FTF ethics

[+chemgrl08]

Hi all, first time on the forum. Just need to mention something that has really been bothering me.

I've recently made it my goal to get an FTF (only 150 finds to my name, but it's about time to start trying for one.) I have ended up at two caches FIRST, but wasn't able to find them! OK, so fair and square, I lost the caches- that's part of the reason FTFs are hard to get. Oh well!

What rubs me the wrong way were the folks who claimed FTF on the last cache I missed. I had seen them go by, and having already gotten the coords for the letterbox cache, said jokingly, "You're too late!" After seeing on their faces that they maybe took that a little too seriously, I said, "Well, I mean, I have the coords, but that doesn't mean I'll find it, so you should probably keep going." (And sure enough, I didn't find it. Too much rushing! Lesson learned!)

OK, so far so good. The two fellows got the FTF, but in their log, they stated that they had called the CO to confirm the coords! Does that strike anyone else as, well, cheating? Sure, I lost it fair and square: I wasn't going to get FTF for that one. But even if I could have, I wouldn't call the CO to get the coords right. Maybe if I had been struggling with it for a long time, and after several visits to search, but on an FTF? They also conspicuously left out my encouragement for them to keep going, but made sure to state that I was "taunting" them. I can see how it could be perceived that way, so ok (I don't agree, but ok.) But calling the CO? Isn't it clear that not everyone searching for the cache will know the CO, and that calling in order to confirm coords on a possible FTF is... dubious, to say the least?

Ah, is there no honor in geocaching anymore? LOL. I jest, but I am wondering, would others of you do the same to get an FTF? I wouldn't feel like I earned it if I did it that way.

Just have to keep trying- no one gets it the first time they try, right? And when I do, I'll get it in a way that seems fair to me, and it will be that much sweeter. I still consider myself relatively new, so there are plenty of other challenges I want to try (24 in a day, fill in the calendar, etc) and I'm having tons of fun. Even introduced my uncle to it this Thanksgiving! (He found the 4 star we were going after! Who would've guessed!? )

Thanks for any opinions. Not going to lie, I'm salty about it and want some commiseration. (Just being honest!)

 

EDIT: And in retrospect, I'll mention that I probably should have stopped longer to say hi and introduce myself. I was just on such a high thinking I'd gotten there to work on it first, and that my first FTF was mere moments away! I didn't want anyone to pass me up!

Edited November 29, 2014 by chemgrl08

[+wmpastor]

That's a bummer, alright. But i'm not sure your "opponents" did anything wrong.

 

Take another type with unclear coords - puzzle caches. Some have an online checker. You do the puzzle, then confirm the results before you go to the field. Calling the CO is okay too, I guess, provided you don't get a hint. Seeking hints before there's a FTF is frowned upon.

 

I predict you'll have many FTFs in your future. Sorry to hear about this situation.

Edited November 29, 2014 by wmpastor

[+T.D.M.22]

First to find is a fact, no rules. Doesn't matter if someone has the CO with them- if they manage to find it, and sign it before anyone else they are FTF. That's the definition of first isn't it? Earning FTF? Well if you feel you shouldn't ask for help, then don't. That's how you want to play, so that's how you should play.

 

Dont worry about it and just have fun- if you're not, why are you doing this?

[4wheelin_fool]

Calling the CO to confirm coords certainly isn't cheating, and joking around like you did isn't taunting either, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[+Walts Hunting]

There are no ethics in FTF. It is the wild wild west. There is no such thing as cheating in a situation that has no rules.

[+wmpastor]

There are no ethics in FTF. It is the wild wild west. There is no such thing as cheating in a situation that has no rules.

Agreed that it's an "unofficial side game." However, most who play it have some general agreement about what's legit. However, there doesn't seem to be an "ethics violation" (like getting help from the CO) in this case.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Think about it this way: if the coordinates were bad, then they did future finders a huge favor. If they weren't bad, then there was no advantage to making the call. It's no problem. If they had the cache owner on the phone and didn't even ask for additional clues, then I'd say they did well.

[+kunarion]

sure enough, I didn't find it. Too much rushing! Lesson learned!

Hang out a couple of extra minutes, and you may have FTF along with them.

