Working with Groundspeak and Reviewers for "active" events

[+funkymunkyzone]

I think part of the reason for all these threads is that some people feel the pizza parlor event or doughnuts at Tim Horton's events have become too numerous and would like to see more diversity. I'm sure there are areas that still organize day long picnics or perhaps a geocacher softball game; but it seems more and more like all events are the same.

 

I could not agree more.

 

But I can't help thinking that this is exactly the same argument that comes up in the whole there aren't any quality cache hides anymore debate, during which there are the inevitable cries of "lead by example".

 

So perhaps the solution is for those who wish for great events - day long picnics where some people might go off for a hike in the middle, whatever - organise some great events. Other cachers will catch on. What's the worst that can happen - an arms race where everyone tries to put on a better event than last time?

[cezanne]

 

So perhaps the solution is for those who wish for great events - day long picnics where some people might go off for a hike in the middle, whatever - organise some great events.

 

Everyone defines a great event differently. My idea of a great event is not a day long picnic. It's rather a day long hike where some might want to have a picnic at the end.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[cezanne]

There was nothing static about the activities I had at those events. They were simply optional and there was always someone at the event coords during the event.

 

That fits well to the set up of a garden party or a birthday celebration but not so much to an outdoor activity like a hike. It does not make sense to have someone sit for 3 hours at the parking lot while others go for a hike. What you did is perfectly fine for your event, but shouldn't be the norm for all events.

If I want to spend a physically active weekend day and at the same time meet some cachers, I would not choose to attend an event like yours.

 

So gather your friends and go for the hike. Why do you need another smiley for it?

 

Why do you need a smiley for the garden party? I would happy with geocaching events that do not count as find at all (would be my preference anyway).

 

I wrote I want to meet other cachers - not necessarily my friends.

[+funkymunkyzone]

There was nothing static about the activities I had at those events. They were simply optional and there was always someone at the event coords during the event.

 

That fits well to the set up of a garden party or a birthday celebration but not so much to an outdoor activity like a hike. It does not make sense to have someone sit for 3 hours at the parking lot while others go for a hike. What you did is perfectly fine for your event, but shouldn't be the norm for all events.

If I want to spend a physically active weekend day and at the same time meet some cachers, I would not choose to attend an event like yours.

 

So gather your friends and go for the hike. Why do you need another smiley for it?

 

Why do you need a smiley for the garden party? I would happy with geocaching events that do not count as find at all (would be my preference anyway).

 

I wrote I want to meet other cachers - not necessarily my friends.

 

If you don't want them to count as finds then what are you arguing about? Just arrange to have a hike - you'll get your hike. If advertising the opportunity is by means of publishing a 30 minute preparation time event in the carpark then awesome.

 

Frankly calling my events "garden parties" is a little bit offensive given the complexity of the events I have organised. When you've organised a mega, let me know. I'm out.

[cezanne]

 

If you don't want them to count as finds then what are you arguing about? Just arrange to have a hike - you'll get your hike. If advertising the opportunity is by means of publishing a 30 minute preparation time event in the carpark then awesome.

 

I'm not understanding why something which is referred to as cornerstone of the thriving and growing geocaching community by Groundspeak on their website is subject to so many restrictions.

If events were not counted as finds, they still could be listed as what they are - gatherings of geocachers. Why should one favour certain types of activities over others?

Is it fair to refer to hosts of a hiking event as underachievers and call the organizers of a 1 hour garden party overachiever?

 

Frankly calling my events "garden parties" is a little bit offensive given the complexity of the events I have organised. When you've organised a mega, let me know. I'm out.

 

I did not call your events a garden party. I asked the same question as you for hikes for garden parties. Why I should want to organize a mega event? I would not even be willing to attend one if you paid me a lot for it.

 

I'm for diversity. Events like the ones you organized should have a place like hiking events, garden parties etc

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Anyone ever stop to think maybe GS is slowly turning geocaching into an indoor game?

 

It started with puzzles, now this, what's next?

 

Can you give us a single example of a puzzle cache that does not require you to go outdoors?

 

 

[+narcissa]

I think part of the reason for all these threads is that some people feel the pizza parlor event or doughnuts at Tim Horton's events have become too numerous and would like to see more diversity. I'm sure there are areas that still organize day long picnics or perhaps a geocacher softball game; but it seems more and more like all events are the same.

 

I could not agree more.

 

But I can't help thinking that this is exactly the same argument that comes up in the whole there aren't any quality cache hides anymore debate, during which there are the inevitable cries of "lead by example".

 

So perhaps the solution is for those who wish for great events - day long picnics where some people might go off for a hike in the middle, whatever - organise some great events. Other cachers will catch on. What's the worst that can happen - an arms race where everyone tries to put on a better event than last time?

