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WAAS or GLONASS?


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Which one is better? WAAS or GLONASS? If there is a difference. Is one more accurate than another? Also, because GLONASS uses a Russian satellite system can you use in the US?

 

They are different-very different. GLONASS is the Russian version of GPS. I do believe it covers all of North America. WAAS is not a GPS system. It works with GPS to improve your accuracy. See Link The accuracy from the linked page is as good as 3 meters. It does improve the GPS in vehicles, but when we're looking for a 1 inch tube it's still a lot of area to cover-it won't really help getting exact. Plus the fact that you are going to the co-ords, not the cache location(cache may be misplaced, or have wrong co-ords)

 

Anyway, as far as I know WAAS is standard in all current GPS's, so if you get a GLONASS unit, you're getting both.

 

The benefit of GLONASS is that the units you are likely looking at (assuming you're in North America) have GLONASS as well as GPS. That means more satellites, which means fast locks, and if for some reason you can't connect to a GPS satellite, or the signal is low, you're still getting readings from other satellites.

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Actually they are apples and oranges.

 

WAAS WAAS is a augmentation to the US GPS satellites developed by the FAA to improve accuracy in the US and not available in the rest of the world. Their goal is to eventually be able to land airplanes automatically.

 

GLONASS GLONASS is a Russian system that originally was comparable to the US system without WAAS. It became fully operational in 2010 and as they replace earlier satellites with the latest (3rd generation) will become more accurate.

 

For Geocaching the difference in accuracy if any is not all that important since the least accurate instrument deotermines the final error. So if the placer of the cache has an instrument with a larger accuracy circle than the device you hunt with it doesn't do any good. All yours does is get you closer to where the placer thought the coordinates were. Now greater accuracy will mean that the placer of the cache may have a better coordinate but if you are hunting with a less accurate device that will prevail.

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When WAAS first came out I thought it would be good. Then I started reading about it and found that you get a faster lock and better battery life without it. I also read that the way Garmin used it if it's enabled and you don't get a signal the accuracy goes down not up. I disabled it and never looked back. This might not all be true today but I've found no reason to find out.

 

GLONASS seams to help with how fast I get a lock and with accuracy. Iv'e played around enabling and disabling it. If I have a clear view of the sky say in the middle of a field it seems to make little if any difference. The more cover from trees buildings etc. the more it seem to help. Iv'e also been told by a member of army intelligence that the farther north you are the more it will help. So thy way I see it is that it might help and won't hurt so I would enable it.

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When WAAS first came out I thought it would be good. Then I started reading about it and found that you get a faster lock and better battery life without it.

 

What's with the two messages here claiming you get "faster lock" without WAAS? That is utter nonsense. WAAS has no effect on the speed of getting a GPS lock. It can't. It doesn't work that way.

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@fizzy

The mythology surrounding the purpose and the use/disuse of WAAS/EGNOS is pretty astounding. I've long since given up even trying to untwist the logic behind some of the explanations I've heard from owners.

I'll take the 'D's any time I can get them and be happy, and have ceased even commenting the vast majority of the time. Let 'em push whatever buttons makes 'em feel good, I say.

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@fizzy

The mythology surrounding the purpose and the use/disuse of WAAS/EGNOS is pretty astounding. I've long since given up even trying to untwist the logic behind some of the explanations I've heard from owners.

I'll take the 'D's any time I can get them and be happy, and have ceased even commenting the vast majority of the time. Let 'em push whatever buttons makes 'em feel good, I say.

 

I had always been a fan of the little " D's " and my 62S units and Oregon 450 were always dead on the cache locations. A few months ago after putting in batteries I put two 62S units on the window sill side by side and one locked up in a few seconds and the other never did ( maybe 5 min ).....I checked and somehow WAAS got turned off on the fast lock up unit. I turned WAAS off on the other unit and it locked up right away. I'm not sure if it was a one time thing but the units are still dead on GZ for caching.

