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PISA-caching

Feeding animals

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When I was a kid, you could buy food at the biggest zoo in Vienna and feed some of the animals, but today they don't allow feeding animals anymore. And I assume that most zoos don't allow it anymore. However, from time to time I've seen places, where children are allowed to feed animals and where you can buy food either from a little slot machine or a counter. For example: There was a counter at a restaurant at the Woerthersee lake where they sold little paper bags filled with dried bread pieces that children could feed to the ducks or fishes in the lake. And somewhere in Styria we passed a little fish (trouts) farm where they put special food for trouts in regular chewing gum vending machines, so that people could buy the trouts favorite food and feed them.

 

Would that be an interesting topic for a new category?

 

PS: If someone likes the idea, feel free to pick it up and create that category.

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I think it's a wonderful idea!

 

I just browsed through ALL the Waymarking categories to make sure a category didn't already exist and the closest one I could find that might possibly include what you're proposing is the Petting Farms and Zoos category, managed by the Feed The Animals group. The category description mentions feeding the animals but the requirement is that the location be an Animal Farm or Petting Zoo. What if it's not? Before someone begins creating a new group and category, it might be wise to contact the officers of the PF&Z category and see if they might be willing to add this activity into their category (I can do this) knowing that some places that offer to feed the animals might not be an Animal Farm or a Petting Zoo. If they don't reply or have no interest, I'd be more than happy to create a group and potential category to fulfill this 'void' in the Waymarking community.

 

There is a fish hatchery not far from my hometown that allows visitors to buy small pellets to feed the trout. This category would fit that nicely. :P

 

I'll post back here if/when I get a response from the PF&Z category officers.

 

Stay tuned....

Edited by thebeav69
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I think the new category is fine!

Not all petting zoos have the feeding options.

It would be nice to have something separate just for those locations!

Thanks for asking us!

 

I think it's a wonderful idea!

 

I just browsed through ALL the Waymarking categories to make sure a category didn't already exist and the closest one I could find that might possibly include what you're proposing is the Petting Farms and Zoos category, managed by the Feed The Animals group. The category description mentions feeding the animals but the requirement is that the location be an Animal Farm or Petting Zoo. What if it's not? Before someone begins creating a new group and category, it might be wise to contact the officers of the PF&Z category and see if they might be willing to add this activity into their category (I can do this) knowing that some places that offer to feed the animals might not be an Animal Farm or a Petting Zoo. If they don't reply or have no interest, I'd be more than happy to create a group and potential category to fulfill this 'void' in the Waymarking community.

 

There is a fish hatchery not far from my hometown that allows visitors to buy small pellets to feed the trout. This category would fit that nicely. :P

 

I'll post back here if/when I get a response from the PF&Z category officers.

 

Stay tuned....

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OK, folks, you heard it straight from the leader of the Animal Farms and Petting Zoos category... They would prefer this 'Feed the Animals' category idea as a separate category all its own.

 

I'll create a group and invite a few people I have in mind...

 

More to come!

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Although I am not the leader of the Petting Farms category, I helped write it and am still an officer. Although we could add that as a variable, I am not sure that would satisfy the interest.

 

With that said, I think there is too much overlap with other categories to make this stand on its own. Most legitimate places to offer feeding of the animals seem to be included in other categories -- zoos, petting farms, aquariums and even the fish hatchery category. Where else would one find places that offer the option to feed the animals?

 

I'm not totally opposed to pulling out a niche category if there is a compelling reason for doing so, but I just don't see it here. I probably would not vote against it in peer review, because I also believe that even if I don't find a category appealing, there may be others who do and I won't rain on their parade as long as it is well-written and seems to have some support.

 

So -- one man's view. . . .

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Hi Doug,

thanks for your invitation. I see it like Larry. All "feeding animals allowed" places I saw during my travels have been located inside a zoo or a petting zoo (farm). Outside these locations it's forbidden. (Lakes, private horse farms, etc.).

