Benefits of Premium membership

January 20, 2015

I'm new to these forums and have read all the rules about geocaching and premium membership, so I'd like to find out from other geocachers - do you pay for the premium membership and if so, is it worth it? I don't have a lot of money, to the point where I have to tightly control my monthly budget, and $30/year comes out to $2.50 a month. That may not be a lot to some people, but when you're counting every dollar, you want to be sure each and every one is going towards a necessity. So I'm curious how many people treat this as a "must-have" or if it is possible to fully enjoy geocaching without paying that recurring fee.

I apologize in advance to Groundspeak if this question or any responses end up criticizing their revenue stream or business model. That is not my intent here - just looking for opinions other users.

1.9k · January 20, 2015

I use the PQs extensively, and the API access. It is valuable and worth it to me. But if I was on a tight like that budget, I would pass on the premium and get by without the PQs. Give it a try, play the game, see how dedicated to it you are. If you want to add in the premium features later, you always can.

13.7k · January 20, 2015

Well, since you just started today, perhaps it'd be a good idea to see what you think of the hobby/game by participating (finding a few caches), before investing money in it.

The free app's a good start.

If you find it fun, then come back for others opinions about any benifits premium membership may provide.

9.2k · January 20, 2015

Caching with a Phone or GPS?

High count cache finder, or one-off cache now and again?

6.1k · January 20, 2015

Don't have any idea why you would want a premium membership if you just joined today and haven't found anything yet. Perhaps if you found a few caches first, you might realize its benefits.

6.1k · January 20, 2015

Some of the benefits of being PM are really useful, but many people get along fine with a basic membership. If I was in your position I would stay with the basic membership for now, there will be some things which take a bit more effort but nothing too bad. When you've been doing it for several months you will gain an idea of how much the other features are worth.

For the record the biggest features for me are Pocket Queries to download thousands of caches to my GPS in one go, use of API enabled apps to allow me to access caches live in the field from a phone, and Email notifications about caches.

2.4k · January 20, 2015

I had a PM, but now I'm a basic member.

The things I liked and miss:

- Notification of new caches in my area

- Seeing PMO cache descriptions. It drives me batty when people post a link to a cache on here, and I can't see what they're talking about. :laughing: Also, the nearest good TB Hotel is PMO, and I drop TBs there a lot. I have to back-door log my note to drop the TB, and I can't see beforehand what TBs are already in the cache before I get there.

The things that I found don't matter:

- Pocket Queries. I only say this because I use the Android app That Shall Not Be Named, and I can download batches of caches onto my phone from that.

- Bookmarks. I can make lists on my phone, so the ones on the website doesn't matter that much.

*shrug* It depends a lot on what app or GPS you're using, I think. I couldn't do half of what I do with other apps.

7.3k · January 20, 2015

I'm new to these forums and have read all the rules about geocaching and premium membership, so I'd like to find out from other geocachers - do you pay for the premium membership and if so, is it worth it? I don't have a lot of money, to the point where I have to tightly control my monthly budget, and $30/year comes out to $2.50 a month. That may not be a lot to some people, but when you're counting every dollar, you want to be sure each and every one is going towards a necessity. So I'm curious how many people treat this as a "must-have" or if it is possible to fully enjoy geocaching without paying that recurring fee.

I apologize in advance to Groundspeak if this question or any responses end up criticizing their revenue stream or business model. That is not my intent here - just looking for opinions other users.

I wouldn't even thinking of paying for Premium Membership the first day I joined. It took a few years before I decided that it would be worthwhile.

It's completely possible to enjoy caching without the PM, and loads of people do just that.

The perks of PM will only be of importance to you once you've been at it for a while. And even then, some perks will be more important than others. For instance, we don't use the Pocket Queries that so many others say is the number one reason for them.

Help Center → Premium Membership

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.book&id=5

You didn't mention if you use a phone for caching. If you use Groundspeak's apps, there will be different functions available on the apps, depending on whether you are a PM or a Basic Member, whether you use the free Intro app or the paid app.

http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.book&id=12

B.

3.8k · January 20, 2015

I'm new to these forums and have read all the rules about geocaching and premium membership, so I'd like to find out from other geocachers - do you pay for the premium membership and if so, is it worth it? I don't have a lot of money, to the point where I have to tightly control my monthly budget, and $30/year comes out to $2.50 a month. That may not be a lot to some people, but when you're counting every dollar, you want to be sure each and every one is going towards a necessity. So I'm curious how many people treat this as a "must-have" or if it is possible to fully enjoy geocaching without paying that recurring fee.

