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Complaint from CO


neilo10

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I had Occassion last week to go and find about 20 caches hidden by the one CO. On one of these we were rushed for time and simply wrote TFTC with the intentions of adding to the log later (which we did). I received an email from the CO to say that he expectedmore than the TFTC . I replied and said that we were doing the follow up at that time. He rudely sent me the etiquette of Caching to read. Didn't bother to reply.

 

The cache owner can feel however he/she wants, but writing to berate you for your log is totally out of line.

 

Berate or educate? Attempting a friendly dialog with a TFTC author is not necessarily meant to be taken negatively, although it's likely futile.

 

If he is to receive trite, meaningless, banal, and vapid notifications on their hides from lazy loggers, then it's not out of line to send some feedback to them.

 

No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

 

Want better logs? Hide better caches.

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I think this whole situation is just another example of how no matter what, you're pretty much darned if you do and darned if you don't.

 

Why would a cache owner get upset if someone left a meaningful log? It's rare (actually never heard of it) that a cache owner gets upset over a short meaningful log. It's the acronym-only and cut-n-paste logs that do not address the cache, that generally irk many cache owners.

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I had Occassion last week to go and find about 20 caches hidden by the one CO. On one of these we were rushed for time and simply wrote TFTC with the intentions of adding to the log later (which we did). I received an email from the CO to say that he expectedmore than the TFTC . I replied and said that we were doing the follow up at that time. He rudely sent me the etiquette of Caching to read. Didn't bother to reply.

 

The cache owner can feel however he/she wants, but writing to berate you for your log is totally out of line.

 

Berate or educate? Attempting a friendly dialog with a TFTC author is not necessarily meant to be taken negatively, although it's likely futile.

 

If he is to receive trite, meaningless, banal, and vapid notifications on their hides from lazy loggers, then it's not out of line to send some feedback to them.

 

No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

 

 

Why do cache owners need to get over that notion? Who says they need to... you? Who are you to tell cache owners what they need to care about?

 

You are assuming that the email from the cache owner was intrusive and ridiculous and complaining. That is not necessarily true. Sure, the OP said it was rude, but didn't provide any evidence of that.

 

Want better logs? Hide better caches.

 

65 favorites:

tftc

BBLV

tftc

 

50 favorites:

TFTC

Found

100!

Edited by knowschad
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If they get upset over 1 'TFTC', as a cache owner, they're going to get upset *a lot*!! Maybe time for them to start on blood pressure medication. :laughing:

 

"an email from the CO to say that he expected more than the TFTC"

 

Where do you see "upset" in that? And that is the report that we are getting from the one that was upset by that email. As far as we know, the email was very calm, educational, supportive.

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If they get upset over 1 'TFTC', as a cache owner, they're going to get upset *a lot*!! Maybe time for them to start on blood pressure medication. :laughing:

 

"an email from the CO to say that he expected more than the TFTC"

 

Where do you see "upset" in that? And that is the report that we are getting from the one that was upset by that email. As far as we know, the email was very calm, educational, supportive.

 

Not possible. The act of sending an email over a benign log is inherently unhinged and irrational.

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I had Occassion last week to go and find about 20 caches hidden by the one CO. On one of these we were rushed for time and simply wrote TFTC with the intentions of adding to the log later (which we did). I received an email from the CO to say that he expectedmore than the TFTC . I replied and said that we were doing the follow up at that time. He rudely sent me the etiquette of Caching to read. Didn't bother to reply.

 

The cache owner can feel however he/she wants, but writing to berate you for your log is totally out of line.

 

Berate or educate? Attempting a friendly dialog with a TFTC author is not necessarily meant to be taken negatively, although it's likely futile.

 

If he is to receive trite, meaningless, banal, and vapid notifications on their hides from lazy loggers, then it's not out of line to send some feedback to them.

 

No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

 

Want better logs? Hide better caches.

