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Back yard cliffs cache


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At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler, I guess I have to wonder what others might do (if anything) about a particular cache that appears to be located on private residential property...with no mention of permissions in the description. I guess what makes it more of an issue with me is the fact that this particular cache is located on a VERY steep incline with rocky 'cliffs' and is rated a T3.5. Because the CO apparently had no problem posting this without clearly indicating that the property owner was okay with a cache on their property with the potential for injury to cache hunters, I feel like folks ought to know...yet I don't really want to be "that guy" that makes a public issue of it.

 

I'm not just assuming it's private property, either. Looking at the tax maps for the area seem to back this up. The cache in question is GC4NVR0 and the property map parcel is highlighted in red:

 

XqFfRKX.png

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Well, by posting it in the Forum, you have essentially put yourself in a position of being the "cache cop" :laughing:

 

Been in place for over a year now, seems like the toothpaste is already out of the tube at this point.

 

Technically you are correct, it seems, and if we were all to consult our local tax maps, we would undoubtedly find countless similar examples. In the absence of any obvious signage to the contrary, it's kind of a tough call. The property owner doesn't appear to be exercising their right on the matter.

 

If it were me, I'd probably drop a quick email to the cache owner, or Publishing Reviewer and be done with it.

Edited by Touchstone
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Well, sounds like it is on private property but as a cache finder, would depend on the view / feel I have, if I would go for the cache. The plot shows the property lines but if its just off a road that folks walk on and is not in their actual yard, I might have been inclined to go for it without realizing. If it was my home area and I did not know of some reason to get the owner involved, would probably let it go. Have listed a cache once on a private property without realizing so as an owner would be more careful but as a finder here, not so sure.

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Cripes, even the Google map has the property lines. :unsure:

 

I have ignored such caches in the past, and I have "reported" such caches in the past. Assuming a new publication. My reviewer has been known to use County GIS or "tax maps", and I really don't think they would have published this if it were in my area. Purely speculation, though.

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Well, sounds like it is on private property but as a cache finder, would depend on the view / feel I have, if I would go for the cache. The plot shows the property lines but if its just off a road that folks walk on and is not in their actual yard, I might have been inclined to go for it without realizing. If it was my home area and I did not know of some reason to get the owner involved, would probably let it go. Have listed a cache once on a private property without realizing so as an owner would be more careful but as a finder here, not so sure.

 

Considering the steepness of the hill how densely wooded the area is, it's probably in a place where the home owner would never see anyone on the property. That doesn't that it should have been placed without obtaining permission. My MiL lives on 25 acres near the top of a hill. It's all densly wooded and she can see maybe 2-3 acres from the house. I know she would not allow a cache to be placed on her property (I'm don't think she'd even allow *me* to place one on her property) but if someone did, there are a lot of places that she never sees and it could be there without incident for a long time.

 

It *is* possible that the CO obtained permission but because the location can't be seen from the house didn't bother to mention that it was on private property. I can't really tell from the photos but may be a location where, based on the terrain, many would assume that it's public property (after 22 finds nobodies mentioned it) and, unless one looks at tax parcel maps, they'd never know that it was on private property.

 

 

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I don't normally get worked up about caches if they are potentially on private property - I leave that to the CO and resident and the cachers that may or may not be trespassing. In this case, though...well, there's a very real danger involved, one the property owner may be liable for whether they know about the cache or not. I've driven the area numerous times and it's very steep and not at all a place anyone would normally venture were it not for the presence of a cache...so intentionally drawing folks to this location could be exposing the property owner.

 

I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

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I don't normally get worked up about caches if they are potentially on private property - I leave that to the CO and resident and the cachers that may or may not be trespassing. In this case, though...well, there's a very real danger involved, one the property owner may be liable for whether they know about the cache or not. I've driven the area numerous times and it's very steep and not at all a place anyone would normally venture were it not for the presence of a cache...so intentionally drawing folks to this location could be exposing the property owner.

 

I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

That's what homeowner's insurance is for, plus caching is well-known to be an "at your own risk" activity, so I think the property owner is safe.

 

But he or she may not like ongoing visits to the property.

