Mutrux Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I am new and I don't want to post maintenance on a cache. I would look like the newbie "cache police" But what is the "Proper" thing to do when the log/s are full? Of the 4 I have claimed, 3 of the logs were full and some were falling apart. I had to make my own log on one. Without removing the others, Would it be alright if I placed another log in the cache? I have found several that I've downloaded and it looks just like the ones that are full. Quote Link to comment
+Touchstone Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I am new and I don't want to post maintenance on a cache. I would look like the newbie "cache police" But what is the "Proper" thing to do when the log/s are full? Of the 4 I have claimed, 3 of the logs were full and some were falling apart. I had to make my own log on one. Without removing the others, Would it be alright if I placed another log in the cache? I have found several that I've downloaded and it looks just like the ones that are full. Look like a newbie cache police and post a Needs Maintenance Log. Some will say that it's alright to replace a log, while others will say no. It's a personal preference really. Whichever route you decide, it's always a good idea to let the cache owner know when their cache needs attention. Quote Link to comment
+uxorious Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 If the log is full, I will usually just add a slip of paper with my name. If the cache is big enough, and I have some extra logs with me, I might add a new log. However, I will leave the old log in the cache, and notify the CO in my on line log. As for a NM, I would just mention in the on line log that the cache log is full. If several others have mentioned that also, and the log is still full, that would be when I would add a NM. Quote Link to comment
Mutrux Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) Thanks, I just wanted to make sure I was logged as proof I was there. I guess I will place a new log, and may also log that I put another one in and add "needs maintenance". From what I gathered from reading, owners should maintain their caches, so I thought I'd ask. Edited December 26, 2014 by Mutrux Quote Link to comment
+niraD Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 I print extra log sheets on weatherproof paper and carry them with me while geocaching. I'll add one to a cache if the existing log is full or unsignable, but I won't take the the existing log with me. And if there isn't room for another log, then I'll just sign the existing one as best I can and post a NM online. Also, if the problem is a leaky container (wet log), and not just a full log, then the cache still needs a NM online even if I did leave an extra log. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 As a co-cache owner I'd like to add that we appreciate NM logs when the cache is full...actually, a note in the found log when the logbook is almost full is even better, so we have time to get out and replace the log so the next finders get a clean new log to handle. But an NM when the log is full is great. It tells me that there is an issue that needs to be addressed ASAP. I wish more people would use the feature. Many times over the years I've done a checkup to find a problem (burst bubble container, wet contents, moldy log, sticky stuff because someone left candy, full logbook) yet no one mentions the problem - no NM, nothing about the condition of the cache in the Found log. We take pride in our caches and want finders to have a nice all-round experience, which includes a cache in good shape with a logbook that's signable. It's appreciated when finders help us provide a good experience for the next visitors. The NM feature is an important tool. Quote Link to comment
GeoAllTheCaches Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 This thread actually brings up a follow-up question to me. Is there a sort of cache-log etiquette? Before going out on my first caching adventure I had read that you should always have extra paper in case a log is full. Do you need to have specific replacement logs with you or will any paper do? Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have always been able to squeeze my signature, or initials, in somewhere. Or you could try signing the back of the log sheet? Quote Link to comment
+jellis Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Same as most. I carry extra logs. Squeeze your name in and post a NM. You would not be a cache police by letting the CO there is an issue with their cache and maybe the next cacher will read the message and replace it for you. Quote Link to comment
+WarNinjas Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 You don't have to bring any paper with you. If you do it is nice and doesn't have to be anything special. You can look online for free geocaching log sheets. Then print some out for replacements. I'm sure the logs you found were full but like someone here said I have gone to replace a log that someone said was full only to find the back of the log was empty. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I am new and I don't want to post maintenance on a cache. I would look like the newbie "cache police" But what is the "Proper" thing to do when the log/s are full? Of the 4 I have claimed, 3 of the logs were full and some were falling apart. I had to make my own log on one. Without removing the others, Would it be alright if I placed another log in the cache? I have found several that I've downloaded and it looks just like the ones that are full. If in your view a cache requires maintenance please do post the appropriate log type which is, of course a Needs Maintenance log I must confess to some dismay at seeing that one of the first things you've been led to believe as a brand new geocacher is that it's somehow not cool to post a Needs Maintenance log when all you're doing is bringing the facts to the cache owner's attention. EVERY reponsible cache owner will want to ensure that visitors to their caches have a good experience and therefore will want to keep on top of maintenance issues - so please continue to help them to do that - and ignore those who see it as some affront or inconvenience If you feel like adding some paper or a replacement logbook to help the cache owner out then you should find that most CO's will appreciate the help - but don't feel that you must - cache maintenance is the owner's responsibility after all. If you do add a logbook please leave the existing one in the cache - it's the cache owner's property after all. When I've found a cache where the logbook is soaking wet and the names on it are unreadable anyway, I've often placed that logbook, in it's 'protective' bag, outside and underneath the cache so as to remove that moisture from the container so that it doesn't just stew inside the container. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Geocachers who hide micros and nanos sometimes get the mistaken idea that by hiding non-swag caches there's less maintenance. Some hide them and expect the community to take care of them. Some see the log as unnecessary and never intend to replace the log or check the log. They create a pseudo-virtual cache. Replacing logs may encourage irresponsible cache ownership and contribute to the idea that some people/land managers have, that geocaching is an illicit littering activity. Quote Link to comment
+floridapenguin Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I always bring an assortment of different sized replacement logs and cache containers and small ziploc bags. When I replace any of the items I usually state so in the log. I have frequently been thanked by the cache owner for the maintenance of the cache. I enjoy this game and see it as my part to make it enjoyable for others. Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have always been able to squeeze my signature, or initials, in somewhere. Or you could try signing the back of the log sheet? Same here. I've always been able to squeeze my name in or at least a shortened form. I don't bother bringing extra logs, most of the time with logs that are full it's a micro and there's no room for extra paper unless you take the original out. Let the CO take care of it. Quote Link to comment
+AKACRider Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 personally, I replace them IF the container is ok, then send the CO an email stating if they want the log, I will meet them sometimeof their choice and hand the log to them or mail it to them. If the container is wrecked, I usually take one of my signature tickets, stamp it, fire it into the slush and post a nm. Quote Link to comment
+BCandMsKitty Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 This isn't rocket science! A NM log is just that .... the cache needs maintenance! No need for drama, or guilt. You're simply telling the cache owner that their cache needs maintenance! For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. The cache owner should feel glad that you told them there's a problem that they need to address. I know we are for our caches. If the logs are full, then they need to get out and put new logs in. It's not the job of other cachers to maintain other people's caches. If someone hides a cache with the idea that everyone else is going to look after it for them, they shouldn't be hiding caches! Find some small blank space, initial and date, and log the find with a NM log!Let the cache owner maintain their caches. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) This isn't rocket science! A NM log is just that .... the cache needs maintenance! No need for drama, or guilt. You're simply telling the cache owner that their cache needs maintenance! For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. The cache owner should feel glad that you told them there's a problem that they need to address. I know we are for our caches. If the logs are full, then they need to get out and put new logs in. It's not the job of other cachers to maintain other people's caches. If someone hides a cache with the idea that everyone else is going to look after it for them, they shouldn't be hiding caches! Find some small blank space, initial and date, and log the find with a NM log!Let the cache owner maintain their caches. I agree with all of this. I did, however, add a log sheet at a CO's request just this morning...simply because they asked nicely and I had a printed log sheet available that fit inside. Edited March 17, 2015 by J Grouchy Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. Because the are made to feel that way by people who shriek loudly and brand them cache police for posting a NM? It was suggested to me the other day that if I didn't like a particular aspect of geocaching that I'd be best finding something else to do with my time. I think that advice would have been more appropriate for those who feel the need to shriek loudly and make people feel bad for communicating simple facts. Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. Because the are made to feel that way by people who shriek loudly and brand them cache police for posting a NM? It was suggested to me the other day that if I didn't like a particular aspect of geocaching that I'd be best finding something else to do with my time. I think that advice would have been more appropriate for those who feel the need to shriek loudly and make people feel bad for communicating simple facts. +1 My other 2/3rds caught heck at some events because I place NM or NA on hides. Really upsetting having your partner in tears, asking to leave. - Of course, not a one has ever said anything to me... There's enough bullies out there, I can see why many don't even mention issues in their online log, much less place a NM. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. Because the are made to feel that way by people who shriek loudly and brand them cache police for posting a NM? It was suggested to me the other day that if I didn't like a particular aspect of geocaching that I'd be best finding something else to do with my time. I think that advice would have been more appropriate for those who feel the need to shriek loudly and make people feel bad for communicating simple facts. +1 My other 2/3rds caught heck at some events because I place NM or NA on hides. Really upsetting having your partner in tears, asking to leave. - Of course, not a one has ever said anything to me... There's enough bullies out there, I can see why many don't even mention issues in their online log, much less place a NM. Indeed Of course what you must remember is that most CO's are children so we should make allowances for them... oh no... wait - most of them are adults! Quote Link to comment
+BCandMsKitty Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 This isn't rocket science! A NM log is just that .... the cache needs maintenance! No need for drama, or guilt. You're simply telling the cache owner that their cache needs maintenance! For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. The cache owner should feel glad that you told them there's a problem that they need to address. I know we are for our caches. If the logs are full, then they need to get out and put new logs in. It's not the job of other cachers to maintain other people's caches. If someone hides a cache with the idea that everyone else is going to look after it for them, they shouldn't be hiding caches! Find some small blank space, initial and date, and log the find with a NM log!Let the cache owner maintain their caches. I agree with all of this. I did, however, add a log sheet at a CO's request just this morning...simply because they asked nicely and I had a printed log sheet available that fit inside. I'm OK with something like that I just don't like those that seem to think it's everyone else's duty. And even resort to bullying as mentioned in the above posts if you do post NM logs. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 This isn't rocket science! A NM log is just that .... the cache needs maintenance! No need for drama, or guilt. You're simply telling the cache owner that their cache needs maintenance! For the life of me, I don't know why people feel uncomfortable posting NM. The cache owner should feel glad that you told them there's a problem that they need to address. I know we are for our caches. If the logs are full, then they need to get out and put new logs in. It's not the job of other cachers to maintain other people's caches. If someone hides a cache with the idea that everyone else is going to look after it for them, they shouldn't be hiding caches! Find some small blank space, initial and date, and log the find with a NM log!Let the cache owner maintain their caches. I agree with all of this. I did, however, add a log sheet at a CO's request just this morning...simply because they asked nicely and I had a printed log sheet available that fit inside. I'm OK with something like that I just don't like those that seem to think it's everyone else's duty. And even resort to bullying as mentioned in the above posts if you do post NM logs. There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. NA. Simple. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. NA. Simple. If I did that, I might as well brand myself a geocaching leper in my community. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. NA. Simple. If I did that, I might as well brand myself a geocaching leper in my community. That's a sorry state of affairs. Quote Link to comment
+J Grouchy Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. NA. Simple. If I did that, I might as well brand myself a geocaching leper in my community. That's a sorry state of affairs. Yeah, well...the popularity contest doesn't end after high school. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. NA. Simple. If I did that, I might as well brand myself a geocaching leper in my community. That's a sorry state of affairs. Yeah, well...the popularity contest doesn't end after high school. True - but you're not forced to compete. Quote Link to comment
