Complaint from CO

[+Chrysalides]

It's certainly no cause for the hand-wringing and bullying that goes on.

And name calling. That's the part that I'm most against. They can wring their hands all they want.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Chrysalides

[+L0ne.R]

I don't see a material difference. Any of those could be automatic logs. I could set things up so every one of my find logs says:

 

"Wow! This was an amazing cache! So much fun, a great hiding spot, and what a view! On the walk to the GZ, I spotted a beautiful bird I have never seen before so I took a picture and I'm going to find out what it was. Thanks so much for this great hide! This is what geocaching is all about!"

 

One could do even better..write 15, unique, 3 paragraph logs. Logs that each tell a unique little story, heap praise all over the cache and CO, and say that the cache is in great shape. Then rotate them from cache to cache...doesn't mean they are more or less sincere than TFTC!

 

Could even take the time to make up individual 5-8 paragraph masterpiece logs, without even remembering the cache...all to fool the owner into believing you thought their cache was the "bees knees"...

 

Should one go to such lengths to please an individual or group?? Does every log have to be a short story? Am I suppose to write a short story on certain caches that everyone else thinks is great (and has tons of fav points), yet I think was dull or mundane?

 

Yeah, sometimes I'm just not that wowed by caches that other people love. A cache can be well-designed, well-placed, and well-maintained and still just not be very memorable for some people. Is it the end of the world if, sometimes, some people see my caches as just another find? Not at all.

 

Your log can still reflect what you found. "Found your well-designed, and well-placed cache. The lock n lock container is well maintained. The logbook and content are in great shape. Thanks."

 

It's certainly no cause for the hand-wringing and bullying that goes on.

 

It comes across as encouraging people to treat caches like all that matters is the smiley, and that cache owners (especially those that provide a good experience) don't matter.

Edited March 8, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+Uncle Alaska]

 

It's certainly no cause for the hand-wringing and bullying that goes on.

 

It comes across as encouraging people to treat caches like all that matters is the smiley, and that cache owners (especially those that provide a good experience) don't matter.

 

What matters is very unique to each finder. What matters to a finder could be a very complex aggregation of any number of things (smiley, time with friends, exercise, personal goals, mood, etc.). For me it is about the experience (usually) and whether I choose to fully articulate that experience to the CO (and others) should not cause any more or less consternation.

[+L0ne.R]

It's certainly no cause for the hand-wringing and bullying that goes on.

 

It comes across as encouraging people to treat caches like all that matters is the smiley, and that cache owners (especially those that provide a good experience) don't matter.

 

What matters is very unique to each finder. What matters to a finder could be a very complex aggregation of any number of things (smiley, time with friends, exercise, personal goals, mood, etc.). For me it is about the experience (usually) and whether I choose to fully articulate that experience to the CO (and others) should not cause any more or less consternation.

 

So let me see if I understand, a cache owner of a good cache receives:

AwesomeCacher: "A favorite point from us for sure!

What a great container--creative and amazing attention to detail in all the elements!

This was a slippery walk on a slushy icy day.

Beautiful quiet forest!

Took beautiful wooden coin from [R] and left hockey swag.

TFTC!!"

and

TimCacher: "Found it with BobCacher! TFTC!"

BobCacher: "Found it with TimCacher! TFTC!"

He should feel the same way about the 'Found with' logs as he does about the first log? Seems to me that the first log is highly motivational and promotes his cache hiding efforts.

 

I'm not understanding why some people want to defend and promote lazy logging. Begrudgingly tolerate it maybe, but why promote and encourage non-meaningful logs.

 

If you insist on expelling gas from both ends, at the dinner table, the host can stop inviting you to dinner. Unfortunately cache owners don't have that option. Sometimes their only recourse is to explain appropriate etiquette. If the rude behavior continues or worse, now half the guests are expelling noxious odors, their only recourse is to shut the kitchen down and everyone loses out on a good meal.

Edited March 8, 2015 by L0ne.R

[+Uncle Alaska]

So let me see if I understand, a cache owner of a good cache receives:[/size][/font]

AwesomeCacher: "A favorite point from us for sure!

What a great container--creative and amazing attention to detail in all the elements!

This was a slippery walk on a slushy icy day.

Beautiful quiet forest!

Took beautiful wooden coin from [R] and left hockey swag.

TFTC!!"

and

TimCacher: "Found it with BobCacher! TFTC!"

BobCacher: "Found it with TimCacher! TFTC!"