I apologize in advance to Groundspeak if this question or any responses end up criticizing their revenue stream or business model. That is not my intent here - just looking for opinions other users.

I agree with others. Actually try geocaching first. If you don't like it, it won't matter what the cost of benifits are if you don't use it.

I have a premium membership and I think it's worth it. $30 a year really isn't that much. You did say every dollar counts, well start saving. A dollar a day for the next month then if you want get the membership. If you like geocaching buy lunch, a new book, or keep saving that dollar a day.

You can also get a 3 month membership for $10.

January 20, 2015

I just want to add that it depends on your area. I have cached in a number of areas, but 2 totally struck me as different.

1. Williamsburg, VA. There were almost no premium caches, so I am not sure if a premium account is even worth it.

2. Martinsburg, WV. Without a premium account, you are missing out on some of the coolest caches around.

If you can, find a friend with a premium account and see if it is worthwhile in your area. Go to an event and see what other folks in your area think. Since you are new, find all of the non-premium caches in your area and then upgrade if the hobby is for you.

January 20, 2015

I cached for a year with the basic membership and intro app on my phone, no worries. I just went to a place that I wanted to explore, with cell phone signal.

Then I got a whole new level of obsessive, and upgraded my membership and app. It's far more intensive, but not necassary to have a decent shot at geocaching to see what you think.

4.5k · January 20, 2015

I cached for a year with the basic membership and intro app on my phone, no worries. I just went to a place that I wanted to explore, with cell phone signal.

Then I got a whole new level of obsessive, and upgraded my membership and app. It's far more intensive, but not necassary to have a decent shot at geocaching to see what you think.

As others have stated, i'd wait until you have found a few caches. For now, you can find lots of, usually easier, caches if you're using the free app. If you're like some, the bug will bite you and you'll find yourself wanting to find many and/or more variety. A premium membership helps with this by allowing you to see premium member only caches, to see more difficult caches, and to run pocket queries (provides lots of ways to filter for a list of caches you may be interested in). There are other benefits to being PMO but for me, these are the most important. If you do get the bug, then try it for a month to see if it benefits you any.

January 20, 2015

Wow, lots of replies already! Thank you all that took the time to reply. Sorry that I missed some info in my original post.

I have gone geocaching with friends and I know that it is fun and I like it, but I would only be a casual player, using just a phone. So my real question is...if I don't go PM will I have trouble? Like for example, if I want to deploy a cache in a park with lots of premium caches, will I be able to see them to know where to put my cache a safe distance away? Or am I flying blind without PM enabled?

I would never use PQ's or any of those advanced features. I've always been told that geocaching is a free activity but it's starting to sound like I have to pay a couple bucks a month just to see all the caches. I know someone said to start saving, but I'm going to be honest - there are plenty of completely free gps-style games out there, so I don't want to start a new hobby that just ends up making a company rich. It's kind of a principle thing too, ya know? Maybe if I was rich I wouldn't care, but alas that is not the case.

3.8k · January 20, 2015

I just want to add that it depends on your area. I have cached in a number of areas, but 2 totally struck me as different.

1. Williamsburg, VA. There were almost no premium caches, so I am not sure if a premium account is even worth it.

2. Martinsburg, WV. Without a premium account, you are missing out on some of the coolest caches around.

If you can, find a friend with a premium account and see if it is worthwhile in your area. Go to an event and see what other folks in your area think. Since you are new, find all of the non-premium caches in your area and then upgrade if the hobby is for you.

You do know that there are more, and better things to a premium membership then PMO caches. Those are generally considered then last on the list of advantages. Top of the list are pocket queries, and notifications. And even if a basic member finds a PMO cache, (they could be caching with a premium member) they are still allowed to log the caches.

January 20, 2015

You do know that there are more, and better things to a premium membership then PMO caches. Those are generally considered then last on the list of advantages. Top of the list are pocket queries, and notifications. And even if a basic member finds a PMO cache, (they could be caching with a premium member) they are still allowed to log the caches.

PQs are good, statistics are good, notifications are ok if you like being FTF, different ways to sort on the find a cache page is useful, but the caches themselves are the biggest draw for me. In my area, the PMO caches aren't any better than the non-PMO caches. In other places, the premium caches are much better and worth the $30 a year. Sure you could be a basic member and mooch off a premium member, but I'm not going to do that.

