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Lab caches and alcohol?


Roman!
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I was just looking at all the lab caches at the 3IEE I skipped and noticed one promoting visiting a winery. This isn't the first time a lab cache is promoting visiting a facility for alcohol.

 

Firstly, how is this family friendly.

Secondly, it will happen that someone will get drunk and then get in an accident, who will be liable?

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The past two years at Block Party, I've enjoyed finding the lab caches for the "Brew Pub tour." The evening was a great opportunity to walk all around a cool city neighborhood, meeting different groups of geocachers at each stop and while walking from one lab cache to another. It was like a giant moving party, and I had fun.

 

I don't drink alcohol, ever, period. My enjoyment of the lab caches was not affected by that fact. You can enjoy being at a brew pub without drinking beer, or being at a winery without drinking wine. It's all about the nice location and the nice people you're with.

 

Nobody attempted to force alcohol into my mouth as a condition for logging the lab caches. I bet the same was true at the winery.

 

If mixing alcohol and geocaching is a problem, we'd need to begin by banning event caches at all locations that serve alcohol. There are a lot more of those than there are lab caches at brew pubs and wineries. And I don't see that happening.

 

Regarding liability, lab caches are subject to the website terms of use.

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The past two years at Block Party, I've enjoyed finding the lab caches for the "Brew Pub tour." The evening was a great opportunity to walk all around a cool city neighborhood, meeting different groups of geocachers at each stop and while walking from one lab cache to another. It was like a giant moving party, and I had fun.

 

I don't drink alcohol, ever, period. My enjoyment of the lab caches was not affected by that fact. You can enjoy being at a brew pub without drinking beer, or being at a winery without drinking wine. It's all about the nice location and the nice people you're with.

 

Nobody attempted to force alcohol into my mouth as a condition for logging the lab caches. I bet the same was true at the winery.

 

If mixing alcohol and geocaching is a problem, we'd need to begin by banning event caches at all locations that serve alcohol. There are a lot more of those than there are lab caches at brew pubs and wineries. And I don't see that happening.

 

Regarding liability, lab caches are subject to the website terms of use.

And a good number of brew pubs also make their own rootbeer. Or at least in Colorado a number of them do.

Most of the world doesn't have an issue with children of any age in a pub.

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Most of the world doesn't have an issue with children of any age in a pub.

 

I've brought my kids up to the pub many times. I bring the baby if I'm only going in to say hi to people and not planning to stay. I bring my teenagers if there's a band playing that they like. On the weekends during football season my husband may bring up one of our kids to watch the game and have some lunch. Nobody has ever seemed to find this strange. On the contrary, I find it strange to think that alcohol is somehow so evil or dangerous that kids can't even go into a building where it is being produced, sold, or consumed.

 

As for liability, who is usually liable when someone drinks too much and acts foolish? Why does the connection to geocaching make any difference?

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If you get a 100 people pub hopping to get lab caches odds are someone will get drunk and drive.

 

As for event caches at pubs, I still think it could become an issue but they are put up by individuals whereas lab caches are owned and managed by GS, a multi million dollar company, you honestly think if something did go wrong someone wouldn't sue?

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Most of the world doesn't have an issue with children of any age in a pub.

 

I've brought my kids up to the pub many times. I bring the baby if I'm only going in to say hi to people and not planning to stay. I bring my teenagers if there's a band playing that they like. On the weekends during football season my husband may bring up one of our kids to watch the game and have some lunch. Nobody has ever seemed to find this strange. On the contrary, I find it strange to think that alcohol is somehow so evil or dangerous that kids can't even go into a building where it is being produced, sold, or consumed.

 

As for liability, who is usually liable when someone drinks too much and acts foolish? Why does the connection to geocaching make any difference?

 

How many pubs or bars have been sued successfully after a patron left drunk and got into an accident? Quite a few.

 

Do you honestly believe that in the US people are actually accountable for their actions when a lawyer can come in and sue a business for lots of money?

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I know you hate lab caches, but the pearl-clutching about alcohol is a bit of a stretch. Most sit-down restaurants serve alcohol, including the "family" ones.