He should feel the same way about the 'Found with' logs as he does about the first log? Seems to me that the first log is highly motivational and promotes his cache hiding efforts.

 

I'm not understanding why some people want to defend and promote lazy logging. Begrudgingly tolerate it maybe, but why promote and encourage non-meaningful logs.

 

If you insist on expelling gas from both ends, at the dinner table, the host can stop inviting you to dinner. Unfortunately cache owners don't have that option. Sometimes their only recourse is to explain appropriate etiquette. If the rude behavior continues or worse, now half the guests are expelling noxious odors, their only recourse is to shut the kitchen down and everyone loses out on a good meal.

So...the log IS all about propping up the CO's ego....good to know.

[Mr.Yuck]

It's certainly no cause for the hand-wringing and bullying that goes on.

And name calling. That's the part that I'm most against. They can wring their hands all they want.

 

Am I a name caller? Is it the word "clueless"? Or maybe the term "newbie"? I first heard that term in like 1983, when I got to Army basic training like 3 weeks after some people were already there.

 

Bullying? Puh-lease. The lack of general knowledge of the hobby and how it works before "trying it" vs. when I had to go to Gander Mountain and drop $100 minimum for a GPS unit in 2003 is really quite astounding. If that makes me a bully, I'm all like whatever.

[+Chrysalides]

 

Am I a name caller? Is it the word "clueless"? Or maybe the term "newbie"? I first heard that term in like 1983, when I got to Army basic training like 3 weeks after some people were already there.

No. Turd and lame are actually what I had in mind. Newbie isn't necessarily degoratory. Noob (which I don't believe you ever used) is.

[+L0ne.R]

1425781792[/url]' post='5480217']

1425780865[/url]' post='5480215']

So let me see if I understand, a cache owner of a good cache receives:[/size][/font]

AwesomeCacher: "A favorite point from us for sure!

What a great container--creative and amazing attention to detail in all the elements!

This was a slippery walk on a slushy icy day.

Beautiful quiet forest!

Took beautiful wooden coin from [R] and left hockey swag.

TFTC!!"

and

TimCacher: "Found it with BobCacher! TFTC!"

BobCacher: "Found it with TimCacher! TFTC!"

He should feel the same way about the 'Found with' logs as he does about the first log? Seems to me that the first log is highly motivational and promotes his cache hiding efforts.

 

I'm not understanding why some people want to defend and promote lazy logging. Begrudgingly tolerate it maybe, but why promote and encourage non-meaningful logs.

 

If you insist on expelling gas from both ends, at the dinner table, the host can stop inviting you to dinner. Unfortunately cache owners don't have that option. Sometimes their only recourse is to explain appropriate etiquette. If the rude behavior continues or worse, now half the guests are expelling noxious odors, their only recourse is to shut the kitchen down and everyone loses out on a good meal.

So...the log IS all about propping up the CO's ego....good to know.

 

Guess some people will never see the benefits in being generous and community-spirited.

[+Chrysalides]

Guess some people will never see the benefits in being generous and community-spirited.

Leaving a sincere thank you log is being generous and community spirited. Being derisive of those who did not is not.

[Mr.Yuck]

 

Am I a name caller? Is it the word "clueless"? Or maybe the term "newbie"? I first heard that term in like 1983, when I got to Army basic training like 3 weeks after some people were already there.

No. Turd and lame are actually what I had in mind. Newbie isn't necessarily degoratory. Noob (which I don't believe you ever used) is.

 

Well then, I do believe I've said "dropping a Tftc Turd", and of course "lame". Guilty.

[+narcissa]

 

Your log can still reflect what you found. "Found your well-designed, and well-placed cache. The lock n lock container is well maintained. The logbook and content are in great shape. Thanks."

 

 

Yep, a log can.

 

Or it cannot. It's totally up to the person writing the log.

 

As cache owners, we can learn to live with that, or we can spend our energy writing nastygrams to the poor souls who happen to write TFTC and have validated email addresses.

[+narcissa]

Guess some people will never see the benefits in being generous and community-spirited.

 

Evidently. A generous, community-spirited person doesn't sit and seethe because someone didn't thank them in enough words. A generous, community-spirited person puts out a cache, and doesn't need constant validation and gratitude to do so. A generous, community-spirited person knows that simply placing a good cache is a good deed that speaks for itself, even if some people leave short logs on it.

[+Uncle Alaska]

Guess some people will never see the benefits in being generous and community-spirited.

