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Hoffamily

How do I deal with a cachet who seems to be very critical of my hides?

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We are new to Geocaching, but not new to Orienteering, as we were merit badge Councilors for over 10 years. We own the Magellan explorist GC, iPhone, Garmin Handheld and an android phone. The phones get us, usually within 30 feet of a find. This seems to be the accepted norm when using the Geocaching Apps. I have both on my phone. Shhhhh I prefer the intro app because I can see all hides with out having to SEARCH for hides in a concentrated area with the paid app.

 

We have been geocaching for a little over a month and have found 100 caches during that time. We geocache as a Family under our name. Our son is 15 and is starting to get the FUMES.(Car fumes and perFuME!) we chose this family hobby because it interested him. Geocaching friends encouraged him to start making and hiding caches. He was surprised and delighted.

 

Here is where this got strange for us. He made 3 caches, followed guidelines, etc. I submitted them, got a boatload of reviewer's notes that made sense, rewrote descriptions, etc. finally they were approved.

 

A local cacher couldn't find one,posted a DNF stating the coordinates were way off. We replied that he was looking in wrong area because he misread the description and gave a HUGE hint.

 

Local cacher went back, found the cache and then wrote a log saying the cache coordinates were off and that there was a dead animal there! No dead animal!!!!

I watched him!! He didn't know. He used his phone to find the hide.

 

Here is where it gets weird. Cacher holds 100+ caches in my home area. We found many of his caches that had coordinates that put us over 30 feet away. We did not comment on this in logs or to him. So, after he posted comments stating our coordinates were off on all three of our caches we came upon one if his that was off. We logged his coordinates were off, but easy to find. Did he take it in stride like we did? Nope! Emailed us telling us out phones were off! Then went about schooling us on how GPS's work and that our kind- the one MADE for Geocaching- was up to 150 feet off.

 

I emailed back that we appreciated his input. But, he is acting as though we had no reason to make the coordinate remark on the log on his cache.

 

Here is my issue. Do I edit my log on his cache and put Found It.?

Or, do I let the current log stand?

 

We are trying to teach our children to get along with others. We are also trying to teach our children to stand their ground when they believe they are correct.

Edited by Hoffamily

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No reason to edit it. I guess my only suggestion is instead of saying "your coordinates are off", maybe just say "my device put the posted coordinates 30 feet from GZ" or something like that. You could even put coordinates for the cache as you record them in your log and let others decide which ones they want to use. I've seen that many times and often folks will say something like "found using the coordinates in _____'s log". Telling someone their coordinates are off becomes a 'right vs. wrong' thing, whereas saying your device told you differently acknowledges there is always a degree of imprecision in the various devices people use and that your own device gave you so-and-so coordinates when you found the cache.

Edited by J Grouchy

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No reason to edit it. I guess my only suggestion is instead of saying "your coordinates are off", maybe just say "my device put the posted coordinates 30 feet from GZ" or something like that. You could even put coordinates for the cache as you record them in your log and let others decide which ones they want to use. I've seen that many times and often folks will say something like "found using the coordinates in _____'s log". Telling someone their coordinates are off becomes a 'right vs. wrong' thing, whereas saying your device told you differently acknowledges there is always a degree of imprecision in the various devices people use and that your own device gave you so-and-so coordinates when you found the cache.

 

Yes, this is a more diplomatic way of stating the same thing. I have often used coordinates posted by another finder (one in particular) and have stated in my log that "I used CacherX's coordinates which were spot on, as always."

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Thanks! I didn't write it in a hurtful manner. I think it works. In future I'll use this way of logging.

Edited by Hoffamily

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I generally don't mention that coords are "off" if they are within 30-40 feet and everything else seems fine. When you account for any variance in the accurracy of all GPSr's involved - the one used by the hider and then the one used by the seeker - on any given day under various circumstances and conditions, the combined deviation from the true coordinates can easily be 30' or more.

 

Now, if there are other factors, that changes things. If the coords seem off and the description and/or hint clearly indicates a different spot, then I will diplomatically mention my findings. It could be bad numbers or the cache may have been moved from where the CO meant it to be. In any case, I won't say what, if anything, is wrong. I'll just say what I experienced and let the CO decide what to do.

 

As far as others making comments about coords on my caches, I generally ignore them if it is an isolated incident. If I have a few reports of it, or there is other info on the log that makes me concerned, then I'll check to ensure the cache is still where I left it and, if it is, I will reshoot my numbers. But I am NOT gonna get into an argument about it. It is absolutely pointless. There are way too many folks out there that think the coords should always put them right on the cache. They simply don't (won't?) understand that it doesn't work that way. Then there are the arrogant ones that think that if THEIR gizmo doesn't read 0', then YOUR coords MUST be wrong.

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When coordinates are out for me, I will often mention it in the log because I know how much I appreciate it when others mention that coords are off. Especially when they either provide their own coords or they say how many meters/feet the cache was off for them. But I always say that the cache was off x meters for me.

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There's people who will complain about anything even if they have to make it up. Don't worry about it.

 

and that our kind- the one MADE for Geocaching- was up to 150 feet off.

 

 

The fact that you have the Explorist GC which is made for geocaching has no effect on accuracy. As geocachers we have very high demands for our GPS units, looking for something as small as one inch square. So any GPS could be off, free phone app or $800 high end GPS with built in camera.

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It could be bad numbers or the cache may have been moved from where the CO meant it to be. In any case, I won't say what, if anything, is wrong. I'll just say what I experienced and let the CO decide what to do.