 

No. Cache finders need to get over the notion that dropping TFTC turds all over the place entitles them to be above reproach. If someone believes an educational email with helpful feedback is intrusive, they need to crawl back under their rock.

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I had Occassion last week to go and find about 20 caches hidden by the one CO. On one of these we were rushed for time and simply wrote TFTC with the intentions of adding to the log later (which we did). I received an email from the CO to say that he expectedmore than the TFTC . I replied and said that we were doing the follow up at that time. He rudely sent me the etiquette of Caching to read. Didn't bother to reply.

 

The cache owner can feel however he/she wants, but writing to berate you for your log is totally out of line.

 

Berate or educate? Attempting a friendly dialog with a TFTC author is not necessarily meant to be taken negatively, although it's likely futile.

 

If he is to receive trite, meaningless, banal, and vapid notifications on their hides from lazy loggers, then it's not out of line to send some feedback to them.

 

No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

 

Want better logs? Hide better caches.

 

No. Cache finders need to get over the notion that dropping TFTC turds all over the place entitles them to be above reproach. If someone believes an educational email with helpful feedback is intrusive, they need to crawl back under their rock.

 

"Thanks for the cache."

 

What is the issue here? Why interrupt your day, and someone else's, to fuss about something so benign? It's absolutely ridiculous.

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Expecting people to do things the way you do them is futile.
Yeah, but if someone is routinely violating basic geocaching etiquette, then there's a chance they're doing it out of ignorance, rather than malice. If they're doing it out of ignorance, then letting them know how their actions are perceived by others might actually help them.

As with most attempts to define geocaching etiquette, there are things that are going to be controversial.

 

Write a Great “Found It” or “Didn’t find It” Log - seems like a lot to ask from someone playing a simple game. Some people are not great writers, they may have trouble expressing themselves. Some people don't log at all (and everytime I read the forums I come a step closer to deciding that may be the best way to play the game).

 

It's fine to remind newbies that the game is made possible by people who are leaving caches to find and that most of these cache owners prefer a log sharing your experience over one that says "I found it", or that some may not read "TFTC" as "thanks for the cache" and instead think it's an insult. Maybe some don't realize that cache owners get a copy of the log or that the owners read them. Maybe they don't realize that other cachers may look to the logs to provide information about the cache and that at TFTC log doesn't provide this. On the other hand a TFTC log isn't going to be a spoiler.

 

I think it is just as much a breach or etiquette to try to "correct" someone's actions by telling them they're ignorant of "basic geocaching etiquette". Sending links to "rules of etiquette", even from the official Groundspeak blog doesn't seem likely to educate anybody - and reminds me why I seldom read the blog.

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Want better logs? Hide better caches.

 

65 favorites:

tftc

BBLV

tftc

 

50 favorites:

TFTC

Found

100!

 

Thanks Dan. I was going to post more or less the same point. I have several caches that have greater than a 80% favorite ratio and I still get TFTC logs. Irritating as all heck. But I wouldn't dream of emailing someone to complain about it. narcissa's comment is not reality.

Edited by bflentje
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No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

Why do cache owners need to get over that notion? Who says they need to... you? Who are you to tell cache owners what they need to care about?

The point is that COs shouldn't feel entitled to a detailed log from every finder, and they're being rude if they demand detailed logs when they aren't provided. narcissa said "get over" in the hopes that CO's would stop worrying about such things. I don't think that was trying to dictate what they care about so much as suggesting a easier way to avoid being rude other than by archiving all their caches so they could never get another TFTC log.

 

Education is fine, berating is not. As I understand it, in this case the OP posted one TFTC log out of several other logs on the same CO's caches on the same day, so the idea is that the CO should recognize that education isn't called for. But if he educates, he shouldn't be rude, which is how the OP characterized the response. Naturally, we don't really know how the CO reacted since we're getting the story from the other side, but since we're responding to the OP, I think it's reasonable for purposes of discussion to assume, hypothetically, that the "education" amounted to a berating without worrying.

