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Travel Bug Hotel technique?


infiniteMPG

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Looks like another of my travel bug motels (premium only as always) has been snagged along with some precious TB's of people around the world. Really grinds my cookies! So got me thinking and wanted to run this idea by some GC folks and see what bounces back. This is my latest idea for a TB hotel....

 

A full sized ammo can or similar with a latch/locking lid. Going to cable tie it to a tree or something so the container couldn't be snagged short of cutting the tree down or bringing bolt cutters along. A combination lock would lock the lid shut. There would be a micro cache attached to the ammo can with a log sheet. If someone wanted to drop off or pick up TB's they request the combination and when they arrive they can access the TB's. If they just wanted to get the smilie they can just sign the log book on the side. But each week (or so) we'd change the combination to the lock.

 

We have sadly had to report MIA TB's that are really special things for folks and want to find a way to make a secure TB exchange locations. Totally open for suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Guidelines prohibit requiring a cacher having to contact a owner to find a cache. All info to access a cache must be on the page.

 

The way I read the OP, the cache is actually a micro cache OUTSIDE the locked ammo can - which can be signed with zero contact with the CO - so OK under the guidelines.

 

Contact with the CO is only required for those wishing to drop off or collect TB's from inside the locked ammo can.

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Also since no one reads the description prior to finding a traditional they would get there without the combination. I still don't think a reviewer would approve this. Requiring contact to get inside the container as opposed to logging the micro is to fine a line. But give it a shot and let us know.

 

You can hardly blame the CO for the cacher not getting all the information they need before going out. The description is there for a reason and if cacher needs to go back a second time because they didn't get information provided easily by CO then that's their bad luck.

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I've seen a TB hotel that was a locked box, where the key was hidden nearby. I've seen other locked caches as well, where figuring out the lock combination was part of a puzzle. I've seen TB hotels that weren't locked, but that were in relatively secure locations, where someone was usually nearby to keep an eye on them.

 

I think something like that would be better for a TB hotel than needing to contact the owner to access the trackable storage compartment. I certainly wouldn't leave a trackable in a TB hotel that require obtaining the combination from the CO in advance. What good is a TB hotel if no one is going to be able to access the TBs inside?

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"Premium as always" doesn't seem to be working, huh?

There's many here who swear it helps...

 

Not sure a Reviewer will okay a TB prison.

If someone has to request to access other's trackables (they're not yours...), doubt it'd pass.

 

If "another one" is missing, rather than hold other's Trackables hostage, maybe it's time to give it a rest a bit.

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Looks like another of my travel bug motels (premium only as always) has been snagged along with some precious TB's of people around the world. Really grinds my cookies! So got me thinking and wanted to run this idea by some GC folks and see what bounces back. This is my latest idea for a TB hotel....

 

A full sized ammo can or similar with a latch/locking lid. Going to cable tie it to a tree or something so the container couldn't be snagged short of cutting the tree down or bringing bolt cutters along. A combination lock would lock the lid shut. There would be a micro cache attached to the ammo can with a log sheet. If someone wanted to drop off or pick up TB's they request the combination and when they arrive they can access the TB's. If they just wanted to get the smilie they can just sign the log book on the side. But each week (or so) we'd change the combination to the lock.

 

We have sadly had to report MIA TB's that are really special things for folks and want to find a way to make a secure TB exchange locations. Totally open for suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Unfortunately the idea of leaving something out for people to find doesn't sit well with "secure". It's the nature of the beast.

 

Yes, people grow to regard TBs as special but ultimately if you're not willing to think of it as being like folding a $10 bill into a paper plane and throwing it from a tall building just to see where it ends up you probably shouldn't be releasing TBs. The very nature of putting them in containers hidden where anyone can find them and where the coordinates are made freely available means that some of the people who find them will be people who steal them.

 

In theory you could build some totally solid container where people could drop off TBs and you could grant access to them by prior request. But that rather defeats the point of trackables - they are supposed to travel rather than being tied up until some random person deems another player worthy of taking them away. And even if you could get such a thing build, and even if you could get it past the reviewers (unlikely, for reasons already mentioned), how would you vet someone wanting access? Anyone can create a caching account, and if you open the secure box to let a cacher retrieve a couple of trackables (you'd also become a self-appointed trackable cop, determining how many people could take at once, which would probably fall foul of another rule) what's to say you didn't just remove them from a secure location and hand them to someone who will take them home and never move them on?

 

The bottom line is there's no way to make a trackable secure, short of not releasing it at all.