 

Isn't it much better to just say disparaging things about existing events and the people who go to the trouble of organizing them?

[cezanne]

So perhaps the solution is for those who wish for great events - day long picnics where some people might go off for a hike in the middle, whatever - organise some great events. Other cachers will catch on. What's the worst that can happen - an arms race where everyone tries to put on a better event than last time?

 

Isn't it much better to just say disparaging things about existing events and the people who go to the trouble of organizing them?

 

I do not think that anyone in this thread intents to say disparaging things about existing events and the people who organize them.

s

The issue I have is with the new way of Groundspeak to see geocaching events as equivalents of a party (they say so on their webpage) and not just a gatherings of geocachers as they have seen them previously without restricting all to the party setting. The party setting is fine, but why should it be the only one?

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+GeoLog81]

 

Everyone defines a great event differently. My idea of a great event is not a day long picnic. It's rather a day long hike where some might want to have a picnic at the end.

 

What's the problem with listing that picnic at the end as the event?

[+Team Microdot]

 

Everyone defines a great event differently. My idea of a great event is not a day long picnic. It's rather a day long hike where some might want to have a picnic at the end.

 

What's the problem with listing that picnic at the end as the event?

 

The same thing that's wrong with listing the hike as the event.

[knowschad]

In my area the event would not be allowed to have a T=4* rating as the hike is not part of the official event.

I do not have an issue if someone wants to log this event as attended without going for the hike, but I have a big issue with the fact that those who go for the hike end up with a T=1* cache.

So, is that what this is all about? The terrain rating? Terrain ratings were never intended to be collector's items. They are there to help people determine how difficult the terrain is. Perhaps terrain and difficulty ratings should not be specified for events at all.

[+narcissa]

 

Everyone defines a great event differently. My idea of a great event is not a day long picnic. It's rather a day long hike where some might want to have a picnic at the end.

 

What's the problem with listing that picnic at the end as the event?

 

Because then people can just go to the picnic and not the hike. He wants the hike itself to be the event, so people who don't do the hike can't get the smiley.

[cezanne]

Everyone defines a great event differently. My idea of a great event is not a day long picnic. It's rather a day long hike where some might want to have a picnic at the end.

 

What's the problem with listing that picnic at the end as the event?

 

From the practical point of view:

 

If the hike is lasting 6 hours and the picnic 30 minutes or 1 hour, then I think it should not end up as 30 minutes/60 minutes event which is regarded as an underachieving one when looked upon from

the party point of view. Moreover, it's not so easy to estimate the length of the hike appropriately so having meetings at a fixed location at a previously fixed time in the middle or in the end of the hike is not that convenient. When I have 7 hours at my disposition, I would not want to spend all 7 hours at a picnic. 6/1 with 6 for the hike might be a tolerable distribution for me, but

an event which only consists of a short picnic because the main amount of time is spent at a hike is a lame event in my opinion (this does not mean that it needs to be lame for someone else).

 

 

From the theoretical point of view: I do not understand why party style events are favoured and seen as the modern type of event which are the only ones fitting to their motto

Event Caches represent the cornerstone of the thriving and growing geocaching community. It's where explorers meet face-to-face, swap stories of their adventures and welcome new geocachers.

(This is taken from the knowledge book.) I'd say if they talk that big, they shouldn't be so restrictive.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+GeoLog81]

 

From the theoretical point of view: I do not understand why party style events are favoured and seen as the modern type of event which are the only ones fitting to their motto

 

 

Because they can be found using GPS, based on listing.

[cezanne]

 

From the theoretical point of view: I do not understand why party style events are favoured and seen as the modern type of event which are the only ones fitting to their motto

 

 

Because they can be found using GPS, based on listing.

 

I've never been on a hiking event where the starting point was easier to find than the location of a geocaching party. How many hiking events have you attended?

For a multi cache it also suffices if one stage or the final is to be found by GPS-usage. You are not forced to constantly look at your GPS-device and not even raise your head and watch the

surroundings just because I could miss the GPS pointer for a second.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+narcissa]

 

From the theoretical point of view: I do not understand why party style events are favoured and seen as the modern type of event which are the only ones fitting to their motto

 

 

Because they can be found using GPS, based on listing.

 

I've never been on a hiking event where the starting point was easier to find than the location of a geocaching party. How many hiking events have you attended?

For a multi cache it also suffices if one stage or the final is to be found by GPS-usage. You are not forced to constantly look at your GPS-device and not even raise your head and watch the

surroundings just because I could miss the GPS pointer for a second.

