrain but the higher more difficult ones NO. And even harder is the motorcycle section where you can't use 4X4s either. There are many states in the west that are OHV only and there is good reason. You don't always know when a vehicle is coming and the roads and paths can be too narrow. I have done Hollister Hills with a group of 4X4 riders. Just getting out of the vehicle to search for the cache can be scary.

 

This concept is new to me so forgive me if this is a n00b type question, but do people belt around these tracks so fast that they'll fly around blind corners unable to stop within the track they can see? Doesn't seem like good 4x4 driving to do so - there could be any one of a number of hazards just around the corner - fallen tree, giant pothole, mudpit, broken down/stuck 4x4, person winching out their vehicle or fixing a puncture... :blink:

Yes and I have seen it all. We even had to pull someone out of a 4x4 playground plus watch out for traffic so they wouldn't hit the winch cable. There are speed limits but on these tracks it seems faster then it is. Even if you are going 25 if a hiker was there you wouldn't see them. In Ocotillo Wells there are dirt freeways that they drive really fast through. These places are just too dangerous for pedestrians.

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We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

 

Pretty rare. In fact, never heard of it before. They won't allow you to hike if you want to?

I'm pretty sure the Gilbert, MN OHV park is the same deal... But I might be wrong

Link to comment

We have off highway vehicle parks (run by the State) in my area (i.e. OHV), and yes, 4WD is mandatory. They won't let you on the trails without one. You're not even allowed to hike/bike/equestrian in these areas.

 

Edit to add link:

 

Hollister Hills SVRA

Wow, that is bizzar. I guess in Canada, we have so much public land (89% of the 2nd largest country) that these sorts of things are not needed.

 

It's not that bizarre. Having off road vehicles and hiking/biking/equestrian use on those same roads is a safety issue and the terrain is such that the don't want to be towing out vehicles that get stuck all day because they can't make it up hills. Keep in mind that Hollister Hills is also less than an hour from silicon valley and is one of the few places near that metropolis where one can drive an off road vehicle. I would guess that a good portion of that public land in Canada isn't near a major metropolis.

 

 

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Echoing others, some areas are "vehicle required". One near me, ATV, dirt bikes only.

 

However, there are places where without 4WD, you're talking overnight pack trip. At that point, the terrain rating is a 5 anyway, for hike length, terrain and overnight stay(s).

 

If you think of the terrain rating as expressing the most logical approach, instead of as a prize to be awarded, this may make more sense.

 

I own a cache that I rated 5 for approach by paddle craft. By far the easiest access, pleasant, flat water paddle. Or you can do a long hairy trailess swamp 'whack, call it T4 or 4.5. I think the 5 rating is appropriate. There have been some hikers.

 

I do see it mis-used some. Caches that are readily hike accessible, but if you want to them as P&G, the way the cache owner placed 'em, they take 4x - so they're rated 5. I'd link to one, but I'm not wanting to call out the cache owner (who is dead in any case, no editing that page now...)

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I just take this to mean that if you need a 4WD to get to the intended point of embarkment, it should have the higher rating. I'm thinking of caches out in the sticks where the cache owner really intends for you to drive a 4WD down 60 miles of winding road to the trailhead. I mean, you could hike that or try to take your Honda Civic, but I can tell you from experience that it's not always wise to do either.

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There is NO way we would have attempted GCC52E without a 4WD

 

As the cache description states:

 

THIS GEOCACHE IS LOCATED IN ONE OF THE MOST HOSTILE ENVIRONMENTS ON EARTH. Driving is over soft sand in temperatures that often reach 50°C with little chance of recovery other than self help. Walking for assistance is not an option. You have been warned.

 

This geocache is located in one of the most hostile environments on Earth. No one should attempt it except under the guidance of someone experienced in the area and extremely confident of their abilities. You must be properly prepared including having a contingency if vehicles break down. There is little chance of assistance other then self help and the nearest paved road could be as far as 70kms away. Driving is over soft sand in temperatures that often reach 50°C. You have been warned.

 

So yes a cache can require a 4WD

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There is NO way we would have attempted GCC52E without a 4WD

 

As the cache description states:

 

THIS GEOCACHE IS LOCATED IN ONE OF THE MOST HOSTILE ENVIRONMENTS ON EARTH. Driving is over soft sand in temperatures that often reach 50°C with little chance of recovery other than self help. Walking for assistance is not an option. You have been warned.

 

This geocache is located in one of the most hostile environments on Earth. No one should attempt it except under the guidance of someone experienced in the area and extremely confident of their abilities. You must be properly prepared including having a contingency if vehicles break down. There is little chance of assistance other then self help and the nearest paved road could be as far as 70kms away. Driving is over soft sand in temperatures that often reach 50°C. You have been warned.

 

So yes a cache can require a 4WD

70 km is quite far. But you could do the round trip in 1 week. And you probably should pick weather that is a little cooler than 50°C

 

Edit, Google maps shows it as 30km to a highway.

Edited by Andronicus
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There is NO way we would have attempted GCC52E without a 4WD

 

As the cache description states:

 

THIS GEOCACHE IS LOCATED IN ONE OF THE MOST HOSTILE ENVIRONMENTS ON EARTH. Driving is over soft sand in temperatures that often reach 50°C with little chance of recovery other than self help. Walking for assistance is not an option. You have been warned.

 

This geocache is located in one of the most hostile environments on Earth. No one should attempt it except under the guidance of someone experienced in the area and extremely confident of their abilities. You must be properly prepared including having a contingency if vehicles break down. There is little chance of assistance other then self help and the nearest paved road could be as far as 70kms away. Driving is over soft sand in temperatures that often reach 50°C. You have been warned.