QFT

 

In our area the local Explorist and Garmin GPSrs are close but can "emperically" differ by a bias up to 8 meters, so depending what GPSr you use to search and what GPSr they hid it with, allows "adjustment" for the search, if indeed required.

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I'd leave the log and ignore him/her

 

Go out and have fun finding caches.

 

Any more difficulty with that cacher and you could put them on your ignore list so you don't have to deal any more. I had dealings with someone that was continually telling everyone that the co-ords were off, and folks should be more careful when hiding. I even went out for coffee with them to explain, and search for some caches together to show how there is often a variance in GPSr readings. Didn't help. This cacher finally got tired of telling everyone that they were not submitting good coordinates, and quit caching.

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I had dealings with someone that was continually telling everyone that the co-ords were off, and folks should be more careful when hiding. I even went out for coffee with them to explain, and search for some caches together to show how there is often a variance in GPSr readings. Didn't help. This cacher finally got tired of telling everyone that they were not submitting good coordinates, and quit caching.

 

Sounds like a bit of a "control freak"...not a good fit for such a pastime. Should take him to some benchmarks where the coordinates are almost literally set in stone and let him tell the UGS their coordinates are off.

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We are trying to teach our children to get along with others. We are also trying to teach our children to stand their ground when they believe they are correct.

First of all, please do not teach your children to "stand their ground" for something as trivial as a disagreement about coordinate accuracy. If someone contests your coordinates, the solution is more evidence. In the case of a new cache, that's normally supplied by subsequent seekers, although of course proactively taking fresh measurements and asking a third party to check are good ideas, too. What makes no sense is "standing your ground" based on nothing other than the fact that you got a different answer than the other person. Without more evidence, you should always assume there's as much chance of you being wrong as him.

 

Another important lesson here is to remember that criticism is not insult. This remains true even when criticism is expressed as insult, something all too common in geocaching as well as society as a whole. If someone criticizes your hide, always focus on what the complaint is, and always ignore how the complaint is expressed. Almost everyone is trying to be help you do better even when they have trouble thinking about how best to do that. (And what's more, in the rare case where someone is intentionally being insulting because they are just mean, that's even more reason not to give them the satisfaction of being insulted.)

 

That's my advice while taking your post at face value. Now one more comment reading between the lines: it's likely that your coordinates really are bad, so ask someone to check them with you. Want to make lemonade? Ask the guy you're complaining about to meet you at GZ and help you nail down the right coordinates. Whether he's right or wrong, it should be instructive to see how he goes about making sure a set of coordinates are accurate, and you might make a new friend. Someone with lots of hides in the area is a good friend to have, even if you still find him abrasive after meeting him.

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We have chosen to handle this be ignoring rude or unkind behavior. Life is too short to worry about this or any hobby. I was frustrated yesterday when I wrote the original post. Now I am trying to hold my tongue about anything that person or any other person has said about geocaching or my parenting skills.

 

I did learn that forums are not the answer or cure all. I'm going out to find some caches this evening. Have fun everyone. I hope you can find enjoyment in this fantastic hobby.

 

Thank you everyone for your comments.

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I did learn that forums are not the answer or cure all.

You learned a good lesson :) There are almost always disagreements in the forums, and some people's stance are on the extreme end.

 

Yeah, just let it go and don't let the other cacher affect your fun. Happy geocaching!

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Like you said it is a great hobbie and game. I wouldn't let this cacher get to you. I also would not make enemies with him/her. This is a game we all play together. If this cacher has a 100 hides in the area chances are they have friends and I wouldn't want to get on there bad side. We are the most mellow people ever and have ran into a few conflicts over the years in this game. It happens. I also find cachers will log stuff or post stuff here that seem rude but when you meet them in person they are really nice. Just enjoy the game and find and hide caches. The couple of cachers I have had conflict with I just try and make sure I log there caches as I would one from someone I never met. So in your case here. If you wouldn't point out there coords were off if it was from another cacher that didn't point out your coords off I wouldn't do it. If you would have anyways then do it. I wouldn't make it personal.

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We are trying to teach our children to get along with others. We are also trying to teach our children to stand their ground when they believe they are correct.

First of all, please do not teach your children to "stand their ground" for something as trivial as a disagreement about coordinate accuracy. If someone contests your coordinates, the solution is more evidence. In the case of a new cache, that's normally supplied by subsequent seekers, although of course proactively taking fresh measurements and asking a third party to check are good ideas, too. What makes no sense is "standing your ground" based on nothing other than the fact that you got a different answer than the other person. Without more evidence, you should always assume there's as much chance of you being wrong as him.

 

Another important lesson here is to remember that criticism is not insult. This remains true even when criticism is expressed as insult, something all too common in geocaching as well as society as a whole. If someone criticizes your hide, always focus on what the complaint is, and always ignore how the complaint is expressed. Almost everyone is trying to be help you do better even when they have trouble thinking about how best to do that. (And what's more, in the rare case where someone is intentionally being insulting because they are just mean, that's even more reason not to give them the satisfaction of being insulted.)

 

That's my advice while taking your post at face value. Now one more comment reading between the lines: it's likely that your coordinates really are bad, so ask someone to check them with you. Want to make lemonade? Ask the guy you're complaining about to meet you at GZ and help you nail down the right coordinates. Whether he's right or wrong, it should be instructive to see how he goes about making sure a set of coordinates are accurate, and you might make a new friend. Someone with lots of hides in the area is a good friend to have, even if you still find him abrasive after meeting him.

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Dproven that is such great and insightful advice.

Edited by Geo-mule

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