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Looks like another of my travel bug motels (premium only as always) has been snagged along with some precious TB's of people around the world. Really grinds my cookies! So got me thinking and wanted to run this idea by some GC folks and see what bounces back. This is my latest idea for a TB hotel....

 

A full sized ammo can or similar with a latch/locking lid. Going to cable tie it to a tree or something so the container couldn't be snagged short of cutting the tree down or bringing bolt cutters along. A combination lock would lock the lid shut. There would be a micro cache attached to the ammo can with a log sheet. If someone wanted to drop off or pick up TB's they request the combination and when they arrive they can access the TB's. If they just wanted to get the smilie they can just sign the log book on the side. But each week (or so) we'd change the combination to the lock.

 

We have sadly had to report MIA TB's that are really special things for folks and want to find a way to make a secure TB exchange locations. Totally open for suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I think you need to ask your Reviewer about this concept.

 

But I think it is not very helpful for people visiting your area, or passing through, who would like to drop off trackables at a cache where they would have to email you to be able to access the larger cache.

 

Also, have considered how many emails you would have to deal with? And how cranky people would get if you didn't respond to those emails promptly?

 

What happens if you go on vacation, or have some health issues?

 

 

B.

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I understand a lot of comments and just trying to find a way to allow accessibility but keep it from being snagged. There have been other cachers in the area who created TB hotels at rest areas on the interstate and they were constantly muggled yet they were in areas where they wouldn't be easily stumbled upon, pretty sure it was cachers. The premium only does help, I can attest to that, but geocaching is a slice of life and, unfortunately, that includes folks who don't mind dumping $25/year to run around and snag hundred$ in collectables, trackables and containers. Living here in west central Florida we get tons of snowbirds and visitors so add that traffic on top of the locals and trust me, having 389 hides I see most all of it. Have full sized in remote places that are nice and safe, but that doesn't do well as a spot to drop a TB near the interstate or airport. But when you do that it only takes one unsavory character to ruin a lot of fun for a lot of folks. Trying to find a way to balance those two things... open for suggestions.

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Hmmm, just had an odd thought. Would think folks that are of the mindset to sniper in on a cache with bad intent aren't the cream of the geocaching crop. So maybe a simple field puzzle so the container isn't at the listed coords would be enough to dissuade the crude from completing their mission.... Might work. Ya think?

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Hmmm, just had an odd thought. Would think folks that are of the mindset to sniper in on a cache with bad intent aren't the cream of the geocaching crop. So maybe a simple field puzzle so the container isn't at the listed coords would be enough to dissuade the crude from completing their mission.... Might work. Ya think?

 

That might work. I have one on my property that's secured to a tree and to steal the container would be a major undertaking. It was pad locked and had a key nearby....still before I made it PMO it got cleaned out. I made it PMO and put a combo lock on it with unlocking numbers on the cache page.....for several years now I have had no problem.

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Hmmm, just had an odd thought. Would think folks that are of the mindset to sniper in on a cache with bad intent aren't the cream of the geocaching crop. So maybe a simple field puzzle so the container isn't at the listed coords would be enough to dissuade the crude from completing their mission.... Might work. Ya think?

 

You could put a combination lock on the box and use stages of a puzzle to provide the combination. As long as you had a way of changing it reasonably frequently and the stages weren't too far apart, it would make it harder for the casual thief to just swing by and take everything. If you had a few local people willing to help you could even have them put a card with "A=5" (or whatever) on it in their window, and the cache would then have a combination code of ABCD. People could find it with or without your direct involvement, and you could change the code every few days so people couldn't just get the code once and then visit later to empty the cache.

 

It won't stop people coming back later to get the latest code and empty the cache, it just makes it more of an effort for them. Sadly the process will take more effort from you as well.

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who created TB hotels at rest areas on the interstate and they were constantly muggled yet they were in areas where they wouldn't be easily stumbled upon, pretty sure it was cachers.

 

I think this idea is just silly.

 

Caches in rest areas are removed by security, you know, the people who are paid to notice and follow up on odd activity, and by assorted folks who wander around, like geocachers, in the odd off beat areas; kids, homeless, the restless, the bored. The southbound rest area near me is a notorious pickle park, those guys are hunting the same obscurity as the cachers (for the third time, I've seen a cache owner abandon a hide in that rest area, some encounters just not worth it for a smiley). Add a lock or cable, and the more official types will simply use their "official key", ie, bolt cutters. Front load it with a puzzle, and the TBs will rot down waiting on cachers, while the cache itself will still be found and taken.