 

I was going to ask whether we knew for sure whether the cache was below the mean high water mark of the river, but some mods like to keep things dead serious, so i'll refrain. :rolleyes:

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I don't normally get worked up about caches if they are potentially on private property - I leave that to the CO and resident and the cachers that may or may not be trespassing. In this case, though...well, there's a very real danger involved, one the property owner may be liable for whether they know about the cache or not. I've driven the area numerous times and it's very steep and not at all a place anyone would normally venture were it not for the presence of a cache...so intentionally drawing folks to this location could be exposing the property owner.

 

I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

That's what homeowner's insurance is for, plus caching is well-known to be an "at your own risk" activity, so I think the property owner is safe.

 

I hadn't considered the liability angle. That's certainly worth thinking about.

 

Do you know happens when a property owner makes a homeowner's insurance claim? A couple of years we found a house for sale that we really liked along the Delaware river that we wanted to buy as a second/vacation home. We made and had our offer accepted then started through the process of getting a mortgage, paying for inspections, hiring a lawyer, etc. etc. Everything went went until about a week before closing when we were told by our current homeowner insurance provider that they wouldn't give us a policy because we had made a claim on our existing policy on our current home less than 3 years earlier (we had a fire on the porch that did some damage to the kitchen as well). So we tried another insurance company and got the same story. I think we contact 4 different insurance brokers which tried 8 different insurance policy providers and go the same answer. We could not get a homeowners insurance policy and without that we couldn't get a mortgage. That whole debacle ended up costing us about five grand and we have nothing to show for it other than some hits on our credit report.

 

 

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I don't normally get worked up about caches if they are potentially on private property - I leave that to the CO and resident and the cachers that may or may not be trespassing. In this case, though...well, there's a very real danger involved, one the property owner may be liable for whether they know about the cache or not. I've driven the area numerous times and it's very steep and not at all a place anyone would normally venture were it not for the presence of a cache...so intentionally drawing folks to this location could be exposing the property owner.

 

I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

That's what homeowner's insurance is for, plus caching is well-known to be an "at your own risk" activity, so I think the property owner is safe.

 

I hadn't considered the liability angle. That's certainly worth thinking about.

 

Do you know happens when a property owner makes a homeowner's insurance claim? A couple of years we found a house for sale that we really liked along the Delaware river that we wanted to buy as a second/vacation home. We made and had our offer accepted then started through the process of getting a mortgage, paying for inspections, hiring a lawyer, etc. etc. Everything went went until about a week before closing when we were told by our current homeowner insurance provider that they wouldn't give us a policy because we had made a claim on our existing policy on our current home less than 3 years earlier (we had a fire on the porch that did some damage to the kitchen as well). So we tried another insurance company and got the same story. I think we contact 4 different insurance brokers which tried 8 different insurance policy providers and go the same answer. We could not get a homeowners insurance policy and without that we couldn't get a mortgage. That whole debacle ended up costing us about five grand and we have nothing to show for it other than some hits on our credit report.

 

I've heard this sort of thing many times before. As a property owner, I certainly would resent being put into such a position of having to make an insurance claim because of a third party's actions (the third party being the cache owner)...and might even look into taking legal action against that third party if it was bad enough.

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I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

Would it be the same if you built a 10ft wall around your property and someone injured themselves climbing over it without your permission? (Although the answer seems obvious, this is a serious question - I don't know US law)

 

Anyway, that cache is clearly >10m within the property boundary, well and truly on private property. I would mention it to the cache owner or the reviewer. Could just be a simple addition of the permission onto the cache page.

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I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

Would it be the same if you built a 10ft wall around your property and someone injured themselves climbing over it without your permission? (Although the answer seems obvious, this is a serious question - I don't know US law)

 

Anyway, that cache is clearly >10m within the property boundary, well and truly on private property. I would mention it to the cache owner or the reviewer. Could just be a simple addition of the permission onto the cache page.

 

I sent an email to the CO...tried to word it as nicely as possible. I'll let it stand for a while since if I do and it gets archived, it'll look like I have some vendetta. I just feel like it's in the CO's best interest to cover himself.