 

Point is GS is the one promoting people going to the pubs or wineries and they have money, if someone gets hurt by a drunk driver, they will be a target for both the driver and victim.

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I know you hate lab caches, but the pearl-clutching about alcohol is a bit of a stretch. Most sit-down restaurants serve alcohol, including the "family" ones.

 

Point is GS is the one promoting people going to the pubs or wineries and they have money, if someone gets hurt by a drunk driver, they will be a target for both the driver and victim.

 

There's an advertisement for Molson Canadian at the hockey rink. Is the hockey team responsible if I drink Molson Canadian and kill someone?

 

You're being absurd.

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I know you hate lab caches, but the pearl-clutching about alcohol is a bit of a stretch. Most sit-down restaurants serve alcohol, including the "family" ones.

 

Point is GS is the one promoting people going to the pubs or wineries and they have money, if someone gets hurt by a drunk driver, they will be a target for both the driver and victim.

 

There's an advertisement for Molson Canadian at the hockey rink. Is the hockey team responsible if I drink Molson Canadian and kill someone?

 

You're being absurd.

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=drunk+driver+sues+bar&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

Now it's is absurd: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

Edited by Roman!
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I know you hate lab caches, but the pearl-clutching about alcohol is a bit of a stretch. Most sit-down restaurants serve alcohol, including the "family" ones.

 

Point is GS is the one promoting people going to the pubs or wineries and they have money, if someone gets hurt by a drunk driver, they will be a target for both the driver and victim.

 

There's an advertisement for Molson Canadian at the hockey rink. Is the hockey team responsible if I drink Molson Canadian and kill someone?

 

You're being absurd.

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=drunk+driver+sues+bar&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

Posting a link without comment doesn't elucidate any sort of point.

 

Groundspeak is not the first, nor will it be the last company to form a marketing partnership with a business that makes or sells alcohol.

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I know you hate lab caches, but the pearl-clutching about alcohol is a bit of a stretch. Most sit-down restaurants serve alcohol, including the "family" ones.

 

Point is GS is the one promoting people going to the pubs or wineries and they have money, if someone gets hurt by a drunk driver, they will be a target for both the driver and victim.

 

There's an advertisement for Molson Canadian at the hockey rink. Is the hockey team responsible if I drink Molson Canadian and kill someone?

 

You're being absurd.

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=drunk+driver+sues+bar&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

Posting a link without comment doesn't elucidate any sort of point.

 

Groundspeak is not the first, nor will it be the last company to form a marketing partnership with a business that makes or sells alcohol.

 

I can see them getting sued, I just think it's a bad decision on their part.

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You can bet the drunk driver will get a lawyer, the lawyer will ask what happened, the drunk will tell the lawyer he went bar hopping to get smilies from GS, the lawyers eyes will light up and a lawsuit will be filed, the victims lawyer will get wind of this and another lawsuit will get filed.

 

If this does not happens then the drunk hired a bad lawyer.

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Most of the world doesn't have an issue with children of any age in a pub.

 

I've brought my kids up to the pub many times. I bring the baby if I'm only going in to say hi to people and not planning to stay. I bring my teenagers if there's a band playing that they like. On the weekends during football season my husband may bring up one of our kids to watch the game and have some lunch. Nobody has ever seemed to find this strange. On the contrary, I find it strange to think that alcohol is somehow so evil or dangerous that kids can't even go into a building where it is being produced, sold, or consumed.

 

As for liability, who is usually liable when someone drinks too much and acts foolish? Why does the connection to geocaching make any difference?

 

How many pubs or bars have been sued successfully after a patron left drunk and got into an accident? Quite a few.

 

Do you honestly believe that in the US people are actually accountable for their actions when a lawyer can come in and sue a business for lots of money?

Exclude the US and you've got far fewer issues.

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Most of the world doesn't have an issue with children of any age in a pub.

 

I've brought my kids up to the pub many times. I bring the baby if I'm only going in to say hi to people and not planning to stay. I bring my teenagers if there's a band playing that they like. On the weekends during football season my husband may bring up one of our kids to watch the game and have some lunch. Nobody has ever seemed to find this strange. On the contrary, I find it strange to think that alcohol is somehow so evil or dangerous that kids can't even go into a building where it is being produced, sold, or consumed.

