A new phenomenon?

[+Chrysalides]

How about this: Sign for FTF with a white crayon, but date with a UV pen, while you ROT13 the whole thing, and then create a running key cipher using an IKEA catalog and English tabula recta, and...

Too much work. If you really want to mess with the next to find, rehide the original cache "better than found" and drop a film canister with a blank log sheet in an open and obvious position.

[+GilkerscleughCachers]

How about this: Sign for FTF with a white crayon, but date with a UV pen, while you ROT13 the whole thing, and then create a running key cipher using an IKEA catalog and English tabula recta, and...

Too much work. If you really want to mess with the next to find, rehide the original cache "better than found" and drop a film canister with a blank log sheet in an open and obvious position.

 

It's rather pointless really. It shouldn't take off over here. We all seem to be honest. And anyway, what does it matter to me, having cached for nearly 2 years and amassed 214 FTFs and in the middle of a 15 month streak of FTFs. It's just petty.

[+Baardaasvoel]

I make special FTF prizes for my cache placements. They are in the form of a pendant on a real stainless steel ball chain. They are designed and made especially for that cache, and are made by a series of processes which yield results that would be difficult and/or expensive to copy.

 

I ask the finder to take a picture of it and post it, which rather solidly establishes them as the First To Find.

 

Now having begun to move up from small to regular size caches, I am equipping them with actual log BOOKS, with printed covers & sewn-in pages, and a prominent space for the FTF signature. Like the FTF prize, they are customized for that particular cache.

 

Someone would have to go to great trouble to modify them without destroying them or leaving them looking "wrong".

 

But that is not the main reason I am doing those. I'm a latecomer to geocaching (mid 2013), and reading of its beginnings and evolution over time, I feel that I have missed out on what could be called the "golden age"; when finding any single cache was a great accomplishment, when you could readily place one in a spectacular location, and so put some real "geo" into the geocache. A time when micros were evil experiments rather than a staple for urban saturation & power trails, when people generally traded UP, and when you didn't have to worry as much about muggles or the bomb squad.

 

Times like those are unlikely to return, and with more and more areas approaching saturation, the shape of future geocaching appears uncertain. But for now, to maybe capture a taste of what once was, I am adding logbooks as actual books, a tangible prize for the First To Find, fairly substantial trades, and if I can find some appropriate & available locales, I am going to *try* to put out some geocaches with some "geo" in them.

 

And when I finally do put out my first micro, it is going to be EVIL!

 

P.S., I currently have 183 finds, and no FTF's.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Baardaasvoel

[+jellis]

I make special FTF prizes for my cache placements. They are in the form of a pendant on a real stainless steel ball chain. They are designed and made especially for that cache, and are made by a series of processes which yield results that would be difficult and/or expensive to copy.

 

I ask the finder to take a picture of it and post it, which rather solidly establishes them as the First To Find.

 

Now having begun to move up from small to regular size caches, I am equipping them with actual log BOOKS, with printed covers & sewn-in pages, and a prominent space for the FTF signature. Like the FTF prize, they are customized for that particular cache.

 

Someone would have to go to great trouble to modify them without destroying them or leaving them looking "wrong".

 

But that is not the main reason I am doing those. I'm a latecomer to geocaching (mid 2013), and reading of its beginnings and evolution over time, I feel that I have missed out on what could be called the "golden age"; when finding any single cache was a great accomplishment, when you could readily place one in a spectacular location, and so put some real "geo" into the geocache. A time when micros were evil experiments rather than a staple for urban saturation & power trails, when people generally traded UP, and when you didn't have to worry as much about muggles or the bomb squad.

 

Times like those are unlikely to return, and with more and more areas approaching saturation, the shape of future geocaching appears uncertain. But for now, to maybe capture a taste of what once was, I am adding logbooks as actual books, a tangible prize for the First To Find, fairly substantial trades, and if I can find some appropriate & available locales, I am going to *try* to put out some geocaches with some "geo" in them.

 

And when I finally do put out my first micro, it is going to be EVIL!

 

P.S., I currently have 183 finds, and no FTF's.