 

So yes a cache can require a 4WD

70 km is quite far. But you could do the round trip in 1 week. And you probably should pick weather that is a little cooler than 50°C

 

Edit, Google maps shows it as 30km to a highway.

Looks like Dec-Feb should provide OK weather for making this hike. That said, I can sure see why you would want to use an ORV. Turn a 3 day hike into a 1-2h drive.

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Here another one that require a 4x4. http://coord.info/GC2101

 

And the correct time of the year as well because they are some water crossing.

 

(the last few logs are arm chair logged) :ph34r:

 

And here's another caches with a description as "one of the most inhospitable places on earth"

 

Erta Ale Volcano

 

"Not made for the comfort-seeking tourist, you need to get into the world's hottest desert, travel among armed Afar nomad people who are at gunpoint with the ethiopian army and master volcanic territory.

 

Getting to Erta Ale is not easy - just to reach the volcano is a test of endurance. The volcano is situated at the bottom of the Danakil Depression, generally considered to be one of the most inhospitable regions on earth, a valley floor 130 m below sea level. The climatic conditions are terrible, with record temperatures 56°C in the shade, but with no shade to be found there."

 

The nearest "road" is about 40km away and the nearest paved road about 120km.

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Here another one that require a 4x4. http://coord.info/GC2101

 

And the correct time of the year as well because they are some water crossing.

 

(the last few logs are arm chair logged) :ph34r:

 

I was going to say "how does Swiney know they last 5 are armchair logs"? Well, they are. They're just missing the "greetings from". :lol: Anywho, there's a picture from the last legitimate finder standing in front of a sign saying it's 18 miles to the marker along a road in the background that I'd only dream of riding on with a 4WD vehicle. So I'd go with required. :)

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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I totally forgot about the Black Bear Road in Colorado. Any caches in that area will require a Jeep(not just a 4x4 but a JEEP!) and nerve of steel. :blink:

 

Google is your friend about that road. :blink:

Colorado is a lot like Alberta, so I figured this one is likely not 4x4 only. Sure enough, google satellite shows many hiking trails all over that area. That is a good example of BS 4x4 only geocaches.

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I totally forgot about the Black Bear Road in Colorado. Any caches in that area will require a Jeep(not just a 4x4 but a JEEP!) and nerve of steel. :blink:

 

Google is your friend about that road. :blink:

Colorado is a lot like Alberta, so I figured this one is likely not 4x4 only. Sure enough, google satellite shows many hiking trails all over that area. That is a good example of BS 4x4 only geocaches.

still depends on where the restriction is.

Edited by jellis
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I completely understand Requiring a 4WD/ATV/RTV/MX/SNOX to get a cache. In fact, I own a number of caches where its almost completely necessary, and completely Necessary in some cases. On the contrary; I do not mark them as T5 as in my area of the world, interior Alaska, most people already own these types of vehicles and do not consider them extreme or special. If one of these types of caches pop up on the new list during work hours, in our area, it would not be an uncommon occurrence for one to hop on their quad/sled/4WD truck and snatch up the smiley before dinner.

 

I'm not antagonizing any of you, Im just stating my oppinions/actions and what I observe in my area.

 

Caches being classified this way I think depends on a few factors. Most of mine being that it would be Extremely dangerous with the mountains that have to be conquered, ground that have to be covered, weather/ Changes in weather, and wildlife that is better off to just be speeding past rather than saying "Good Bear" You'd be 2-3 days on foot...

Edited by AKACRider
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Being the owner of a few of these types of caches, again, im not antagonizing anyone at all, I don't think they are looking down their nose, I and I would hope the CO you have in mind, hide those caches for people who have a burning passion for off roading AND caching.

 

I know its an odd mix, but it does happen.

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I completely understand Requiring a 4WD/ATV/RTV/MX/SNOX to get a cache. In fact, I own a number of caches where its almost completely necessary, and completely Necessary in some cases. On the contrary; I do not mark them as T5 as in my area of the world, interior Alaska, most people already own these types of vehicles and do not consider them extreme or special. If one of these types of caches pop up on the new list during work hours, in our area, it would not be an uncommon occurrence for one to hop on their quad/sled/4WD truck and snatch up the smiley before dinner.

 

I'm not antagonizing any of you, Im just stating my oppinions/actions and what I observe in my area.

 

Caches being classified this way I think depends on a few factors. Most of mine being that it would be Extremely dangerous with the mountains that have to be conquered, ground that have to be covered, weather/ Changes in weather, and wildlife that is better off to just be speeding past rather than saying "Good Bear" You'd be 2-3 days on foot...

I disagree... for someone from out of the area, its rated wrong. It still require a "special equipment" even everyone got one. Its "require" to have them in some part of the country. I know some part of USA where most people own a boat because its require to live in that area but many of the caches there are still T5 because its the correct rating.

 

Please rated them correctly even everybody got the "special equipment".

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i'm sort of on the fence on the matter, as they are not ones a sane tourist would attempt, thought I do Understand where you are coming from... I just cant bring myself to mark them T5 when if you had a super determined, super gutsy rambo dude, could take 2 days and do it without special equipment...

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i'm sort of on the fence on the matter, as they are not ones a sane tourist would attempt, thought I do Understand where you are coming from... I just cant bring myself to mark them T5 when if you had a super determined, super gutsy rambo dude, could take 2 days and do it without special equipment...

Then make it a 4.5

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