 

As for liability, who is usually liable when someone drinks too much and acts foolish? Why does the connection to geocaching make any difference?

 

How many pubs or bars have been sued successfully after a patron left drunk and got into an accident? Quite a few.

 

Do you honestly believe that in the US people are actually accountable for their actions when a lawyer can come in and sue a business for lots of money?

Exclude the US and you've got far fewer issues.

 

True, but that's where GS is.

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Most of the world doesn't have an issue with children of any age in a pub.

 

I've brought my kids up to the pub many times. I bring the baby if I'm only going in to say hi to people and not planning to stay. I bring my teenagers if there's a band playing that they like. On the weekends during football season my husband may bring up one of our kids to watch the game and have some lunch. Nobody has ever seemed to find this strange. On the contrary, I find it strange to think that alcohol is somehow so evil or dangerous that kids can't even go into a building where it is being produced, sold, or consumed.

 

As for liability, who is usually liable when someone drinks too much and acts foolish? Why does the connection to geocaching make any difference?

 

How many pubs or bars have been sued successfully after a patron left drunk and got into an accident? Quite a few.

 

Do you honestly believe that in the US people are actually accountable for their actions when a lawyer can come in and sue a business for lots of money?

Exclude the US and you've got far fewer issues.

 

True, but that's where GS is.

No that is where the company is headquartered. There is a distinction.

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Alcohol not family friendly? Do you know how many families get started after a night of drinking? :D

 

That's why we drink, I like trying to start a family every night but I am far far away from my car.

 

It would be interesting to know how many people that did the pub thing at the block party drank and how much. I'd bet most people drove to the event, I'm sure some drove home when they shouldn't have.

 

On a more somber note, how many were destroyed by it?

Edited by Roman!
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I know you hate lab caches, but the pearl-clutching about alcohol is a bit of a stretch. Most sit-down restaurants serve alcohol, including the "family" ones.

 

Point is GS is the one promoting people going to the pubs or wineries and they have money, if someone gets hurt by a drunk driver, they will be a target for both the driver and victim.

 

There's an advertisement for Molson Canadian at the hockey rink. Is the hockey team responsible if I drink Molson Canadian and kill someone?

 

You're being absurd.

 

https://www.google.ca/search?q=drunk+driver+sues+bar&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

 

Now it's is absurd: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

 

I agree with narcissa, the Liebeck case is widely misunderstood:

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Alcohol not family friendly? Do you know how many families get started after a night of drinking? :D

 

That's why we drink, I like trying to start a family every night but I am far far away from my car.

 

It would be interesting to know how many people that did the pub thing at the block party drank and how much. I'd bet most people drove to the event, I'm sure some drove home when they shouldn't have.

 

On a more somber note, how many were destroyed by it?

My parents went last year, they drink but were so put off by the crowds that all they did was get close enough to get the code and move on. I'm guessing this wasn't that uncommon of a reaction to the crowds.

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You can bet the drunk driver will get a lawyer, the lawyer will ask what happened, the drunk will tell the lawyer he went bar hopping to get smilies from GS, the lawyers eyes will light up and a lawsuit will be filed, the victims lawyer will get wind of this and another lawsuit will get filed.

 

If this does not happens then the drunk hired a bad lawyer.

Two words: liability insurance.

 

And 2 more: act responsibly.

Edited by wmpastor
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You can bet the drunk driver will get a lawyer, the lawyer will ask what happened, the drunk will tell the lawyer he went bar hopping to get smilies from GS, the lawyers eyes will light up and a lawsuit will be filed, the victims lawyer will get wind of this and another lawsuit will get filed.

 

If this does not happens then the drunk hired a bad lawyer.

Two words: liability insurance.

 

And 2 more: act responsibly.

 

If they got sued I'm sure their insurance would go up significantly.

 

Act responsibly? Yeah, good luck with that, there's a reason the average IQ is about 90.

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If you get a 100 people pub hopping to get lab caches odds are someone will get drunk and drive.

