+crazypig88 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The title kind of says it all. I have a hide a key container that I plan on turning into a geocache and I was wondering if you think that the log would need a plastic bag. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The title kind of says it all. I have a hide a key container that I plan on turning into a geocache and I was wondering if you think that the log would need a plastic bag. Yep! Both the rectangular and oval ones do not stay dry. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I haven't come across any waterproof hide-a-key container yet, so yes. Even the one Groundspeak sells looks like a generic non waterproof container. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 We had one once and thought Rite In Rain strips would help, as on maintenance runs the baggy was always left open anyway. Turned out many folks did't know the RIR paper wipes dry either. Baggy or not, you'll probably get damp log notes. Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 MKH = Poor choice of a geocache container. Quote Link to comment
+ArtieD Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 MKH = Poor choice of a geocache container. I don't think he asked our opinion on the quality of his chosen container. He asked if he'd need a baggie. To that, I say yes. 1 Quote Link to comment
+Manville Possum Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 MKH = Poor choice of a geocache container. I don't think he asked our opinion on the quality of his chosen container. He asked if he'd need a baggie. To that, I say yes. The last gutter snipe I found had a zip-lock on the outside too. Quote Link to comment
+Ladybug Kids Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I believe that if a baggie is required, the wrong container for the location has been chosen. Baggies don't stay intact for very long before the zipper no longer closes or they get holes in them. So, if a magnetic key holder is your container of choice, place it where it is sheltered from the rain/snow and skip the baggie. If you can't shelter the container from the elements, try a different container type. Quote Link to comment
+NYPaddleCacher Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I believe that if a baggie is required, the wrong container for the location has been chosen. Baggies don't stay intact for very long before the zipper no longer closes or they get holes in them. So, if a magnetic key holder is your container of choice, place it where it is sheltered from the rain/snow and skip the baggie. If you can't shelter the container from the elements, try a different container type. This. Choosing the right container for the location is just one piece of creating a "better" cache. A magnetic hide a key or a film pot works fine (although they don't show much creativity) if it's placed somewhere protected by the elements. I've got one under a bridge on a rurual road and I don't recall every seeing a complaint about a wet log on it. Quote Link to comment
+MountainWoods Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 MKH = Poor choice of a geocache container. Doesn't that depend on the surroundings? An MKH inside of an old phone booth is a perfect container. Or in any other such protected place that you can get permission to place a cache. I know of several MKHs in protected places, like an old shed that was used as an automotive repair garage, but which the CO thought would be a good place to put a cache. (Nostalgic!) And so on. Seems like calling it a poor choice is an overly general statement. One of my two hides is in an MKH and it is always perfectly dry when I check it out. (Oh no! I just spilled the beans on one of my caches. Who cares!) 1 Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Skip the baggie. It just gets mangled. The advice to put it in a protected zone is important. Do a test for a couple of weeks. Put the MKH in your intended spot, with a logsheet no baggie. Check on it after 2 weeks (hopefully it will rain at some point). If the logsheets is wet, find a more protected spot. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 One of my first hides was an MKH in a protected location. No baggie. Problem was, over time the "cacher induced migration" led to it being moved out of the original "protected zone" and, after a year and a half with a dry log sheet, it ended up needing to be replaced after getting soaked. Moral of the story, unless it's in a VERY well protected area, expect a non-bagged log to get wet. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Baggies in MKHs are usually/always too big for the container and end up folded and crammed back in. The baggie ends up lasting through maybe 5 visits. Often doesn't get zipped up because the zipped up baggie is a little harder to fold and cram. The logsheet gets crumpled tattered quickly. Lets say you hide it under part of a bridge that's protected from weather and it stays in that section of the bridge for a couple of months. Then someone moves it to a spot that gets rained on. The baggie in the MKH is already 2 months old, torn and tattered. It's not going to protect the logsheet. It could end up holding in the water longer so that the logsheet stays wet/damp longer. If you're going to rely on a baggie maybe one of those drugstore thick plastic little baggies for pills will work best for longer. But I'm guessing those would still need replacing every couple of months if the MKH is in an unprotected spot. An MKH in a spot like this should survive nicely without a baggie: Quote Link to comment
+humboldt flier Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Weelllllllllllllllllll, If you are going to hide it in coastal Humboldt, County, California ... the pat answer would be "you bet your bippy". However I have one in that region which has managed to do fine without a baggie. The old Real Estate Adage comes to mind. "Location, location, location" Best of luck to you. Quote Link to comment