I just wanted to add that even though the PMO caches aren't any better than the non-PMO, that there are a lot of PMO caches around my area. So just having the premium membership for the increased number of caches is worth it.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Zepp914

9.2k · January 20, 2015

I have gone geocaching with friends and I know that it is fun and I like it, but I would only be a casual player, using just a phone. So my real question is...if I don't go PM will I have trouble? Like for example, if I want to deploy a cache in a park with lots of premium caches, will I be able to see them to know where to put my cache a safe distance away? Or am I flying blind without PM enabled?

I would never use PQ's or any of those advanced features. I've always been told that geocaching is a free activity but it's starting to sound like I have to pay a couple bucks a month just to see all the caches. I know someone said to start saving, but I'm going to be honest - there are plenty of completely free gps-style games out there, so I don't want to start a new hobby that just ends up making a company rich. It's kind of a principle thing too, ya know? Maybe if I was rich I wouldn't care, but alas that is not the case.

Groundspeak do the free app. As a Basic Member you get 3 easy traditional caches close by.

Groundspeaks PAID app -one off payment- will give you caches of any type.

BOTH exclude Premium Member caches.

On the web site, when you start to fill out a cache page to set one, the areas that are clear of caches will be shown. (But not the locations of stages of multi caches, or their final location, nor the final location of Unknown/Puzzle caches. Not even Premium Members can see them.)

Premium Membership on the free app will allow you unlimited numbers of traditional caches including PM caches.

Premium Membership on the paid app will show all caches, including PM caches.

Using a phone, PQs are not a necessity, lists can be saved to the phone for when you don't have phone reception.

DONT rush into hiding a cache, learn how to use the app!

When you do hide your first cache, take LOTS of readings for the coordinates!

HAVE FUN!

January 20, 2015

By all means give it a try for a while for free and then consider PM. As for me, PM was not so much what I got from membership, as what can I give back to a hobby I really enjoy, supporting the infrastructure of the Geocaching website etc. Of course I do enjoy the benefits, mostly PQs. Best wishes as you learn more.

7.5k · January 20, 2015

Like for example, if I want to deploy a cache in a park with lots of premium caches, will I be able to see them to know where to put my cache a safe distance away? Or am I flying blind without PM enabled?

Cache ownership requires that you get accurate coordinates. Not so easy with a phone. You need a newer cell phone with a good gps and a good GPS app that will mark your position. You need to understand how to average coordinates. Also investing a little in a quality cache is important. To provide a nice experience for the majority of finders you'll want a watertight container. Generally cheap or free containers like dollar store and recycled kitchen/food containers make poor choices. Also, wait a couple of months before getting into cache ownership. Let the honeymoon phase wear off. Read up on the guidelines. Find a few caches to see what works and what doesn't. If you are still interested after a couple of months of finding a variety of cache types and sizes, you will be better prepared.

January 20, 2015

Groundspeak do the free app. As a Basic Member you get 3 easy traditional caches close by

Here's a correction. There is a semi recent update for the intro that shows all traditional caches for wherever you want. You are now not limited to 3. No more gray dots. Hurrah!

7.8k · January 20, 2015

Groundspeak do the free app. As a Basic Member you get 3 easy traditional caches close by

Here's a correction. There is a semi recent update for the intro that shows all traditional caches for wherever you want. You are now not limited to 3. No more gray dots. Hurrah!

I just tried logging into the Intro app as a Basic member to test this out, and that isn't what I saw. While I was able to view the details of 6 nearby Traditionals, which is possibly an increase over the previous 3, all other caches showed as grey dots and the message "Walk closer or upgrade to Geocaching Premium".

I should point out that as a Premium Member, you'll see all Traditionals in the Intro app. I suspect that the change in behaviour you saw was actually related to upgrading to Premium, not an update to the app.

January 21, 2015

Groundspeak do the free app. As a Basic Member you get 3 easy traditional caches close by

Here's a correction. There is a semi recent update for the intro that shows all traditional caches for wherever you want. You are now not limited to 3. No more gray dots. Hurrah!

I just tried logging into the Intro app as a Basic member to test this out, and that isn't what I saw. While I was able to view the details of 6 nearby Traditionals, which is possibly an increase over the previous 3, all other caches showed as grey dots and the message "Walk closer or upgrade to Geocaching Premium".

I should point out that as a Premium Member, you'll see all Traditionals in the Intro app. I suspect that the change in behaviour you saw was actually related to upgrading to Premium, not an update to the app.