 

If it's a six hour hike and I can only join at hour 3, how do I know where to find the group?

[cezanne]

If it's a six hour hike and I can only join at hour 3, how do I know where to find the group?

 

In some special situations it will be possible, in many it will not be possible and also will not make sense (suppose e.g. that it takes three hours to reach that point - you will not win anything). I wonder why every event must be attendable for everyone throughout the whole duration. I do have some understanding for the issue some people might have when they want to meet some people who go for the hike, but cannot join the hike themselves. But for that case offering a 30 minutes interval at the posted coordinates suffices and it plays no role what happens outside of the interval.

 

Also when the workaround is used you will not know where the group is at hour 3 of the hike. So again who wins if the hike has to happen outside of the event?

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+GeoLog81]

 

Because then people can just go to the picnic and not the hike. He wants the hike itself to be the event, so people who don't do the hike can't get the smiley.

 

And that's exactly the example of ALR.

[+DanOCan]

Of course it may be the case that flash mob events of less than 1/2 hour did become too numerous in some areas and TPTB decided to make a rule against them.

Bingo!

 

When I first learned of the new guidelines, my immediate thought was "Ah, they want to put an end to five minute flashmob events." It wasn't until I read the forums that I discovered the pages and pages of gnashing of teeth over how this somehow breaks "active" events.

 

I don't see a huge issue.

 

If I was organizing a hiking event, I'd list something like:

 

DanOCan's Sample Hiking Event (GCxxxxxx) D1/T3

09:00 - 09:30: Meet and greet at the trailhead (posted coordinates)

09:30 - 14:00: We'll hike the xxxxxx trail

14:00: Estimated time of return to the trailhead.

 

Let's see, does it pass muster? I think so. I'd see what my reviewer thinks and then work with him/her on any areas of concern.

Do I care if someone shows up at the parking lot at 09:00 and leaves after five minutes? No.

Do I care if someone shows up at the parking lot at 09:28 and leaves without hiking? No.

Do I care if someone takes a different route and joins up with us on the trail partway? No.

Do I care if someone meets us at the parking lot after we're done? No.

 

There's a lot of worry about "What counts as the event?" Is it just the parking lot meeting or is it the hike itself? Who cares?

Unlike bogus logging on a physical Geocache, someone who logs an Attended on an event has no negative impact.

[+narcissa]

I wonder why every event must be attendable for everyone throughout the whole duration.

 

And I wonder why you would want to host an event that isn't.

[+narcissa]

Of course it may be the case that flash mob events of less than 1/2 hour did become too numerous in some areas and TPTB decided to make a rule against them.

Bingo!

 

When I first learned of the new guidelines, my immediate thought was "Ah, they want to put an end to five minute flashmob events." It wasn't until I read the forums that I discovered the pages and pages of gnashing of teeth over how this somehow breaks "active" events.

 

I don't see a huge issue.

 

If I was organizing a hiking event, I'd list something like:

 

DanOCan's Sample Hiking Event (GCxxxxxx) D1/T3

09:00 - 09:30: Meet and greet at the trailhead (posted coordinates)

09:30 - 14:00: We'll hike the xxxxxx trail

14:00: Estimated time of return to the trailhead.

 

Let's see, does it pass muster? I think so. I'd see what my reviewer thinks and then work with him/her on any areas of concern.

Do I care if someone shows up at the parking lot at 09:00 and leaves after five minutes? No.

Do I care if someone shows up at the parking lot at 09:28 and leaves without hiking? No.

Do I care if someone takes a different route and joins up with us on the trail partway? No.

Do I care if someone meets us at the parking lot after we're done? No.

 

There's a lot of worry about "What counts as the event?" Is it just the parking lot meeting or is it the hike itself? Who cares?

Unlike bogus logging on a physical Geocache, someone who logs an Attended on an event has no negative impact.

 

Yes, this is what I thought too, but apparently this isn't good enough.

[cezanne]

 

Because then people can just go to the picnic and not the hike. He wants the hike itself to be the event, so people who don't do the hike can't get the smiley.

 

And that's exactly the example of ALR.

 

But it's not true. I did not write anything about receiving smilies. Those who attend the picnic can log attended and I do not care.

 

However those who go for the hike can do it as part of the event and if the event host thinks up a nice hiking route, then I'd like to see this as part of the event and a valid contribution to the world of events beyond the bare minimum required by the guidelines. Moreover, a participant in the hike, I do not want to end up with a T=1* event.

[cezanne]

Of course it may be the case that flash mob events of less than 1/2 hour did become too numerous in some areas and TPTB decided to make a rule against them.

Bingo!