99% of the German petting zoos allow feeding them. The "petting farm" category has only 68 Waymarks worldwide (since 2009), so if 90% of them allow feeding the animals, I think there isn't much potential for an own category.

All the best,

-lumbricus

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.... Where else would one find places that offer the option to feed the animals?

 

My example of the Woerthersee lake is such a place. It's a lake, where wild fish and wild ducks are fed by tourists and their kids.

 

.... All "feeding animals allowed" places I saw during my travels have been located inside a zoo or a petting zoo (farm). Outside these locations it's forbidden. (Lakes, private horse farms, etc.).

99% of the German petting zoos allow feeding them. The "petting farm" category has only 68 Waymarks worldwide (since 2009), so if 90% of them allow feeding the animals, I think there isn't much potential for an own category.

 

First of all: Both my initial examples were neither in a zoo nor in a petting zoo.

Second: When you say "Outside these locations it's forbidden", is that true just for Germany or the whole world? ;-)

Third: In my humble opinion, it would be quite complicated to find these places searching through all the probably involved categories (zoos, petting zoos, fish hatcheries, etc.). Plus, none of these categories would accept the restaurant that sells food for the wild fishes of lake Woerthersee.

 

Another thing I found recently that wouldn't fit in any of the mentioned categories:

 

http://www.kiss925.com/2014/07/25/there-are-vending-machines-in-turkey-that-feed-stray-animals-2/ and also:

http://kids-myshot.nationalgeographic.com/photos/view/31142/vending-machine-for-fish-food-shot-by-poseidon5ckw

 

Maybe there are not enough (how many would be "enough" anyway?) places like this around the world, but my opinion is: For me, a niche category with few waymarks, that are otherwise hard to find, is more helpful than a category with hundreds of waymarks that I could google within seconds.

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I wholeheartedly agree with you, PISA. In fact, I've come across quite a few 'feed the animals' locations in the USA within and just outside resorts, hotels, public parks, ponds, seas docks/wharfs, aquariums etc. that cater to the feeding of fish (pellets), birds (birdseed), and the occasional sea lion/seal (fish). In fact, when I was in Seattle a couple of years ago, the Seattle Aquarium lets visitors feed the sea otters.

 

I feel this could be a great 'niche' category, not very common but nonetheless serves a purpose as a 'highlight' location to many of the public places for families to enjoy interacting with various wildlife. Whether they are located in a zoo or not, they serve a purpose. And who knows, there may be locations around the world that cater to the feeding of 'whatever' to certain wildlife that we haven't even thought about... (feed the bees, perhaps?)

 

:grin:

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OK !

I'll take a stab at it (a bite)

Let the "Review Board" decide.

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Riverbanks Zoo in Columbia has two such spots: Giraffes and Loris

 

Waymarks all ready in the can, pending category approval.

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I am not experienced at this, but I would think that the stress in the category should be on the availability of food for free or purchase at the site that is specifically intended to feed the animals. I can feed the ducks in my local park all I like, and it is permitted so long as I do it from the shore, but to me it shouldn't qualify because I bring my own food. But you don't want any place where animals can be fed, because there are too many of those and they'd be very subjective in nature.

Edited by jennyanykind
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Thank you, thebeav69, for your support. A funny coincidence, but I was also wondering if there are places where one could feed bees (for example with sweetend water for the colder months of the year).

 

I also thank everybody else for the Feedback.

 

Jennyanykind, you're absolutely right. The waymarks should be limited to places where either food can be bought or acquired for free (like for example the vending machine that gives food for tin cans/plastic bottles in Turkey). There might also be places where you get some food with the entrance card for a zoo/animal farm/whatever.

 

Another thing that came to my mind: Here in Vienna there's an area called "Lainzer Tiergarten". It's a huge area where various local wild animals live free. Every autumn children are encouraged to collect chestnuts, which are fed to the wild animals during the winter. The children receive 10 Euro-Cents per kilogram. On the one hand, it wouldn't fit to the other waymarks, because the actual feeding is done by officials, but on the other hand, the children help to feed the animals. I would imagine that there are other places where people can bring food for animals, but maybe it would be tough to determine what is worth a waymark and what is simply bringing old bread for the horse next door.

