Is it okay to remove a cache that was archived years ago?

[+Mcpat12]

I live in an area of caches that were archived long ago and were forgotten is it okay to remove them from their locations or is it not good in case if someone wants to find it even though it was archived.

[+wmpastor]

I live in an area of caches that were archived long ago and were forgotten is it okay to remove them from their locations or is it not good in case if someone wants to find it even though it was archived.

They are not there to be found. The CO should get them, but by now they've been abandoned as geolitter.

[+T.D.M.22]

It's not yours. Although unlikely it may be listed on another site, or used for private caching, perhaps a schoolngroup? Also dont worry about people wanting to find archived caches- if they want to find a cache, they should look for a currently listed cache. Why do you want to remove it? To place a new cache there? Well there was a reason it was archived, and obviously not because it went missing. Could be permission issues. Find out why it was archived, and if you think there should be a cache there, then place a new one far enough away, and in a different containe- if the 9th one in an ammo can, specify that yours is a LnL. Or you could even list that cache, at that location, but since it's not yours, there's a chance it could be removed.

[+hzoi]

I live in an area of caches that were archived long ago and were forgotten is it okay to remove them from their locations or is it not good in case if someone wants to find it even though it was archived.

Used to be an easy answer: sure, they had become litter and should be removed (and if useable, recycled into new geocaches).

 

Now there are other geocaching sites out there, and though the geocaching.com listing may have been archived, there's a chance (albeit not a huge one) that the caches are still active on another site. So you may want to contact the owner through their profile (the email link will normally still work) and ask.

 

I've come across archived caches all of twice.

 

First time, I was hunting the final to a multicache in a ruined castle in Germany. I found the final and logged it, then was just poking around and exploring. I saw some rocks covering a hole at the base of a tree and thought, hey, that looks like it might be a geocache. And it was -- it was the final to a multi that had been taken by muggles and then archived. I contacted the owner, and he was very surprised that it had been replaced. He ended up getting the cache listing unarchived (though he had to move the final because of proximity issues with the newer multi), and it's still active today.

 

Second time was a cache that had been archived per National Park Service policy and left behind. The NPS had specifically asked that it be removed, cache owner hadn't been active since 2004. I would have emailed the owner, but it was clear that the NPS wanted it gone, so I didn't bother. I picked it up while logging an earthcache nearby. I ended up recycling it into another cache.

 

The follow up question, which you didn't ask, is whether you can log a find on the archived cache, regardless of what you do with it. The answer is yes: if you find a cache and sign the log, you get to log it online, whether it's active, disabled, or archived.

[+L0ne.R]

What if you want to hide your new cache on the same tree as the old archived cache? The archived cache is hanging on the tree, yours will be in the hollow base of the tree. You could hide it 50 feet away in another tree but this tree has the best unobstructed view of the river. Leave the archived cache or remove it?

[Mr.Yuck]

It's not yours. Although unlikely it may be listed on another site, or used for private caching, perhaps a schoolngroup? Also dont worry about people wanting to find archived caches- if they want to find a cache, they should look for a currently listed cache. Why do you want to remove it? To place a new cache there? Well there was a reason it was archived, and obviously not because it went missing. Could be permission issues. Find out why it was archived, and if you think there should be a cache there, then place a new one far enough away, and in a different containe- if the 9th one in an ammo can, specify that yours is a LnL. Or you could even list that cache, at that location, but since it's not yours, there's a chance it could be removed.

 

As an admin for one of the 4 other U.S. based sites that accept Geocache listings, I can tell you it's almost NEVER the case with them being listed on another site. To put it in perspective, the oldest of these sites? They published 34 caches in the entire world in 2014. And read this while you can, it will probably result in my post being deleted.

 

I agree with T.D.M.22, it's not yours to remove. That seems to be the early consensus, but there are a lot of people out there who would say they're Geo-Litter, and should be removed. Of course I'll just give them my one sentence answer "It's not yours to remove".

[+geodarts]

The cans and bottles I found while hiking around the other day were not mine either, but I removed them. As far as this game goes, "ownership" is loose concept. In some areas where I live, the park administrators have stated that they consider all containers left within the park to be litter. Other public lands define all items left within the area for more than certain periods to be abandoned. An archived box that is wet, damaged, and broken may be nothing more than a box that is wet, damaged, and broken. An archived box left by a person who was in the game for a couple weeks five years ago and has had no visitors since that time may be abandoned. Just because something was once a part of this game does not render it a permanent fixture. Consider the circumstances. Check into it a little if you have doubts. Use your best judgment.

Edited January 4, 2015 by geodarts

[+SwineFlew]

If its on my property, I can.

[+Bear and Ragged]

If in doubt say nothing.

Tell NO-ONE you removed it. Don't even admit to knowing it was there. Or where-ever it was.

 

 

[+captnemo]

If in doubt say nothing.

Tell NO-ONE you removed it. Don't even admit to knowing it was there. Or where-ever it was.