 

When I first learned of the new guidelines, my immediate thought was "Ah, they want to put an end to five minute flashmob events." It wasn't until I read the forums that I discovered the pages and pages of gnashing of teeth over how this somehow breaks "active" events.

 

I don't see a huge issue.

 

If I was organizing a hiking event, I'd list something like:

 

DanOCan's Sample Hiking Event (GCxxxxxx) D1/T3

09:00 - 09:30: Meet and greet at the trailhead (posted coordinates)

09:30 - 14:00: We'll hike the xxxxxx trail

14:00: Estimated time of return to the trailhead.

 

Let's see, does it pass muster? I think so. I'd see what my reviewer thinks and then work with him/her on any areas of concern.

Do I care if someone shows up at the parking lot at 09:00 and leaves after five minutes? No.

Do I care if someone shows up at the parking lot at 09:28 and leaves without hiking? No.

Do I care if someone takes a different route and joins up with us on the trail partway? No.

Do I care if someone meets us at the parking lot after we're done? No.

 

There's a lot of worry about "What counts as the event?" Is it just the parking lot meeting or is it the hike itself? Who cares?

Unlike bogus logging on a physical Geocache, someone who logs an Attended on an event has no negative impact.

 

Yes, this is what I thought too, but apparently this isn't good enough.

 

Well, it would be good enough for me too if Groundspeak allowed it that way (NeverSummer still has no reply and I understand the guidelines in the way that one need to provide 9:30 and not 14:00 as the end of the event) and if the T rating could be chosen to account for the hike (in my area the T rating T=1 would be enforced if the meeting point is reachable by car as the hike would not count as part of the event). No work with the local reviewer is necessary: I know the answer in advance, It would be move the meeting point to a location not reachable by car.

 

It makes a huge difference for me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours event. So it is very important for me that one can put end of event: 14:00 in the situation above.

I do not have an issue with any of the logging scenarios mentioned above. That's up to the individuals to decide how they deal with their event logging.

 

So to summarize in your style above:

 

Do I care about that the start and end times of an event include the hike? Yes.

Do I care about a T-rating for the event that includes the hike? Yes.

Do I care if people log attended logs in the scenarios listed above? No.

Am I willing to accept a period of 30 minutes spent at the posted coordinates within a time window with given start and end times? Yes (as a compromise)

Do I accept that a person has to be available at the posted coordinates throughout the whole event (so while the others are on a hike)? No

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[cezanne]

I wonder why every event must be attendable for everyone throughout the whole duration.

 

And I wonder why you would want to host an event that isn't.

 

Actually, there are always conflicts of time and interests in life. So whenever you set up something you take into account that it will not be the perfect fit for everyone and that some might have had time to participate if it started one hour earlier, 2 hours later etc.

 

The idea to have an event that involves a hike is to appeal to those who like such events. If someone cannot take part in event A, he/she might take part in another event that takes place at a different day, is shorter or whatever.

 

Just because I cannot hike 50km, there is no reason why everyone else should be forbidden to enjoy a 50km event hike.

 

Note that I even would be willing to offer a 30 minutes time window which allows everyone who wants to write an attended log to do so just in the same way as if the hike were not part of the event.

 

I cannot grasp why you have an issue with not being able to join the hike starting from hour 3 onwards except in special cases? Does it somehow mean that there should be no hikes just because hardly anytime everyone has time? Can you be present at all activities that are interesting to you and do you never end up with natural time conflicts? Would you ask for those activities to be banned just because you might not be able to attend them?

 

Since you bolded event above, I wonder how you define event. Is it required for an event that everyone with potential interest could make it and come to the event at any possible time?

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+narcissa]

Just because I cannot hike 50km, there is no reason why everyone else should be forbidden to enjoy a 50km event hike.

 

Maybe not, but maybe there is a point where it's just not reasonable to try to make an event out of a particular activity.

[cezanne]

Just because I cannot hike 50km, there is no reason why everyone else should be forbidden to enjoy a 50km event hike.

 

Maybe not, but maybe there is a point where it's just not reasonable to try to make an event out of a particular activity.

 

Yes, for sure, but I do not think that this point is reached for an event that can well attract 50 and more participants (cachers who really go for the full hike and enjoy it, and not taking into account

those who would just attend a meet and greet at the end of the hike).

 

Personally, I also think that giga events are questionable. They nevertheless exist.

[+Team Microdot]

It makes a huge difference for me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours event.

 

In all fairness and in the context of organizing an event the guidelines make no difference at all to you - given that you've never organised an event and, if my memory serves me, in posts on the subject you've given the distinct impression that you probably never will.

 

Your arguments are likely to carry more weight if you stick to facts and reality.