I really have no reason to re enable WAAS but I have no reason to own a couple dozen GPS units either so I may enable one and do some testing.

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To me it makes perfect sense that it takes longer for a lock under WAAS. It is more accurate. After getting a general lock from the gps satellites it has to factor in the WAAS satellites which are separate and only available in North America. Here is Garmin's short comment on accuracy getting better since the origin of the system

 

100 m: Accuracy of the original GPS system, which was subject to accuracy degradation under the government-imposed Selective Availability (SA) program.

 

15 m: Typical GPS position accuracy without SA.

 

3-5 m: Typical differential GPS (DGPS) position accuracy.

 

< 3 m: Typical WAAS position accuracy.

 

So you have to choose. Quick lock or accuracy.

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I've never seen it longer to get a lock with WAAS turned on. It can take time for the WAAS correction to become active, but the regular GPS lock is just as fast. It does make a big difference. Where I'm located, it was not really possible to get a WAAS satellite until they add a new one a few years ago. The accuracy levels of hides and finds took a major step up once it became fairly easy to maintain a WAAS signal.

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I've never seen it longer to get a lock with WAAS turned on. It can take time for the WAAS correction to become active, but the regular GPS lock is just as fast. It does make a big difference. Where I'm located, it was not really possible to get a WAAS satellite until they add a new one a few years ago. The accuracy levels of hides and finds took a major step up once it became fairly easy to maintain a WAAS signal.

How is the accuracy if you don't get a WAAS satellite? Is it the same as if WAAS is not enabled? When I tried WAAS my accuracy went down if I had WAAS enabled and didn't get the correction from the satellite. That was most of the time. I should be able to get the signal a lot more often now. After reading comments above I'm thinking of trying it again if there is no downside. I checked my books and the newest one to advise not using WASS was printed in 2005 so the information is 9 or more years old. The GPSs I have now lock on a lot faster then the one I had back then so I'm not too worried about lock time.

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To me it makes perfect sense that it takes longer for a lock under WAAS. It is more accurate. After getting a general lock from the gps satellites it has to factor in the WAAS satellites

Yes, maybe it's a hardware thing. When my GPSr becomes "too busy to do Geocaching", it doesn't usually let me know why I'm waiting, but I've supposed it's crunching numbers. My new idea is to select less things for it to do. A couple of months ago, I shut off WAAS and GLONASS on my Garmin 650T, as a test after a Thread around here asked about the settings. I haven't seen any particular difference in Sat Lock, navigation, sprightliness of results, nor accuracy. It's not worse. The extra settings may make a difference in some places, but not where I've gone lately.

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How is the accuracy if you don't get a WAAS satellite? Is it the same as if WAAS is not enabled? When I tried WAAS my accuracy went down if I had WAAS enabled and didn't get the correction from the satellite. That was most of the time. I should be able to get the signal a lot more often now. After reading comments above I'm thinking of trying it again if there is no downside. I checked my books and the newest one to advise not using WASS was printed in 2005 so the information is 9 or more years old. The GPSs I have now lock on a lot faster then the one I had back then so I'm not too worried about lock time.

 

Accuracy is half to two thirds with WAAS on versus off.

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To me it makes perfect sense that it takes longer for a lock under WAAS. It is more accurate. After getting a general lock from the gps satellites it has to factor in the WAAS satellites which are separate and only available in North America. Here is Garmin's short comment on accuracy getting better since the origin of the system

 

100 m: Accuracy of the original GPS system, which was subject to accuracy degradation under the government-imposed Selective Availability (SA) program.

 

15 m: Typical GPS position accuracy without SA.

 

3-5 m: Typical differential GPS (DGPS) position accuracy.

 

< 3 m: Typical WAAS position accuracy.

 

So you have to choose. Quick lock or accuracy.

 

No. Just plain no.

 

The WAAS satellites are separate from the GPS satellites; you get the GPS lock with or without WAAS. All WAAS does is add accuracy to an existing lock if it's available. There is no reason it should have any effect on the speed of acquiring GPS satellites.

