+Reef Monster Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 (edited) I'm planning a trip to Bangkok for some caching and there is a player named JamieZel who has around 280 caches across the area. Thing is, he hasn't logged into the site for about 14 months and there are numerous posts about the logs being full. Maybe he has become too old to get out in the streets to maintain his caches? I don't leave for a few months. I was thinking of trying to contact him to see if I could help with changing out some logs during my stay. If I can't raise him, do you think it's be OK to rehab his little caches? I can't inherit them because I live 6,000+ miles away and only get there every 2 years. So, the questions: If I can't find him, do you think it's OK to change out the logs to keep them going? Many geocachers go to Bangkok. But many can only post a photo because the log is chock full, a mushy mess from water or just plain missing from the container. If so, should I hold onto the old logs in case he surfaces in the future and mail them to him if he wants them? When I was working through the Silom area a few years ago, I found some and the magnet had fallen out, so took it back to the hotel room for a spot of Gorilla Glue, then returning them the next day. That's my troubling thoughts for this morning. I look forward to your opinions on the subject. Edited September 28, 2014 by dougbromac Quote Link to comment
+Panther&Pine Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 If you want to... I probably wouldn't. Caches have a life span, let them die naturally. Quote Link to comment
+Bear and Ragged Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Sounds like the CO is no longer in the game... Needs Maintenance. Needs Archived. Go and find it/them and CITO. They can be logged after Archiving. / Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Up to you. You really wanna replace "around 280" cache logs, go ahead. Me, I'd bring a sharpie and write over an old sig. then add a NM after my found it. Quote Link to comment
+Harry Dolphin Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Posting a photo is not an acceptable method of logging a cache. NM. If the CO doesn't do the required maintenance, the next step is NA. Quote Link to comment
+WarNinjas Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Its up to you if you want to change them out. I wouldn't worry about saving the old ones as if the CO hasn't responded to full log request or other problems the odds of him/her coming back mad about the replacement and wanting to audit log sheets sounds unlikely. Or you could snap a pic of the log and then if something came of it you could email the logs but I don't think that will happen. Quote Link to comment
+GeoLog81 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 If the player doesn't play anymore, logging NM means literarily destroying that caches, so no future visitor will have a chance to find them. They are unlikely to be replaced by someone else. It's encouraged by guidelines, but don't expect people to thank you for that, just the opposite, you risk being 'that guy who destroy that cache'. You can replace the log and live on. You can just log online and live on. But if you log NM when you know the owner won't be able to manage it, you could actually remove the container as well, because otherwise it will stay there although the cache will be no longer listed. Just to be sure you know the consequences. Quote Link to comment
+SageTracey Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 And what happens next time the logs are full or damp? Replacing them for an inactive owner simply prolongs the life of these caches and prevents them from being archived and the area being made available to active owners. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) If the player doesn't play anymore, logging NM means literarily destroying that caches, so no future visitor will have a chance to find them. They are unlikely to be replaced by someone else. It's encouraged by guidelines, but don't expect people to thank you for that, just the opposite, you risk being 'that guy who destroy that cache'. You can replace the log and live on. You can just log online and live on. But if you log NM when you know the owner won't be able to manage it, you could actually remove the container as well, because otherwise it will stay there although the cache will be no longer listed. Just to be sure you know the consequences. This kind of attitude makes me shudder We had some caches around here which were abandoned - crappy, broken containers with stinking paper pulp in the bottom. After I found them I read back through a few previous logs and saw that one of them was the very first cache found by a German cacher who had come over to the UK on vacation. I was ashamed that this was the very first cache he found over here and thought about the low, low impression that must have given of UK cachers, that they would leave such a piece of junk out for someone to find - just for the sake of that one more smiley - rather than stepping up to the plate by posting an NA and getting it cleared off the map like it should be. But then you always get attitudes like the one above that seem to think it's cooler to leave crappy containers full of stinking paper pulp out there to be found because they'll be grateful for that one more smiley, right? Unreal *edit to fix typo Edited September 29, 2014 by Team Microdot Quote Link to comment
+GeoLog81 Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 We had some caches around here which were abandoned - crappy, broken containers with stinking paper pulp in the bottom. Were there the only caches in your country or were there other? Because if in your country there are at least some active cachers that are placing their own caches, then there's no reason not to remove unmanaged ones. However, if some country has no own cachers, and the only caches are placed by one-time visitors, NM-ing those caches means that that country will not have any caches at all. Community mainanance for such caches is the only option to have them at all. Quote Link to comment