[+narcissa]

Just because I cannot hike 50km, there is no reason why everyone else should be forbidden to enjoy a 50km event hike.

 

Maybe not, but maybe there is a point where it's just not reasonable to try to make an event out of a particular activity.

 

Yes, for sure, but I do not think that this point is reached for an event that can well attract 50 and more participants (cachers who really go for the full hike and enjoy it, and not taking into account

those who would just attend a meet and greet at the end of the hike).

 

Personally, I also think that giga events are questionable. They nevertheless exist.

 

But again, is the number of participants the crucial element? Whether you have 50 people on a hike, or three people on a hike... it's a hike. Is it a geocaching event?

 

Your opinion of "giga" events is not relevant.

[+Team Microdot]

There's a lot of worry about "What counts as the event?" Is it just the parking lot meeting or is it the hike itself? Who cares?

 

In my admittedly limited experience, both my local volunteer reviewer and Groundspeak themselves certainly care - given that both insisted I change the wording on my event page to switch the emphasis from the organised activities to the event.

 

Of course the basis of the event WAS the organised activities as without them the event would have amounted to standing around on a car park - exciting huh?

 

To me this seemed completely back-to-front - just as it did to all the attendees who wondered why I'd ended up putting together such a clumsy event page which told them they didn't need to take part in the activity that was their main reason for attending at all.

[+niraD]

I wonder why every event must be attendable for everyone throughout the whole duration.

And I wonder why you would want to host an event that isn't.

If I host a murder mystery dinner at my home, then people can arrive in the middle. They may be confused as far as the details of the murder mystery go, but they can still arrive.

 

If I host a dinner train murder mystery, then people need to arrive before the departure time, because they won't be able to join us after the train leaves the station.

[+Team Microdot]

Just because I cannot hike 50km, there is no reason why everyone else should be forbidden to enjoy a 50km event hike.

 

Maybe not, but maybe there is a point where it's just not reasonable to try to make an event out of a particular activity.

 

Yes, for sure, but I do not think that this point is reached for an event that can well attract 50 and more participants (cachers who really go for the full hike and enjoy it, and not taking into account

those who would just attend a meet and greet at the end of the hike).

 

Personally, I also think that giga events are questionable. They nevertheless exist.

 

But again, is the number of participants the crucial element? Whether you have 50 people on a hike, or three people on a hike... it's a hike. Is it a geocaching event?

 

I think the point Cezanne was making was that if sufficient numbers of people turn up to any particular type of event then yes of course it is completely reasonable to make an event out of the particular activity involved.

 

There may well be some point at which it would become impractical, maybe even pointless or unreasonable to make an event out of a particular activity - but that point certainly hasn't been part of this discussion so far.

 

In answer to the second question - if it's published then it's an event - simple.

[cezanne]

It makes a huge difference for me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours event.

 

In all fairness and in the context of organizing an event the guidelines make no difference at all to you - given that you've never organised an event and, if my memory serves me, in posts on the subject you've given the distinct impression that you probably never will.

 

Your arguments are likely to carry more weight if you stick to facts and reality.

 

Well, on the one hand I do know that many others (at least in my country) feel like me (and so it influences the type of event that is available for me as attendant) and on the other hand,

I just said that I'm not the right person to host a larger event and that it is not so easy to organize one in my area that keeps reasonably small in order to end up with something I can manage in a satisfying manner. In any case, I never would hide a T=1 cache nor host a T=1 event (not because those are bad - just because that's not what I prefer to have in my portfolio of caches).

 

In earlier years there definitely has not been any demand for me to host an event as event hosts were available who did the job so much better than I ever could. More and more of them left however.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

It makes a huge difference for me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours event.

 

In all fairness and in the context of organizing an event the guidelines make no difference at all to you - given that you've never organised an event and, if my memory serves me, in posts on the subject you've given the distinct impression that you probably never will.

 

Your arguments are likely to carry more weight if you stick to facts and reality.

 

Well, on the one hand I do know that many others (at least in my country) feel like me (and so it influences the type of event that is available for me as attendant) and on the other hand,

I just said that I'm not the right person to host a larger event and that it is not so easy to organize one in my area that keeps reasonably small in order to end up with something I can manage in a satisfying manner. In any case, I never would hide a T=1 cache nor host a T=1 event (not because those are bad - just because that's not what I prefer to have in my portfolio of caches).

 

In earlier years there definitely has not been any demand for me to host an event as event hosts were available who did the job so much better than I ever could. More and more of them left however.

 

All you are doing is reinforcing the statment I made in my previous post.

 

There's no point stating that something is important to you when in actual fact it clearly is not.

[+niraD]

It makes a huge difference for me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours event.

