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CazP

Big Number finds on a single day

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Or, you know, because they're fun, with friends.

 

Sorry, I've never bought this argument. ...

 

 

Can we really question whether a cacher is having fun when he says he's having fun? People have fun in different ways.

 

What about the cache owners who put some effort into their caches and look forward to feedback. They get log after log of copy & paste copy-cat writing about the great day the cachers had with each other but they can't remember anything about any of the caches they've found. Somehow the geocache doesn't matter, it is simply the conduit to to a day of smiley collecting. Where's the fun for cache owners? :(

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Or, you know, because they're fun, with friends.

 

Sorry, I've never bought this argument. ...

 

 

Can we really question whether a cacher is having fun when he says he's having fun? People have fun in different ways.

 

What about the cache owners who put some effort into their caches and look forward to feedback. They get log after log of copy & paste copy-cat writing about the great day the cachers had with each other but they can't remember anything about any of the caches they've found. Somehow the geocache doesn't matter, it is simply the conduit to to a day of smiley collecting. Where's the fun for cache owners? :(

 

If you look at most long drivable PTs they ask you to post your comments to the first cache as that is the cache they read. If you look at cache #1 of a lot of the major PTs you'll see some of the most impressive logs ever posted in the last few years, If your argument is crappy logs look at urban micros and new app users post "that's another find for me" not at PTs which are mainly done by caches with a decent amount of experience.

 

As for effort, try putting out 2500 caches, that's effort and its being rewarded by becoming a famous destination that affects the local economy and try finding 2500 caches on a short vacation, that takes some pretty impressive stamina.

 

I know I have been rewarded with some awesome days on power trails and I have rewarded the CO of each with above average logs.

 

Funny how those claiming it's not about the numbers try to belittle those amassing the numbers.

Edited by Roman!

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Or, you know, because they're fun, with friends.

Sorry, I've never bought this argument. ...

Can we really question whether a cacher is having fun when he says he's having fun? People have fun in different ways.

What about the cache owners who put some effort into their caches and look forward to feedback. They get log after log of copy & paste copy-cat writing about the great day the cachers had with each other but they can't remember anything about any of the caches they've found. Somehow the geocache doesn't matter, it is simply the conduit to to a day of smiley collecting. Where's the fun for cache owners? :(

If you look at most long drivable PTs they ask you to post your comments to the first cache as that is the cache they read. If you look at cache #1 of a lot of the major PTs you'll see some of the most impressive logs ever posted in the last few years, If your argument is crappy logs look at urban micros and new app users post "that's another find for me" not at PTs which are mainly done by caches with a decent amount of experience.

 

First, what wmpastor said.

 

Second, what Roman! said.

Chances are, a CO with a power trail is not looking for great unqiue logs on every single cache. More likely, they pay less attention to them all because it's endless email notifications, especially if it's a group of cachers that went to do the trail. You could say that's bad cache maintenance then, but that's still looking at the trail as independent caches, when more likely, people doing the trail are prepared and expect some amount of caches needing repair or replacement. Many COs may not mind, or may even encourage people to do maintenance while out there if needed (but that shouldn't be an expectation or obligation) - if not, then they'll find out in some manner that a cache along the trail is missing. And usually it's because PT cachers will either contact the owner with a summary of issues if there are any, or it'll go in the first log (or C/P text).

 

Essentially, PT cachers have an expectation for PT caches' states, and are typically prepared for what they find. Owners of PTs generally watch the PT caches as a whole, not individually, and allow for practices that may not be as acceptable for individual caches or caching trips, whether on the finders' part or the CO's (like 3-cache monte, throwdowns, container replacements if broken, log replacements, etc).

 

The problems seem to arise usually when there's a crossover in expectations...