+Mudfrog Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 A baggie won't work for very long in most keyboxes. It just won't hold up to the repeated folding and cramming into the little box. If you do go with a baggie, then try and find a smaller one that is a close fit. Your best bet, if you are insistant on using a keybox, is to place it in a spot that is protected from rain and moisture. Quote Link to comment
+FunnyNose Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 A baggie won't work for very long in most keyboxes. It just won't hold up to the repeated folding and cramming into the little box. Very true. I use National Geographic Adventure Paper in a lot of my caches. It is teslin based product that does not mold. A quick wipe on your pants leg and the log is dry. Pens, Space Pens, Pencils and magic markers all write well on this product. Gel pens however do not. All well prepared cachers should carry various ways of signing logs. The manufactures site says it is for ink jet printers but I have been running it through my Color Laser printer for years with no problems. Quote Link to comment
+kunarion Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I use National Geographic Adventure Paper in a lot of my caches. It is teslin based product that does not mold. A quick wipe on your pants leg and the log is dry. Pens, Space Pens, Pencils and magic markers all write well on this product. Gel pens however do not. All well prepared cachers should carry various ways of signing logs. The manufactures site says it is for ink jet printers but I have been running it through my Color Laser printer for years with no problems. The Nat Geo paper packs I bought are labeled for "both ink jet and laser". For printing, it depends on the ink. I have a nice new Epson XP-810 printer, and the print smears, which never happened on my previous printers (including an Epson RX580). But the printing on the log sheets bleeds, over time in humid containers, and most of the signatures do, too. Some signatures almost vanish over time. And it won't accept signatures in pencil. Rite-in-the-rain paper is laser printed (no ink jet, and accepts pencil, and different pens than Nat Geo does). Around Here (Atlanta, GA) it can develop mold, but I swap it out of my problem containers before that, and recently just use ordinary paper, since I keep such a close eye on them. A sharpie writes on most any sheet, but also may bleed & fade (you never know til it happens), I guess it's dependant on the ink batch. Let either Nat Geo or RIR paper dry completely before using a sharpie or you'll ruin the pen. Anyway, none of the above options are true substitutes for using a container that keeps a dry log. But the special paper doesn't turn to mush, so that's a plus. Most of the wet paper issues in my caches, are in containers that seal very well. People get the log soaking wet, then seal it up, and the next finders make tatters out of the wet paper. I'm testing another desiccant idea, which I'm sure cachers will easily thwart . Maybe I should use MKBs, since they don't seal and at least have a chance to somewhat dry between finds. Edited January 18, 2015 by kunarion Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 A baggie won't work for very long in most keyboxes. It just won't hold up to the repeated folding and cramming into the little box.Very true. I use National Geographic Adventure Paper in a lot of my caches. Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that it's better to use weatherproof paper and a container that will dry out between rain storms, than to use the same container with the log stuffed in a plastic bag that traps water. Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Just place the key holder in an ammo can and you won't need a bag. Quote Link to comment
+Team Hugs Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I believe that if a baggie is required, the wrong container for the location has been chosen. Baggies don't stay intact for very long before the zipper no longer closes or they get holes in them. So, if a magnetic key holder is your container of choice, place it where it is sheltered from the rain/snow and skip the baggie. If you can't shelter the container from the elements, try a different container type. Of course, "sheltered from the elements" can vary over time. Many of the LPCs I've seen use MKHs, with and without bags, and they do okay over time. Then there was last winter here in Michigan, where we got a @#$!-load of snow (more than we normally get). That turned a number of 1/1 LPCs into 1/5s because the snowplows would bury the lamp poles in 5-6 feet of snow. Unsurprisingly, some of those containers got massively wet when the melt happened. I think one of the keys is to choose a bag that is appropriate to the container. Pill baggies are much better for MKHs than sandwich bags, for example. Quote Link to comment
+popokiiti Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Even with a baggie, the log gets wet - mine did. Waterproof match containers are much better. Quote Link to comment
+narcissa Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The log needs a bag, and the container needs a better container. Quote Link to comment
+crazypig88 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 The log needs a bag, and the container needs a better container. Can we turn this thread into a philosophical journey? Is it really you that is finding the cache, or is the cache finding you? Is this real life? Or just fantasy? Quote Link to comment
4wheelin_fool Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The log sheet is metaphorical for a key, opening the doors of new experiences. The key holder symbolizes a lousy container. Quote Link to comment
+Chrysalides Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The log sheet is metaphorical for a key, opening the doors of new experiences. The key holder symbolizes a lousy container. That should be self evident. A key in a key holder does not get used often. I'm hiding my logsheet in a keychain. Quote Link to comment
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