 

I guess I should go with ecanderson's view: people are going to make up imaginary ways in which WAAS works and change their behavior accordingly, and trying to correct them is just beating one's head against the wall.

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Which one is better? WAAS or GLONASS? If there is a difference. Is one more accurate than another? Also, because GLONASS uses a Russian satellite system can you use in the US?

 

Glonass is reportedly slightly better at higher latitudes such as are found in the Arctic north of Russia, as the orbit of their satellites brings them nearer to the poles. I live just below 54°N and on my GPS-only satnav most of the satellites are always shown to the south. That said, I used my satnav for caching in Riga, which is at 56°N, without a problem.

 

Similar to what has happened with GPS, Glonass has been partly demilitarised and is being promoted for commercial use so there should be no technical issues with using it in the US. As for any possible political/legal issues, these are unlikely because it is supported on Apple and other US products.

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Accuracy is half to two thirds with WAAS on versus off.

Thanks that sounds good. It's the same with WAAS on and no data from the WASS satellite as it is with WASS off?

Precisely. A 'lock' is obtained from any of the regular GPS (or GLONASS) satellites once a sufficient number are being decoded successfully to establish a reasonable idea of a location. IF, after that, a unit also happens upon one of the WAAS or EGNOS satellites, the information from that satellite will be used to enhance the accuracy of the information being received from the regular GPS (or GLONASS) satellites. If WAAS/EGNOS is enabled, and the unit is unable to locate and decode information from one of them, you're right where you'd be if you had left the WAAS/EGNOS feature disabled... no correction data available to refine the info from the satellites you're unit has already used for the 'lock'.
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Fizzy is right....Period! No difference in lockup time due to WAAS.

 

TCP you can disagree with ECA on how to keep a m SD card in a GPS unit where it doesn't fall out.

Does he really still use tape?

 

The ones that think WAAS causes slow lockup are probably the same ones that:

 

Have 9762 separate gpx files on their unit(s) (yep, I know, impossible, but they would if they could)

Have installed 32 different sets of maps on their unit. (of places they will never go or have ever been)

Have never cleaned archive files out of their units.

And on, and on......you get the picture....

 

All info has to be read , checked for changes, stored, etc.....before unit ever gets to the point of "locking on".

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To me it makes perfect sense that it takes longer for a lock under WAAS. It is more accurate. After getting a general lock from the gps satellites it has to factor in the WAAS satellites

Yes, maybe it's a hardware thing. When my GPSr becomes "too busy to do Geocaching", it doesn't usually let me know why I'm waiting, but I've supposed it's crunching numbers. My new idea is to select less things for it to do. A couple of months ago, I shut off WAAS and GLONASS on my Garmin 650T, as a test after a Thread around here asked about the settings. I haven't seen any particular difference in Sat Lock, navigation, sprightliness of results, nor accuracy. It's not worse. The extra settings may make a difference in some places, but not where I've gone lately.

 

What 650t? There's at least 2 650T's!

Edited by GrayHawk613
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Probably the confusion is the misnomer 'lock'.

 

Each GPS satellite broadcast a pseudorandom sequence of bits. Not realy random, just unique for each satellite. It is precisely because the receiver knows this sequence that it can detect the very faint radio signals from the satellites and sync up to decode the rest of the message. When you turn on your receiver it starts searching for these pseudorandom sequences and when it detects one, this is wnat is called lock.

 

Each WAAS satellite is a also broadcasting a pseudorandom sequence. The WAAS satellites are geosynchronous, so they are farther away than the GPS satellites, and for many people they will be lower on the horizon. The weaker signal often makes it harder to detect the pseudorandom sequence.