 

Where I live, it's not unusual for the FTF to call the CO for complete directions to the cache, not only "verifying coords". They're in a rush (Ha! just like you were! ), they have no time to puzzle out a cache that has never been found. The uncertainty dissipates when the CO provides the info (are the coords incorrect? Is the container even in place? It creates some doubt, especially if the Cache Owner tends to provide bad coords on new cache listings). The FTF also doesn't have time to place the container back in the tricky way it was hidden. The cache location now becomes tribal knowledge, no challenge to find at all. If the CO is making the cache especially easy, it should be made especially easy on the cache page itself, not by phone. But what ya gonna do.

 

I'd prefer to be allowed a shot at a tricky find, before the whole thing is given away, but realize that the local FTF people will make a scorched earth crater (they are... very dedicated to the hobby ) if the CO provides no PAF.

 

As mentioned, there are no rules in Geocaching except for the strict rules a mentioner requires to be obeyed.

Edited November 29, 2014 by kunarion

[+MtnMutt-ProDuckShins]

But on a brighter side you got the FDNF or First Did Not Find. Now you have some true bragging rights and darn proud of it.

[+chemgrl08]

Think about it this way: if the coordinates were bad, then they did future finders a huge favor. If they weren't bad, then there was no advantage to making the call. It's no problem. If they had the cache owner on the phone and didn't even ask for additional clues, then I'd say they did well.

 

But that was my point- they did indeed get extra help from the CO. They had the coords wrong (just as I had) but asked the CO if they were right, and got additional info on it (which coord was wrong and that they were off by one digit.)

 

Thank you all for the input. I will personally play the way that I think is "right" (advice that I've read on a lot of the other threads) and be aware that others think the "right" way is different from mine. And wmpastor and 4wheelin_fool, thanks for the encouragement! I wasn't trying to be rude and was worrying they had interpreted it that way.

 

Better luck next time, I guess!

[+chemgrl08]

But on a brighter side you got the FDNF or First Did Not Find. Now you have some true bragging rights and darn proud of it.

 

Hahaha! Thanks, that's how I'll think of it! A hard-earned DNF! (I need to buy that shirt that says something like "DNF and proud of it!")

[+kunarion]

I need to buy that shirt that says something like "DNF and proud of it!"

My shirt says "DNF but I will Find It!".

 

OK, I have no such shirt, but I review my DNF list, in case caches that I once could not find become more findable.

[+DE_Cryptoman]

It took me a while to understand that I had to cache my own cache. How "I" play is how "I" play, not how others play. I am not in an official "competition". If there is a competition, I am competing against myself. Unless you are at an event (such as one of the annual Texas Challenge events), you make your own rules and you live by your own rules and the rules are not binding on anyone else in the game. Geocaching.com has established guidelines (rules) for cache placement; they have not established rules for cache finding.

 

Calling for coordinate verification is a personal call but consider that providing that verification is a personal call on the part of the cache owner. Cache owners have their own rules as well. As one who has placed caches, I would probably NOT give a FTF seeker out-and-out clear information. There might be exceptions but that would be a call I would make based on my own internal angst.

 

As for the attitudes . . . again, I know that I have rubbed fellow cachers the wrong way and at least one that I know still carries a grudge, even after I attempted to personally apologize in public. So how do I handle it? It is a personal choice. I made my choice as to how to handle it. How the other cacher handles it is that cacher's choice.

 

Don't let these things get under your skin. Accentuate the positives and enjoy the obsession. Don't be someone else's negative and don't let someone else determine your attitudes. No one else can make you angry; you choose to let yourself be angered by them.

 

Oh, and how well do I live by my thoughts that I have offered above? Let us just say that I try my best.

 

Harry "DE_Cryptoman" Eyre

Hewitt, TX

[+kunarion]

I would probably NOT give a FTF seeker out-and-out clear information. There might be exceptions but that would be a call I would make based on my own internal angst.

I've gotten phone calls and emails, and wait an extra hour or two before responding, since someone will find the cache by then . I won't provide special info to the loudest FTFer. All of my caches have been in place for months, and I took numerous coordinate readings before they were published. The coords are verified, go find it.

 

I have pondered what I might do if nobody finds my cache. That's never been an issue, since locals usually find them within minutes of publication. Even my cache that requires a one-mile walk to get data points was found promptly.

 

OK, I still do second-guess my cache placements, but only because I probably would never find them. Nobody else seems to have much trouble finding them.

[+Joe the Mailman]

Hi all, first time on the forum. Just need to mention something that has really been bothering me.

