+briansnat Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Storm King Mtn (in the Hudson Valley) was recently re-opened to hikers. It has been closed several years because there was a lot of unexploded ordnance found during a forest fire (the fire set a lot of the stuff off). The mountain had been used by the military as a practice range many years ago. All the trails have been cleared of ordnance and certified clean for 25 feet on either side, but there may still be some of the stuff off trail, so hikers are warned to stay on trail. Since geocachers tend to stray off the trail, it may not be a good idea place caches here, unless they are very close to the trail. If you do place a cache, make sure you warn people about the potential danger if they wander too far off. "Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant Quote Link to comment
BassoonPilot Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 There is signage to this effect at the trailheads. Quote Link to comment
azog Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Took RPG, left 50mm shell. ---------- Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be also be like him. Quote Link to comment
n1niq Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Originally posted by azog:Took RPG, left 50mm shell. QUOTE] LMAO! Quote Link to comment
+mr.magoo Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I hope no souviner hunter goes up there with a metal detector only to find some semi-live ordinance. If something bad where to happen they might close things up, maybe for good! Quote Link to comment
+jonboy Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 The whole park was closed after a fire exploded some ordinance on Crows Nest Mountain, during a fire. The Army Corps of Engineers did a survey of the pattern of distribution of ordinance, and all of it was within a half mile of the border with the West Point Property on Crows Nest. This study was presented at a public hearing in December at the Bear Mt. Inn, which I attended, along with 200 or so other concerned activists. The area where the ordinance was discovered remains closed, even though the trails have been swept 200' on each side of the trails. No one has ever been injured by this ordinance, not even the fire fighters who were there when the explosions occured. Brian, I know you mean well, but uninformed alarmism will only create controversy and draw unwanted attention from authorities looking for a pretext to close the area back down. I would have expected better from you. Quote Link to comment
+Mxyzptlk Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 quote:Brian, I know you mean well, but uninformed alarmism will only create controversy and draw unwanted attention from authorities looking for a pretext to close the area back down. I would have expected better from you. I don't think Brian was setting off an alarm with this post, just a friendly warning. Plus we all know that it really was an alien space craft that crashed there that caused the explosion and closure. Quote Link to comment
+Mxyzptlk Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 I did a little more research on this and Brian's statement is directly from the New York - New Jersey Trail Conference web site in a document called "Storm King Mountain Fact Sheet". There seems to be a conflict within the document. 1. All hiking trails and 25 feet to either side are clear of unexploded ordinance to a depth of one foot. 2. All hiking trails and 1488 acres of parkland are safe for public use with appropriate signage. Don't the trails go through the 1488 acres, making more than 25 feet of either side clear? I'm confused. Somebody straighten me out because I would like to hike the Storm King! Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 quote: Brian, I know you mean well, but uninformed alarmism will only create controversy and draw unwanted attention from authorities looking for a pretext to close the area back down. I would have expected better from you. Uninformed, how? Alarmism? You may be right. I feel differently however. I believe that if the authorities discover people hunting geocaches off trail, it would be more of a threat to keeping the area open than my post. I realize the the entire "threat" was overblown and there never was a real danger to hikers, geocachers, or anybody who uses the area. I thought however that a warning to the geocaching commuinty to avoid placing caches in the area, or take special care if they do, would be beneficial. Geocachers are always looking for new areas to place caches and now that Storm King is open, it is likely that it will draw geocachers. I just wanted to make sure they were aware of the issues. "Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant [This message was edited by BrianSnat on January 14, 2003 at 07:42 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted January 14, 2003 Author Share Posted January 14, 2003 quote: Don't the trails go through the 1488 acres, making more than 25 feet of either side clear? I'm confused. Confused Somebody straighten me out because I would like to hike the Storm King! Chris, As I understand it, the Army Corps checked most trail corridors to 25 feet on each side. These trails are now open for use. The southern portion of the park, adjacent to West Point, remains closed until the trails can be checked. In the open section bushwacking is either prohibited or discouraged (I'm not sure which). "Paternalism is the greatist despotism" - Emmanual Kant Quote Link to comment
+jonboy Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 The parcel of PIPC land generally known as "Storm King" was divided into three zones, zone one being the zone immediately adjacent to the firing range encompassing the flank of Crow's Nest and part of the adjacent ridge, zone two being Storm King Mt. and zone three being that area west of Storm King, across Rt9W. Zones two and three were never surveyed for ordinance because there was never any suggestion of rounds impacting in these areas, as rounds impacting here, would also be impacting the town of Cornwall. Even the US Army couldn't get away with that. The rounds in question are 75 mm howitzer rounds fired in training during WWII, before the constuction of Rt9W, as well as some old cannon balls of civil war vintage fired from the cannon foundry at Cold Spring. Even though the trails were swept, the cost of clearing the entire area was considered prohibitive and it was not done. For this reason the zone containing the Howell Trail in zone one, that is the southern section of the parkland, remains closed. The vast majority of any remaining ordinace will be inert, and according to the specialist hired by the corp for the clean-up, any rounds that still have volatile elements would only pose a danger if placed in a fire or if used as target practice. In the fifty years since this land has been parkland, this fire was the first time that anyone considered possible danger. The West Point training and firing area remains covered with much newer and undoubtedly more volatile unexploded ammunition. I would like to take this opportunity to advise against placing any geocaches here, as well as in the adjacent closed parkland. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 Just curious and I'm not trying to add to the "controversy", but would placing ammo cans or plastic containers be less controversial? I mean this was a military area. Alan Quote Link to comment
+Mopar Posted January 14, 2003 Share Posted January 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Alan2:but would placing ammo cans or plastic containers be less controversial? Hmmmm, looks like we got us a trouble maker! Tae-Kwon-Leap is not a path to a door, but a road leading forever towards the horizon. Quote Link to comment
+jonboy Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 The parcel of land in zone 1 at the south end of the park was the only part of the park that was ever military, and was aquired from West Point in the 50s. Believe it or not, the northern part was agricultural, mostly pastureland. That is why it was originally called Butter Hill. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted January 16, 2003 Share Posted January 16, 2003 Now that the Navy will no longer be bombing Puerto Rico's Vieques Island, will Storm King become again another practice range? What's the biggest ship that could come up the Hudson? Frigate, Cruiser? If we come under attack while caching and have to make a hasty retreat to the Bear Mountain Inn, can we count that as a find? Alan Quote Link to comment
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