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If they get upset over 1 'TFTC', as a cache owner, they're going to get upset *a lot*!! Maybe time for them to start on blood pressure medication. :laughing:

 

"an email from the CO to say that he expected more than the TFTC"

 

Where do you see "upset" in that? And that is the report that we are getting from the one that was upset by that email. As far as we know, the email was very calm, educational, supportive.

 

Not possible. The act of sending an email over a benign log is inherently unhinged and irrational.

 

You're really serious? :huh:

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That said, if your initial log is TFTC and later you add more, cache owner is probably not going to know that. There's no email notification of log edits. The log the cache owner is emailed is the TFTC log.

 

If you buy membership on Project GC, you can sign up for log edit notices which send you the edited logs on an email. They're not instant, they usual come in at about 4AM GMT. They also do Favourite Point Alerts too.

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No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

Why do cache owners need to get over that notion? Who says they need to... you? Who are you to tell cache owners what they need to care about?

The point is that COs shouldn't feel entitled to a detailed log from every finder, and they're being rude if they demand detailed logs when they aren't provided. narcissa said "get over" in the hopes that CO's would stop worrying about such things. I don't think that was trying to dictate what they care about so much as suggesting a easier way to avoid being rude other than by archiving all their caches so they could never get another TFTC log.

 

Education is fine, berating is not. As I understand it, in this case the OP posted one TFTC log out of several other logs on the same CO's caches on the same day, so the idea is that the CO should recognize that education isn't called for. But if he educates, he shouldn't be rude, which is how the OP characterized the response. Naturally, we don't really know how the CO reacted since we're getting the story from the other side, but since we're responding to the OP, I think it's reasonable for purposes of discussion to assume, hypothetically, that the "education" amounted to a berating without worrying.

 

Really, it is rarely acceptable to email another cacher.

 

It is particularly ridiculous to write someone to "educate" them because they didn't express enough gratitude for a cache.

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Write a Great "Found It" or "Didn't find It" Log - seems like a lot to ask from someone playing a simple game. Some people are not great writers, they may have trouble expressing themselves. S

 

Seems that we have an increasing number of geocachers that are having trouble expressing themselves.

We could go blaming the generation of cachers who grew up with cell phones and text messaging for having difficulty expressing themselves except with short abbreviations and acronyms. But I can recall a group hike where one of the cacher's father came along. Well all had a blast, but this guy simply wrote "Thanks" for all his online logs. He was about 10 years my senior and I'm 60. The fact is few people are good writers and many people will avoid having to write anything. Another cacher my age thinks being made to write a paragraph for an online log is too much like school, and he hasn't been in school for 40 years.

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Write a Great "Found It" or "Didn't find It" Log - seems like a lot to ask from someone playing a simple game. Some people are not great writers, they may have trouble expressing themselves. S

 

Seems that we have an increasing number of geocachers that are having trouble expressing themselves.

We could go blaming the generation of cachers who grew up with cell phones and text messaging for having difficulty expressing themselves except with short abbreviations and acronyms. But I can recall a group hike where one of the cacher's father came along. Well all had a blast, but this guy simply wrote "Thanks" for all his online logs. He was about 10 years my senior and I'm 60. The fact is few people are good writers and many people will avoid having to write anything. Another cacher my age thinks being made to write a paragraph for an online log is too much like school, and he hasn't been in school for 40 years.

 

The worst part of this whole thing is that the shortest logs come from cachers who can't even be reached by email, so it's the poor suckers who actually set up an account properly who get harassed like this.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

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That said, if your initial log is TFTC and later you add more, cache owner is probably not going to know that. There's no email notification of log edits. The log the cache owner is emailed is the TFTC log.

 

If you buy membership on Project GC, you can sign up for log edit notices which send you the edited logs on an email. They're not instant, they usual come in at about 4AM GMT.