In all fairness and in the context of organizing an event the guidelines make no difference at all to you - given that you've never organised an event and, if my memory serves me, in posts on the subject you've given the distinct impression that you probably never will.

[Emphasis added by me.]

 

If memory serves me, cezanne is affected by the way the new guidelines change the events that others organize, by the changes in the events that are available to attend locally.

[cezanne]

 

But again, is the number of participants the crucial element? Whether you have 50 people on a hike, or three people on a hike... it's a hike. Is it a geocaching event?

 

So if 3 people eat pizza or 50 people eat pizza, it's pizza eating. Is it a geocaching event?

 

Or suppose an event where a dish is served that does not appeal to the majority. Suppose e.g. someone like Labskaus (scouse) in an area where this is not a regional food.

 

For Groundspeak's new definition the answer to the pizza eating will be yes and the answer to the hike no, but I do not see a rationale in general with respect to the term geocaching event

as geocaching is neither equal to hiking nor equal to eating.

 

There is a local regular event in a restaurant in my town which is attended by some cachers mainly due to the good buffet offered to the geocachers there. (That's really true.) So couldn't you imagine that just in the same way as the food served provides just the required extra motivation for some to join and to visit that particular event is offered to some at hiking events that enjoy hiking?

 

I wonder whether your problem with accepting a hike as an acceptable part of a geocahing event comes from the new guidelines or from something based on your opinion. In the latter case, I'd like to understand what is behind your doubts whether a hike can be the main activity of a geocaching event (like pizza eating is the main activity which provides the setting for the socializing at pizza eating geocaching events).

 

 

As the number of participants is concerned: I meant if an event attracts 50+ cachers, it could not be that pathological.

 

Your opinion of "giga" events is not relevant.

 

I thought it was relevant with respect to your statement that it is not reasonable to try to make an event out of everything.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

It makes a huge difference for me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours event.

In all fairness and in the context of organizing an event the guidelines make no difference at all to you - given that you've never organised an event and, if my memory serves me, in posts on the subject you've given the distinct impression that you probably never will.

[Emphasis added by me.]

 

If memory serves me, cezanne is affected by the way the new guidelines change the events that others organize, by the changes in the events that are available to attend locally.

 

Correct.

 

What I wrote relates to my bold above.

[cezanne]

There's no point stating that something is important to you when in actual fact it clearly is not.

 

I wrote I organize/attend. Maybe I did not use the proper tense. English is not my mother tongue and I also typed quickly.

The new guidelines do not leave me with a chance to jump in with events hosted by me as I find them as frustrating as those who formerly hosted events of the type

I liked. So it would not even make sense to try to find co-organizers who could take over the part I'm bad in as the events as they are do not provide the required framework as a basis.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

There's no point stating that something is important to you when in actual fact it clearly is not.

 

I wrote I organize/attend. Maybe I did not use the proper tense. English is not my mother tongue and I also typed quickly.

 

Perhaps I misundersood your intended meaning.

 

When you used the word organise I believed that you were speaking of yourself as a person who had organised a geocache event - which as far as I can tell, you have not and from what you have written in previous threads I think that you quite possibly never will. That being the case it would seem that in that regard the guidelines are not important to you.

 

Or in other words - I understand that the guidelines for events are important to you - but only as an event attendee.

[cezanne]

There's no point stating that something is important to you when in actual fact it clearly is not.

 

I wrote I organize/attend. Maybe I did not use the proper tense. English is not my mother tongue and I also typed quickly.

 

Perhaps I misundersood your intended meaning.

 

When you used the word organise I believed that you were speaking of yourself as a person who had organised a geocache event - which as far as I can tell, you have not and from what you have written in previous threads I think that you quite possibly never will. That being the case it would seem that in that regard the guidelines are not important to you.

 

Or in other words - I understand that the guidelines for events are important to you - but only as an event attendee.

 

I meant to include the future both with regard to attendance and hosting - using present tense was not a good idea, but I did not reflect about it to be honest. It's a bit like the situation for Earthcaches. I would submit one in my area if I were not forced to provide a German version (which is not a big deal for me, but I simply do not accept it as a requirement). As long as we cannot have moving events, hosting an event is unthinkable to me. If moving events are possible, then it depends on the situation and I could imagine to host one if I have the feeling that there are chances that the outcome would be something reasonably nice and if someone would help me with the part which is difficult for me (it's not that I do not have connections to people who could do that).

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+narcissa]

I wonder whether your problem with accepting a hike as an acceptable part of a geocahing event

 

See, I don't have a problem accepting a hike as an acceptable part of a geocaching event. I've even suggested ways of incorporating hikes of various lengths within the guidelines, and I have been to events where hikes were included.