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I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

Would it be the same if you built a 10ft wall around your property and someone injured themselves climbing over it without your permission? (Although the answer seems obvious, this is a serious question - I don't know US law)

 

Anyway, that cache is clearly >10m within the property boundary, well and truly on private property. I would mention it to the cache owner or the reviewer. Could just be a simple addition of the permission onto the cache page.

 

I sent an email to the CO...tried to word it as nicely as possible. I'll let it stand for a while since if I do and it gets archived, it'll look like I have some vendetta. I just feel like it's in the CO's best interest to cover himself.

 

I agree with your method...feel like in most cases things like this should be attempted with an email to the CO first. No need to go straight to the logs and write a note or NM/NA for the whole world to see. That comes later if everything is ignored (including an email to the reviewer).

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There are likely hundreds of similar hides like that out there. The CO likely thought that because it was near the road that it was okay. The DOT right of way tends to be interpreted as a public play area and cachers have imagined that it extends over a hundred feet in some cases. A quick phone call to the homeowner might clarify if it's okay, as he might not mind. Of course you could also make an anonymous call, stating that you heard that gangs are storing methamphetamines on that section of his property just to see if he owns any weapons. :ph34r:

 

A recent publishing/archival for private property around here seems a little odd.

http://coord.info/GC5NRKN

The google maps show it as part of a park, but the reviewer's tax map indicates it as being on property owned by the nearby health center. I would say that the township maps are more accurate, but likely not up to date, as the baseball fields are likely part of the park system. Even so, without signage it doesn't seem as bad as quite a few others out there.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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A recent publishing/archival for private property around here seems a little odd.

http://coord.info/GC5NRKN

The google maps show it as part of a park, but the reviewer's tax map indicates it as being on property owned by the nearby health center. I would say that the township maps are more accurate, but likely not up to date, as the baseball fields are likely part of the park system. Even so, without signage it doesn't seem as bad as quite a few others out there.

 

Google maps are notoriously bad for showing proper park boundaries. For one of my local county parks, Google Maps show a large portion of Picatinny Arsenal as part of the park. They are not! They may not be posted, but they are part of the arsenal.

Of course, Google maps are notoriously bad for their many errors.

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At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler, I guess I have to wonder what others might do (if anything) about a particular cache that appears to be located on private residential property...with no mention of permissions in the description. I guess what makes it more of an issue with me is the fact that this particular cache is located on a VERY steep incline with rocky 'cliffs' and is rated a T3.5. Because the CO apparently had no problem posting this without clearly indicating that the property owner was okay with a cache on their property with the potential for injury to cache hunters, I feel like folks ought to know...yet I don't really want to be "that guy" that makes a public issue of it.

 

I'm not just assuming it's private property, either. Looking at the tax maps for the area seem to back this up. The cache in question is GC4NVR0 and the property map parcel is highlighted in red:

 

XqFfRKX.png

 

I would automatically have second thoughts about anyone using the moniker "J Grouchy". Just saying, there's more in your handle than you care to admit and this post is just an example. If you really wanted to be a friend then why not contact the CO directly. The CO may not understand how to use "tax" maps. Or the CO may have gotten permission but either way you chose to just post a nasty gram to this site. Way to go, you just made an enemy of the CO. I am guessing that was your intent all along. It's part and parcel for the GS forums.

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At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler, I guess I have to wonder what others might do (if anything) about a particular cache that appears to be located on private residential property...with no mention of permissions in the description. I guess what makes it more of an issue with me is the fact that this particular cache is located on a VERY steep incline with rocky 'cliffs' and is rated a T3.5. Because the CO apparently had no problem posting this without clearly indicating that the property owner was okay with a cache on their property with the potential for injury to cache hunters, I feel like folks ought to know...yet I don't really want to be "that guy" that makes a public issue of it.

 

I'm not just assuming it's private property, either. Looking at the tax maps for the area seem to back this up. The cache in question is GC4NVR0 and the property map parcel is highlighted in red:

 

I would automatically have second thoughts about anyone using the moniker "J Grouchy". Just saying, there's more in your handle than you care to admit and this post is just an example. If you really wanted to be a friend then why not contact the CO directly. The CO may not understand how to use "tax" maps. Or the CO may have gotten permission but either way you chose to just post a nasty gram to this site. Way to go, you just made an enemy of the CO. I am guessing that was your intent all along. It's part and parcel for the GS forums.