 

Either way, this category needs a perfect description to give it a chance to survive the review, but I think we're on a good way.

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OK, folks, this is what I've come up with for a category description:

 

Feeding the Animals

 

Any and all comments, suggestions and other PRODUCTIVE input highly encouraged!

 

B)

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Wow, the description is describing exactly what I had in mind. There are only two little things that I would probably change:

 

1. The expanded description says "This category will require submitters to provide a picture of a sign, vending machine...", but in the PHOTOS section it says "A third, clear close-up photo of a sign or other identifying lettering, a vending machine or similar is HIGHLY encouraged". In my opinion a photo of the vending machine or whatever should be obligatory.

 

2. Maybe the description should more clearly explain that places where one can use "private" food are not what we are looking for. If for example there is a petting zoo, where I'm allowed to bring carots to feed them to rabbits, that wouldn't qualify in my opinion. Just a permission to feed animals wouldn't be enough or otherwise one might list every petting zoo, where kids are allowed to take some grass from the ground and feed it to some goats.

 

@Max and 99: I think cross-posting wouldn't be a problem as long as the photos and description (& variables) are clearly not a simple copy of the other categories waymark. (Again, just my humble opinion)

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Great suggestions, PISA! I'm working on them now.

 

Max and 99, cross-posting is not a factor in this category. Nuff said.

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"The default picture must be of the animal(s) being fed. The second photo should be a backdrop of the entrance to the feeding area (showing the animals if possible)."

I have in mind fish being fed adjacent to a maritime museum in Huskisson. A former ship building yard now well known for its semi-captive fish. They are able to enter via a creek, grow in size as people feed them & either can't or wont go back out.

I can see those swimming around close to the edge as I have polarised lenses but my camera doesn't.

Would their ripples on the surface as they feed be acceptable as the default photo?

They are fed from a small jetty - you can't feed them from the edge of the water. The water is quite deep & subject to the tide so is not overly clear. The Sun's reflection would be the greatest problem.

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The write up looks good to me.

 

Best of luck in Peer Review.

Edited by jhuoni
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Although I don't know of any such places around me, it seems like a good idea for a category.

 

<rant>But I will ask this: What is the problem that some folks have with a category being a subset of another category?

 

We have categories like Abandoned Cemeteries which, last time I checked, is completely within the realm of Worldwide Cemeteries. And the same with Churchyard Cemeteries.

 

I oppose this idea that a category should not be created just because it is a specialized subset within a larger set. There is other precedents, of which I have just named a couple.

 

What is this? "We got by with it, but we don't want anyone else getting by with it!" ???

 

It smacks too much of an attitude of "Well, I won't have anything to Waymark in that category, so I'm opposed to it on general principles." Doesn't have the community spirit, if you ask me. And even if you don't.</rant>

 

Like I said, I don't know that I'll ever be able to contribute Waymarks to this particular category. But I'm certainly not going to throw water on it.

 

Good luck. You know what my vote'll be.

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@ MountainWoods: You never know. You might go on vacation and stumble over one of these fish food vending machines. Otherwise, I totally agree with you. There will always be categories to which the individual waymarker either can't or doesn't want to contribute.

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Although I don't know of any such places around me, it seems like a good idea for a category.

 

<rant>But I will ask this: What is the problem that some folks have with a category being a subset of another category?

 

We have categories like Abandoned Cemeteries which, last time I checked, is completely within the realm of Worldwide Cemeteries. And the same with Churchyard Cemeteries.

 

I oppose this idea that a category should not be created just because it is a specialized subset within a larger set. There is other precedents, of which I have just named a couple.

 

What is this? "We got by with it, but we don't want anyone else getting by with it!" ???

 

It smacks too much of an attitude of "Well, I won't have anything to Waymark in that category, so I'm opposed to it on general principles." Doesn't have the community spirit, if you ask me. And even if you don't.</rant>

 

Like I said, I don't know that I'll ever be able to contribute Waymarks to this particular category. But I'm certainly not going to throw water on it.