I've recently made it my goal to get an FTF (only 150 finds to my name, but it's about time to start trying for one.) I have ended up at two caches FIRST, but wasn't able to find them! OK, so fair and square, I lost the caches- that's part of the reason FTFs are hard to get. Oh well!

What rubs me the wrong way were the folks who claimed FTF on the last cache I missed. I had seen them go by, and having already gotten the coords for the letterbox cache, said jokingly, "You're too late!" After seeing on their faces that they maybe took that a little too seriously, I said, "Well, I mean, I have the coords, but that doesn't mean I'll find it, so you should probably keep going." (And sure enough, I didn't find it. Too much rushing! Lesson learned!)

OK, so far so good. The two fellows got the FTF, but in their log, they stated that they had called the CO to confirm the coords! Does that strike anyone else as, well, cheating? Sure, I lost it fair and square: I wasn't going to get FTF for that one. But even if I could have, I wouldn't call the CO to get the coords right. Maybe if I had been struggling with it for a long time, and after several visits to search, but on an FTF? They also conspicuously left out my encouragement for them to keep going, but made sure to state that I was "taunting" them. I can see how it could be perceived that way, so ok (I don't agree, but ok.) But calling the CO? Isn't it clear that not everyone searching for the cache will know the CO, and that calling in order to confirm coords on a possible FTF is... dubious, to say the least?

Ah, is there no honor in geocaching anymore? LOL. I jest, but I am wondering, would others of you do the same to get an FTF? I wouldn't feel like I earned it if I did it that way.

Just have to keep trying- no one gets it the first time they try, right? And when I do, I'll get it in a way that seems fair to me, and it will be that much sweeter. I still consider myself relatively new, so there are plenty of other challenges I want to try (24 in a day, fill in the calendar, etc) and I'm having tons of fun. Even introduced my uncle to it this Thanksgiving! (He found the 4 star we were going after! Who would've guessed!? )

Thanks for any opinions. Not going to lie, I'm salty about it and want some commiseration. (Just being honest!)

 

EDIT: And in retrospect, I'll mention that I probably should have stopped longer to say hi and introduce myself. I was just on such a high thinking I'd gotten there to work on it first, and that my first FTF was mere moments away! I didn't want anyone to pass me up!

 

I wouldn't consider it cheating unless it was a Puzzle cache. Besides, I am sure most CO's would give you hints or clues to where the cache would be, and not specific cords. After all, its about the search itself. Logging the find isthe icing on the cake. There will be many opportunities to be "FTF". Me personally, geocaching is not a competition, but a way to have fun,relax, and a diversion of every day goings on.

[+dprovan]

Yes, it's cheating. Don't do it unless you're not going to claim FTF.

 

But on the other hand, so they cheated. Who cares? If you didn't have fun, that's what you should be worried about, not what someone else did.

[4wheelin_fool]

Think about it this way: if the coordinates were bad, then they did future finders a huge favor. If they weren't bad, then there was no advantage to making the call. It's no problem. If they had the cache owner on the phone and didn't even ask for additional clues, then I'd say they did well.

 

But that was my point- they did indeed get extra help from the CO. They had the coords wrong (just as I had) but asked the CO if they were right, and got additional info on it (which coord was wrong and that they were off by one digit.)

 

Thank you all for the input. I will personally play the way that I think is "right" (advice that I've read on a lot of the other threads) and be aware that others think the "right" way is different from mine. And wmpastor and 4wheelin_fool, thanks for the encouragement! I wasn't trying to be rude and was worrying they had interpreted it that way.

 

Better luck next time, I guess!

 

You were so close but blew it! It's funny, but remember you never can know if you are FTF until you look at the log.

[+luvvinbird]

Yeah, just hang in there and soon you'll get that elusive FTF. And a week later you'll get your second and shortly after that, your third, etc. At least that's how it went for me. Now I have several FTF's but I'm far less inclined to hurriedly jump in my car and rush off to the cache site. That first FTF was my favourite.

[+Colonial Cats]

I like to find a clean log like most cachers. However, it is not cheating when the CO provides information. The CO has every right to provide or not provide info. Just because the cachers ask they may not necessarily receive.

[+captnemo]

But on a brighter side you got the FDNF or First Did Not Find. Now you have some true bragging rights and darn proud of it.

 

Hahaha! Thanks, that's how I'll think of it! A hard-earned DNF! (I need to buy that shirt that says something like "DNF and proud of it!")