 

Being that there are hundreds of similar caches out of the few million listed, it's a valid general topic.

 

Imagine how the homeowner might react if they sign up for an account and subsequently discover the activity going on in their backyard, or if someone gets injured and makes a claim against his homeowner insurance? A simple sprained ankle and x-rays to determine possible further injury typically costs $500 or more, let alone something more serious. If they discover the activity in the wrong way, it could breed a potential and unrelenting cache maggot. It's good for geocachers to stick together up until the activity starts infringing on other peoples personal possessions and is outside the boundaries of what most non cachers consider to be normal. Many people would consider a parade of people skulking around on their property offensive. Defending the rights of someone who leaves personal possession of a $10 box versus someone's $500K+ property is almost ridiculous.

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At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler, I guess I have to wonder what others might do (if anything) about a particular cache that appears to be located on private residential property...with no mention of permissions in the description. I guess what makes it more of an issue with me is the fact that this particular cache is located on a VERY steep incline with rocky 'cliffs' and is rated a T3.5. Because the CO apparently had no problem posting this without clearly indicating that the property owner was okay with a cache on their property with the potential for injury to cache hunters, I feel like folks ought to know...yet I don't really want to be "that guy" that makes a public issue of it.

 

I'm not just assuming it's private property, either. Looking at the tax maps for the area seem to back this up. The cache in question is GC4NVR0 and the property map parcel is highlighted in red:

 

XqFfRKX.png

 

I would automatically have second thoughts about anyone using the moniker "J Grouchy". Just saying, there's more in your handle than you care to admit and this post is just an example. If you really wanted to be a friend then why not contact the CO directly. The CO may not understand how to use "tax" maps. Or the CO may have gotten permission but either way you chose to just post a nasty gram to this site. Way to go, you just made an enemy of the CO. I am guessing that was your intent all along. It's part and parcel for the GS forums.

 

Here we go again with the tired old comments about my nickname. Judge books by their cover much?

 

You may not know much about me, but your post tells me volumes about you...and the only grump or grouch here is you.

Edited by J Grouchy
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I don't normally get worked up about caches if they are potentially on private property - I leave that to the CO and resident and the cachers that may or may not be trespassing. In this case, though...well, there's a very real danger involved, one the property owner may be liable for whether they know about the cache or not. I've driven the area numerous times and it's very steep and not at all a place anyone would normally venture were it not for the presence of a cache...so intentionally drawing folks to this location could be exposing the property owner.

 

I won't pretend to know the legal issues or responsibilities...but aren't the land owners generally liable for any injuries that take place on their property? Is that still true of folks who know they are trespassing without the owner's knowledge?

 

That's what homeowner's insurance is for, plus caching is well-known to be an "at your own risk" activity, so I think the property owner is safe.

 

But he or she may not like ongoing visits to the property.

 

I was going to ask whether we knew for sure whether the cache was below the mean high water mark of the river, but some mods like to keep things dead serious, so i'll refrain. :rolleyes:

Death isn't something to joke about, wmpastor.

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At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler, I guess I have to wonder what others might do (if anything) about a particular cache that appears to be located on private residential property...with no mention of permissions in the description. I guess what makes it more of an issue with me is the fact that this particular cache is located on a VERY steep incline with rocky 'cliffs' and is rated a T3.5. Because the CO apparently had no problem posting this without clearly indicating that the property owner was okay with a cache on their property with the potential for injury to cache hunters, I feel like folks ought to know...yet I don't really want to be "that guy" that makes a public issue of it.

 

I'm not just assuming it's private property, either. Looking at the tax maps for the area seem to back this up. The cache in question is GC4NVR0 and the property map parcel is highlighted in red:

 

XqFfRKX.png

 

I would automatically have second thoughts about anyone using the moniker "J Grouchy". Just saying, there's more in your handle than you care to admit and this post is just an example. If you really wanted to be a friend then why not contact the CO directly. The CO may not understand how to use "tax" maps. Or the CO may have gotten permission but either way you chose to just post a nasty gram to this site. Way to go, you just made an enemy of the CO. I am guessing that was your intent all along. It's part and parcel for the GS forums.