 

You mean like adding fresh log sheets, plastic baggies, o-rings and cleaning out the goo?? Something I do in so many caches that are abandoned by both active and non-active cachers alike?

[+Uncle Alaska]

I'm not understanding why some people want to defend and promote lazy logging. Begrudgingly tolerate it maybe, but why promote and encourage non-meaningful logs.

 

PS- Nowhere am I encouraging or promoting "lazy logging" (not sure how to define that, as everyone would most likely have a slightly different interpretation)... I am encouraging CO's not to lose sleep over a "lazy log".

 

Seems to me that many of the "problems" presented in this forum are heaped onto the "new cachers"...I would think time might be better spent through positive reinforcement and mentoring, rather than complaining and blaming.

[+narcissa]

Might be worth pointing out that it's considered extremely poor form for a host to comment on a guest's etiquette. The primary role of etiquette is to foster comfort in social situations.

 

If someone is unfortunate enough to experience gastric distress during a meal, they certainly don't need the added embarassment of the host shouting about etiquette and refusing them future invitations over something so minor.

[knowschad]

Why do we always see phrases like "not all of them are worthy of a thousand word essay." and "masterpiece" in these discussions? Hyperbole does nothing to prove your point. Nobody is asking for any sort of essay, masterpiece, novel, or encyclopedia. We're only saying that, hey... we bought the food and fixed the dinner, we deserve more than a belch for having you over.

[+Uncle Alaska]

Why do we always see phrases like "not all of them are worthy of a thousand word essay." and "masterpiece" in these discussions? Hyperbole does nothing to prove your point. Nobody is asking for any sort of essay, masterpiece, novel, or encyclopedia. We're only saying that, hey... we bought the food and fixed the dinner, we deserve more than a belch for having you over.

It would be one thing if you invited me into your very home, gave me food, and then I belched...However, you invited me (and the entire geocaching community) to search for a lock-n-lock hidden behind a tree. You did so knowing that there are many different types of people in the world. Why these discussions always end up with the analogy that somehow every finder is eating a three course dinner at the CO's house and being rude, I will never understand. Also, somehow, the CO is the only side of the equation spending any time or money...When a finder could be spending loads of both while travelling through areas hundreds or thousands of miles from their home. There is a yin/yang relationship between a finder and hider, no need to heap importance onto either side. Just take them as they are and try not to lose sleep over the fact that there are many different types of people out there. Some will disapoint, some may not...

Edited March 8, 2015 by Uncle Alaska

[+MawandPawKettle]

What I find amusing is this was resolved 5 pages ago and a bunch of people are still arguing about it. Paw and I try to place good caches in great locations. We spend money on ammo cans and camo the cans to match the locations and try hard to maintain the caches we own. For the most part we get decent logs. The TFTC are mostly newb’s logging from smart phones. I figure that they won’t be around to play the game long. My favorite is the smart phone people complaining that the coords were off because the phones don’t get good signals in the state forest.

We have a couple of people in our area that thinks every guard rail and culvert needs a cache. Those are the ones IF WE log that gets TFTC.

[Mr.Yuck]

What I find amusing is this was resolved 5 pages ago and a bunch of people are still arguing about it. Paw and I try to place good caches in great locations. We spend money on ammo cans and camo the cans to match the locations and try hard to maintain the caches we own. For the most part we get decent logs. The TFTC are mostly newb’s logging from smart phones. I figure that they won’t be around to play the game long. My favorite is the smart phone people complaining that the coords were off because the phones don’t get good signals in the state forest.

We have a couple of people in our area that thinks every guard rail and culvert needs a cache. Those are the ones IF WE log that gets TFTC.

 

It was never resolved, as a matter of fact. The OP never explained why they didn't mention that they had emailed the owner for a hint before dropping a Tftc log on them. And note, Chrysalides, I didn't say "Tftc Turd".

 

Excellent observations actually, MawandPawKettle. The logs MOSTLY come from newbs with smartphones, and 95%+ of them will lose interest, and not go on to become "regular Geocachers". I don't see why that has to be an excellent observation though, it's a no brainer to me. I mean we have people arguing in all these lame log threads that "not everyone is a wordsmith", or something along that lines. Then why were almost all Geocachers wordsmiths from 2000-2010 before on the spot smartphone logging?

[+narcissa]

What I find amusing is this was resolved 5 pages ago and a bunch of people are still arguing about it. Paw and I try to place good caches in great locations. We spend money on ammo cans and camo the cans to match the locations and try hard to maintain the caches we own. For the most part we get decent logs. The TFTC are mostly newb’s logging from smart phones. I figure that they won’t be around to play the game long. My favorite is the smart phone people complaining that the coords were off because the phones don’t get good signals in the state forest.