 

Once a receiver has gotten a lock and decoded the message from from 4 GPS satellites it can compute your time and position. You don't need the WAAS signal to get a postion. But it may that some units will see that you have turned WAAS on and they might continue to try to get the WAAS signal so they can use it to augment and correct the GPS signals. Even if they start displaying the position once they acquire/lock GPS signals, there might be an indication that they are still searching for satellites. My guess is that is what people are seeing that convinces them that units take longer to acquire/lock with WAAS turned on.

 

WAAS also has two types of correction. One type is continuosly broadcast corrections for the GPS satellite position and clocks. The other type is updated less frequently and takes several minutes to be sent. So even once you have 'lock' on the WAAS signal, it will take several minutes to receive the full correction.

Edited by tozainamboku
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Fizzy is right....Period! No difference in lockup time due to WAAS.

 

TCP you can disagree with ECA on how to keep a m SD card in a GPS unit where it doesn't fall out.

Does he really still use tape?

 

The ones that think WAAS causes slow lockup are probably the same ones that:

 

Have 9762 separate gpx files on their unit(s) (yep, I know, impossible, but they would if they could)

Have installed 32 different sets of maps on their unit. (of places they will never go or have ever been)

Have never cleaned archive files out of their units.

And on, and on......you get the picture....

 

All info has to be read , checked for changes, stored, etc.....before unit ever gets to the point of "locking on".

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

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......

TCP you can disagree with ECA on how to keep a m SD card in a GPS unit where it doesn't fall out.

Does he really still use tape?

 

......

I was not aware that he had a problem with it falling out. If it is one that is inserted into an external slot (like my SanDisk Sansa music player), he might consider a large capacity card like this:

http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Memory-Adapter--SDSDQUAN-128G-G4A-Version/dp/B00M562LF4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418864282&sr=8-1&keywords=sandisk+128gb+micro+sd

 

Then he could fill it up with enough data to last a dozen years and secure it with a dollop of gorilla glue.

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So the theory states that enabling WAAS/EGNOS will not affect the time taken to acquire a satellite lock, but some anecdotal evidence suggests that it significantly increases the time to acquire a lock. Time to test the theory by experimentation, so here, in my best O-Level Physics style is the experiment I conducted:

 

Aperatus:

1 Etrex30, with micro-sd card removed therefore the unit has no .gpx files or maps above those which the unit itself creates (tracks etc). This was positioned in the garden with a clear view of the sky, though no view of the horizon in any direction therefore the WAAS satellites on the Southern horizon will be out of signal range. Timings were taken using the stop watch facility on my Nexus7 tablet. This test was conducted in Southern England approx N51.000, W001.000 with light cloud cover.

 

Method:

Etrex was powered on and allowed to aquire a lock, and then:-

Settings were changed to select GPS only with WAAS OFF, the unit was power cycled and the time to report a position noted.

Settings were changed to select GPS only with WAAS ON, the unit was power cycled and the time to report a position noted.

Settings were changed to select GPS+GLONASS with WAAS OFF, the unit was power cycled and the time to report a position noted.

Settings were changed to select GPS+GLONASS only with WAAS ON, the unit was power cycled and the time to report a position noted.

 

The position and satellite constellation was noted from the "satellite" screen on the GPS.

 

The above tests were then repeated with the unit inside the house in a room with only one South East facing picture window, the test was conducted 4 feet from the window.

 

I also attempted to perform a test whereby the unit, while powered on, was allowed to lose satellite lock and then re-acquire it; to do this I ended up having to put the GPS inside a metal ammo box which was positioned in the centre of the house (with no windows), however by the time I had removed the GPS from the box and walked back into the room it had re-aquired a lock (sub 2 seconds and not really measurable) - that unit has a pretty good receiver!

 

 

Results:

In the first test, in every case the GPS had a satellite lock by the time the unit had completed it's power up sequence - i.e. 13 seconds. There were no timing differences, the only differences in the results were that the GPS only tests had 9 satellites in the constellation after 13 seconds, whereas the GPS+GLONASS tests had 15 satellites; in all cases additional satellites were subsequently added to the constellation.