Huh, I swore that before I got my premium membership, I could see all of the ones around.

2.9k · January 21, 2015

I know someone said to start saving, but I'm going to be honest - there are plenty of completely free gps-style games out there, so I don't want to start a new hobby that just ends up making a company rich. It's kind of a principle thing too, ya know?

If that is your attitude, you might as well quit now. The money for premium membership that we spend gives us features that are very well worth the money spent. The money for premium membership is also a way to give back and help support a company and in turn a site that allows us to play this awesome game. So what if they make some money? They are a business, so they are entitled to make a profit like any other.

Maybe if I was rich I wouldn't care, but alas that is not the case.

Do you drive/bike while caching? Do you cache with a cell phone and as such incur a monthly bill for the use of that phone? How do you engage in this game? No matter how you are doing it, you're spending money. If you're already spending money one way or another, what's another $30 a year to not only enhance your game but also be a supporting member? I don't buy that hogwash that there's apparently not enough money to spend $2.50 a month, yet you can drive/bike while caching and use a cell phone while making monthly payments on it.

5.7k · January 21, 2015

I really enjoy making my hides PMO.

1.3k · January 21, 2015

Others have pretty much covered the topic... If you use a phone, you probably don't need PM to enjoy geocaching.

If you use a GPSr (handheld GPS), a PM is an almost needed item (ways around it but painstaking)

I do the 30 bucks a year thing because I support the website but yes, the 30 bucks for me is not pocket change.

30 bucks is not making the company rich, they haven't raised their price of premium memberships in the 13 years it's been available. How many other things in life can you say that about???? But still, 30 bucks to some including me is an investment and I do have to budget for it.

Anyhow, try it out first, then you can decide if it is right for you.

3.8k · January 21, 2015

I've always been told that geocaching is a free activity but it's starting to sound like I have to pay a couple bucks a month just to see all the caches. I know someone said to start saving, but I'm going to be honest - there are plenty of completely free gps-style games out there, so I don't want to start a new hobby that just ends up making a company rich. It's kind of a principle thing too, ya know? Maybe if I was rich I wouldn't care, but alas that is not the case.

It can be free, or very cheaply. It's up to you- you are not required to pay for the app, the premium membership, travel, or to put caches out. You can, and many do. But you need to decide if it's worth it. And yes there are free games. There's the QR code game. It's a free download, but you can pay for special features. Oh, you also need something to download it to. Pretty much any hobby makes someone money. Even stamp collecting- someone's getting paid to make those stamps. Someone's getting paid to distribute them. Someone's getting paid to sell them. Someone's buying them. Good luck with finding something that doesn't make anybody money....

15.3k · January 21, 2015

I've always been told that geocaching is a free activity but it's starting to sound like I have to pay a couple bucks a month just to see all the caches.

This isn't Pokemon. You don't gotta find 'em all. And you don't gotta see 'em all. I know basic members who do just fine viewing the caches that they can see as basic members.

And when they're with a premium member and find a PMO cache together, then they can log the PMO cache just fine too.

January 21, 2015

I've always been told that geocaching is a free activity but it's starting to sound like I have to pay a couple bucks a month just to see all the caches.
This isn't Pokemon. You don't gotta find 'em all. And you don't gotta see 'em all. I know basic members who do just fine viewing the caches that they can see as basic members.

And when they're with a premium member and find a PMO cache together, then they can log the PMO cache just fine too.

Great analogy!

January 21, 2015

Wait a minute, you're saying if I become a premium member, I still have to pay $10 for the app?!?! If I'm paying a recurring fee, that app should be free! To me that is outrageous, so I did a little google search on Groundspeak profits, and here was the first article that came up:

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-guys-sold-t-shirts-to-turn-their-hobby-into-one-of-the-hottest-web-businesses-in-seattle-2011-7

So basically I pay $10 for an app and $2.50 a month so that Groundspeak can give their employees free ski lift tickets and free food? How can some of you honestly sit there and defend this company??? Yeah sure many of you said that's not a lot of money, but multiply it against how many geocachers are out there and you can start to see why they can afford all of those perks. And the converse of that argument is also true - if they don't make their money from subscriptions and app sales, then why charge it at all? Many companies (I will list some below) offer free apps and free play, and you only have to pay if you want special stuff. It's a great way to get people hooked on a game and make them WANT to give their money away. $10 upfront for an app these days is an exorbitant fee and a barrier to people struggling like me.