I once got a FDNF on a cache that was muggled before it was found. Was archived without any finds in the end.

[+lamoracke]

Scenario, one looks for a pretty easy seeming cache for 30 minutes. You know the CO, in fact you have done dozens of their caches before, so why not call to ask if the coordinates are correct and they are in the right area. That is not cheating in my book, its not wasting any more of your time and to help the next finders as well. Errors do occur. If the finder then asks for a more explicit hint in finding it, well, its not very honorable in the fairness of FTFs but am not bothered by it. FTF is a side game, have long since cared about those things. Too easy to get one's hackles up in that game so if I get a FTF, I do and if I don't, I don't.

 

I remember once not having my GPS with me and a new cache published and I was like 150 feet from it. I could see in my phone I was close but I could not tell the right GZ so I called a friend of mine to at least tell me what the right GZ was after we searched for a 100 foot radius given I did not have my GPS with me.

Edited November 30, 2014 by lamoracke

[+tozainamboku]

I like to find a clean log like most cachers. However, it is not cheating when the CO provides information. The CO has every right to provide or not provide info. Just because the cachers ask they may not necessarily receive.

Sure the CO has the right to give hints or help. But it isn't going to seem fair to someone going after the FTF. The OP probably didn't have the CO's phone number in their address book, but the eventual FTF did. So being friends with the CO is an advantage the OP didn't have.

 

There are no rules that say you can't take advantage or your friendship with the CO, or that a CO has to refuse to give help until FTF is claimed. Some COs are more sensitive to the appearance of playing favorites in the FTF race and they might refuse to give out hints to anyone before there is an FTF.

 

The OP, like every single other thread on FTF ethics or FTF etiquette, imagines the FTF race is fair. The fact is that the ethics of FTF are a lot like love and war.

[+PlantAKiss]

I used to desire a FTF...but soon realized that it was likely not to be. I'm not free to run out caching at a moments notice, day or night. Typically it's the same cachers getting them most of the time. I finally got ONE...purely by accident. I saw a new listing and went to hunt for it not even thinking about FTF and lo and behold no one had gotten there! Total shock, total accident. It was nice. But I just accept I'll likely never get another. lol And for that reason, when I placed my own caches, I put prizes for other cachers behind the FTF like a "15th-to-Find" prize with a numbered logbook so someone other than the FTFer would get a surprise. That seemed to be appreciated.

[+narcissa]

It doesn't matter if the CO held their hands and guided them to the cache - there are no official FTF rules, and it's not possible to cheat.

[+-CJ-]

Is there such a thing in the world as "FTF ethics"?

[+Fugads]

I sympathize with the OP, and have experienced things from the other side. A few years ago I published a somewhat involved multi cache. The first few cachers to try it followed all the directions, visited multiple spots, and then ended up with final coords that just plain didn't make sense. They visited them anyways, but found nothing. They even tried emailing me, but I was out hiking/caching and didn't get their email (still a dumb-phone user, yes, we exist). Another cacher attempted the multi that morning and ended up with the same bad final coordinates, but he happened to have my phone number and gave me a call. As luck would have it, I had my little caching notebook with me that contained the final coords for the cache, and some dummy coords that I had used when coming up with the cache concept. Sure enough, I had mistakenly pointed the final of my multi to those dummy coordinates instead of the real location. I was grateful that my mistake was caught by a friend and he was even able to temporarily fix it for me, and claimed the FTF. When I finally got home from my hike, I realized the other cachers would have indeed been first if I hadn't messed up, and I felt badly about it, and sent them a note to that effect. I remember those first cachers being somewhat pissed that they missed the FTF because they hadn't had my phone number (they even posted in their log about how a phone call beats email any day), and that is how I imagine you feel as well. It is understandable. Mistakes happen, some people sometimes get what others deserved, life can be unfair. But in the end, we can all have a good time and respect one another. I ended up becoming good friends with the cachers who missed the FTF on my cache, and the whole debacle just became one more story to tell while on the trail or meeting at events.

[+Manville Possum]

I have been seeing a rash of cache placements that it seems only a friend or family member can find, then the CO will "update" the coordinates.

[+colleda]

Is there such a thing in the world as "FTF ethics"?

 

An oxymoron perhaps?

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Think about it this way: if the coordinates were bad, then they did future finders a huge favor. If they weren't bad, then there was no advantage to making the call. It's no problem. If they had the cache owner on the phone and didn't even ask for additional clues, then I'd say they did well.