 

In the second test, there was no lock immediately after the power on sequence had completed, but each test aquired a lock after 15 seconds.

 

In none of the tests was a WAAS signal aquired (no "D" on any of the satellites).

 

Conclusion:

Enabling WAAS does not measurably affect the time to aquire a satellite lock.

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@fizzy

The mythology surrounding the purpose and the use/disuse of WAAS/EGNOS is pretty astounding. I've long since given up even trying to untwist the logic behind some of the explanations I've heard from owners.

I'll take the 'D's any time I can get them and be happy, and have ceased even commenting the vast majority of the time. Let 'em push whatever buttons makes 'em feel good, I say.

 

I had always been a fan of the little " D's " and my 62S units and Oregon 450 were always dead on the cache locations. A few months ago after putting in batteries I put two 62S units on the window sill side by side and one locked up in a few seconds and the other never did ( maybe 5 min ).....I checked and somehow WAAS got turned off on the fast lock up unit. I turned WAAS off on the other unit and it locked up right away. I'm not sure if it was a one time thing but the units are still dead on GZ for caching.

I really have no reason to re enable WAAS but I have no reason to own a couple dozen GPS units either so I may enable one and do some testing.

 

Please re read the above....these are IDENTICAL 62S units in every respect each containing an identical 2014 City Nav on a SD card.

In the above with WAAS enabled the " no lock up " unit was still searching and my map position would not update....disabled WAAS and bam, instant lock up....both units contained 1 only identical GPX file.

I'm not as tech as many here but thought with WAAS enabled that 2 of your 12 sat's were occupied by WAAS....if your unit couldn't find WAAS you had 10 left to lock on. With WAAS off you have 12 to search for.

I live far south and was told WAAS was available if you could see the horizon which often I can't.

I will say in the past when I went to the lakefront and stood on the 30' high levy ( clear view of horizon all around and nothing overhead ) I would get 12 sats, all with " D's " , and the accuracy was dead on ( both units read the same and various GZ's were 0-2".

I'll do some more testing.

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I'll do some more testing.

 

If it was me I'd be looking to switch the conditions on the two units, so the one which previously had WAAS enabled has it disabled, and vice versa. And before commencing the tests I would let each one get a satellite lock, then power cycle it, that would eliminate any issues due to one GPS having a delay downloading the almanac due to having moved a long way since it's last lock, or due to it's time being out of sync with the satellite system for whatever reason.

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The WAAS argument rumbles on, this from 2009 http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=237714 :laughing:

 

Me, I'll always run with WAAS off as I've seen no improvement in accuracy with it enabled, just another part of the whole that can go wrong so I'd rather eliminate it and reduce potential problems. YMMV

 

Yes, but you are in the wrong part of the world. In most of the USA and southern Canada, it makes a big difference, which is the point to it.

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Sorry, you're correct, I should have said WAAS/EGNOS ... EGNOS, which is the same as WAAS in the EU, makes no practical difference ... even though theoretically it should.

 

Then that is a problem with EGNOS and I think it is important not to confuse people in the USA... WAAS does make a big difference based on my personal experience if you have a WAAS correction active in the area service by the WAAS system.

Edited by Red90
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To me it makes perfect sense that it takes longer for a lock under WAAS. It is more accurate. After getting a general lock from the gps satellites it has to factor in the WAAS satellites

Yes, maybe it's a hardware thing. When my GPSr becomes "too busy to do Geocaching", it doesn't usually let me know why I'm waiting, but I've supposed it's crunching numbers. My new idea is to select less things for it to do. A couple of months ago, I shut off WAAS and GLONASS on my Garmin 650T, as a test after a Thread around here asked about the settings. I haven't seen any particular difference in Sat Lock, navigation, sprightliness of results, nor accuracy. It's not worse. The extra settings may make a difference in some places, but not where I've gone lately.

 

What 650t? There's at least 2 650T's!