A single-cache finder has an issue finding a cache that belongs to a PT;

or a PT cacher finds a cache that they think belongs to the PT but is an independent one;

or armchair cachers proselytize their opinions online about geocaching methodologies and ethics for a caching style they don't like ;P

 

The issue is that there's an assuming etiquette that not necessarily everyone knows or adheres to. There's the argument of course that powertrail are still individual caches, and so should follow that etiquette. But while this is true, it's also a community-applied expectation. If the CO does maintain their caches, it doesn't matter if they are watching and reading every single cache's posted log for info, or paying close attention to a specific log or waiting for contact - as long as they do take the responsibility to maintain their caches, as is the expectation of cache owners.

I think it's just easier to jump on them if the cache with the problem happens to be on a PT series, because omg powertrail! Otherwise it would just be another cache with a maintenance issue.

 

But alas I'm going off on a tangent... heh

 

 

It does sound like a unique experience - *maybe* something to try once - but it would geopardize my coveted status as a "low-numbers cacher." If I did it, i'd need to create a sock account and lead a double life! :ph34r:

 

Ironically, holding to "low-numbers caching" is just as "about the numbers" as people who are motivated by increasing their find count quickly. :P

On one extreme, if you want to inflate your stats, you're going to seek out high saturation areas, easy caches, and probably not care too much about replacing the hide as best as it can be for the next.

On the other extreme, if you want to keep your stats low, you'll likely be going out of your way to seek out only "quality" hides and potentially missing out on a whole lot of other experiences that can be fun, but you may never know because you've already excluded them.

Both extremes shape their geocaching adventures around their motivation, and may miss out on experiences they may otherwise very much enjoy. Granted only the former really has the chance to ruin finds for other players, but nonetheless, why be either of these two extremes?

 

I think a smattering of both is good. For me, numbers aren't my motivation. Friends and experiences are - whether that means high numbers days, or long trips for single caches.

 

Perhaps you could say being Numbers Agnostic is the best way to enjoy the game :P

 

 

Motivation.jpg

 

Funny how those claiming it's not about the numbers try to belittle those amassing the numbers.
Edited by thebruce0

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The high numbers psychology has filtered down to all caches. It started with PT trails (especially the kind along roadways). Roadside PTs seemed to spur on the group caching growth.

 

Groups almost always goes out to get as many caches in a day as they can. As a result everyone in the group can't remember any of the individual caches - they probably only actually saw half of the caches (or fewer). No time to savor the individual cache experience, because the point of the day isn't the cache. It's covering as much ground as possible and hanging with "geocaching" friends. I put "geocaching" in quotes because I'm not sure it's geocaching when the actual cache has little value.

 

One thing the big-group big-numbers caching also does - it waters down the favorite points for a good cache. Example - new cache, clever cache hide, beautiful location by a stream, ammo can with a large leather logbook. The first 4 individual finds results in each cacher giving the cache a favorite point (100%), remarking on the clever hide, beautiful location and logbook. Along comes a caching group of 25 people. Everyone logs a cut-and-paste PT-style log and not one person gives it an FP - because they found 60 caches that day, probably only 2 people actually saw the cache and those 2 don't remember which of the 60 was the nice, clever, ammo can with a beautiful logbook. FP percentage is now 14%.

 

Big numbers caching, in whatever forum it takes (PTs, group caching, etc.), does not take into consideration the cache owners who contribute more than just a smiley to the game.

 

[edited for grammar]

Edited by L0ne.R

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The high numbers psychology has filtered down to all caches. It started with PT trails (especially the kind along roadways). Roadside PTs seemed to spur on the group caching growth.

 

The group almost always...everyone in the group...the group...a caching group of 25 people...

 

What group are you talking about?

Because I know "groups" who are not like that. I also know groups that very much are like that.

So no, it's not "group caching" that is the problem. It's the attitude of people who enjoy "group caching" and don't make an effort to keep the game fun for other people.

 

It's not about numbers. It's about your primary motivation. Someone liking big number days does not imply someone that doesn't care about anything but numbers or that they hurt the game for anyone else. Same with people who enjoy caching in groups, be it of 6 or 25 people. Same for people who enjoy doing long series of caches on a trail or country roadsides.