We have a couple of people in our area that thinks every guard rail and culvert needs a cache. Those are the ones IF WE log that gets TFTC.

 

It was never resolved, as a matter of fact. The OP never explained why they didn't mention that they had emailed the owner for a hint before dropping a Tftc log on them. And note, Chrysalides, I didn't say "Tftc Turd".

 

Excellent observations actually, MawandPawKettle. The logs MOSTLY come from newbs with smartphones, and 95%+ of them will lose interest, and not go on to become "regular Geocachers". I don't see why that has to be an excellent observation though, it's a no brainer to me. I mean we have people arguing in all these lame log threads that "not everyone is a wordsmith", or something along that lines. Then why were almost all Geocachers wordsmiths from 2000-2010 before on the spot smartphone logging?

 

They weren't, though.

 

The "not everyone is a wordsmith" also relates to outrage about poor spelling and grammar.

 

Really, for some, as evidenced throughout this thread, nothing is ever good enough. If we didn't have TFTC, we would still have people griping about "Cache 5 of 10 today with so-and-so. Thanks for the hide."

 

Smart phone or not, logging varies in importance from one person to the next.

 

Some people will never be induced to do more than TFTC from the field no matterhow many angry emails they get and some cache owners will never be satisfied with anything less than a personalized letter of gratitude and a favourite point in recognition of their super special snowflake cache.

 

But I think most people are in the mushy middle: writing good logs when inspired and writing short logs at other times, rolling our eyes at TFTC logs, yet not losing our minds and going after people for it.

 

For my part, a really short log usually means that I honestly don't have anything to say about it, or the cache was so lame that anything I could think of to say about it would be far more rude than a bland, four-word log.

[jholly]

What I find amusing is this was resolved 5 pages ago and a bunch of people are still arguing about it.

I was not aware that anything gets resolved in the forums. Where did you read that?

[+MawandPawKettle]

I guess I assumed things get resolved, but then again you know what happens when you assume.

[+Chrysalides]

What I find amusing is this was resolved 5 pages ago and a bunch of people are still arguing about it.

I was not aware that anything gets resolved in the forums. Where did you read that?

Definitely not. The forums here is littered with equine carcasses.

[knowschad]

Why do we always see phrases like "not all of them are worthy of a thousand word essay." and "masterpiece" in these discussions? Hyperbole does nothing to prove your point. Nobody is asking for any sort of essay, masterpiece, novel, or encyclopedia. We're only saying that, hey... we bought the food and fixed the dinner, we deserve more than a belch for having you over.

It would be one thing if you invited me into your very home, gave me food, and then I belched...However, you invited me (and the entire geocaching community) to search for a lock-n-lock hidden behind a tree. You did so knowing that there are many different types of people in the world. Why these discussions always end up with the analogy that somehow every finder is eating a three course dinner at the CO's house and being rude, I will never understand. Also, somehow, the CO is the only side of the equation spending any time or money...When a finder could be spending loads of both while travelling through areas hundreds or thousands of miles from their home. There is a yin/yang relationship between a finder and hider, no need to heap importance onto either side. Just take them as they are and try not to lose sleep over the fact that there are many different types of people out there. Some will disapoint, some may not...

 

Urp! 'Scuse me.

[knowschad]

Why do we always see phrases like "not all of them are worthy of a thousand word essay." and "masterpiece" in these discussions? Hyperbole does nothing to prove your point. Nobody is asking for any sort of essay, masterpiece, novel, or encyclopedia. We're only saying that, hey... we bought the food and fixed the dinner, we deserve more than a belch for having you over.

It would be one thing if you invited me into your very home, gave me food, and then I belched...However, you invited me (and the entire geocaching community) to search for a lock-n-lock hidden behind a tree. You did so knowing that there are many different types of people in the world. Why these discussions always end up with the analogy that somehow every finder is eating a three course dinner at the CO's house and being rude, I will never understand. Also, somehow, the CO is the only side of the equation spending any time or money...When a finder could be spending loads of both while travelling through areas hundreds or thousands of miles from their home. There is a yin/yang relationship between a finder and hider, no need to heap importance onto either side. Just take them as they are and try not to lose sleep over the fact that there are many different types of people out there. Some will disapoint, some may not...