 

But that was my point- they did indeed get extra help from the CO. They had the coords wrong (just as I had) but asked the CO if they were right, and got additional info on it (which coord was wrong and that they were off by one digit.)

 

I would consider "additional info" to be extra clues, or a more elaborate description. There's nothing additional about coordinates. It just happens that they helped to fix the erroneous coordinates, which is very much more important than making for a fair FTF race. Remember, the first finder is also the beta tester.

[+chemgrl08]

Think about it this way: if the coordinates were bad, then they did future finders a huge favor. If they weren't bad, then there was no advantage to making the call. It's no problem. If they had the cache owner on the phone and didn't even ask for additional clues, then I'd say they did well.

 

But that was my point- they did indeed get extra help from the CO. They had the coords wrong (just as I had) but asked the CO if they were right, and got additional info on it (which coord was wrong and that they were off by one digit.)

 

I would consider "additional info" to be extra clues, or a more elaborate description. There's nothing additional about coordinates. It just happens that they helped to fix the erroneous coordinates, which is very much more important than making for a fair FTF race. Remember, the first finder is also the beta tester.

 

The coords the other cachers had were incorrect due to their own error; the CO had placed it correctly. This was a letterbox where we had to follow directions to get the coords (find this sign, count the letters and subtract 1, etc.) The CO told them which digit was off by 1. (This is according to the cachers' own logs.)

 

Very interesting to see the varied responses- everything from 'too bad so sad' to 'that's cheating.' Overall it is a nice cache and I'll go back to enjoy the walk, as I mentioned. But I'll stick with my way of playing for an FTF. Besides, I just moved to the area and don't know any cachers or COs, so as mentioned above, I couldn't call if I wanted to! (Need to get myself to some events!)

 

I also liked the above comment that mentioned just letting it roll off my back, and then admitted that it's hard to stick to even when you know it in your head. I totally get it! I'm constantly guilty of that!

[joesdolphins]

Hi all, first time on the forum. Just need to mention something that has really been bothering me.

I've recently made it my goal to get an FTF (only 150 finds to my name, but it's about time to start trying for one.) I have ended up at two caches FIRST, but wasn't able to find them! OK, so fair and square, I lost the caches- that's part of the reason FTFs are hard to get. Oh well!

What rubs me the wrong way were the folks who claimed FTF on the last cache I missed. I had seen them go by, and having already gotten the coords for the letterbox cache, said jokingly, "You're too late!" After seeing on their faces that they maybe took that a little too seriously, I said, "Well, I mean, I have the coords, but that doesn't mean I'll find it, so you should probably keep going." (And sure enough, I didn't find it. Too much rushing! Lesson learned!)

OK, so far so good. The two fellows got the FTF, but in their log, they stated that they had called the CO to confirm the coords! Does that strike anyone else as, well, cheating? Sure, I lost it fair and square: I wasn't going to get FTF for that one. But even if I could have, I wouldn't call the CO to get the coords right. Maybe if I had been struggling with it for a long time, and after several visits to search, but on an FTF? They also conspicuously left out my encouragement for them to keep going, but made sure to state that I was "taunting" them. I can see how it could be perceived that way, so ok (I don't agree, but ok.) But calling the CO? Isn't it clear that not everyone searching for the cache will know the CO, and that calling in order to confirm coords on a possible FTF is... dubious, to say the least?

Ah, is there no honor in geocaching anymore? LOL. I jest, but I am wondering, would others of you do the same to get an FTF? I wouldn't feel like I earned it if I did it that way.

Just have to keep trying- no one gets it the first time they try, right? And when I do, I'll get it in a way that seems fair to me, and it will be that much sweeter. I still consider myself relatively new, so there are plenty of other challenges I want to try (24 in a day, fill in the calendar, etc) and I'm having tons of fun. Even introduced my uncle to it this Thanksgiving! (He found the 4 star we were going after! Who would've guessed!? )

Thanks for any opinions. Not going to lie, I'm salty about it and want some commiseration. (Just being honest!)

 

EDIT: And in retrospect, I'll mention that I probably should have stopped longer to say hi and introduce myself. I was just on such a high thinking I'd gotten there to work on it first, and that my first FTF was mere moments away! I didn't want anyone to pass me up!