Someone said it was hogwash that I could afford a cell phone and not the PM fees? Please do me a favor and google freedompop. They provide free cell phone service (data AND voice) on the sprint backbone. I've been using it for almost a year and can vouch that it is truly $0 per month. Yes I have a bike (got it very cheap from a police auction), and that is also free/month, plus it keeps me in shape. So you sir or madam are WRONG because there are ways to enjoy life without forking over money to rich companies every month. I would argue that it is foolish of you to do so.

I talked to more friends about this, and several have said I should check out the following: opencaching, Ingress, and Munzee. I checked them out and they are truly FREE. As in you enjoy the entire game without paying a nickel, not for the app and definitely not per month. So let me ask all of you who defended Groundspeak - how is it that these companies can offer their games for free and still be profitable? Something to think about next time you fork over your $30.

I will take the advice of one of the responses - if this is my attitude, I should just quit now. You're dadgum right this is my attitude because I work hard for my money and I'm not about to just hand it over so a rich company get richer from a game that is supposed to be free. Shame on all of you PM's for supporting such a travesty.

If this post gets locked and deleted in a tyrannical attempt to smother dissention and free thinking, I urge anyone that does read this to continue talking about this. Remember they can't censor you all and maybe if enough people raise the alarm, the company will rethink their business model.

Until that happens, I'll spend my time supporting other hobbies. My thanks to everyone who responded and tried to be helpful, and I apologize if I offended anyone. I've been through some tough times and seeing that article just made my blood boil. I hope I got at least one person to think about it.

9.2k · January 21, 2015

Wait a minute, you're saying if I become a premium member, I still have to pay $10 for the app?!?! If I'm paying a recurring fee, that app should be free! To me that is outrageous...

A lot of Premium Members don't use phones to cache, why should they pay 'extra' on their membership, for something they don't -can't- use?

If you use one of the other apps (non-Groundspeak) why shouldn't they have some payment for the work they put in developing the app, just because you are a Premium Member of Groundspeak?

2.4k · January 21, 2015

Use a free app. There are good ones, especially if you have an Android phone.

You CAN do this for free. Trust me.

Edited January 21, 2015 by TriciaG

January 21, 2015

This may sound stupid to others but the primary reason I have a Premium Membership is because I take detailed notes on every find and I do that from my phone while in the field. They are immediately uploaded to my personal notes area on the listing page and they help me with my log at the end of the day. Not to mention the many PAF calls. I rarely use PQ's and just download an area for offline usage when I have reception. The only other reason is to find Premium Member hides.

6.1k · January 21, 2015

Wait a minute, you're saying if I become a premium member, I still have to pay $10 for the app?!?! If I'm paying a recurring fee, that app should be free! To me that is outrageous, so I did a little google search on Groundspeak profits, and here was the first article that came up:

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-guys-sold-t-shirts-to-turn-their-hobby-into-one-of-the-hottest-web-businesses-in-seattle-2011-7

So basically I pay $10 for an app and $2.50 a month so that Groundspeak can give their employees free ski lift tickets and free food? How can some of you honestly sit there and defend this company??? Yeah sure many of you said that's not a lot of money, but multiply it against how many geocachers are out there and you can start to see why they can afford all of those perks. And the converse of that argument is also true - if they don't make their money from subscriptions and app sales, then why charge it at all? Many companies (I will list some below) offer free apps and free play, and you only have to pay if you want special stuff. It's a great way to get people hooked on a game and make them WANT to give their money away. $10 upfront for an app these days is an exorbitant fee and a barrier to people struggling like me.

Someone said it was hogwash that I could afford a cell phone and not the PM fees? Please do me a favor and google freedompop. They provide free cell phone service (data AND voice) on the sprint backbone. I've been using it for almost a year and can vouch that it is truly $0 per month. Yes I have a bike (got it very cheap from a police auction), and that is also free/month, plus it keeps me in shape. So you sir or madam are WRONG because there are ways to enjoy life without forking over money to rich companies every month. I would argue that it is foolish of you to do so.

I talked to more friends about this, and several have said I should check out the following: opencaching, Ingress, and Munzee. I checked them out and they are truly FREE. As in you enjoy the entire game without paying a nickel, not for the app and definitely not per month. So let me ask all of you who defended Groundspeak - how is it that these companies can offer their games for free and still be profitable? Something to think about next time you fork over your $30.