 

Once again, you're on a tirade about other people's events that is not relevant.

 

Whether it's hiking or pizza eating or kayaking or whatever, I am merely suggesting that there may be a point where any activity is just an activity, and not a geocaching event.

 

Maybe - and again, just thinking out loud here - maybe, at a certain point, the person organizing a given activity should really just organize the activity instead of trying to shoehorn it into an event cache format.

[+Team Microdot]

There's no point stating that something is important to you when in actual fact it clearly is not.

 

I wrote I organize/attend. Maybe I did not use the proper tense. English is not my mother tongue and I also typed quickly.

 

Perhaps I misundersood your intended meaning.

 

When you used the word organise I believed that you were speaking of yourself as a person who had organised a geocache event - which as far as I can tell, you have not and from what you have written in previous threads I think that you quite possibly never will. That being the case it would seem that in that regard the guidelines are not important to you.

 

Or in other words - I understand that the guidelines for events are important to you - but only as an event attendee.

 

I meant to include the future both with regard to attendance and hosting. It's a bit like the situation for Earthcaches. I would submit one in my area if I were not forced to provide a German version (which is not a big deal for me, but I simply do not accept it as a requirement). As long as we cannot have moving events, hosting an event is unthinkable to me. If moving events are possible, then it depends on the situation and I could imagine to host one if I have the feeling that there are chances that the outcome would be something reasonably nice and if someone would help me with the part which is difficult for me (it's not that I do not have connections to people who could do that).

 

If you want to fight for something on the basis that it is important to you when it really isn't - but there's a tiny possibility it may be in the furture under a collection of very prescriptive circumstances then go right ahead.

 

I'll take your argument on that score seriously if you actually do post an event - and only then

 

Until then - if you kept your arguments to things which are actually relevant here and now, they might be more convincing.

[cezanne]

Until then - if you kept your arguments to things which are actually relevant here and now, they might be more convincing.

 

That's why I used the slash. With regard to attendance the same arguments hold true than with respect to hosting events.

And with respect to attendance they apply to past/present and future.

With respect to hosting they apply only with respect to future.

So why I should I have omitted the hosting part? There was nothing extra added with respect to the view as potential host, just the slash /organize

in my statement.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

Until then - if you kept your arguments to things which are actually relevant here and now, they might be more convincing.

 

That's why I used the slash. With regard to attendance the same arguments hold true than with respect to hosting events.

And with respect to attendance they apply to past/present and future.

With respect to hosting they apply only with respect to future.

So why I should I have omitted the hosting part?

 

I give up. Please - carry on investing your energy fighting for things which are utterly irrelevant to you and utterly derailing most of the threads you take part in. Good luck with it.

[cezanne]

Until then - if you kept your arguments to things which are actually relevant here and now, they might be more convincing.

 

That's why I used the slash. With regard to attendance the same arguments hold true than with respect to hosting events.

And with respect to attendance they apply to past/present and future.

With respect to hosting they apply only with respect to future.

So why I should I have omitted the hosting part?

 

I give up. Please - carry on investing your energy fighting for things which are utterly irrelevant to you and utterly derailing most of the threads you take part in. Good luck with it.

 

I'd welcome if you tell me why they are utterly irrelevant for me if moving events where the moving activity is what the event is about are not taking place in my area and so I cannot attend them?

I was fully honest and did not obscure any of my motivations. So is your discomfort than you had to rewrite your event page more relevant than my discomfort if events of my preferred type do not take place any longer at all in my area? As to the derailment, I wonder whether the debate you started about my using the slash in organize/attend isn't exactly that what you blame me for. My repeated arguments are at least about active events and I also explained in detail how a solution that I can live with would look like.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

Until then - if you kept your arguments to things which are actually relevant here and now, they might be more convincing.

 

That's why I used the slash. With regard to attendance the same arguments hold true than with respect to hosting events.

And with respect to attendance they apply to past/present and future.

With respect to hosting they apply only with respect to future.

So why I should I have omitted the hosting part?

 

I give up. Please - carry on investing your energy fighting for things which are utterly irrelevant to you and utterly derailing most of the threads you take part in. Good luck with it.

 

I'd welcome if you tell me why they are utterly irrelevant for me if moving events where the moving activity is what the event is about are not taking place in my area and so I cannot attend them?

I was fully honest and did not obscure any of my motivations. So is your discomfort than you had to rewrite your event page more relevant than my discomfort if events of my preferred type do not take place any longer at all in my area? As to the derailment, I wonder whether the debate you started about my using the slash in organize/attend isn't exactly that what you blame me for.

 

Again you are ignoring the point I actually raised.