The first part can't be done as a requirementonly a optional. So that can't solve that FTF.

[+MMaru]

We have a few FTF hounds in my parts, but as far as I know, there's none of this sneakiness and drama - in fact, I've known some of our most avid FTF'ers to take newbies out to share the FTF with them.

 

I have a little under 350 finds and six or seven FTFs. I enjoy the thrill of being the first one to find a cache, especially because I know it's a race here. BUT what I really enjoy about it is the comraderie - the only time I've ever run into other cachers (except for once at a gas station) was on the FTF hunt, including my first where a FTF veteran shared the FTF with me. I also picked up a FTF not too long ago that had been published and left unfound for a full day already, even though a lot of our FTF'ers go after a cache as soon as they hear the published cache ping on their phones. I went out after this cache a day or two after it published and was excited to get a FTF! Later, one of the big FTF'ers noted in his log that he and another FTF master found it just an hour after me, but they had deliberately let it sit unfound for a day or two in order to give other people a shot at FTF. So even though we do have a few cachers who really get into the FTF part of the game, they've all been really classy, friendly, and more than willing to share the excitement of a FTF with others.

[knowschad]

Look no further - here's the solution: the right paper, a photo of the log, and the photo uploaded to the log. Never a dispute.

 

Across the river here in PA we have this down to a science.

 

 

Coming in a bit late on this conversation, but since it has been bumped...

 

There is no law that says that the first person to find the cache must sign in the provided "FTF" spot, nor that they must include the date or time. I can't see the entire log in your photograph, so I don't take that as absolute proof.

[+geodarts]

There is no law that says that the first person to find the cache must sign in the provided "FTF" spot, nor that they must include the date or time. I can't see the entire log in your photograph, so I don't take that as absolute proof.

 

I sometimes cross out the ftf spot when signing a blank log on a new cache, and would not upload a photo as proof unless there is a picture I want to take for other reasons. Although I never use the three initials or "claim" anything, I am not aware that there has ever been a controversy when I have signed a blank log. It's not something I would worry about in any event. It's perfectly fine with me if the next ten finders want to claim a first.

Edited April 8, 2015 by geodarts

[knowschad]

There is no law that says that the first person to find the cache must sign in the provided "FTF" spot, nor that they must include the date or time. I can't see the entire log in your photograph, so I don't take that as absolute proof.

 

I sometimes cross out the ftf spot when signing a blank log on a new cache, and would not upload a photo as proof unless there is a picture I want to take for other reasons. Although I never use the three initials or "claim" anything, I am not aware that there has ever been a controversy when I have signed a blank log. It's not something I would worry about in any event. It's perfectly fine with me if the next ten finders want to claim a first.

 

I am very much the same way. I have run out after a few nearby caches to see if I could be the first to find them, but I honestly couldn't tell you what my FTF count is, nor do I care. That isn't the point for me.

[+K13]

For every cache I don't DNF, it's my First Time Finding, so I'm at 100% FTF.

[+L0ne.R]

But for now, to maybe capture a taste of what once was, I am adding logbooks as actual books, a tangible prize for the First To Find, fairly substantial trades, and if I can find some appropriate & available locales, I am going to *try* to put out some geocaches with some "geo" in them.

 

 

 

[+TheFryes]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules. Of course, FTF should never be a requirement for geocaching, but if we create a set of rules that the CO can choose to reference when he/she posts the cache, then any disputes over FTF can be settled by means of those rules.

 

My reasoning for such a thing is this: People have already stated that FTF is a game within a game for some geocachers, and if they want to play that way, then great! Let them do so. However, if you have FTF griefers who keep claiming FTF when they just aren't, that's going to discourage the CO from wanting to start an FTF contest at all in the first place. So, you put a link to the rules in the cache description, and then there should be only one clear FTF winner. Granted, there will still be people who complain, but since the rules were there when they first looked up the cache, they haven't a leg to stand on when things don't go the way they want them to.

 

By the way, I'm brand new at geocaching. Been doing this less than 2 weeks. Having a lot of fun though!