 

Thanks for that tip.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Am I missing something? Doesn't TFTC stand for THANKS FOR THE CACHE?

 

When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Am I missing something? Doesn't TFTC stand for THANKS FOR THE CACHE?

 

When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

It's well known in the forum that TFTC is code for ....your cache was at best ho-hum. Not worth writing about. Not worth making the extra effort to type "Thanks for the cache" since the owner didn't put much effort into hiding a decent cache.

 

 

Edited by L0ne.R
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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

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Write a Great "Found It" or "Didn't find It" Log - seems like a lot to ask from someone playing a simple game. Some people are not great writers, they may have trouble expressing themselves. S

 

Seems that we have an increasing number of geocachers that are having trouble expressing themselves.

We could go blaming the generation of cachers who grew up with cell phones and text messaging for having difficulty expressing themselves except with short abbreviations and acronyms. But I can recall a group hike where one of the cacher's father came along. Well all had a blast, but this guy simply wrote "Thanks" for all his online logs. He was about 10 years my senior and I'm 60. The fact is few people are good writers and many people will avoid having to write anything. Another cacher my age thinks being made to write a paragraph for an online log is too much like school, and he hasn't been in school for 40 years.

 

Yes, lets blame them, shall we? :lol: Puh-leease Toz, one guy? I've told the story of a guy in my area who joined in 2004 who logged almost every cache with "good time, thx", and if you emailed him about one of his caches, he answer back "call me, 555-5555". He was one in a million. Tell me where all the "very fun", "found it", "great idea", and "nice hide" logs are coming from on this cache, just for an example of an easy micro with 800+ finds. :ph34r:

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Where did L0ne.R say anything about 'gratitude' or many 'words to thank' you? What's wrong with hoping for at least a sentence or two?

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Naturally, we don't really know how the CO reacted since we're getting the story from the other side, but since we're responding to the OP, I think it's reasonable for purposes of discussion to assume, hypothetically, that the "education" amounted to a berating without worrying.
Or we could assume that the OP is being too sensitive and somehow perceived rudeness where none was intended. Given how easily this happens with online communication, I think this is a reasonable assumption.

 

Oh, wait...

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!
"And now you know the rest of the story."

 

Except for the folks who think that sending any email for any reason is completely out of line. But you can't please everyone.

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Where did L0ne.R say anything about 'gratitude' or many 'words to thank' you? What's wrong with hoping for at least a sentence or two?

 

"Hope"

 

or

 

"Disturb cache finder with unsolicited email complaining about brevity of log"

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Where did L0ne.R say anything about 'gratitude' or many 'words to thank' you? What's wrong with hoping for at least a sentence or two?

 

"Hope"

 

or

 

"Disturb cache finder with unsolicited email complaining about brevity of log"

 

I think we're beyond the CO from the original discussion, really. I'm not even talking about email exchanges.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Am I missing something? Doesn't TFTC stand for THANKS FOR THE CACHE?

 

When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

It's well known in the forum that TFTC is code for ....your cache was at best ho-hum. Not worth writing about. Not worth making the extra effort to type "Thanks for the cache" since the owner didn't put much effort into hiding a decent cache.

 

It's well known that some people choose to interpret it this way, but it's an irrational assumption. In this case, it meant "Trying to get my logging done, plan to write more later." Much of the time, I think it means "I find and log caches with my phone and don't bother with logs." Taking it personally is irrational.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Am I missing something? Doesn't TFTC stand for THANKS FOR THE CACHE?

 

Yes, it stands for "thanks for the cache", but IMHO, if someone chooses to convey their appreciation using the minimum number of characters possible instead of writing out the words, it lacks sincerity.

 

I wouldn't suggest that someone *deserves" more than a TFTC, but in this case it sounds like it was earned.

 

 

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I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

It is easy to misunderstand, and be misunderstood, through emails.