 

As for event caches at pubs, I still think it could become an issue but they are put up by individuals whereas lab caches are owned and managed by GS, a multi million dollar company, you honestly think if something did go wrong someone wouldn't sue?

 

I am -- in fact -- a lawyer. And, look, you can always get sued. I assume that GS has general liability insurance to cover defense for this sort of nonsense. But, importantly, GS isn't a very ripe target. People sue where there's insurance and mostly not elsehwere. And you've got two likely defendants: the driver, of course. But even if you get past him, you've got the place that sold him alcohol, which is far more likely to carry insurance against this sort of risk. That GS's insurance doesn't cover it (let's assume that, although it's probably pretty darn broad), a plaintiff's lawyer mostly won't bother with it.

 

Seriously, when's the last time you heard Major League Baseball or the NFL getting sued for a DUI on the way home? It happens, but it makes headlines when it does, because it's vanishingly rare. And those guys are only targets because they have very, very deep pockets.

 

It's a distraction, sure. But for all the crazy lawsuits that do happen, the people that do get sued usually have *something* to do with the situation. GS suggesting people go by and have a pint isn't going to get them sued, even in the unlikely event someone later gets hurt.

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...there's a reason the average IQ is about 90.

By definition, the median modern IQ score is 100. I don't imagine the average is much different than that.

Of course, in any subset of society as a whole, the median and average could deviate from the overall scores.

 

Take the forums - the participants seem *way* above average. :grin:

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If you get a 100 people pub hopping to get lab caches odds are someone will get drunk and drive.

 

As for event caches at pubs, I still think it could become an issue but they are put up by individuals whereas lab caches are owned and managed by GS, a multi million dollar company, you honestly think if something did go wrong someone wouldn't sue?

 

I am -- in fact -- a lawyer. And, look, you can always get sued. I assume that GS has general liability insurance to cover defense for this sort of nonsense. But, importantly, GS isn't a very ripe target. People sue where there's insurance and mostly not elsehwere. And you've got two likely defendants: the driver, of course. But even if you get past him, you've got the place that sold him alcohol, which is far more likely to carry insurance against this sort of risk. That GS's insurance doesn't cover it (let's assume that, although it's probably pretty darn broad), a plaintiff's lawyer mostly won't bother with it.

 

Seriously, when's the last time you heard Major League Baseball or the NFL getting sued for a DUI on the way home? It happens, but it makes headlines when it does, because it's vanishingly rare. And those guys are only targets because they have very, very deep pockets.

 

It's a distraction, sure. But for all the crazy lawsuits that do happen, the people that do get sued usually have *something* to do with the situation. GS suggesting people go by and have a pint isn't going to get them sued, even in the unlikely event someone later gets hurt.

 

They aren't just suggesting it though, they are rewarding visiting the pubs with smilies and on top of that its posted on their website.

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If you get a 100 people pub hopping to get lab caches odds are someone will get drunk and drive.

 

As for event caches at pubs, I still think it could become an issue but they are put up by individuals whereas lab caches are owned and managed by GS, a multi million dollar company, you honestly think if something did go wrong someone wouldn't sue?

 

I am -- in fact -- a lawyer. And, look, you can always get sued. I assume that GS has general liability insurance to cover defense for this sort of nonsense. But, importantly, GS isn't a very ripe target. People sue where there's insurance and mostly not elsehwere. And you've got two likely defendants: the driver, of course. But even if you get past him, you've got the place that sold him alcohol, which is far more likely to carry insurance against this sort of risk. That GS's insurance doesn't cover it (let's assume that, although it's probably pretty darn broad), a plaintiff's lawyer mostly won't bother with it.

 

Seriously, when's the last time you heard Major League Baseball or the NFL getting sued for a DUI on the way home? It happens, but it makes headlines when it does, because it's vanishingly rare. And those guys are only targets because they have very, very deep pockets.

 

It's a distraction, sure. But for all the crazy lawsuits that do happen, the people that do get sued usually have *something* to do with the situation. GS suggesting people go by and have a pint isn't going to get them sued, even in the unlikely event someone later gets hurt.

 

They aren't just suggesting it though, they are rewarding visiting the pubs with smilies and on top of that its posted on their website.