 

 

LOL

 

I would email the CO wait a while then if no answer, it's geolitter I would remove it.

 

I once found a cache with no GC number on it but it was ID'ed as a geocache. Couldn't find it on this site and neither could TBTB and as far as I know it still there, out in the middle of nowhere. Yes I signed the log.

[+L0ne.R]

If in doubt say nothing.

Tell NO-ONE you removed it. Don't even admit to knowing it was there. Or where-ever it was.

 

 

LOL

 

I would email the CO wait a while then if no answer, it's geolitter I would remove it.

 

I once found a cache with no GC number on it but it was ID'ed as a geocache. Couldn't find it on this site and neither could TBTB and as far as I know it still there, out in the middle of nowhere. Yes I signed the log.

 

I have done something similar with abandoned caches. These were broken caches in really bad shape - most quite moldy.

 

I post an NA with photos of the cache to show the reviewer and owner the condition.

I write that I will go back and remove the cache once it is archived.

A month or 2 later when it's archived I remove the remains and place it in my garage.

I leave a note on the cache page saying I have the cache and if the owner would like it, to contact me.

A month later I toss the cache in the trash.

 

There was one cache that was so gross that there's no way I was putting it in my car. Thankfully I could pick up the moldy smelly mess with the point of my hiking stick (i.e. I didn't have to touch it or have it within 3 feet of my body) and thankfully there was a trash can within 10 feet of the abandoned mess. I took photos and explained in my NA log, why I tossed it. I was dumbfounded why no one else posted an NA, although there were plenty of found it logs that mentioned the terrible condition.

Edited January 4, 2015 by L0ne.R

[Mr.Yuck]

The cans and bottles I found while hiking around the other day were not mine either, but I removed them. As far as this game goes, "ownership" is loose concept. In some areas where I live, the park administrators have stated that they consider all containers left within the park to be litter. Other public lands define all items left within the area for more than certain periods to be abandoned. An archived box that is wet, damaged, and broken may be nothing more than a box that is wet, damaged, and broken. An archived box left by a person who was in the game for a couple weeks five years ago and has had no visitors since that time may be abandoned. Just because something was once a part of this game does not render it a permanent fixture. Consider the circumstances. Check into it a little if you have doubts. Use your best judgment.

 

I can see your perspective there. I'm not right about everything all the time you know.

[4wheelin_fool]

I'm not sure if I'm following this line of thought correctly. If you want to remove an archived cache, you simply email the owner. If they do not respond, then the container is abandoned and can be removed. It probably should be held for a few weeks in the event they are slow to respond, and a note saying that you removed it should be posted on the cache page.

 

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

[Pup Patrol]

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

 

 

B.

Edited January 4, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[Pup Patrol]

I have long ago moved out of the area and no longer able to maintain this cache.

Archiving.

 

Posted by an "experienced" cacher.

 

All caches archived. How many containers are still sitting out there?

 

 

 

B.

[4wheelin_fool]

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

 

 

B.

 

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

[+wmpastor]

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

B.

 

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

Post 2 was based on post 1 which said it was "archived long ago." From that I drew a reasonable conclusion that it was abandoned, and therefore no longer belonged to someone. The archiving process produces at least two emails and possibly three or four. Then the cache status appears in the cache listing. Another couple of years go by and the cache is found (per the OP's post). What's next - publishing notices in a newspaper?? Or discarding long-abandoned litter?

 

Edit: And yes, if anything had the slightest hint of value, sending one more email would be good form.

Edited January 4, 2015 by wmpastor

[+kunarion]

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

The only time I've found an archived cache container, I added a log "LNTECCAICHWMSL (Left nothing, took entire cache container and its contents home with me, signed log)", handed the crushed ammo can (smashed by a fallen tree) to its owner in person at an event, and I placed a new cache there after verifying he didn't intend to place a new one.

 

But, yeah, I sent an email first.

Edited January 4, 2015 by kunarion

[4wheelin_fool]

M

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

B.

 

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

Post 2 was based on post 1 which said it was "archived long ago." From that I drew a reasonable conclusion that it was abandoned, and therefore no longer belonged to someone. The archiving process produces at least two emails and possibly three or four. Then the cache status appears in the cache listing. Another couple of years go by and the cache is found (per the OP's post). What's next - publishing notices in a newspaper?? Or discarding long-abandoned litter?

 

Edit: And yes, if anything had the slightest hint of value, sending one more email would be good form.

 

A number of assumptions are at work here. Post 2 assumes that it is not listed anywhere else and abandoned, and that the owner is not interested in it. You have also assumed that someone from Groundspeak archived it and not the owner. Another assumption is that the definition of "a long time ago" matches your own. A new cacher or a kid may think 3 months is a long time ago. What we know for a fact is that someone else placed it there and at one time considered it their property. Based on this, a simple email is needed before scavenging it. If it was found accidentally, then it certainly can be removed, but again, a simple email is needed afterwards. Placing an ad in the newspaper takes much more effort and is a ridiculous comparison.