 

It's well known in the forum that TFTC is code for ....your cache was at best ho-hum. Not worth writing about. Not worth making the extra effort to type "Thanks for the cache" since the owner didn't put much effort into hiding a decent cache.

Yes, in the forums. Mos Eisley of the geocaching universe :ph34r:

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It's well known in the forum that TFTC is code for ....your cache was at best ho-hum. Not worth writing about. Not worth making the extra effort to type "Thanks for the cache" since the owner didn't put much effort into hiding a decent cache.

Yes, in the forums. Mos Eisley of the geocaching universe :ph34r:

 

I would say rude amongst some old timers, not necessarily obnoxious posters to the forums with thousands of posts. Personally, I think "Found it" is rude. Because, as has been pointed out, the Tftc log is in fact thanking you for the cache. Once upon a time in my area, "Found it" was the ultimate insult, used if a cache sucked, or if the finder had ongoing geo-drama issues with the CO. Today, it's a classic thumbed out on a smartphone from the cache site noobie log. :P

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No. Cache owners need to get over the notion that their caches are special and deserving of detailed logs from every finder. Emailing someone to complain about this is intrusive and ridiculous.

Why do cache owners need to get over that notion? Who says they need to... you? Who are you to tell cache owners what they need to care about?

The point is that COs shouldn't feel entitled to a detailed log from every finder, and they're being rude if they demand detailed logs when they aren't provided. narcissa said "get over" in the hopes that CO's would stop worrying about such things. I don't think that was trying to dictate what they care about so much as suggesting a easier way to avoid being rude other than by archiving all their caches so they could never get another TFTC log.

 

Education is fine, berating is not. As I understand it, in this case the OP posted one TFTC log out of several other logs on the same CO's caches on the same day, so the idea is that the CO should recognize that education isn't called for. But if he educates, he shouldn't be rude, which is how the OP characterized the response. Naturally, we don't really know how the CO reacted since we're getting the story from the other side, but since we're responding to the OP, I think it's reasonable for purposes of discussion to assume, hypothetically, that the "education" amounted to a berating without worrying.

 

Really, it is rarely acceptable to email another cacher.

 

You have GOT to be kidding this time. Come on... you're pulling my leg, aren't you? Say that you are. You have to be.

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Write a Great "Found It" or "Didn't find It" Log - seems like a lot to ask from someone playing a simple game. Some people are not great writers, they may have trouble expressing themselves. S

 

Seems that we have an increasing number of geocachers that are having trouble expressing themselves.

We could go blaming the generation of cachers who grew up with cell phones and text messaging for having difficulty expressing themselves except with short abbreviations and acronyms. But I can recall a group hike where one of the cacher's father came along. Well all had a blast, but this guy simply wrote "Thanks" for all his online logs. He was about 10 years my senior and I'm 60. The fact is few people are good writers and many people will avoid having to write anything. Another cacher my age thinks being made to write a paragraph for an online log is too much like school, and he hasn't been in school for 40 years.

 

Absolutely. We had a cacher similar to that here... he passed away this past fall. He wasn't much for logging, and could barely type, but I don't believe he ever just logged TFTC. Nobody that I'm aware of has ever asked for an essay. But I'll take "Found on a 40 below winter day" any day over TFTC. A TFTC only log is like having somebody over dinner, only to have them belch and get their coats on and walk out the door without another word.

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Write a Great "Found It" or "Didn't find It" Log - seems like a lot to ask from someone playing a simple game. Some people are not great writers, they may have trouble expressing themselves. S

 

Seems that we have an increasing number of geocachers that are having trouble expressing themselves.

We could go blaming the generation of cachers who grew up with cell phones and text messaging for having difficulty expressing themselves except with short abbreviations and acronyms. But I can recall a group hike where one of the cacher's father came along. Well all had a blast, but this guy simply wrote "Thanks" for all his online logs. He was about 10 years my senior and I'm 60. The fact is few people are good writers and many people will avoid having to write anything. Another cacher my age thinks being made to write a paragraph for an online log is too much like school, and he hasn't been in school for 40 years.

