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RR abandoned, but still owned by RR


4wheelin_fool

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More than you ever want to know about the SEPTA R8 Newtown/Fox Chase rail line: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Chase_Line

 

FWIW, SEPTA is a government agency, not private.

 

In the part of the Fox Chase railway that's been converted to trails, SEPTA considers this to be 'Rail banking' which keeps the ROW active in case SEPTA would want to lay track sometime in the future. Zones 4 and 5 are the sections of dormant track where I mentioned that 16 caches reside. There are more caches in other zones.

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If the railroad still owns the property, you cannot trespass upon it. Pretty simple. It is not public property and cannot be used by the public. Railroad police (who have extremely wide jurisdiction, a holdover from the railroad boom in the 19th century) take a dim view of trespassers. Since they are few and far between, and generally spend their time on active railroad property, they may have approached the neighbors and asked them to call police if they see people on RR property.

 

It's very difficult to get a cache published around here if its anywhere near railroad property, and rightfully so. One slipped through the cracks a couple of years ago, and was placed about 15 feet from the tracks on a line that many thought was abandoned (including me). No trains had been down there for years, and weeds were 5-6 feet high at the rails. It was quickly killed when local geocachers narced it out. About a year later, about 300-400 railroad cars suddenly appeared down the line, when the railroad began using it for a parking lot. Later, the railroad was cleaned up, and today it looks like a main line, although it is used only on occasion.

 

For the locals reading this, I'm referring to the NS line between Dutch Road and Waterville, and they pushed hundreds of cars down past Waterville and onto the old Bluebird track. Then they pulled them back a few months later.

Edited by GrizzFlyer
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There's apparently different railroad entities. Privately owned, and government owned. Since Septa owns this, they are the only ones that have say. I just don't want to be on another part of the track and run into the same officer that warned me once already. That scenario doesn't usually end well. If he's simply being reactive without any legal basis then it's s different story.

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If the RR did not sell or transfer the their right of way then they are still the property owner. They have all the rights of any other property owner. If the cache owner wants to place a cache on a RR right of way they have an absolute legal and geocache rules responsibility to contact the property owner before placing the cache. Cache reviewers should know the legal status of public and private land in their area of responsibility and should not allow caches that have do not have public access approval. Cachers should also be familar with the restrictions in their area. Assume nothing!

 

RR rights of way criss-cross Cochise County, AZ from the 19th Century. These road beds have been closed for 50+ years but the RR still owns the land and does not allow public access. Their reason is simple. Many sections of the right of way are in disrepair. If you get hurt on their property they can be sued.

Edited by WeeWillie
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Plain and simple all RR property is forbidden for trespass as per federal law.

Some rail lines are on private property but with ROW. When the rail line abandons the line they remove it and property goes back

to the original owner. If the rail line is the owner then even though the rails are gone trespass forbidden.

Often times the state may take ownership and turn it into a bike path.

But bottom line is PRIVATE PROPERTY. The reviewers often do not check with the county GIS maps as to ownership.

Sometimes they use GOOGLE maps to do that, but that is goofed up and has wrong lines and info.

I have had to fight with our reviewers about this and told them they had better use the county maps.

I have always won out with this and prove ownership where I hide. I have only one on private property with permission.

The rest are on public land and that is where the battles begin. I have to prove the property lines, I got to the county.

I have found roads on GOOGLE that do not exist and claims of parks that do not exist.

Claims of private property that is and always has been public. Don't trust GOOGLE KML or KMZ.

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I checked with a friend who does more caching than I do, and he concurs, that there are no posted signs on the dormant RR. On top of that, a portion of the R8 has been turned into a section of the Pennypack Trail, with the tracks removed. Montgomery County leased the section from SEPTA for $1 in 2008.

Is the Pennypack Trail named after this guy?

 

2AW0FKm.jpg

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I checked with a friend who does more caching than I do, and he concurs, that there are no posted signs on the dormant RR. On top of that, a portion of the R8 has been turned into a section of the Pennypack Trail, with the tracks removed. Montgomery County leased the section from SEPTA for $1 in 2008.

Is the Pennypack Trail named after this guy?

 

2AW0FKm.jpg

No no, that's H.E. Pennypacker, the wealthy American industrialist. :laughing:

Edited by The A-Team
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I checked with a friend who does more caching than I do, and he concurs, that there are no posted signs on the dormant RR. On top of that, a portion of the R8 has been turned into a section of the Pennypack Trail, with the tracks removed. Montgomery County leased the section from SEPTA for $1 in 2008.

Is the Pennypack Trail named after this guy?

 

2AW0FKm.jpg

No no, that's H.E. Pennypacker, the wealthy American industrialist. :laughing:

 

I thought it was Van Nostrand, the railroad magnate.

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