[+J Grouchy]

One puzzle cache in my area got some FB discussion because of a suspect FTF.

CO likes to publish puzzles...and not necessarily good ones, but difficult nonetheless.

Cacher A solves it - the only solve on the checker tool.

Cacher B, a frequent caching companion of the CO claims the FTF without any evidence of having solved the puzzle.

 

Honestly, if that's how they wanna play it...it's their prerogative. To me this is just evidence in support of not getting too wrapped up in FTF games. No matter how much you want it to be "fair", it will always be a deception to some who play and a joke to others.

[+Zepp914]

One puzzle cache in my area got some FB discussion because of a suspect FTF.

CO likes to publish puzzles...and not necessarily good ones, but difficult nonetheless.

Cacher A solves it - the only solve on the checker tool.

Cacher B, a frequent caching companion of the CO claims the FTF without any evidence of having solved the puzzle.

 

Honestly, if that's how they wanna play it...it's their prerogative. To me this is just evidence in support of not getting too wrapped up in FTF games. No matter how much you want it to be "fair", it will always be a deception to some who play and a joke to others.

 

I won't even try for a FTF on a cache where the cache owner and I go caching together. This will become more of an issue as I make friends when attending more events.

 

A recent cache in my area was FTF by someone who helped place the cache. The cacher didn't take the FTF prize, but was first to log. I am more interested in the prize than being first to sign a piece a paper, but I am sure it irritated some of the other folks in the area.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Zepp914

[+J Grouchy]

One puzzle cache in my area got some FB discussion because of a suspect FTF.

CO likes to publish puzzles...and not necessarily good ones, but difficult nonetheless.

Cacher A solves it - the only solve on the checker tool.

Cacher B, a frequent caching companion of the CO claims the FTF without any evidence of having solved the puzzle.

 

Honestly, if that's how they wanna play it...it's their prerogative. To me this is just evidence in support of not getting too wrapped up in FTF games. No matter how much you want it to be "fair", it will always be a deception to some who play and a joke to others.

 

I won't even try for a FTF on a cache where the cache owner and I go caching together. This will become more of an issue as I make friends when attending more events.

 

A recent cache in my area was FTF by someone who helped place the cache. The cacher didn't take the FTF prize, but was first to log. I am more interested in the prize than being first to sign a piece a paper, but I am sure it irritated some of the other folks in the area.

 

In-town here, a lot of times caches will be placed during or close to the time of an event cache and a group of folks will go along and sign the cache...posting a log stating they "bird dogged" the cache but are not claiming FTF. To me it's just kind of silly, but I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

[+dprovan]

I won't even try for a FTF on a cache where the cache owner and I go caching together. This will become more of an issue as I make friends when attending more events.

That's OK, I trust you not to claim FTF if you had inside information.

 

A recent cache in my area was FTF by someone who helped place the cache. The cacher didn't take the FTF prize, but was first to log. I am more interested in the prize than being first to sign a piece a paper, but I am sure it irritated some of the other folks in the area.

I agree it makes more sense to avoid putting himself in this position, but if he wanted to find the cache, I think it's fine for him to find it while making clear he doesn't deserve FTF status, having helped place the cache. I'd also suggest signing at the bottom of the log to avoid confusion. (Around here, people tend to sign the bottom of the log when they help hide the cache, then claim a find without revisiting GZ after FTF has been claimed.)

[+kunarion]

I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

I've found a couple of those where spot #2 was signed, and FTF was blank. And then I got to figure out what went wrong. Didn't they see Spot #1? It would look goofy if I signed in the "Congratulations FTF!" block, even arrogant. So I did.

 

I've almost ceased using the word "first" in online Geocaching logs. That's a bad word. I got in lots of trouble for typing "First cache of the day" or whatever, when I actually meant to "claim" I had just started my day of caching, not claiming FTF. I didn't even know anyone would be confused about the word "first" in another context. Well, now I know.

 

So I "claim" that I found it. And I let the Cache Owner figure out who is FTF, if they want to.

[+me N u]

A fairly recently published "night cache" was found in daylight by a local cacher who used local knowledge and a hunch to go straight to the final location and claim FTF, cue sour grapes and a strongly worded whinge in the form of a write note on the cache page (since deleted) from others who then claimed "FTF in the dark"

[+CanadianRockies]

In-town here, a lot of times caches will be placed during or close to the time of an event cache and a group of folks will go along and sign the cache...posting a log stating they "bird dogged" the cache but are not claiming FTF. To me it's just kind of silly, but I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

Another option is to simply not log a "Found It" for caches you help hide. That's what I do. Then I add them to my Ignore List.