I will take the advice of one of the responses - if this is my attitude, I should just quit now. You're dadgum right this is my attitude because I work hard for my money and I'm not about to just hand it over so a rich company get richer from a game that is supposed to be free. Shame on all of you PM's for supporting such a travesty.

If this post gets locked and deleted in a tyrannical attempt to smother dissention and free thinking, I urge anyone that does read this to continue talking about this. Remember they can't censor you all and maybe if enough people raise the alarm, the company will rethink their business model.

Until that happens, I'll spend my time supporting other hobbies. My thanks to everyone who responded and tried to be helpful, and I apologize if I offended anyone. I've been through some tough times and seeing that article just made my blood boil. I hope I got at least one person to think about it.

Geocaching is completely free. Premium membership is completely unnecessary, and so is the $10 app.

Seems rather odd that you want the completely unnecessary premium membership right away, and then complain about it. There are thousands of people who have been geocaching for years without any premium membership, smartphone, or attitude.

13.7k · January 21, 2015

Geocaching is completely free. Premium membership is completely unnecessary, and so is the $10 app.

Seems rather odd that you want the completely unnecessary premium membership right away, and then complain about it.

There are thousands of people who have been geocaching for years without any premium membership, smartphone, or attitude.

+1

2.6k · January 21, 2015

Geez,, chill out a minute. You can Geocache without a Premium membership. You can geocache with a free app. Premium membership has some benefits that I and many others consider to be worth $30.00 per year, and I have a job and can easily afford it. . If you don't agree, don't buy it, simple as that. No point attacking the intelligence or morals of others who appreciate and are willing to pay for the added benefits. So please just stick to Geocaching and spare us the progressive "everything should be free" political rambling.

January 21, 2015

I mentioned above - I sucessfully cached for a year without paying a cent.

I'm pleased Groundspeak looks after their employee's, it helps ensure a high quality game thta should be around for a very long time. They sound like an amazing company to work for.

I doubt this thread will be locked, it highlights loyalty/enjoyment of long-timers, and a ton of advice on how to play a free game.

Edited January 21, 2015 by FourFunKiwis

7.3k · January 21, 2015

Why on earth would someone have such a hissy-fit over something they don't need to pay anything to play?

As has been said numerous times...you don't need to pay for PM, you don't need to pay for an app, and can still go geocaching.

We weren't PM for years, don't own a smartphone, and yet still managed to find geocaches.

Have fun with opencaching. *snicker*

and yeah, if you want to drive up to a sticker with a barcode, have fun with those munzees. *yawn*

A much better option would be to look into Letterboxing, perhaps.

It's always interesting to me that people can get all bent out of shape over one or two particular posts, and completely ignore others. Sad.

This ranting and raving about Groundspeak is a joke. There are a lot of other companies that charge for a "premium membership". Geez, I know of a quilting company that gives some free patterns out, but you get more if you pay them for a membership. Okay, so I buy their fabric, and they still want me to pay for a "premium membership"? Yeah, sure. :rolleyes:

B.

9.2k · January 21, 2015

...

and yeah, if you want to drive up to a sticker with a barcode, have fun with those munzees. *yawn*

...

Actually, given the choice of 'scan a sticker' stuck at waist or head height, or find the film pot at the base of the post, that most of the local dogs use to mark their territory...

I know which I prefer...

7.8k · January 21, 2015

So let me ask all of you who defended Groundspeak - how is it that these companies can offer their games for free and still be profitable?

Apparently you didn't look into these companies very thoroughly. Two of the games/websites you mention were created by large companies who make most of their revenue from other avenues. The other has a similar "freemium" model to Geocaching.com, where you can play for free and pay to get access to additional features.

January 21, 2015

Groundspeak do the free app. As a Basic Member you get 3 easy traditional caches close by

Here's a correction. There is a semi recent update for the intro that shows all traditional caches for wherever you want. You are now not limited to 3. No more gray dots. Hurrah!

I just tried logging into the Intro app as a Basic member to test this out, and that isn't what I saw. While I was able to view the details of 6 nearby Traditionals, which is possibly an increase over the previous 3, all other caches showed as grey dots and the message "Walk closer or upgrade to Geocaching Premium".

I should point out that as a Premium Member, you'll see all Traditionals in the Intro app. I suspect that the change in behaviour you saw was actually related to upgrading to Premium, not an update to the app.