[+worstcaster]

Cheating at geocaching is as effective as cheating at solitare.

[+K13]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules. Of course, FTF should never be a requirement for geocaching, but if we create a set of rules that the CO can choose to reference when he/she posts the cache, then any disputes over FTF can be settled by means of those rules.

 

My reasoning for such a thing is this: People have already stated that FTF is a game within a game for some geocachers, and if they want to play that way, then great! Let them do so. However, if you have FTF griefers who keep claiming FTF when they just aren't, that's going to discourage the CO from wanting to start an FTF contest at all in the first place. So, you put a link to the rules in the cache description, and then there should be only one clear FTF winner. Granted, there will still be people who complain, but since the rules were there when they first looked up the cache, they haven't a leg to stand on when things don't go the way they want them to.

 

By the way, I'm brand new at geocaching. Been doing this less than 2 weeks. Having a lot of fun though!

 

So, are you advocating a "My Cache, My Rules" FTF thing? If so, for my future caches, the rule is you must be naked, except for cowboy boots to claim the FTF. I know that is absurd, but no more so than any other ' FTF rules'.

The first person to find a cache is not an award, it is merely a fact. Cacher X found it first, not Cache Owner says Cacher X broke traffic laws and went in the cemetery at night so Cacher Z is awarded the FTF. It can get a little gray if there is a group of cachers out together. Sometimes they all claim FTF as a part of the group.

I know for sure there have been numerous discussions about the FTF game, search the forums.

[knowschad]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules. Of course, FTF should never be a requirement for geocaching, but if we create a set of rules that the CO can choose to reference when he/she posts the cache, then any disputes over FTF can be settled by means of those rules.

 

My reasoning for such a thing is this: People have already stated that FTF is a game within a game for some geocachers, and if they want to play that way, then great! Let them do so. However, if you have FTF griefers who keep claiming FTF when they just aren't, that's going to discourage the CO from wanting to start an FTF contest at all in the first place. So, you put a link to the rules in the cache description, and then there should be only one clear FTF winner. Granted, there will still be people who complain, but since the rules were there when they first looked up the cache, they haven't a leg to stand on when things don't go the way they want them to.

 

By the way, I'm brand new at geocaching. Been doing this less than 2 weeks. Having a lot of fun though!

 

Nice try, Frye, but it ain't gonna fly! Here's why:

 

(sorry, I just couldn't resist that)

 

First, who is going to come up with these rules? Those of us that post to this forum? How would those rules be enforced, particularly when the cache owner is not one of us that posts to this forum? But more importantly... the FTF is the first one to find the cache and sign the log. The cache owner can not "award" FTF, and somebody else can not "claim" FTF. FTF is a fact, not an opinion or a reward.

[+narcissa]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules.

 

Yeah, that's going to happen.

[+dprovan]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules. Of course, FTF should never be a requirement for geocaching, but if we create a set of rules that the CO can choose to reference when he/she posts the cache, then any disputes over FTF can be settled by means of those rules.

Actually, in my opinion, the CO is the player with the least say in the FTF rules, although of course lots of COs think differently.

[+niraD]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules.

Here you go:

 

1. FTF is whoever is First to Find the cache.

 

There, that wasn't hard, was it?

[+narcissa]

I suggest that we make an "official" "unofficial" list of FTF rules.

Here you go:

 

1. FTF is whoever is First to Find the cache.

 

There, that wasn't hard, was it?

 

But the cache owner told her friend about the cache so she found it before it was published and I ran out to get FTF for nothing. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

[+niraD]

But the cache owner told her friend about the cache so she found it before it was published and I ran out to get FTF for nothing. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

[+narcissa]

But the cache owner told her friend about the cache so she found it before it was published and I ran out to get FTF for nothing. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

 

That's not even the worst part. Turns out she brought a couple of friends with her, and they ALL say they were FTF. Only ONE person found it first. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

[+The A-Team]

But the cache owner told her friend about the cache so she found it before it was published and I ran out to get FTF for nothing. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

That's not even the worst part. Turns out she brought a couple of friends with her, and they ALL say they were FTF. Only ONE person found it first. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

Life isn't fair.