+BCandMsKitty Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. I guess he'll continue to get away with that if the local community lets him. It's been my understanding that you can get away with remote caches if you can demonstrate to the reviewer that you have a maintenance plan in place (a named local cacher, etc.) If that's so, the local guy should be going out to do the required maintenance. Just continue to post the NM logs as you find caches that need maintenance. If you care enough about the situation, and they do an OM log saying there is no maintenance needed, and you find there is still a problem, then do a NA. That will get the attention of a reviewer, and the problem as you stated might get resolved. If you don't care enough about the situation, or don't want to get involved, then let it slide. As for being branded a geocaching leper in your community, anyone worth worrying about should be glad someone is trying to correct the situation. No one should get a pass on maintenance of their caches. Quote Link to comment
+spirothebudgie Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I don't think there is anything wrong with logging a needs maintenance log, as a cache owner I sometimes don't get to check all of my caches regularly so the maintenance log lets me know if there is a problem with the cache so I can disable it and go fix it up as soon as I can. Personally I will only use the needs maintenance log for more urgent problems (for example broken/missing containers) if the log book is full I usually just mention it in my online log and verify my find with a picture of the logbook. Unfortunately sometimes the problem gets ignored by the owner and the cache ends up with lots of temporary logbooks inside, in which case it is time to log a needs maintenance. I don't care if the old logbooks are replaced/removed in my caches, and I really appreciate it when a finder just puts in a temporary log until I can get there to put in a new one. I have done this a few times myself, including a small ziplock bag so the logbook stays dry. Some cache owners might want to keep the logs though, so I never remove or throw away full logbooks. And of course I certainly don't expect people to replace logbooks for my caches! Unfortunately some caches don't always get the maintenance they need, so I do carry a small caching kit with me sometimes just with a few spare logbooks and some duct tape for fixing a cracked container to help keep the cache in decent condition for the next finder until the owner is able to perform maintenance. Edited March 19, 2015 by spirothebudgie Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. I guess he'll continue to get away with that if the local community lets him. It's been my understanding that you can get away with remote caches if you can demonstrate to the reviewer that you have a maintenance plan in place (a named local cacher, etc.) If that's so, the local guy should be going out to do the required maintenance. Just continue to post the NM logs as you find caches that need maintenance. If you care enough about the situation, and they do an OM log saying there is no maintenance needed, and you find there is still a problem, then do a NA. That will get the attention of a reviewer, and the problem as you stated might get resolved. If you don't care enough about the situation, or don't want to get involved, then let it slide. As for being branded a geocaching leper in your community, anyone worth worrying about should be glad someone is trying to correct the situation. No one should get a pass on maintenance of their caches. Wholeheartedly agree. Glad to see another Ontarian on the same wavelength. I see the posting of NMs and NAs as taking pride and encouraging quality in the game and in our province's caches. Quote Link to comment
Pup Patrol Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 There is a CO of caches here (Atlanta) that actually lives in Amsterdam and when folks post NM logs to his caches, he immediately posts OM logs stating either that maintenance isn't necessary or that a local will take care of it. It's my understanding that he is planning to return to Atlanta at some point, but it always sort of bothers me that he kinda gets a pass on maintenance and does all his maintenance (and has actually hidden some caches recently!) by proxy. I guess he'll continue to get away with that if the local community lets him. It's been my understanding that you can get away with remote caches if you can demonstrate to the reviewer that you have a maintenance plan in place (a named local cacher, etc.) If that's so, the local guy should be going out to do the required maintenance. Just continue to post the NM logs as you find caches that need maintenance. If you care enough about the situation, and they do an OM log saying there is no maintenance needed, and you find there is still a problem, then do a NA. That will get the attention of a reviewer, and the problem as you stated might get resolved. If you don't care enough about the situation, or don't want to get involved, then let it slide. As for being branded a geocaching leper in your community, anyone worth worrying about should be glad someone is trying to correct the situation. No one should get a pass on maintenance of their caches. Wholeheartedly agree. Glad to see another Ontarian on the same wavelength. I see the posting of NMs and NAs as taking pride and encouraging quality in the game and in our province's caches. Another Ontarian agreeing. To be worried about being seen as a "cache cop" because you are afraid to post the appropriate "NM" and "NA" is a detriment to the game and a disservice to your fellow cachers. To call anyone a "cache cop" is an insult that reflects more on the cache owner who squawks about being requested to maintain his/her cache. B. Quote Link to comment
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