It seems I'm under attack so I'll resort to some of your methods of quoting specific statements and making snide remarks. The above states that someone tried testing it as "free" user and were severely limited. Those of you stating you can play this game completely and for FREE using the tools Groundspeak provides are WRONG. Yes I know there are "unofficial" tools you can use, but that's not my point. Why should I have to load a shady app from an unknown developer to play a game that's supposed to be free? I'm not asking for "everything to be free", I just want Groundspeak to re-evaluate their business model and realize charging up front and monthly fees can alienate some consumers, while there is plenty of money to be made in selling premium services to the elite and letting the casual users play free.

<snide remark on>And this isn't a "hissy fit" - I have the right to an opinion, if you and your elitist attitude don't agree, that's fine, but don't demean me or try to discredit my opinion in the process.<snide remark off>

2.9k · January 21, 2015

Hmmm...

The OP joined yesterday, has no hides or finds and almost immediately attacks premium membership, those who use it and Groundspeak itself?

It sure smells in here...

2.9k · January 21, 2015

<snide remark on>And this isn't a "hissy fit" - I have the right to an opinion, if you and your elitist attitude don't agree, that's fine, but don't demean me or try to discredit my opinion in the process.<snide remark off>

Add the attacks on "elitist" members to my reasoning above.

January 21, 2015

Wait a minute, you're saying if I become a premium member, I still have to pay $10 for the app?!?! If I'm paying a recurring fee, that app should be free! To me that is outrageous, so I did a little google search on Groundspeak profits, and here was the first article that came up:

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-guys-sold-t-shirts-to-turn-their-hobby-into-one-of-the-hottest-web-businesses-in-seattle-2011-7

So basically I pay $10 for an app and $2.50 a month so that Groundspeak can give their employees free ski lift tickets and free food? How can some of you honestly sit there and defend this company??? Yeah sure many of you said that's not a lot of money, but multiply it against how many geocachers are out there and you can start to see why they can afford all of those perks. And the converse of that argument is also true - if they don't make their money from subscriptions and app sales, then why charge it at all? Many companies (I will list some below) offer free apps and free play, and you only have to pay if you want special stuff. It's a great way to get people hooked on a game and make them WANT to give their money away. $10 upfront for an app these days is an exorbitant fee and a barrier to people struggling like me.

Someone said it was hogwash that I could afford a cell phone and not the PM fees? Please do me a favor and google freedompop. They provide free cell phone service (data AND voice) on the sprint backbone. I've been using it for almost a year and can vouch that it is truly $0 per month. Yes I have a bike (got it very cheap from a police auction), and that is also free/month, plus it keeps me in shape. So you sir or madam are WRONG because there are ways to enjoy life without forking over money to rich companies every month. I would argue that it is foolish of you to do so.

I talked to more friends about this, and several have said I should check out the following: opencaching, Ingress, and Munzee. I checked them out and they are truly FREE. As in you enjoy the entire game without paying a nickel, not for the app and definitely not per month. So let me ask all of you who defended Groundspeak - how is it that these companies can offer their games for free and still be profitable? Something to think about next time you fork over your $30.

I will take the advice of one of the responses - if this is my attitude, I should just quit now. You're dadgum right this is my attitude because I work hard for my money and I'm not about to just hand it over so a rich company get richer from a game that is supposed to be free. Shame on all of you PM's for supporting such a travesty.

If this post gets locked and deleted in a tyrannical attempt to smother dissention and free thinking, I urge anyone that does read this to continue talking about this. Remember they can't censor you all and maybe if enough people raise the alarm, the company will rethink their business model.

Until that happens, I'll spend my time supporting other hobbies. My thanks to everyone who responded and tried to be helpful, and I apologize if I offended anyone. I've been through some tough times and seeing that article just made my blood boil. I hope I got at least one person to think about it.

Boy, that escalated quickly!

January 21, 2015

A much better option would be to look into Letterboxing, perhaps.

Thank you Pup Patrol for mentioning this in your post. The rest of it was mildly offensive and elitest, but at least this part was constructive. I read up on letterboxing...the website and database usage seems to be completely free. How is that? According to many of the comments here, to make it a fun game the free mode needs to be crippled and you should have to pay to really enjoy the game. So does this mean someone needs to open up a company based on commercializing letterboxing and make millions off what is supposed to be a free activity? That seems to be modus operendi here and it sounds like many of you would have no problem with that.