 

First... most of my caches are a tad more complex than a lock & lock hidden behind a tree. But whatever. Yes, you are right. There are as many kinds of people in this world as there are people in this world. I concur. We can't expect them to act in any particular way. People are people. And my panties are not really in a bundle over this as much as you may think (I tend to go commando anyway). But that doesn't mean that I can't state my opinion here, and that by doing so, perhaps one potential TFTC logger will think "Hey... he has a point. He did put that here for me to find. Maybe I should recognize that in my log a little!" If I say nothing, I get nothing. If I speak up, I may get something. I chose to speak up. You can chose not to. But don't tell me not to.

[+Uncle Alaska]

Why do we always see phrases like "not all of them are worthy of a thousand word essay." and "masterpiece" in these discussions? Hyperbole does nothing to prove your point. Nobody is asking for any sort of essay, masterpiece, novel, or encyclopedia. We're only saying that, hey... we bought the food and fixed the dinner, we deserve more than a belch for having you over.

It would be one thing if you invited me into your very home, gave me food, and then I belched...However, you invited me (and the entire geocaching community) to search for a lock-n-lock hidden behind a tree. You did so knowing that there are many different types of people in the world. Why these discussions always end up with the analogy that somehow every finder is eating a three course dinner at the CO's house and being rude, I will never understand. Also, somehow, the CO is the only side of the equation spending any time or money...When a finder could be spending loads of both while travelling through areas hundreds or thousands of miles from their home. There is a yin/yang relationship between a finder and hider, no need to heap importance onto either side. Just take them as they are and try not to lose sleep over the fact that there are many different types of people out there. Some will disapoint, some may not...

 

First... most of my caches are a tad more complex than a lock & lock hidden behind a tree. But whatever. Yes, you are right. There are as many kinds of people in this world as there are people in this world. I concur. We can't expect them to act in any particular way. People are people. And my panties are not really in a bundle over this as much as you may think (I tend to go commando anyway). But that doesn't mean that I can't state my opinion here, and that by doing so, perhaps one potential TFTC logger will think "Hey... he has a point. He did put that here for me to find. Maybe I should recognize that in my log a little!" If I say nothing, I get nothing. If I speak up, I may get something. I chose to speak up. You can chose not to. But don't tell me not to.

 

Not suppressing opinions nor telling anyone "not to"...just observing and offering another side to the coin.

[+GeoLog81]

Then why were almost all Geocachers wordsmiths from 2000-2010 before on the spot smartphone logging?

 

Maybe because then you've got to go 5 km for a cache and not get 5 caches for a km?

 

They've found 5 caches on active day, not 50?

 

On the evening, you've written a log for a cache you've found, not mailed 10 people to find out which of 100 instructions for next mystery you've misunderstood?

 

Or maybe, there was something new in each cache?

[knowschad]

Then why were almost all Geocachers wordsmiths from 2000-2010 before on the spot smartphone logging?

 

Maybe because then you've got to go 5 km for a cache and not get 5 caches for a km?

 

They've found 5 caches on active day, not 50?

 

On the evening, you've written a log for a cache you've found, not mailed 10 people to find out which of 100 instructions for next mystery you've misunderstood?

 

Or maybe, there was something new in each cache?

 

I don't know how to give you a simple link for you, but if you are interested, take a look at my finds from 24 April 2010 in St. Cloud, MN. That was my record day... 105 finds scattered all over town. Read my logs.

[+Team Microdot]

I don't know how to give you a simple link for you

 

While viewing an individual found log you should see the GL code in the top-right corner with a small downward pointing arrow to the right of it (every log has a unique GL code just as every cache has a unique GC code).

 

Click that code and a little dropdown box appears which contains the hyperlink for that particular log. Then it's just a simple copy and paste operation

 

Of course that will only provide a link for that specific log - I'm unaware of a mechanism to provide a hyperlink to jump to a specific date in your list of Found logs.

[knowschad]

I don't know how to give you a simple link for you

 

While viewing an individual found log you should see the GL code in the top-right corner with a small downward pointing arrow to the right of it (every log has a unique GL code just as every cache has a unique GC code).

 

Click that code and a little dropdown box appears which contains the hyperlink for that particular log. Then it's just a simple copy and paste operation

 

Of course that will only provide a link for that specific log - I'm unaware of a mechanism to provide a hyperlink to jump to a specific date in your list of Found logs.

 

Thanks, but I know how to provide a link to a cache. I don't know how to provide a link to a listing to my finds for that one day.