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Assuming your very last traditional cache hide? (man, you have a lot of caches :lol:) I'm actually sort of surprised someone who has been around as long you with as many hides would "blame cachers". Then again, this is the intro app era. But I digress. This one looks to me to be 100 feet off of a Lowe's parking lot in some bushes and shrubery. Random muggling can and will happen.

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Blame cachers for the rest area raids? Hmmm, container deep in wooded area away from rest area not anywhere that someone would stumble across, not in an area that it touched by landscapers, container still in place, swag still in place, trackables all gone... you're right, it's probably some muggles who just have an appetite for shiny coins and doesn't want ammo cans. Okay, not "cachers", just someone with a GC account who can keep tabs on inventories and target just those cachers. But definitely not someone I'd call a "geocacher".

 

Mine I put on my own stupidity, too easy to stumble across I agree. Was a quick replacement for one around the back that they just started clearing land for a new development. The land clearing included GZ by 10-feet, literally 10-feet away it was left as woods.

 

Was just looking for a TB hotel technique and couldn't care too much if it was geocachers or some ravenous cache eating gator, was looking for a good way to keep it safe, secure, and still urban. Not one for placing a cache for the sake of a cache, but need an interstate accessible TB hide techique and open for suggestions.

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Blame cachers for the rest area raids? Hmmm, container deep in wooded area away from rest area not anywhere that someone would stumble across, not in an area that it touched by landscapers, container still in place, swag still in place, trackables all gone... you're right, it's probably some muggles who just have an appetite for shiny coins and doesn't want ammo cans. Okay, not "cachers", just someone with a GC account who can keep tabs on inventories and target just those cachers. But definitely not someone I'd call a "geocacher".

 

If the container is still in place with all the swag but no trackables it's almost certainly a geocacher who took the trackables - I'd expect a muggle to either take everything or just take the things that appealed to them. That could easily mean taking the trackables and leaving the swag, if the trackable items were interesting and the swag uninteresting.

 

That doesn't mean one geocacher came along and took all the trackables, it could easily be a slower process and could easily include a new cacher who didn't realise how trackables operate. I've seen a few logs over the years that say things like "Took travel bug TB1234" where the cacher subsequently logged "Left travel bug TB1234", and of course all the while the system things the travel bug is in the first cache.

 

If it's a geocacher how would your proposals to require pre-approval to take trackables help anything? If you were to visit the site with the cacher, stand over them and note which trackables they took, and write a note on the cache so everybody knew who took which trackables, how would it help? If they wanted to steal them they could just pick a random cache and claim to have dropped the trackables in the cache, and wait for them to be marked missing as it became clear they were "no longer" in the cache. If you're not planning to visit with every pre-approved cacher then unless you visit very frequently how would you deal with the cacher who jumps through whatever hoops you put in front of them, gets the code, and then contacts you to say the lock was broken and there weren't any trackables in the cache? Would you know whether it was a visitor before them, or whether they'd gone through the motions so you wouldn't suspect them of taking them all?

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Blame cachers for the rest area raids? Hmmm, container deep in wooded area away from rest area not anywhere that someone would stumble across
How do you know that? Seriously, how do you know that? I often find indications of various non-geocaching activities near geocaches, no mater how obscure the location is.

 

If the container is still in place with all the swag but no trackables it's almost certainly a geocacher who took the trackables - I'd expect a muggle to either take everything or just take the things that appealed to them. That could easily mean taking the trackables and leaving the swag, if the trackable items were interesting and the swag uninteresting.

 

That doesn't mean one geocacher came along and took all the trackables, it could easily be a slower process and could easily include a new cacher who didn't realise how trackables operate. I've seen a few logs over the years that say things like "Took travel bug TB1234" where the cacher subsequently logged "Left travel bug TB1234", and of course all the while the system things the travel bug is in the first cache.

When I introduce new people to geocaching, they often want to trade for the cool toys or shiny medallions. Then I remind them what I told them about TBs and geocoins earlier. If an experienced geocacher hadn't been there, then they would have traded for (and kept) the trackables.

 

And these are people who received an in-person explanation of geocaching, complete with hands-on examples of containers and trackables. Someone who just downloaded an app might be even more likely to trade for a trackable.

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I like that you're trying to think of creative ways to make travelers more secure. I've come to the conclusion that any idea that makes people read the cache page is a good thing, since that blocks the intro app users from taking a geocoin without having any idea what it is. Years ago conventional wisdom called for leaving travelers near interstate rest areas or airports for easy transfer, but I don't think that's a good idea anymore. My latest experiment has been making very easy puzzle caches in spots unlikely to be found by muggles, but that's not been working out too well either. I have two new caches that have had bugs stranded for a few weeks now. I might have to pick them up and try something else.

