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mischiefmonster

FTF before Publication

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1 hour ago, Ragnemalm said:

In my area, there has been a series of events with FTF hunts after the event for caches that are at the time unpublished, scheduled to be published in the night after the event. All attendants are given a link to a file with information about the new caches, and once they have the information, the whole gang sets off for FTF hunt. That means that FTF on the new caches are reserved for attendants!

 

This is perfectly legal, but the local FTF hunters don't like it. They are locked out from FTFs if they don't attend the event, and an FTF hunt with 20 people isn't much of an achievement.

 

FTF is a matter of agreement of inofficial rules. It is a pity when people disagree on them but that is hard to avoid.

 

Yes.  I was at an event recently, where the reviewer found and signed several caches, with the info given out at the event,  before he published them.  Seems to be acceptable.

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3 hours ago, daddybeth said:

I could go out with someone else who caches. Place a cache. They could then immediately find and sign it because it has become a geocache the moment I have decided where to place it. That, to me, makes little sense.

That's not uncommon here; (I've done it myself), but the person who signed when the CO hid the cache is not the FTF. The logs I have read go something like this.

 

""Cacher name' was with me when I placed the cache. They will not log until after the FTF does."

 

I have been with a CO who placed a cache and I signed the log, but not next to FTF and some way down the page to reduce confusion. Fairly common practice.

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10 minutes ago, Harry Dolphin said:

 

Yes.  I was at an event recently, where the reviewer found and signed several caches, with the info given out at the event,  before he published them.  Seems to be acceptable.

I would say the difference is that the caches have still been *published* in some form that was available for general dissemination.

 

As with logging on more than one caching site I think that is fine. It's the CO's decision how they want to publish the cache, not Groundspeaks.

 

The only provisos to that opinion would be

 

It has to be published in the sense that it is available to multiple people beyond the CO's control, e.g. everyone at an event, and

 

The obvious technical requirement of it meeting a reviewers approval for it to be logged on this website.

 

My objection would be if the CO chose who at an event he gave the list to rather than making it available to all, because then the cache has not really been "published".

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6 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

I would say the difference is that the caches have still been *published* in some form that was available for general dissemination.

 

As with logging on more than one caching site I think that is fine. It's the CO's decision how they want to publish the cache, not Groundspeaks.

 

The only provisos to that opinion would be

 

It has to be published in the sense that it is available to multiple people beyond the CO's control, e.g. everyone at an event, and

 

The obvious technical requirement of it meeting a reviewers approval for it to be logged on this website.

 

My objection would be if the CO chose who at an event he gave the list to rather than making it available to all, because then the cache has not really been "published".

The only time I've seen the co-ords handed to one person was for caches that honored that person for some reason - Birthday, anniversary, or some other "event" (non-cache).

 

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17 minutes ago, The Jester said:

The only time I've seen the co-ords handed to one person was for caches that honored that person for some reason - Birthday, anniversary, or some other "event" (non-cache).

 

Which is fair enough, although hopefully that person would not claim to be FTF any more than families around here where the kids have separate accounts could claim a FTF because their parent told them about a new cache they placed.

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I made a small series of YouTube puzzles. Well, one savvy cacher subscribed to my YouTube channel and was able to solve one of the puzzles before it published on geocaching.com . Silly me, I hadn't thought to make the YouTube videos "unlisted". Live and learn! For the cacher that solved the puzzle (and found the cache) before publication, I say more power to them.

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2 hours ago, frostengel said:

 

 

 You can log FTF anytime as there are no official rules. And by the way - I was fourth to find, may I log FTF? Sure! :-)

Yep, done that and  Fifth to Find too. ;)

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1 hour ago, daddybeth said:

Which is fair enough, although hopefully that person would not claim to be FTF any more than families around here where the kids have separate accounts could claim a FTF because their parent told them about a new cache they placed.

The whole point of giving them the co-ords is to make sure they are the FTF on the cache honoring them.  Most made that clear on the page when publishing.

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15 minutes ago, The Jester said:

The whole point of giving them the co-ords is to make sure they are the FTF on the cache honoring them.  Most made that clear on the page when publishing.

So the CO has the right to choose who is FTF? Um... okay. Like some really wanky birthday party where you fix all the games so your kid wins?

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3 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

So the CO has the right to choose who is FTF? Um... okay. Like some really wanky birthday party where you fix all the games so your kid wins?

So much angst over one (out of many hundreds or thousands around you) cache the hider placed to honor a particular person.  It's very rare.  Besides they just "published" the cache to one person and then had it published to GC.

 

I've also seen caches placed for a particular reason (birthday gift inside, or marriage proposal) and afterwards (gift/ring claimed) it's published to GC.  So, boo hoo, nobody got the chance to run out in a FTF race - they weren't designed to be part of some side game - IMO the special use trumps any FTF hound whining.

 

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18 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

So the CO has the right to choose who is FTF? Um... okay. Like some really wanky birthday party where you fix all the games so your kid wins?

 

The CO can list the cache on Geocaching.com or not, and can publish coordinates in any way he/she sees fit.  And first is first.

 

There's a first finder by time sequence, and a first finder after publication on Geocaching.com.  Some people list their "FTF" as the first person who found it ever, and that's fine.  You may keep track of your "FTF" after publication yourself, and that's also fine.  "Playing the game as you like" does not necessarily extend to you requiring everyone else to play the game as you like.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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2 hours ago, daddybeth said:
3 hours ago, The Jester said:

The only time I've seen the co-ords handed to one person was for caches that honored that person for some reason - Birthday, anniversary, or some other "event" (non-cache).

Which is fair enough, although hopefully that person would not claim to be FTF

Why not? That person was the first to find the geocache. The whole point of handing the honoree the coordinates before the listing is published is to make sure that person is the first to find the geocache.

 

Not everyone sees FTF as a race, including some cache owners. FTF hounds may not like it, but so what?

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I FTFed a published cache in Germany that, unbeknownst to me because I don't speak German, had been put out for some kids birthday.  Later that day the kid found it and proudly logged that they were FTF.

 

I laughed about it.  FTF is whatever you make it, so just have fun, and obviously if you make it something silly that makes you look silly so be it. :)

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I'm closing this improvidently bumped thread.  There is no good reason to bump three ancient threads on the same subject.

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