 

The worst part of this whole thing is that the shortest logs come from cachers who can't even be reached by email, so it's the poor suckers who actually set up an account properly who get harassed like this.

 

Harassed? :unsure:

 

Not true what you just said, either. Plenty of acronym logs come from cachers with registered emails.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Aha! Thank you for the rest of the story. I suspected something like that. I'm on your side.

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Am I missing something? Doesn't TFTC stand for THANKS FOR THE CACHE?

 

When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

TFTC stands for "grunt! Uggg!".

 

TFTC as a part of a longer log is perfectly acceptable. I frequently end my logs with TFTC. But TFTC by itself is a grunt. A belch. A fart. It is not thanking me. Now, I suspect that a lot of newcomers checking out the Geocaching Lex see that and use it, not realizing that more is often expected.

 

Perhaps you hide generic caches that really only elicit generic logs. That's fine. If you don't mind the generic TFTC logs for your generic cache, that is just peachy. But stop trying to tell other cache owners that maybe invest a little or a lot more of themselves in their geocaches that they don't have a right to their opinions. And if emailing a cacher was as horrible an act as you make it out to be, they why is that feature a part of geocaching.com?

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Hyperbole, much?

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

It seems that there were plenty of details that the original poster left out, and it also appears that imaginations of berating and harassment were false. Thank you for the update!

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Really, it is rarely acceptable to email another cacher.

 

You have GOT to be kidding this time. Come on... you're pulling my leg, aren't you? Say that you are. You have to be.

 

But the OP emailed him first for a hint! So how does that work? :rolleyes:

 

Well, that way is OK, of course. But the one that went through the work and time and expense of actually putting the cache out there for him to DNF should NEVER, EVER email first. Apparently that is akin to terrorism, or stalking, at least. Is it a misdemeanor in some states?

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End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

My response to you is the same as my response to the OP: if you'd given him the benefit of the doubt, the more complete log would have been filed before you knew it, and we wouldn't have spent two pages discussing your hypothetical behavior. And if you'd sent him mail expressing disappointment rather than entitlement, he might have been more apologetic (as I suggested he should have been, anyway).

 

Anyway, it's good to hear that, as I think most of us suspected, neither party was actually trying to be mean.

 

I know how you feel about not being thanked when you help someone find a cache. That happens to me all the time, most often when I give someone a tip about a cache that isn't mine. But I just take it as a sign that they're always appreciative of me, so they forget to mention any specific cases.

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End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

My response to you is the same as my response to the OP: if you'd given him the benefit of the doubt, the more complete log would have been filed before you knew it, and we wouldn't have spent two pages discussing your hypothetical behavior. And if you'd sent him mail expressing disappointment rather than entitlement, he might have been more apologetic (as I suggested he should have been, anyway).

 

Anyway, it's good to hear that, as I think most of us suspected, neither party was actually trying to be mean.

 

I know how you feel about not being thanked when you help someone find a cache. That happens to me all the time, most often when I give someone a tip about a cache that isn't mine. But I just take it as a sign that they're always appreciative of me, so they forget to mention any specific cases.

 

The CO would most likely not have seen that alleged "more complete" log, since he would not be receiving notification on an edit, and few of these 'more later" loggers bother to delete and add, chosing rather to edit their short log. They won't wand to delete and relog because OMG, it might mess with their stats!

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Hyperbole, much?

I think there are some cache owners who don't care what is in the log. They just want to know if their cache was found or not. And others who relish that people take a bit more time to write something about their experience.

 

I appreciated it when someone has an interesting story to tell about searching for one of my caches or when they say that it made them laugh or that they especially enjoyed it. But I don't expect every log to be this way. The fact that they are rare makes getting them all that much better. Anyone can write a paragraph of meaningless words just to please a cache owner who thinks that four letter logs are rude. TFTC might really be a a heartfelt thank you and not "I'm too lazy to write more".