 

[+narcissa]

But the cache owner told her friend about the cache so she found it before it was published and I ran out to get FTF for nothing. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

That's not even the worst part. Turns out she brought a couple of friends with her, and they ALL say they were FTF. Only ONE person found it first. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

Life isn't fair.

 

 

So I think we've agreed on defined FTF rules then. "Life isn't fair" pretty much does the trick.

[+niraD]

So I think we've agreed on defined FTF rules then. "Life isn't fair" pretty much does the trick.

"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."

- Man in Black (The Princess Bride)

[+The A-Team]

But the cache owner told her friend about the cache so she found it before it was published and I ran out to get FTF for nothing. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

That's not even the worst part. Turns out she brought a couple of friends with her, and they ALL say they were FTF. Only ONE person found it first. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

Life isn't fair.

 

So I think we've agreed on defined FTF rules then. "Life isn't fair" pretty much does the trick.

Okay, since it seems like we've agreed on the rules, I'll compile all of them into this one post which the FTF-obsessed COs can link to.

 

Rule #1: FTF is whoever is First to Find the cache.

Rule #2: If you feel anything not covered by Rule #1 is unfair, see Rule #3.

Rule #3: Life isn't fair.

 

I think that about covers it. Good job everybody! You see, sometimes good things can come out of these forums!

[+Ambrosia]

So I think we've agreed on defined FTF rules then. "Life isn't fair" pretty much does the trick.

"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."

- Man in Black (The Princess Bride)

 

"Get used to disappointment."

[+dprovan]

The simpler rule is "If you want to say you are or should have have been FTF, feel free, no one's stopping you."

[+Ben0w]

My official rule book about FTF:

#1 There are no official rules about FTF.

#2 Don't make official rules about FTF.

#3 Life ain't fair.

 

Somewhere out there is a cache about beeing FTF. Every finder can claim FTF, just as long as he/she adds how the FTF was accomplished. There are a lot of ideas not even slightly covered in this discussion. "First FTF after the other" is my favourite...

[+Seaglass Pirates]

A local CO States on their cache pages:

 

"As always we award FTF to all those that find this cache on the first day it is published" which I think is like awwwwwww. So was stood there over the cache. So early it was still dark ... find the log ... Beaten by minutes. Log book was still warm. Doh I had paused to get dressed unlike the finder who had left in their dressing gown.

[+TheFryes]

I guess the idea of laws for FTF is kind of pointless to the lawless, which based on the responses in this thread, is what "normal" geocachers consider FTF nutjobs. People who wake up at midnight and run out in their nightclosthes to be FTF. Slightly unbalanced crowd there. Of course, if you look at it another way, we are all out poking around in tress, lifting up lamppost skirts and kicking over rocks and other crazy things and then we pretend like we're not doing anything absurd when "muggles" appear. Yeah, it was absurd of me to suggest that we set rules for FTF. I retract my original reply.

[+Ben0w]

Yeah, it was absurd of me to suggest that we set rules for FTF. I retract my original reply.

Sorry to say, but you even weren't the first to have this idea.

[+L0ne.R]

I guess the idea of laws for FTF is kind of pointless to the lawless, which based on the responses in this thread, is what "normal" geocachers consider FTF nutjobs. People who wake up at midnight and run out in their nightclosthes to be FTF. Slightly unbalanced crowd there. Of course, if you look at it another way, we are all out poking around in tress, lifting up lamppost skirts and kicking over rocks and other crazy things and then we pretend like we're not doing anything absurd when "muggles" appear. Yeah, it was absurd of me to suggest that we set rules for FTF. I retract my original reply.

 

I actually think FTFers serve a valuable purpose. They are the guinea pigs. They deal with issues, like the cache hasn't been placed yet, the cache is on private property and the angry owner or security guard confronts them, the cache is 500m off.

 

But I think it would be a bad idea for GC to officially recognize the FTF side game. So many disgruntled FTFers would be complaining to Groundspeak and the cache owners and expect something to be done about it.