Oh yeah, true! I was referring the kind of 650T that I own, not the other kinds. I hope that clears it up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:laughing:

 

 

 

In case you're waiting to run out and buy whatever kind it is, I have the Garmin Oregon 650T.

 

And I live a few miles south of Atlanta. The GPSr guidance seems about the same regardless of fancy settings. In other places, having WAAS activated may make a huge difference.

Edited by kunarion
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TCP you can disagree with ECA on how to keep a m SD card in a GPS unit where it doesn't fall out.

Does he really still use tape?

Yup, though remember, it's painter's tape (the blue stuff), so there's far less chance of any ESD event -- not that I ever remove it anyway. Had the same piece in place for going on two years now, I think.
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......

TCP you can disagree with ECA on how to keep a m SD card in a GPS unit where it doesn't fall out.

Does he really still use tape?

 

......

I was not aware that he had a problem with it falling out. If it is one that is inserted into an external slot ...

Nah, it's issues with the one inside units like the Oregon 450. The card drops into a cavity under the batteries that is designed to be covered by a little stainless spring steel cage - one that is supposed to stay latched in place once properly closed. For some reason, repeated battery swaps find a way to disturb the latch on the cage, and if batteries are being swapped in the dark or without due attention, and the cage opens, the uSD card is lost without one realizing it. Nothing like fishing around in the grass at night for a tiny bit of plastic, hoping that one of the gold contacts will reveal itself to a flashlight :mad:

 

So once installed and cage closed, a 1" piece of 3/4" blue painters tape was installed and will remain unless/until I have reason to pull the card some day down the road.

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......

TCP you can disagree with ECA on how to keep a m SD card in a GPS unit where it doesn't fall out.

Does he really still use tape?

 

......

I was not aware that he had a problem with it falling out. If it is one that is inserted into an external slot ...

Nah, it's issues with the one inside units like the Oregon 450. The card drops into a cavity under the batteries that is designed to be covered by a little stainless spring steel cage - one that is supposed to stay latched in place once properly closed. For some reason, repeated battery swaps find a way to disturb the latch on the cage, and if batteries are being swapped in the dark or without due attention, and the cage opens, the uSD card is lost without one realizing it. Nothing like fishing around in the grass at night for a tiny bit of plastic, hoping that one of the gold contacts will reveal itself to a flashlight :mad:

 

So once installed and cage closed, a 1" piece of 3/4" blue painters tape was installed and will remain unless/until I have reason to pull the card some day down the road.

I have never had a problem with my etrex 20. I put the card in when it was new and the latch has never opened. On my 64s the latch is always opening. They both look like the same socket and latch. I think it's a matter of how tight each latch fits and not because it's a different modal of GPS.

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YOU (several) HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING !!!!!

 

Totally unbelieveable! I've got several units with the same kind of latch. Batteries have been in and out thousands of times. I can take batts out and turn the units upside down and shake, rattle, and roll as hard and fast or as long as I want and card will never come out.....never!and with NO TAPE!!

 

Now, these instructions are EXTREMLY difficult.

 

Open the back of your unit.

Take batteries out.

Now this one is very important........Put your glasses on and / or get a magnifying glass.

READ on the little stainless steel door covering the card slot.

It's a four letter word.......LOCK.....and there is even an arrow ---->.

When you put the card in, close the door then slide it in the direction of the arrow to LOCK.

Card will NOT fall out PERIOD...EVER! .....even with no tape.

 

To remove the card, first slide cover to unlock position, then open to remove card. Or you can just turn the unit upside down and shake and it will fall into your hand , or onto the ground or into the snow.

 

If the door is loose in the lock position, it's because someone has forced it open without unlocking it first and distorted it. Re adjust it's shape and use it the way it's supposed to be used.

 

Now, don't all of you raise your hands at the same time, but, How many of you didn't even know there was a "Lock" position that cures your exact "problem"??

 

Yeah, my tone may be a little condecending, but you have to realize that this is not a new "problem". How many models have exactly the same type card latch? It's NOT a latch problem, it's a USER problem.