+Team Microdot Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Are JamiZel's caches the only caches in his country? Nope. So you can just go ahead and find caches over there by someone else - someone who is active and maintains their caches AND if the abandoned caches get archived then MAYBE some new caches will spring up to replace them. In any case - posts made here with veiled threats about consequences for people following the guidelines and posting NM and NA logs are likely do more to harm the game than help it - just to be sure you know the consequences Quote Link to comment
+BCandMsKitty Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 (edited) If the player doesn't play anymore, logging NM means literarily destroying that caches, so no future visitor will have a chance to find them. They are unlikely to be replaced by someone else. It's encouraged by guidelines, but don't expect people to thank you for that, just the opposite, you risk being 'that guy who destroy that cache'. You can replace the log and live on. You can just log online and live on. But if you log NM when you know the owner won't be able to manage it, you could actually remove the container as well, because otherwise it will stay there although the cache will be no longer listed. Just to be sure you know the consequences. HUH? Since when does a NM log remove a cache from being listed? And if the CO doesn't respond, then the local reviewer will probably get involved somewhere down the line, and the cache(s) should die! Leaving wet, moldy, unsignable caches does no one any good! Doesn't matter where they are in the world! Edited September 29, 2014 by BC & MsKitty Quote Link to comment
+WarNinjas Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 My daughter wanted to take her rainbow group out caching as she loves the game and had to plan a event for the group. We were planning on placing a Wherigo for them but came up a little short on getting it done in time. I felt so bad because at the last min she decided to just take them around to some local caches to show them how cool the game was. Well they ended up busing to 3 of them. The first 2 she said were obviously missing by the DNF's and they couldn't find them. Then they got to the 3rd one and it was a blinkie. The log was full so they couldn't even sign it. I remember her saying that she thought if even there was room on the log for them to sign they might have thought it was cool but instead it was all just a big disappointment. It made me think about how little I might think a full log in a blinkie might be it could change many peoples impression of the game. So leaving out a cache that will eventually get a full log that is never taken care of could really mess up some fun for others. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Posting a photo is not an acceptable method of logging a cache. NM. If the CO doesn't do the required maintenance, the next step is NA. Whether posting a photo to substantiate a find is acceptable or not is completely up to the cache owner. Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I don't see a full log as much of a maintenance issue. If you want to replace them, go ahead. Leave the old log in the cache. If there isn't room for it and the cache owner doesn't respond to you, toss the old log in the trash. If you find caches that have a broken container and are soaked, post a NM. A new log isn't going to resolve the need for owner maintenance. Quote Link to comment
+L0ne.R Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 If the player doesn't play anymore, logging NM means literarily destroying that caches, so no future visitor will have a chance to find them. They are unlikely to be replaced by someone else. It's encouraged by guidelines, but don't expect people to thank you for that, just the opposite, you risk being 'that guy who destroy that cache'. You can replace the log and live on. You can just log online and live on. But if you log NM when you know the owner won't be able to manage it, you could actually remove the container as well, because otherwise it will stay there although the cache will be no longer listed. Just to be sure you know the consequences. This kind of attitude makes me shudder We had some caches around here which were abandoned - crappy, broken containers with stinking paper pulp in the bottom. After I found them I read back through a few previous logs and saw that one of them was the very first cache found by a German cacher who had come over to the UK on vacation. I was ashamed that this was the very first cache he found over here and thought about the low, low impression that must have given of UK cachers, that they would leave such a piece of junk out for someone to find - just for the sake of that one more smiley - rather than stepping up to the plate by posting an NA and getting it cleared off the map like it should be. But then you always get attitudes like the one above that seem to think it's cooler to leave crappy containers full of stinking paper pulp out there to be found because they'll be grateful for that one more smiley, right? Unreal *edit to fix typo ++++++ 1! Exactly. A little pride in quality cache experiences is a good thing for the community. I never understand why people put a fresh log into a stinking moldy broken container and think they've done something positive for the community. Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 If the player doesn't play anymore, logging NM means literarily destroying that caches, so no future visitor will have a chance to find them. They are unlikely to be replaced by someone else. Caches are not permanent. They go away all the time. The fact that a cache might get archived is not relevant. Quote Link to comment
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