[+Zepp914]

(Around here, people tend to sign the bottom of the log when they help hide the cache, then claim a find without revisiting GZ after FTF has been claimed.)

 

That is a really good idea. I never even thought about it.

[+dprovan]

A fairly recently published "night cache" was found in daylight by a local cacher who used local knowledge and a hunch to go straight to the final location and claim FTF, cue sour grapes and a strongly worded whinge in the form of a write note on the cache page (since deleted) from others who then claimed "FTF in the dark"

Sounds great. I have to admit, I tried to FTF a night cache during the day it was published because it was broken enough to determine the final coordinates without going there at all, night or day. I was really looking forward to the log I'd write to claim the FTF, too. But it turned out to be so broken that the final wasn't where the night procedure led you, anyway.

 

In addition to having no problem with a daytime FTF of a night cache, I would also enjoy and participate in the whining about it, no matter which side I was on, and I would definitely log "FTF in the dark" if I found myself in that position. That all sounds like fun! But I'd assume no one was taking it seriously, which I suppose might not be the case in other areas.

 

Another option is to simply not log a "Found It" for caches you help hide. That's what I do. Then I add them to my Ignore List.

Not finding a cache I helped hide is now my standard practice, although I don't ignore them, and it's possible I might sign the log later and claim the find if I were in the area again. I wouldn't dream of finding it first, though, much less claiming to be FTF.

[+WarNinjas]

I was in the area when a night cache was published and we went and found it. We claimed FTF on it anyways. It was extra work to do during the day. Maybe we shouldn't have but it is not in a area we go often and never at night so it was the best time for us to find it.

We also placed a bunch of 5 terrain caches with another cacher who was in our kayaks but we never claimed a find on those and we maintain them.

[+noncentric]

A fairly recently published "night cache" was found in daylight by a local cacher who used local knowledge and a hunch to go straight to the final location and claim FTF, cue sour grapes and a strongly worded whinge in the form of a write note on the cache page (since deleted) from others who then claimed "FTF in the dark"

 

Reminds me of a local cache that was published at night and the cache description said not to search after dark because of its location. I checked the cache page in the morning and someone had already logged it as FTF. The time they noted in their found it log was late at night, around 11pm or midnight.

[+wmpastor]

I have been seeing a rash of cache placements that it seems only a friend or family member can find, then the CO will "update" the coordinates.

Glad you're laughing!

 

I made three visits to one cache that went unfound for a week, and then the coords were corrected by about 60 feet.

[+wmpastor]

I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

I've found a couple of those where spot #2 was signed, and FTF was blank. And then I got to figure out what went wrong. Didn't they see Spot #1? It would look goofy if I signed in the "Congratulations FTF!" block, even arrogant. So I did.

 

I've almost ceased using the word "first" in online Geocaching logs. That's a bad word. I got in lots of trouble for typing "First cache of the day" or whatever, when I actually meant to "claim" I had just started my day of caching, not claiming FTF. I didn't even know anyone would be confused about the word "first" in another context. Well, now I know.

 

So I "claim" that I found it. And I let the Cache Owner figure out who is FTF, if they want to.

 

Very courteous of the would-be FTF not to claim FTF! That's their prerogative, I suppose. Some are not into the FTF-game, so why not leave the FTF for someone else?! Makes sense to me.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

I've found a couple of those where spot #2 was signed, and FTF was blank. And then I got to figure out what went wrong. Didn't they see Spot #1? It would look goofy if I signed in the "Congratulations FTF!" block, even arrogant. So I did.

 

I've almost ceased using the word "first" in online Geocaching logs. That's a bad word. I got in lots of trouble for typing "First cache of the day" or whatever, when I actually meant to "claim" I had just started my day of caching, not claiming FTF. I didn't even know anyone would be confused about the word "first" in another context. Well, now I know.

 

So I "claim" that I found it. And I let the Cache Owner figure out who is FTF, if they want to.

 

Very courteous of the would-be FTF not to claim FTF! That's their prerogative, I suppose. Some are not into the FTF-game, so why not leave the FTF for someone else?! Makes sense to me.