 

You do that a lot.

 

You're not the only forum poster who does this - there are a few - but you do it probably more often than most.

 

Read again what I wrote earlier and try to understand the point I made:

 

Your claim that the guidelines are important to you as an event organiser is false - because you are not and probably never will be an event organiser. Arguing otherwise is a waste of everyobody's time and just contributes toward derailing yet another thread with irrlevance.

[cezanne]

Your claim that the guidelines are important to you as an event organiser is false - because you are not and probably never will be an event organiser. Arguing otherwise is a waste of everyobody's time and just contributes toward derailing yet another thread with irrlevance.

 

My point was that the guidelines are important (have been important/will be important) for me for the reasons I provided for me as an event attendant in the past/in the present/in the future and along the same lines on the basis of the same arguments and reasons they also apply to my view on organizing events (which only refers to the future and as everything in the future is not known in advance - I do not even know whether I will still live in a month or whether this site will still exist).

I really do not see why it's such an important point for you.

 

Note that I did not even choose the formulation that the guidelines are important for me as an event organizer.

I wrote that it makes as difference to me whether I organize/attend a 30 minutes event or a 5 hours one, and I still think that this claim is true and I'm the only one who can verify this.

 

Anyway, forget about it. I gave my best to read what you wrote carefully and to try to understand it. It did not change that I feel that you misunderstood me which might be my fault - I do not know.

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+Team Microdot]

Your claim that the guidelines are important to you as an event organiser is false - because you are not and probably never will be an event organiser. Arguing otherwise is a waste of everyobody's time and just contributes toward derailing yet another thread with irrlevance.

 

My point was that the guidelines are important (have been important/will be important) for me for the reasons I provided for me as an event attendant in the past/in the present/in the future and along the same lines on the basis of the same arguments and reasons they also apply to my view on organizing events (which only refers to the future and as everything in the future is not known in advance - I do not even know whether I will still live in a month or whether this site will still exist).

I really do not see why it's such an important point for you.

 

I really do not see why it's such an important point for you - given that you have never and will never organise an event.

 

I am starting to think you just enjoy wasting time - yours and everybody elses - with irrelevant arguments.

[cezanne]

 

I really do not see why it's such an important point for you - given that you have never and will never organise an event.

 

I already told that all my arguments and statements hold both as attendant and host. So using the slash formulation makes perfect sense to me even in the case I were sure that I

never actually would host/co-host an event which is definitely not true.

 

So I would write a statement like "If you want to maximize your investment/minimize your costs, then ...." also in case if for some people only one part (the one before or the one after the slash)

would hold.

 

I could understand you if what I wrote only related to my view as potential event host. That's not true however.

I'm attending events and the last one I attended is one that was affected by the guideline change in a negative manner in various contexts (and will probably not be hold again after having taking place in 2011-2015). So I still do not see why what I write should be irrelevant for me even if I never ever would host an event.

 

Let's face it that it well can be that what concerns you only as an event host concerns others as event attendants, too.-

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[cezanne]

 

Once again, you're on a tirade about other people's events that is not relevant.

 

No, I'm not. I just mirrored your hiking event question with the same for a pizza event. I do not want to reduce the number of pizza events.

 

Whether it's hiking or pizza eating or kayaking or whatever, I am merely suggesting that there may be a point where any activity is just an activity, and not a geocaching event.

 

I just wonder what defines a geocache event for you. Well, I guess that it should be for set up for geocachers and offer the chance to socialize.

But apart from that I cannot see a natural point where an activity which will fill the empty framework of a geocache event with something becomes not any longer eligible for a geocaching event for you.

 

It's not the number of cachers who enjoy such events and will attend. Is it the duration? Is a 3 hours picnic ok for a event and a 8 hours picnic not any longer?

I'm really hoestly try to understand.

 

Maybe - and again, just thinking out loud here - maybe, at a certain point, the person organizing a given activity should really just organize the activity instead of trying to shoehorn it into an event cache format.

 

I see it from a different point of view. What I have in mind is not pressing something into the frame of event caches, but to be left with events that appeal to a certain target audience. I does not make me happy if my most favourite event type cannot take place (assuming that the activity should be part of the official event and also rated as such). I'm not belittling the other types of event caches - they are just not the right thing for me for the reasons I explained. And for others still other types of events will be important.

 

Unfortunately, the thread is stuck until to the point when NeverSummer gets a reply (and probably also thereafter if the answer will be negative as I suspect it).

Edited March 10, 2015 by cezanne

[+narcissa]

What I have in mind is not pressing something into the frame of event caches, but to be left with events that appeal to a certain target audience.

 

Geocaching events already have a target audience: geocachers.