There is a greater chance, of course, that a group may consist of people whose motivation is not to keep the game fun for other people, or who don't respect the game itself.

 

But to equate the two is a blatant fallacy.

 

Put the blame where blame is due. Not on power trails. Not statistics. Not saturation. Not urban caches. Not nanos. Not LPCs. Not 'tftc' logs.

It's people who don't care about anything but what's right in front of them.

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Wow. A lot has changed over the few years I couldn't go caching. Obviously I don't know what a power trail is and a lot of terms I'm reading here. Moving cache containers? I've got to brush up.

 

While I get the "geocaching is what YOU get out it" and "to each his or her own" and all that, I don't really understand finding like 900 caches in a day. While I'm sure going out for a day with friends can be blast, so would just taking a road trip somewhere with friends. Have fun, laugh, see new things. I love a good road trip with friends. But what does the actual CACHING part add to that? Other than huge jumps in your numbers. If a cache is well hidden, then wouldn't it take 10-15 minutes or more to find it??! X 900?! Again,I'll have study up on power trails but it sounds like something I'd choose to leave alone. It sounds like a different game. But I'm glad some people have fun with it.

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If a cache is well hidden, then wouldn't it take 10-15 minutes or more to find it??! X 900?!
That's a big "if" there. On a trail designed for extreme numbers runs, the caches are designed to be found quickly and easily. And generally, they're all hidden the same way, so even if the first one was a challenge for you to find, none of the rest will be.

 

It sounds like a different game.
Yeah, it's definitely a different game. Here's a video that shows how it's played:

 

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While I get the "geocaching is what YOU get out it" and "to each his or her own" and all that, I don't really understand finding like 900 caches in a day. While I'm sure going out for a day with friends can be blast, so would just taking a road trip somewhere with friends. Have fun, laugh, see new things. I love a good road trip with friends.

And that's awesome. Not understanding how someone else can have fun doing something different is part of the wonderful flexibility of any decent, popular pastime. Not everyone enjoys the exact same thing. And it's fine to say we don't 'get' how someone else can enjoy something different.

 

But what does the actual CACHING part add to that?

Finding caches ;)

 

Other than huge jumps in your numbers.

"What's your motivation?"

High numbers are high numbers. Not everyone goes for high numbers because of high numbers. Sometimes the motivation is for big trips with friends and finding caches - both easy and hard. A day long trip in an area with lots of caches can commonly produce hundreds of finds in a day.

 

I'll have study up on power trails but it sounds like something I'd choose to leave alone. It sounds like a different game. But I'm glad some people have fun with it.

Yep, it can be a different game. There's nothing stopping anyone from finding caches on a trail that are placed close together and not treating it like a power trail though. "Power trail" is just a loose term for a collection of caches bunched close together generally along a trail or road, hidden in such a way to make them easier or quicker to find. They're not necessarily as fun to find individually, so they're generally found by groups of 2 or more, and usually a whole bunch in single trips. That's about it. Beyond that, just do whatever you like.

 

I've seen power trails with themes which can be super fun, and high difficulty or terrain powertrails (that are not quick/high number finds)... we have river power trails as well, intended for days going tubing or canoeing down the river for an afternoon. You name a theme or style or method of finding and chances are there's a power trail for it.

 

I don't limit "power trails" merely to "high speed easy large quantity runs".

 

A power trail is more like a series of related physical caches that can be found in one or more single outings. That leaves it open for many cool ideas.

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I don't limit "power trails" merely to "high speed easy large quantity runs".
I try to use the term "numbers run trail" for those "high speed easy large quantity runs" like the ET Highway trail and the Route 66 trail. That frees up "power trail" to refer to closely packed caches that are actually different caches, different styles, different descriptions, by different owners... the way power trails used to be before Groundspeak gave up on the whole "don't hide a cache every 600 feet just because you can" thing.

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