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I don't think it's a good idea, but it's hard to see how a reviewer could reject it. The description could be "This cache is a micro. By the way, it's attached to a locked box, and I'll give you the combination if you ask for it." The fact that you think people will trade TBs there is completely irrelevant to approval, as far as I can see.

 

The reason I don't like it is that it's contrary to the purpose of TB hotels. Only people invested in the area will get the combination. People passing through likely won't notice that combination requirement at all, and even if they do, they won't be in a position to interact with you to get the combination. None of that's bad, I just think it means that it won't often be used to trade TBs.

 

Furthermore, if you think your caches are being plundered by a geocacher, then that same geocacher will be just as able as any other geocacer to get the combination from you.

 

On the other hand, if your problem isn't a geocacher, then you can just put the combination in the description and the hint (especially the hint) to avoid people having to interact with you. I've seen that done on some TB hotels, and I can't think of any reason a simple "field puzzle" like that would be an obstacle for approval.

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If it's really being targeted then I don't think you can make an ammo can secure enough to prevent TBs being stolen from it. However well you chain it to a tree/rock, all that needs to be done is to make a gap in the lid large enough to allow the TBs/coins to be shaken out, I reckon a lump hammer or a large screwdriver/small prybar would be all that's required, after which you've lost the TBs and you're down an ammo can. Alternatively unless you spend a lot of money on a combination lock then they're not difficult to pick (I did one cache where there were a 40-50 capsules containing slips of paper, only one of them had the combination for the lock, it was quicker to pick the lock than to search for the combination). For that reason I think you should forget all about it, as you're just going to end up losing more TBs.

 

However if you do want to pursue the idea, why not make it an offset multi? Go to X, find co-ords for Y and Z, go to Y and find the combination, go to Z and find the locked box. No need for anyone to contact you, it can be done by out of towners without prior preparation.

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I like that you're trying to think of creative ways to make travelers more secure. I've come to the conclusion that any idea that makes people read the cache page is a good thing, since that blocks the intro app users from taking a geocoin without having any idea what it is. Years ago conventional wisdom called for leaving travelers near interstate rest areas or airports for easy transfer, but I don't think that's a good idea anymore. My latest experiment has been making very easy puzzle caches in spots unlikely to be found by muggles, but that's not been working out too well either. I have two new caches that have had bugs stranded for a few weeks now. I might have to pick them up and try something else.

 

I guess part of the problem is that if people are focussing on nothing more than their find count they won't do anything that slows down the "scoring". Taking time out for a multi or to solve a puzzle is time that they could be out finding traditionals - why spend an hour on a multi when in the same time you could grab a dozen caches on a power trail? So making a cache a multi that's more than a simple offset, or a puzzle, will probably take out an awful lot of cachers who would visit a traditional. The upside it it takes out a lot of cachers who might steal the TBs or mistake them for trade items.

 

Where TBs are getting stuck I wonder whether it's due to a lack of visitors or a perception that you have to leave something in "trade" for the TB, maybe even that you have to leave a TB if you're taking a TB.

 

Unfortunately it all comes back to the eternal issue that having lots of visitors makes it more likely that a TB will be stolen or mistaken for a trade item, and reducing the likelihood of TBs vanishing requires reducing the number of visitors to the cache.

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...

Not sure a Reviewer will okay a TB prison.

If someone has to request to access other's trackables (they're not yours...), doubt it'd pass.

Yep, this one seems like an even more literal representation of that term than what it's usually used for (one where cachers are required to trade 1-for-1). This one's basically, "all trackables are locked up unless authorized to be released by the warden".

 

Personally, I feel that calling a cache a "TB hotel" or similar term is just asking for trouble. You're basically advertising a one-stop-shop for trackable thiefs, and I can't say that I've ever seen a TB hotel that hasn't had problems. Instead, just make a cache that's large enough to hold trackables and hidden in an area and in such a way that it's unlikely to be muggled. If other cachers feel your cache is secure enough to house trackables, the trackables will come.

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Never really thought about how naming something a TB hotel does target it to be plundered. But then not naming it something like that doesn't do what the intent was, a trading spot for trackables. I can see quite a few twists that can be used, the offset is a good one. Also could hide three micros nearby that contain the numbers for the combination (and possibly the coords) and that way it would be locked secure, and without finding the three micros wouldn't even know where it was. Also if the container were secured, and locked, if a muggle stumbled across it would take quite a bit of effort to take the container or gain access inside.