 

What ever happened to DPM? Wasn't that the way you were supposed to tell someone their cache stunk?

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Hyperbole, much?

I think there are some cache owners who don't care what is in the log. They just want to know if their cache was found or not. And others who relish that people take a bit more time to write something about their experience.

 

I appreciated it when someone has an interesting story to tell about searching for one of my caches or when they say that it made them laugh or that they especially enjoyed it. But I don't expect every log to be this way. The fact that they are rare makes getting them all that much better. Anyone can write a paragraph of meaningless words just to please a cache owner who thinks that four letter logs are rude. TFTC might really be a a heartfelt thank you and not "I'm too lazy to write more".

 

What ever happened to DPM? Wasn't that the way you were supposed to tell someone their cache stunk?

 

More words absolutely does NOT automatically equate to a better log. Especially true when 95% of said log is copy/paste that was posted on every log found that day. And I will also admit that I have used copy/paste logs on occasion, although I felt badly about not remembering more. I used to write notes or use a digital recorder for notes, but have sort of fallen out of that habit. But I have never hidden a "copy/paste" geocache. Every cache I've hidden has had thought put into that specific cache. I like to hear what the finders thought of it, and I don't intend to apologize for wanting that.

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When someone asks me for help, and then finds my cache, I see the log and think "Oh good, they found it." The end.

 

Really? You don't care if the efforts you made to hide a good cache were well received? Don't you want to live vicariously through your cache placement and hear who the finder experienced it? Isn't that a fun part of cache ownership for you?

 

I care that they were able to find it.

 

I don't need flowery descriptions of gratitude and I'm not about to go on a mad spree through someone's profile because they didn't use enough words to thank me.

 

Where did L0ne.R say anything about 'gratitude' or many 'words to thank' you? What's wrong with hoping for at least a sentence or two?

 

"Hope"

 

or

 

"Disturb cache finder with unsolicited email complaining about brevity of log"

 

When someone is courteous it's expected their efforts will be met with courtesy. Logging in the field is no excuse to be rude to a cache owner who helped out. If someone can type out an email asking for help, they can type out more than TFTC in the field. Stop for 2 minutes and type out "Thank you Wesso for helping me find this cache".

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Hi Everyone,

 

I am the CO who sent that email. I wasn't trying to berate the finder, and sending the link to log etiquette. was trying to educate, not be-little!

 

The complainer had a DNF on the cache and emailed me for a hint.....It wasn't a very hard hide. But I sent him a detailed email of where to find the cache, I could have easily ignored his request. I also said on the bottom of that email, I look forward to reading a good log.

 

Then I receive and very simply TFTC log....I didn't even get a thank you for helping me find it!!

 

End of story, I think I deserved more than a TFTC!

 

Am I missing something? Doesn't TFTC stand for THANKS FOR THE CACHE?

 

Yes, it stands for "thanks for the cache", but IMHO, if someone chooses to convey their appreciation using the minimum number of characters possible instead of writing out the words, it lacks sincerity.

 

 

I agree with paddler.

 

A grunt is a shortened form of communication too, but conveys little and often is an irritating form of communication. TFTC by itself, is a grunt. Wesso deserved better.

 

[i see knowschad also interprets TFTC as a grunt. Glad it's not just me.]

Edited by L0ne.R
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When someone is courteous it's expected their efforts will be met with courtesy. Logging in the field is no excuse to be rude to a cache owner who helped out. If someone can type out an email asking for help, they can type out more than TFTC in the field. Stop for 2 minutes and type out "Thank you Wesso for helping me find this cache".

 

Oh, there's that "courtesy" word again. Once again, this issue isn't about courtesy at all, it's about trying to control the way others play the game.

 

There's no need for an "excuse." Some people place more importance on logging than others. You can choose to interpret this as "rude" but it's irrational to expect others to place the same importance on it that you do.

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