 

Good luck. You know what my vote'll be.

 

Part of the criteria for judging categories includes categories not being a subset of another category, the example given is "lighthouses" and "blue lighthouses". In most instances where you see subset type categories, the smaller categories were created first, and then the larger, as was the case with the example given. (The creation of Worldwide Cemeteries was an odd case in itself, which many don't understand)

 

You will be able to add to the category within a few miles of your home. (Go to Roaring River fish hatchery, you will find what you are looking for)

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Thanks, BruceS. I didn't realize that they sold fish food there. Too bad I missed you when you were in the area. OK, so that is one that I may be able to contribute, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

 

But my rant still stands. There are other specialized subsets of Waymarkable things/places that were allowed to be their own categories.

 

Admittedly, if the search capability were anywhere really usable, the subcategories could just be identified by a variable within the larger category. For example, Worldwide Cemeteries could have two Boolean (yes or no to the layman) variables: one for Abandoned? and one for Churchyard? and we wouldn't need the subcategories.

 

But without the ability to search on variables (or even on categories at this time!!), there is a good use for subcategories. What if Waymarker A is not interested in visiting any old Cemetery, but would love to visit Abandoned Cemeteries?

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I really don't view this category proposal of as a subset of any one category. It does overlap several (zoos, petting zoos, bird aviaries, fish hatcheries and probably others) but that should not be viewed as an problem as overlap is now probably inevitable. Now if this category is approved and someone proposed deer feeding stations or something like that, then there would be subset category.

 

I see a couple issues with the category as now written. The location for the waymark is specified as the entrance to the facility, for many facilities, zoos especially this may be a great distance from any feeding stations. Many locations may have multiple feeding stations, for example one for sea lions and a different one for goats, which may be considerable distance apart, as written it sounds like there would be only one waymark for the zoo and not one for the sea lions another for the goats. However, having the coordinates as the entrance to the facility does resolve another potential issue, that being most of the these feed vending machines are quite portable and do get moved around some. (Note I am not recommending separate waymarks for each vending machine as I have seen places where several are located within a few feet of each other)

Edited by BruceS
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Good point BruceS. I'll try working on something to appease all those points.

 

PISA-caching has also proposed a different naming convention for a potential waymark title to require it to read:

 

Feed the ______ - Anonymous Zoo - Someplace, CA

 

Each waymark title mentions what type of animal is being fed. I like the idea and will change the description to convey that. By requiring this naming convention, one could submit multiple waymarks in the same location and each would be distinctive.

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Good point BruceS. I'll try working on something to appease all those points.

 

PISA-caching has also proposed a different naming convention for a potential waymark title to require it to read:

 

Feed the ______ - Anonymous Zoo - Someplace, CA

 

Each waymark title mentions what type of animal is being fed. I like the idea and will change the description to convey that. By requiring this naming convention, one could submit multiple waymarks in the same location and each would be distinctive.

 

So if there is a small pond at a nature center, and they have food available in vending machines, I could submit two waymarks for the exact same spot, one for feeding the turtles and one for feeding the catfish in the same pond?

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I see a couple issues with the category as now written. The location for the waymark is specified as the entrance to the facility, for many facilities, zoos especially this may be a great distance from any feeding stations. Many locations may have multiple feeding stations, for example one for sea lions and a different one for goats, which may be considerable distance apart, as written it sounds like there would be only one waymark for the zoo and not one for the sea lions another for the goats. However, having the coordinates as the entrance to the facility does resolve another potential issue, that being most of the these feed vending machines are quite portable and do get moved around some. (Note I am not recommending separate waymarks for each vending machine as I have seen places where several are located within a few feet of each other)

 

I was going to bring this up. The entrance and the actual spot where you get to feed the critters can be a great distance apart. The San Antonio Zoo, is only 35 acres, the Louisville Zoo is 135 acres. I don't even want to guess at the size of Busch Gardens or Sea World.