 

But Roman!, aren't the biggest rewards the buzz and what you called "trying to start a family"?!

 

:D

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...there's a reason the average IQ is about 90.

By definition, the median modern IQ score is 100. I don't imagine the average is much different than that.

 

90, 100, most people I know are well above that, what's scary is the ones on the other end dumbing it down.

 

From what I see its below 90 and dropping every year.

 

world_IQ_over_time.gif

Edited by Roman!
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...there's a reason the average IQ is about 90.

By definition, the median modern IQ score is 100. I don't imagine the average is much different than that.

 

90, 100, most people I know are well above that, what's scary is the ones on the other end dumbing it down.

 

From what I see its below 90 and dropping every year.

 

world_IQ_over_time.gif

 

This is interesting because I had also heard that the median was 100 and it always stayed that way.

 

However, to be able to compare different years would be interesting. I would have thought that improved nutrition would be a factor in a general uptrend. However, this downward trend is discouraging.

 

That's quite an uptrend in India!

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Yeah yeah, your first day as king will eradicate lab caches and puzzles, you will flip a coin which order.

I did the winery lab cache in question and I have done the beer ones the last two years at Groundspeak. They have all been ones I could take my 5 year old to. He enjoyed the winery one, we found a frog on their property looking for their bonus traditional cache and he was just fine while the wife wine tasted (I sipped here and there).

Wine and beer are just some of the commercial places I have seen lab caches, have seen a space store, a marble and tile store, a visitor center, a lavendar store, a carnival, a car wash, a toy store, a library, a farmer's market, a stadium, an outdoor expo, an art museum, a garden, college campuses, a bookstore....why not a winery or brewery? I do not drink alcohol (minus a sip to try) and its not bothered me. Some of these are more fun for a kid but none of them have excluded him.

Edited by lamoracke
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Yeah yeah, your first day as king will eradicate lab caches and puzzles, you will flip a coin which order.

I did the winery lab cache in question and I have done the beer ones the last two years at Groundspeak. They have all been ones I could take my 5 year old to. He enjoyed the winery one, we found a frog on their property looking for their bonus traditional cache and he was just fine while the wife wine tasted (I sipped here and there).

Wine and beer are just some of the commercial places I have seen lab caches, have seen a space store, a marble and tile store, a visitor center, a lavendar store, a carnival, a car wash, a toy store, a library, a farmer's market, a stadium, an outdoor expo, an art museum, a garden, college campuses, a bookstore....why not a winery or brewery? I do not drink alcohol (minus a sip to try) and its not bothered me. Some of these are more fun for a kid but none of them have excluded him.

 

When I was 21 I was almost killed by a drunk driver that never drank but went to an office party, got pressured into a few drinks then got drunk and drove.

 

A smiley is a good reason to have that drink at the pub, 5 smilies, 5 drinks and your in no shape to make logical descisions.

 

You may never drink and drive, I know I won't but GS is creating the opportunity for lare amounts of people and some will.

Edited by Roman!
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If you get a 100 people pub hopping to get lab caches odds are someone will get drunk and drive.

 

As for event caches at pubs, I still think it could become an issue but they are put up by individuals whereas lab caches are owned and managed by GS, a multi million dollar company, you honestly think if something did go wrong someone wouldn't sue?

 

I am -- in fact -- a lawyer. And, look, you can always get sued. I assume that GS has general liability insurance to cover defense for this sort of nonsense. But, importantly, GS isn't a very ripe target. People sue where there's insurance and mostly not elsehwere. And you've got two likely defendants: the driver, of course. But even if you get past him, you've got the place that sold him alcohol, which is far more likely to carry insurance against this sort of risk. That GS's insurance doesn't cover it (let's assume that, although it's probably pretty darn broad), a plaintiff's lawyer mostly won't bother with it.

 

Seriously, when's the last time you heard Major League Baseball or the NFL getting sued for a DUI on the way home? It happens, but it makes headlines when it does, because it's vanishingly rare. And those guys are only targets because they have very, very deep pockets.

 

It's a distraction, sure. But for all the crazy lawsuits that do happen, the people that do get sued usually have *something* to do with the situation. GS suggesting people go by and have a pint isn't going to get them sued, even in the unlikely event someone later gets hurt.