 

If someone is fearful of sending a simple email, then they may be other underlying problems that should be addressed first before worrying about what someone else left behind.

 

I'll also mention that litter older than 50 years may be considered archeologically important and probably should not be disturbed either without permission from the property owner, according to an archaeologist.

Edited January 4, 2015 by 4wheelin_fool

[Pup Patrol]

M

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

B.

 

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

Post 2 was based on post 1 which said it was "archived long ago." From that I drew a reasonable conclusion that it was abandoned, and therefore no longer belonged to someone. The archiving process produces at least two emails and possibly three or four. Then the cache status appears in the cache listing. Another couple of years go by and the cache is found (per the OP's post). What's next - publishing notices in a newspaper?? Or discarding long-abandoned litter?

 

Edit: And yes, if anything had the slightest hint of value, sending one more email would be good form.

 

A number of assumptions are at work here. Post 2 assumes that it is not listed anywhere else and abandoned, and that the owner is not interested in it. You have also assumed that someone from Groundspeak archived it and not the owner. Another assumption is that the definition of "a long time ago" matches your own. A new cacher or a kid may think 3 months is a long time ago. What we know for a fact is that someone else placed it there and at one time considered it their property. Based on this, a simple email is needed before scavenging it. If it was found accidentally, then it certainly can be removed, but again, a simple email is needed afterwards. Placing an ad in the newspaper takes much more effort and is a ridiculous comparison.

 

If someone is fearful of sending a simple email, then they may be other underlying problems that should be addressed first before worrying about what someone else left behind.

 

I'll also mention that litter older than 50 years may be considered archeologically important and probably should not be disturbed either without permission from the property owner, according to an archaeologist.

 

Getting back to the specific archived/abandoned cache in question:

 

I posted the "archive" log from the specific cache owner:

 

 

 

I have long ago moved out of the area and no longer able to maintain this cache.

Archiving.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2015 by Pup Patrol

[+Mudfrog]

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

 

 

B.

 

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

 

After months, in this case years, it's pretty obvious the cache's owner doesn't care about it. Email or not, it's geolitter at this point and needs to be CITOed by a more responsible cacher.

[4wheelin_fool]

I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

 

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum.

 

Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning.

 

If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached.

 

Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year?

 

Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with.

 

This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place.

 

 

B.

 

Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

 

After months, in this case years, it's pretty obvious the cache's owner doesn't care about it. Email or not, it's geolitter at this point and needs to be CITOed by a more responsible cacher.

 

In this particular case that appears to be true, although I was talking in a general sense. Even so, an email about it may trigger them to think about and ponder their litter.

 

Hello, I noticed that you moved away and apparently abandoned your geocache. But don't worry about it, we cleaned it up for you, as there are quite a few people that aren't too happy about geocachers littering the woods. Geocaches are placed under the premise of responsible ownership, and when cache maggots get the idea that they ALL are abandoned, that makes the sport a lot less fun for all of us, as at that point they tend to steal them. But it's okay, we have it, and please let us know if you want the remains of the corpse. Hoping all is well.

Edited January 5, 2015 by 4wheelin_fool

[+hzoi]

I have long ago moved out of the area and no longer able to maintain this cache.

Archiving.

 

Posted by an "experienced" cacher.

 

All caches archived. How many containers are still sitting out there?

 

Just saw this on a cache I logged this summer. It was brought to my attention since I was one of the last few finders and the owner of the TB that had been stranded when the owner archived it contacted me. I called out the CO in a note, which he promptly deleted. Interestingly, he'd left behind an ammo can.

 

Meanwhile, in my neck of the woods, I found out three weeks ago that I need to move from Oklahoma to El Paso. I took the time to police up all of our physical caches (save for the low maintenance micro we'll leave behind with a maintenance plan, because I just can't line in a world without The Cache Police). Even the night cache -- yup, I pulled up every last fire tack. Because being a cache owner means you take responsibility for the whole process, not just the hiding part.

[+L0ne.R]

I have long ago moved out of the area and no longer able to maintain this cache.

Archiving.

 

Posted by an "experienced" cacher.

 

All caches archived. How many containers are still sitting out there?

 

B.

 

So far I've found 5. 1 archived after one DNF, I was using a 2-week old GPX file so didn't see that it had been archived. The other 4 were unpublished caches. 2 too close to our hides. 2 too close to other hides. All abandoned. I watched one for about a year. It was about 20 feet from another cache. The other cache was difficult to find - bouncy coordinates in the woods. The abandoned unpublished cache was being found by people looking for the other cache. They had assumed they found the correct cache. So after almost a year I decided it was best to remove the large aspirin bottle and end the confusion.

 

I do know of one angry geocide (because of an NA log). Out of spite, the owner did not pick up any of his hides.