Sorry for the sarcasm folks but I was getting tired of people taking cheap shots and not realizing how silly they sound. If these people are your representatives for Groundspeak's Geocaching Community then now I'm realizing I wouldn't want to join you even if it was free. My first couple posts were as polite as could be, and were met with rudeness and condescension. Good luck with your game, I'm off to find one that actually wants new players to join.

7.8k · January 21, 2015

It seems I'm under attack so I'll resort to some of your methods of quoting specific statements and making snide remarks.

To be clear, with a couple of possible exceptions, the majority of the posts in this discussion have been attempting to provide you with useful information. Any attitude you have received was likely triggered by a similar attitude initiated by you. We've tried to be helpful, but it seems like you've already made your mind up and nothing we say will change your mind. You're free to have your own opinion of this website, but some of us feel you may be basing it on flawed information and assumptions. We're just trying to give you the necessary information so you can make an informed decision.

Yes, there are limitations if you play for free. That's the way this site (and many others) work. It certainly isn't impossible to play for free, though. If you read through this discussion again, you'll see several cachers who cached for years without paying, so it's definitely viable. As for shady apps, most of the "unofficial" apps are approved by Groundspeak to access information from their database and are perfectly safe to use.

If you'll only consider playing a game if you get complete and unlimited access using official tools for free, then I'm sorry to say that this website isn't for you. Millions have decided to use it, but it can never be a perfect fit for everyone. Unfortunately, it seems that your specific situation and opinion just don't mesh with what this website has to offer. That's nobody's fault. The game just isn't for everyone.

3.4k · January 21, 2015

It seems I'm under attack

Here we go again. Someone has to take any disagreement as a personal attack. <sigh>

I'm outa here.

January 21, 2015

Hmmm...

The OP joined yesterday, has no hides or finds and almost immediately attacks premium membership, those who use it and Groundspeak itself?

It sure smells in here...

Ahh and now the discrediting begins. Bravo, brilliant debating tactic when you don't have an argument. But please, just stop with the attacks and let this post die. I'm sorry I ever started it but hopefully it helps your other new players realize what they are in for.

2.9k · January 21, 2015

Hmmm...

The OP joined yesterday, has no hides or finds and almost immediately attacks premium membership, those who use it and Groundspeak itself?

It sure smells in here...

Ahh and now the discrediting begins. Bravo, brilliant debating tactic when you don't have an argument. But please, just stop with the attacks and let this post die. I'm sorry I ever started it but hopefully it helps your other new players realize what they are in for.

Really? How else is one supposed to interpret it? You come in fairly benign but very quickly escalate into a rampage about all things premium, the people who use it, the company who runs it, the "elitist" attitudes of people responding and so on?

Spare me.

5.7k · January 21, 2015

Edited January 21, 2015 by Manville Possum Hunters

January 21, 2015

It seems I'm under attack so I'll resort to some of your methods of quoting specific statements and making snide remarks.

To be clear, with a couple of possible exceptions, the majority of the posts in this discussion have been attempting to provide you with useful information. Any attitude you have received was likely triggered by a similar attitude initiated by you. We've tried to be helpful, but it seems like you've already made your mind up and nothing we say will change your mind. You're free to have your own opinion of this website, but some of us feel you may be basing it on flawed information and assumptions. We're just trying to give you the necessary information so you can make an informed decision.

Yes, there are limitations if you play for free. That's the way this site (and many others) work. It certainly isn't impossible to play for free, though. If you read through this discussion again, you'll see several cachers who cached for years without paying, so it's definitely viable. As for shady apps, most of the "unofficial" apps are approved by Groundspeak to access information from their database and are perfectly safe to use.

If you'll only consider playing a game if you get complete and unlimited access using official tools for free, then I'm sorry to say that this website isn't for you. Millions have decided to use it, but it can never be a perfect fit for everyone. Unfortunately, it seems that your specific situation and opinion just don't mesh with what this website has to offer. That's nobody's fault. The game just isn't for everyone.

Thank you A-Team, this is the nicest post by far. And you're absolutely right that many of the posts tried to be helpful. Unfortunately some did not and those bad apples really soured this experience. If you reread my posts, I apologized if my viewpoints offended anyone, so I insist that it was never my goal to trigger all of those defensive responses. As your last paragraph states, we can just agree to disagree, no need for calling my post hogwash or a "hissy-fit" or saying I smell with a picture of a sock monkey. That's just plain rude.

7.8k · January 21, 2015

Edit: Never mind...

Edited January 21, 2015 by The A-Team

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