 

They aren't just suggesting it though, they are rewarding visiting the pubs with smilies and on top of that its posted on their website.

There's a big difference between being invited to visit a pub and drinking at a pub. Where is drinking a part of getting the smilie? I've visited many wineries and brew pubs without drinking any alcohol. You sound like someone trying to find (or make) a problem where one doesn't exist.

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If you get a 100 people pub hopping to get lab caches odds are someone will get drunk and drive.

 

As for event caches at pubs, I still think it could become an issue but they are put up by individuals whereas lab caches are owned and managed by GS, a multi million dollar company, you honestly think if something did go wrong someone wouldn't sue?

 

I am -- in fact -- a lawyer. And, look, you can always get sued. I assume that GS has general liability insurance to cover defense for this sort of nonsense. But, importantly, GS isn't a very ripe target. People sue where there's insurance and mostly not elsehwere. And you've got two likely defendants: the driver, of course. But even if you get past him, you've got the place that sold him alcohol, which is far more likely to carry insurance against this sort of risk. That GS's insurance doesn't cover it (let's assume that, although it's probably pretty darn broad), a plaintiff's lawyer mostly won't bother with it.

 

Seriously, when's the last time you heard Major League Baseball or the NFL getting sued for a DUI on the way home? It happens, but it makes headlines when it does, because it's vanishingly rare. And those guys are only targets because they have very, very deep pockets.

 

It's a distraction, sure. But for all the crazy lawsuits that do happen, the people that do get sued usually have *something* to do with the situation. GS suggesting people go by and have a pint isn't going to get them sued, even in the unlikely event someone later gets hurt.

 

They aren't just suggesting it though, they are rewarding visiting the pubs with smilies and on top of that its posted on their website.

There's a big difference between being invited to visit a pub and drinking at a pub. Where is drinking a part of getting the smilie? I've visited many wineries and brew pubs without drinking any alcohol. You sound like someone trying to find (or make) a problem where one doesn't exist.

 

Why does McDonald's offer free coffee? Because once there people feel obliged to buy something, again, maybe not you, but many do.

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In no way shall Groundspeak Inc. nor any agent, officer, employee of Groundspeak Inc. or any geocaching community volunteer, be liable for any direct, indirect, punitive, or consequential damages arising out of, or in any way connected with the use of this website or use of the information contained within.

 

Seriously, people have to accept responsibility for their own actions. Groundspeak is not any more responsible than the winery, or anyone else. Yes, someone may drive drunk, but most wont. Restaurants may get sued if they serve someone who is visibly intoxicated, but I don't think that Groundspeak has a liquor license or is serving anyone. :D

 

c6ec3def7bbb11b6a06901ee454ed4da.jpg

 

brugse-beer.png

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/orange-county-craft-beer-geocache-site-established.63879/

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In no way shall Groundspeak Inc. nor any agent, officer, employee of Groundspeak Inc. or any geocaching community volunteer, be liable for any direct, indirect, punitive, or consequential damages arising out of, or in any way connected with the use of this website or use of the information contained within.

 

Seriously, people have to accept responsibility for their own actions. Groundspeak is not any more responsible than the winery, or anyone else. Yes, someone may drive drunk, but most wont. Restaurants may get sued if they serve someone who is visibly intoxicated, but I don't think that Groundspeak has a liquor license or is serving anyone. :D

 

c6ec3def7bbb11b6a06901ee454ed4da.jpg

 

brugse-beer.png

 

http://www.beeradvocate.com/community/threads/orange-county-craft-beer-geocache-site-established.63879/

 

They are rewarding people for visiting pubs when some, maybe most would not have otherwise and probably making money off the promotion, IMHO, not a good idea.

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Regardless of where you Cache there is a chance that you can find somewhere to buy alcohol. Does that mean all Caches have to be archived? No, it is left up to the individual to decide if they want to drink alcohol, nobody is forcing them.

This discussion is going nowhere, fast. Its about time to close it down.

One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.

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They are rewarding people for visiting pubs when some, maybe most would not have otherwise and probably making money off the promotion, IMHO, not a good idea.