I think it should be the actual location - I have a waymark ready to go for this, (should it pass peer review) and I ran into the problem of determining the location of where the feeding spot was. I took lots of pictures with my camera, but didn't think to bring a gps. Luckily, I had taken some pictures with my cell phone which were geotagged.

A little food for thought for the people who want to waymark the place to feed the animals. tongue.gif

Edited by jhuoni
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Near my home is a "Wildpark". At the entrence you can buy foot in small bags (1 €). You can feed almost all animals with that food. (Deers, donkeys, boars, goats,....) Where should the coordinate be? If it's at the entrance pictures of all animals which can be fed would be required?

Here is a card of zoos in Germany. If you click on a pin you can see if feeding is allowed or not. I clicked about 10 and 8 have feeding possibilites.

 

Click on the left side "Zoo-Map of Germany"

 

I also remember that many zoos have times for a "public feeding" (wolfs or lions) where people can watch these animals, pictures would be awesome I think. Perhaps we can include also this thing.

 

Edit: Link fixed.

Edited by lumbricus
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I think this is a great idea and it's wonderful to see it being created before my eyes. I had no idea how difficult getting the details tweaked can be, the collaboration is outstanding. Great job!

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So if there is a small pond at a nature center, and they have food available in vending machines, I could submit two waymarks for the exact same spot, one for feeding the turtles and one for feeding the catfish in the same pond?

 

Do turtles and catfish get the same food (out of the same vending machine)? If yes, I would create one waymark and name it "Feed turtles & catfish ...". If there is a separate vending machine for turtle food here and a separate vending machine for catfish food there, I would create two separate waymarks.

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I've tweaked the verbiage some more to make what we're looking for more concise and clear. Please take a moment to look at the category description and I'll send this out for an officer vote:

 

Feeding the Animals

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Near my home is a "Wildpark". At the entrence you can buy foot in small bags (1 €). You can feed almost all animals with that food. (Deers, donkeys, boars, goats,....) Where should the coordinate be? If it's at the entrance pictures of all animals which can be fed would be required?

Here is a card of zoos in Germany. If you click on a pin you can see if feeding is allowed or not. I clicked about 10 and 8 have feeding possibilites.

 

Click on the left side "Zoo-Map of Germany"

 

I also remember that many zoos have times for a "public feeding" (wolfs or lions) where people can watch these animals, pictures would be awesome I think. Perhaps we can include also this thing.

 

Edit: Link fixed.

 

The coordinates should be at the entrance, as this is where the food is sold. One photo of an animal would be enough.

 

About the Zoos: I did the same with the Zoo map of Austria. Half of the 10 zoos allow feeding of some species (with food the visitors brought from home maybe?), but only 1 said "animal food sold". I also checked Switzerland and 6 of 10 don't allow feeding at all, 3 do allow it and again only 1 offers food for sale. So, my guess is that maybe we have some redundancy in Germany, but less redundancy in other countries.

 

"Public feeding" is great and yes, pictures would be awesome, but the goal of this category is to do the feeding yourself. I think it would be great to have a variable for feeding shows in the "Zoos" category.

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The category has gone to an officer vote (second time). When it gets approval, then it goes to Peer Review!

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I really like this category. Thanks for setting it up.

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Peer review is over, the suspense is killing me!

 

A carry over from my Geocaching days, I want to be the FTP (First To Post). rolleyes.gif

 

Waymark is ready to go, all I need is the category.

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Whoops, I completely missed this PR! PRs shouldn't be allowed to happen over weekends. :laughing:

For anyone who did review it, what were the comments and votes like? Were they generally in favour of it?

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Whoops, I completely missed this PR! PRs shouldn't be allowed to happen over weekends. :laughing:

For anyone who did review it, what were the comments and votes like? Were they generally in favour of it?

 

From what I saw, there was only two pages of comments. Most were either favorable or abstain. A few NAY-SAYERS.

 

I didn't think about it, but maybe since it was over a weekend the count was low.

 

EDITED because of a typo.

Edited by jhuoni
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