 

I someone doesn't play the FTF game why should they change their caching habits to accommodate those that do? If someone finds the cache first, but doesn't claim the FTF, anyone that subsequently finds the cache is not FTF.

[+chemgrl08]

Just a quick update- you guys were right! I managed to snag not just my first FTF today, but I got TWO FTFs! I couldn't believe it! The ones where I had been FDNF would have been more satisfying (they were more of a challenge... probably why I couldn't find them!) But so nice to finally get that goal accomplished! Not sure if I'll continue to be an FTF hound, but I feel great! Found a way to have alerts sent to my phone, and a 7AM double posting made me hop out of bed right quick, not even brushing my hair! No prizes to speak of, but the prize for me was the find. Wooo! Finally!

[+wmpastor]

I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

I've found a couple of those where spot #2 was signed, and FTF was blank. And then I got to figure out what went wrong. Didn't they see Spot #1? It would look goofy if I signed in the "Congratulations FTF!" block, even arrogant. So I did.

 

I've almost ceased using the word "first" in online Geocaching logs. That's a bad word. I got in lots of trouble for typing "First cache of the day" or whatever, when I actually meant to "claim" I had just started my day of caching, not claiming FTF. I didn't even know anyone would be confused about the word "first" in another context. Well, now I know.

 

So I "claim" that I found it. And I let the Cache Owner figure out who is FTF, if they want to.

 

Very courteous of the would-be FTF not to claim FTF! That's their prerogative, I suppose. Some are not into the FTF-game, so why not leave the FTF for someone else?! Makes sense to me.

 

I someone doesn't play the FTF game why should they change their caching habits to accommodate those that do? If someone finds the cache first, but doesn't claim the FTF, anyone that subsequently finds the cache is not FTF.

Dang! I knew I should have put " " after my post!

 

I thought FTF was a state of mind.

 

Anyway, things are getting crazy when there's a FTF and then a "FTF at night," etc., as mentioned earlier.

 

I'm from the "objective view of FTFs," not the subjective one. It's a matter of physics and the unidirectional progression of ontological time. And when i'm fortunate enough to get the ultimate prize of geocaching, the FTF, I generally photograph the log.

[+cheech gang]

It's a matter of physics and the unidirectional progression of ontological time.

 

You made me look it up. Thanx fer lerin' me sumptin' new.

[+kunarion]

I suppose if I were in the group I'd likely sign it too because coming back later to sign seems equally silly...though I'd probably leave the top spot empty.

I've found a couple of those where spot #2 was signed, and FTF was blank. And then I got to figure out what went wrong. Didn't they see Spot #1? It would look goofy if I signed in the "Congratulations FTF!" block, even arrogant. So I did.

 

I've almost ceased using the word "first" in online Geocaching logs. That's a bad word. I got in lots of trouble for typing "First cache of the day" or whatever, when I actually meant to "claim" I had just started my day of caching, not claiming FTF. I didn't even know anyone would be confused about the word "first" in another context. Well, now I know.

 

So I "claim" that I found it. And I let the Cache Owner figure out who is FTF, if they want to.

 

Very courteous of the would-be FTF not to claim FTF! That's their prerogative, I suppose. Some are not into the FTF-game, so why not leave the FTF for someone else?! Makes sense to me.

 

I someone doesn't play the FTF game why should they change their caching habits to accommodate those that do? If someone finds the cache first, but doesn't claim the FTF, anyone that subsequently finds the cache is not FTF.

Yes! It's a chronologoical thing. They who find it first are first to find. Waiting to log online is probably no big deal. Having no data connection, I have to do that all the time. But if it's in the log book that way, and there's a problem with the cache, the muddled sequence begins to make things surreal: "FTF" found the container muggled, the "2TF" found it pristine. Is the cache OK?

Edited December 7, 2014 by kunarion

[4wheelin_fool]

Just a quick update- you guys were right! I managed to snag not just my first FTF today, but I got TWO FTFs! I couldn't believe it! The ones where I had been FDNF would have been more satisfying (they were more of a challenge... probably why I couldn't find them!) But so nice to finally get that goal accomplished! Not sure if I'll continue to be an FTF hound, but I feel great! Found a way to have alerts sent to my phone, and a 7AM double posting made me hop out of bed right quick, not even brushing my hair! No prizes to speak of, but the prize for me was the find. Wooo! Finally!

 

Congratulations! Great job!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Wait, you didn't brush your hair?

 

Cheater...