 

My axe to grind with this came from a cache I had muggled a long, long time ago and one of the trackables was a military item that had seen many thousands of miles, it was from a family's son who was killed overseas. Was not a good feeling writing those folks to tell them it was gone. I know, I know, I know they know the risks, but regardless it's not something I enjoy doing.

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Never really thought about how naming something a TB hotel does target it to be plundered. But then not naming it something like that doesn't do what the intent was, a trading spot for trackables. I can see quite a few twists that can be used, the offset is a good one. Also could hide three micros nearby that contain the numbers for the combination (and possibly the coords) and that way it would be locked secure, and without finding the three micros wouldn't even know where it was. Also if the container were secured, and locked, if a muggle stumbled across it would take quite a bit of effort to take the container or gain access inside.

 

You could have your cache as a micro with a nearby larger container so people can just do a quick cache-n-dash (might be appreciated in a rest stop) or take longer to find the combination and open the larger container.

 

A muggle isn't going to care about taking the time to open a container properly if they want it, although from what you've described the problems you're trying to solve are people who open the container as it was intended to be opened, rehide the container, but just plunder the TBs from it.

 

Regarding the name, a cache big enough to take trackables in an area where lots of people will be passing through on their way to places both near and far doesn't really need to be named "TB Hotel". If a cache is in an interstate rest stop or near a major airport or sea port it doesn't take a genius to figure that people might go to find it while waiting for a connecting flight or on a cross-country drive or some such, so leaving a trackable there increases the chances of it being picked up by someone about to travel a long way. Sadly it also doesn't take a genius for TB thieves to figure out which caches are worth raiding and putting them on a watch list so they can pay a visit any time anybody drops something off.

 

Unless you're going to regularly change any combination lock, the TB thieves only need to find it once and can then pass by as often as they want to relieve your cache of its trackables.

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"Premium as always" doesn't seem to be working, huh?

There's many here who swear it helps...

 

It doesn't help at all if the cache is left out in the open where anyone can spot it, along with a well formed geopath leading directly to it. Add in geocachers who are in a hurry and don't rehide it, followed by others who "rehid as found" and who leave it there.

 

Some hiders are rather naive in their beliefs about traffic in an area. One cache I found was obvious to anyone and 2 feet from a path used by dozens of people on a regular basis, as well as 6 feet from a creek. After a flood it disappeared and the CO complained to me that a student they knew was taking their hides. Yeah, PMO is going to help. :rolleyes: A chain may keep someone from taking it, but if the container is locked they likely will be curious enough to return and break in.

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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"Premium as always" doesn't seem to be working, huh?

There's many here who swear it helps...

 

It doesn't help at all if the cache is left out in the open where anyone can spot it, along with a well formed geopath leading directly to it. Add in geocachers who are in a hurry and don't rehide it, followed by others who "rehid as found" and who leave it there.

 

Some hiders are rather naive in their beliefs about traffic in an area. One cache I found was obvious to anyone and 2 feet from a path used by dozens of people on a regular basis, as well as 6 feet from a creek. After a flood it disappeared and the CO complained to me that a student they knew was taking their hides. Yeah, PMO is going to help. :rolleyes: A chain may keep someone from taking it, but if the container is locked they likely will be curious enough to return and break in.

 

Certainly a potential problem. An ammo can left in the woods could easily trigger the "cool, an ammo can, I can use that" response as the finder takes it away. An ammo can securely padlocked and chained to a tree is more likely to trigger a "wonder why they locked it, there must be something worth having in it" response as the finder goes to get a bolt cutter to take it away.

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Well if the small container is actually the cache, then the large container which you would intend on people leaving their TBs in isn't technically the geocache at all itself, so you could grant access to it however you'd like, and it shouldn't be part of the approval process. But if you call something (meaning the smaller container) a TB hotel that isn't large enough to hold TBs, that could be a minor issue, although since "TB hotel" is really an unofficial designation, it shouldn't matter. But if people do go through the trouble to get access to the larger box to trade TBs, technically since the larger box isn't the cache, but just a "box attached to the cache" the TBs themselves wouldn't actually be stored in the cache.

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why not make the travel bug hotel a multi cache? I would leave a numer and direction of rotation in each stage. the fourth stage I would give the gps cords to reach the tb hotel. I would feel safer leaving tb's in one set up that way myself.

That would become aTb prison add it would rarely get visited. one cacher put one of mine in a puzzle that was only visited a couple of times a year not good.

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