 

Here we go again with the tired old comments about my nickname. Judge books by their cover much?

 

You may not know much about me, but your post tells me volumes about you...and the only grump or grouch here is you.

 

I have to admit that I think he has some valid points (not about your screen name, though). You started out by saying "At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler,", and yet posted the GC# here for all to see. That's pretty much coming off as a cache cop and a spoiler. I have to agree with Johnny Rango that this should have been handled either as an email to the CO (which I see that you did, but only after you started this public thread) or an email to the reviewer. The good thing that comes out of posting it here is making it clear to others that read the forums that this may not be acceptable (you do not yet know if the cache has permission, or may in fact even be on the cache owner's own property).

 

 

It's part and parcel for the GS forums.

 

I hope that Groundspeak sees this and pays attention. I hear this SO much from other cachers at events and such. This place has a horrible reputation among most geocachers in my area, and that really needs to be fixed! This is supposed to be a place to come to, not to run from.

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At least I didn't post it as Cascade Reviewer, which I was sorely tempted to do. :laughing:

 

No, that would have been funny as Cascade Reviewer. Wait a minute... You're Cascade Reviewer? :P

 

 

Here we go again with the tired old comments about my nickname. Judge books by their cover much?

 

You may not know much about me, but your post tells me volumes about you...and the only grump or grouch here is you.

 

You should invite him to exchange emails with you, and maybe he'd understand. :o By the way, I'm very Yucky.

 

So did you hear back from the CO?

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At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler, I guess I have to wonder what others might do (if anything) about a particular cache that appears to be located on private residential property...with no mention of permissions in the description. I guess what makes it more of an issue with me is the fact that this particular cache is located on a VERY steep incline with rocky 'cliffs' and is rated a T3.5. Because the CO apparently had no problem posting this without clearly indicating that the property owner was okay with a cache on their property with the potential for injury to cache hunters, I feel like folks ought to know...yet I don't really want to be "that guy" that makes a public issue of it.

 

I'm not just assuming it's private property, either. Looking at the tax maps for the area seem to back this up. The cache in question is GC4NVR0 and the property map parcel is highlighted in red:

 

XqFfRKX.png

 

I would automatically have second thoughts about anyone using the moniker "J Grouchy". Just saying, there's more in your handle than you care to admit and this post is just an example. If you really wanted to be a friend then why not contact the CO directly. The CO may not understand how to use "tax" maps. Or the CO may have gotten permission but either way you chose to just post a nasty gram to this site. Way to go, you just made an enemy of the CO. I am guessing that was your intent all along. It's part and parcel for the GS forums.

 

Here we go again with the tired old comments about my nickname. Judge books by their cover much?

 

You may not know much about me, but your post tells me volumes about you...and the only grump or grouch here is you.

 

I have to admit that I think he has some valid points (not about your screen name, though). You started out by saying "At the risk of coming off as some sort of 'cache cop' or spoiler,", and yet posted the GC# here for all to see. That's pretty much coming off as a cache cop and a spoiler. I have to agree with Johnny Rango that this should have been handled either as an email to the CO (which I see that you did, but only after you started this public thread) or an email to the reviewer. The good thing that comes out of posting it here is making it clear to others that read the forums that this may not be acceptable (you do not yet know if the cache has permission, or may in fact even be on the cache owner's own property).

 

I'm under no illusions that posting it to the public forums posse a significant enough threat to this cache. I did feel, however, that just describing it and not showing the actual cache would lead to inevitable "maybe it's not really behind the property line" posts. I thought putting it all on the proverbial table would lead to a more useful discussion.

 

At least I didn't post it as Cascade Reviewer, which I was sorely tempted to do. :laughing:

 

No, that would have been funny as Cascade Reviewer. Wait a minute... You're Cascade Reviewer? :P

 

 

Here we go again with the tired old comments about my nickname. Judge books by their cover much?

 

You may not know much about me, but your post tells me volumes about you...and the only grump or grouch here is you.