 

I would worry about promotions involving food, as well as drink. People are slowly catching on that many commonly-served foods have excess calories, fat, salt, sugar, simple carbohydrates, etc. This is the new frontier, and rightly so. People suffering from obesity, high blood pressure, adult-onset diabetes, and clogged arteries are learning of the risks and the ways that the food industry keeps finding ways to tempt them.

 

Lawsuits and legislation have reigned-in the tobacco industry. The alcohol industry is wising-up by having "drink responsibly" in ads. Coffee vendors ignored years of burn accidents and continued to serve coffee at 190°F until the 3rd degree burn punitive damage case came along (case is a joke? You won't,say that after you see the victim's third degree burns requiring skin grafts - photos are online). Next in line? Food vendors. New York City considered banning those huge drinks with a ton of empty calories. The USA is today with junk food regulation where we were with tobacco say around 1980.

 

Personal responsibility? Great - but people have weaknesses and various industries exploit them.

 

Groundspeak enters unholy alliances with junk-food vendors at their own risk.

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Regardless of where you Cache there is a chance that you can find somewhere to buy alcohol. Does that mean all Caches have to be archived? No, it is left up to the individual to decide if they want to drink alcohol, nobody is forcing them.

This discussion is going nowhere, fast. Its about time to close it down.

One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.

 

IQs.

 

No need for the apostrophe.

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One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.

Would be interesting to see the source of that data, since the "Flynn effect" seems to indicate big gains in average IQ scores over the years (although it might be leveling out).

Yes, I thought the trend was up. You could theorize about possible causes - better nutrition, more intellectual stimulation at earlier ages, etc.

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Regardless of where you Cache there is a chance that you can find somewhere to buy alcohol. Does that mean all Caches have to be archived? No, it is left up to the individual to decide if they want to drink alcohol, nobody is forcing them.

This discussion is going nowhere, fast. Its about time to close it down.

One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.

 

IQs.

 

No need for the apostrophe.

 

I'm actually going to disagree with you. :o

 

The sentence could be read as "IQs" (plural) or as "IQ is."

 

I meant it as "IQ is," & so I stand by my spelling.

 

Why? Because the sentence refers to *average* IQ (singular!), so it reads "... a chart showing average IQ is in decline." The "average IQ is" becomes "average IQ's."

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One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.

Having just reviewed the accompanying article to the chart Roman provided, I don't put too much faith in the "paper" and the resulting speculation. http://uhaweb.hartford.edu/BRBAKER/

 

Also bear in mind that most IQ comparision results are normalized to IQ 100, thus the noted confusion with the perception of the "average IQ" being 100.

When current IQ tests are developed, the median raw score of the norming sample is defined as IQ 100 and scores each standard deviation (SD) up or down are defined as 15 IQ points greater or less, although this was not always so historically.
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Regardless of where you Cache there is a chance that you can find somewhere to buy alcohol. Does that mean all Caches have to be archived? No, it is left up to the individual to decide if they want to drink alcohol, nobody is forcing them.

This discussion is going nowhere, fast. Its about time to close it down.

One of the most interesting things to me was up around post 31 or so when there was a side discussion with a chart showing average IQ's in decline year-by-year.

 

IQs.

 

No need for the apostrophe.

 

I'm actually going to disagree with you. :o

 

The sentence could be read as "IQs" (plural) or as "IQ is."

 

I meant it as "IQ is," & so I stand by my spelling.

 

Why? Because the sentence refers to *average* IQ (singular!), so it reads "... a chart showing average IQ is in decline." The "average IQ is" becomes "average IQ's."

 

Then I would question your need for the contraction in the first place. Why not just write "IQ is" instead of IQ's?

 

Plural would be valid, though. One could argue you are discussing averages amongst groups of people.

 

I do confess to being a bit "trigger happy" whenever I see people using apostrophes. :anibad:

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IQ is a normed metric with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 16 points (i.e. an IQ score of 132 is two standard deviations above the mean and usually considered a benchmark for exceptional intelligence).

 

IQ test scores tend to increase over time, so the tests themselves are periodically adjusted to bring them back in line with the normed scoring.

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