Some users can read, and some choose not to.

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YOU (several) HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING !!!!!

Actually, no.
Yeah, my tone may be a little condecending,
Well, that much of the generalization is true...
but you have to realize that this is not a new "problem". How many models have exactly the same type card latch? It's NOT a latch problem, it's a USER problem.

Some users can read, and some choose not to.

It's not matter of reading. C'mon and pay me a visit here in Colorado, as I don't plan to ship my Oregon 450 to you for your bloody inspection. I happen to have a unit whose little stainless cage slides out of the so-called "Lock" position VERY easily. Manufacturing tolerances, perhaps? I can push VERY gently with my finger and slide it back to the unlocked position. Rather than attempting to reform the thing, I chose tape as a safer alternative.

 

It freakin' happens, so lighten up and behave, will you?

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YOU (several) HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING !!!!!

 

Totally unbelieveable! I've got several units with the same kind of latch. Batteries have been in and out thousands of times. I can take batts out and turn the units upside down and shake, rattle, and roll as hard and fast or as long as I want and card will never come out.....never!and with NO TAPE!!

 

Now, these instructions are EXTREMLY difficult.

 

Open the back of your unit.

Take batteries out.

Now this one is very important........Put your glasses on and / or get a magnifying glass.

READ on the little stainless steel door covering the card slot.

It's a four letter word.......LOCK.....and there is even an arrow ---->.

When you put the card in, close the door then slide it in the direction of the arrow to LOCK.

Card will NOT fall out PERIOD...EVER! .....even with no tape.

 

To remove the card, first slide cover to unlock position, then open to remove card. Or you can just turn the unit upside down and shake and it will fall into your hand , or onto the ground or into the snow.

 

If the door is loose in the lock position, it's because someone has forced it open without unlocking it first and distorted it. Re adjust it's shape and use it the way it's supposed to be used.

 

Now, don't all of you raise your hands at the same time, but, How many of you didn't even know there was a "Lock" position that cures your exact "problem"??

 

Yeah, my tone may be a little condecending, but you have to realize that this is not a new "problem". How many models have exactly the same type card latch? It's NOT a latch problem, it's a USER problem.

Some users can read, and some choose not to.

 

In my case it's not a user problem and I can read!

 

As I said I've never had a problem with my etrex 20. I put the card in and slid the door to lock and it never moved. I can take the batteries out and hold it so the door would slide to unlock and tap on it or bounce it in my hand and the door won't move. That's something I would not normally do but tried it as a test before I wrote this reply.

 

On my 64s which is newer the door has not stayed locked from day one. If you tilt the unit from side to side the door will move from lock to unlock or from unlock to lock. I think it's a QC problem.

 

This is not a problem on all of the Garmin's with this card setup but it is on some. Jest because you don't have the problem on your's doesn't mean it's not a problem on some.

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This is not a problem on all of the Garmin's with this card setup but it is on some. Jest because you don't have the problem on your's doesn't mean it's not a problem on some.

Ditto. I've worked my caching buddy's Oregon 450, and while it's not what I'd call a positive 'latch', it takes a great deal more pressure to move his latch than it does mine.
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Yep, TCP, my bad spelling....sorry.

 

However, as I previously said..."If the door is loose in the lock position, it's because someone..... (possibly even factory)..... has forced it open without unlocking it first and distorted it. Re adjust it's shape and use it the way it's supposed to be used."

 

"Fixing" it will take less time than making another post.

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The lock in my current Montana became separated quite easily and is certainly looser than the lock that I had/have in either my first Montana, my 60CSx, or my Monterra. The others ranged in effort from a real struggle to unlock and re-lock to a pinky nudge either way. I've never needed to change my card in the dark, but it wouldn't surprise me if this one managed to work its way free inadvertently.

 

On topic, I just use whatever the default version is. I think I played with the function once or twice, without knowing what it was, when I first started using my unit.

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