 

You should invite him to exchange emails with you, and maybe he'd understand. :o By the way, I'm very Yucky.

 

So did you hear back from the CO?

 

I have not heard back from the CO...so I assume he is under the impression that ignoring it will make the potential problem go away. I honestly don't know if I'm interested in pursuing it. Maybe I'll just let the CO deal with any hassle that may come of it. I brought it to his attention, so there's no way he could plead ignorance. I know this stance may get a whole new round of angry responses, but I don't know if my pushing it would make things better.

 

Perhaps in a month or two, if there is no response via email or the cache page, I'll just send a 'heads up' email to the reviewer and then just let it go after that. Ultimately, the chances of anything happening are low and I'm sure folks already traipse up to that area for other reasons unrelated to geocaching since it offers a scenic view. I suppose it just bothered me that there appeared to be little to no regard for the property owner in all of this...the one person who may suffer the most hassle (aside from any injured parties) were anything to happen.

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I have not heard back from the CO...so I assume he is under the impression that ignoring it will make the potential problem go away. I honestly don't know if I'm interested in pursuing it. Maybe I'll just let the CO deal with any hassle that may come of it. I brought it to his attention, so there's no way he could plead ignorance. I know this stance may get a whole new round of angry responses, but I don't know if my pushing it would make things better.

 

Perhaps in a month or two, if there is no response via email or the cache page, I'll just send a 'heads up' email to the reviewer and then just let it go after that. Ultimately, the chances of anything happening are low and I'm sure folks already traipse up to that area for other reasons unrelated to geocaching since it offers a scenic view. I suppose it just bothered me that there appeared to be little to no regard for the property owner in all of this...the one person who may suffer the most hassle (aside from any injured parties) were anything to happen.

 

If you are so convinced that this is a problem, then why would you wait a month or two before involving a reviewer?

Edited by knowschad
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If you don't post the specific cache, then there are always plenty of discussions by people imagining varying scenarios and different locations. The owner created a page as an open invite for the geocaching public to look at, and he shouldn't be embarrassed if they talk about it or question it, especially if there is nothing wrong with it. Mostly everyone uses anonymous usernames, and nobody knows anyone's address, however we certainly can walk in other peoples backyards as well as easily find out their names and phone numbers? The borderline paranoid privacy expectations are a bit one sided. Mr. Johanneson at 34 Canyon drive discovers geocaching activity in his backyard, in which boogyman541 and jimmy666 recently visited. The CO, GeorgetownD, is now upset and embarrassed because it was discussed in the forums. :rolleyes:

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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If a hide is placed on private property, you are to place the disclaimer as to permission given.

Same holds true if you are the CO and property owner. I have discovered the same issues here.

Even so far that the CO claimed that the land was public property and the county gave permission.

The CO did not tell the truth. I called him on it in an e-mail and got no response.

Now when I find this situation I just report it to the reviewer. Problem taken care of.

After one run in with owner I decided to check GIS maps at many hides before going out.

Those maps do not come from Google. I have had to call the reviewer on the mat before about property lines for some of my hides. He used Google I use county Gis map, drastically different.

Far too many people think that property should belong to everybody. So they do not care about property lines. They trespass any way. Bad idea, you may wind up on the wrong end of something long and black.

 

As far as liability. If you don't remember about two years ago a post here told about a law case

in Texas. A CO was found liable for injury to geocache seeker. He fell out of tree.

The same rulling was used as a home owner. Atractive nussiance. You have a pool and kid drowns.

even though you not give permission your fault. Here some cities have rules in parks all cache

must be accesd with both feet on the ground. Not all do just a few. Why? Liability!!

Those that do not have that rule state that any geocache determined to be placed as to create danger will be ordered removed. Now not all cities have these rules, but as the dangerous ones are created you can bet that the rules will pop up.

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As a side note to all this. I have recently found that legislation is working through Minnesota legislature.

All who trespass on to private property for any reason whatsoever. Shall have written ppermission before doing so. Currently if those woods are not posted we may trespass until told to leave.

Not a good idea to trespass in the first place. Property owners are getting fed up with trespassers.

Will this possible law make it? I can't say, it may, it may not. But it will affect us all no matter what.

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