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Challenge Caches - pre-signing of logs

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Firstly let me say I don't have any angst or agenda about this question.. simply wondering what others think and do.

 

Locally I've had some owners of challenge caches encourage "pre-signing" - i.e. finding the cache and signing the log - for a challenge that the finder does not yet qualify for. Then when they do qualify, the can mark it as a find.

 

Recently I've come across some challenge caches where the cache owner specifically states "no pre-signing allowed". Obviously they can't stop people signing the physical log.. but their request is as I understand it that you must come back and sign it again once you qualify for the challenge if you want to log it as found.

 

My questions:

 

1. What do people think about "pre-signing"? And have you done it?

 

2. If doing it, how best to log it once you have qualified?

 

A. Log with the date you signed the physical log

B. Log with the date you completed the challenge

 

Both A and B have some side effects. With A, the logging history has you logging a find on a date before you qualified - so a find on that date isn't really valid. With B, you are logging a find on a date when you may be nowhere near the cache.

 

Option C of course would be to go back and sign it again once you qualify. But if the cache is far away that may not be possible. In which case another option is don't log it as a find.

 

Specific example for me: 10 days ago I was caching in Iowa - 4000 miles from home in England. There were some challenges which I nearly qualified for. I found them and signed the log. I now qualify. I may never be back in Iowa again.

 

I went with option B.

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Recently I've come across some challenge caches where the cache owner specifically states "no pre-signing allowed". Obviously they can't stop people signing the physical log.. but their request is as I understand it that you must come back and sign it again once you qualify for the challenge if you want to log it as found.

This restriction is no longer allowed under the Challenge Cache guidelines which Geocaching HQ asks the volunteer cache reviewers to follow. So, perhaps you were seeing that on older challenge caches.

 

There are two prerequisites to logging an online find on a challenge cache: (1) sign the logbook, and (2) complete the challenge requirements. The challenge cache owner cannot dictate the order in which these events must occur, but can only delete online logs if one of the prerequisites is not fulfilled.

 

(As a player, I log my online find on the date when I've completed the last prerequisite act, FWIW.)

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But the owners are also oblidged to check the logs, and pre-signing makes things very complicated.

 

If I sign now, and log the challenge after 5 years, it may be quite difficult for owner to connect that 2 facts together.

 

So that pre-signing is not very clear to me:

 

1) Should I pre-sign only when I hope to fulfill the challenge in the reasonable time (say, within 3 months or within 1 year)?

 

2) What date should I log online? The date of pre-signing, the date of fulfilling the requirements (which may be hard to find for me) or the date I make the online log?

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Thanks Keystone.

 

"last prerequisite act" makes sense to me... so in my case it is the date I qualified for the challenge.

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Last winter, I completed a challenge, and went to find the container to finish the deal. My son, who has his own account but had not completed the challenge, was with me. We both signed the log, then I logged a Fount It and he logged a Note with his intention to complete the challenge. When he completes it, he'll probably create a new Found It log based on the day of completion, and mention that the signature on the log sheet was on such-and-such day.

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There are a couple of Challenge caches for which I do not yet qualify, but have signed the log book. For two of these, it was accidental-on one I thought I qualified, but as I was finalizing my bookmark I realized the cache I had for a given date was not in the correct state, on the second, I had misread the cache page (and wondered why what I thought should be a 2 star difficulty was a 4.5 star difficulty-the answer is because I'm stupid).

 

For all of these caches, I log a write note on the date I sign the log book. That gives the CO a chance to verify that yes I did at this date physically sign the log. I usually state in this note how far along I am toward completely qualifying, and when I expect to get there. That also gives the CO a heads-up. When I finally qualify, I then add a Found It log for that date, referencing my earlier Note.

 

One thing I don't do with these Found It s that I do with all my others is to dip my personal geocoin. Because I may be physically quite a ways from the cache, I don't want my mileage messed up. Usually I had already dipped my coin into some nearby caches on the day I originally signed it, so my true mileage stays pretty close to that shown on the coin.

 

I mention that the CO can delete the FI if they don't like this approach, but I don't believe I've ever had that happen.

 

Publicly stating in the Note that I am working on a Challenge does give me a little more emphasis to keep searching for qualifying caches. Otherwise, I might just let the whole thing die off. Sometimes I need to give myself a push.

 

Usually though, I don't sign in advance at all.

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I think it's a little silly, but not something to fret over.

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My questions:

 

1. What do people think about "pre-signing"? And have you done it?

 

2. If doing it, how best to log it once you have qualified?

 

A. Log with the date you signed the physical log

B. Log with the date you completed the challenge

1. I often pre-sign challenge cache logbooks, for a couple reasons. First, I could be on vacation when I come across an interesting challenge that I'd like to complete. If I wait until I actually qualified for the challenge, then I might never be in a position where I can post-sign the logbook. Second, if it might take me a while to complete a challenge, then the challenge cache might be archived before I can post-sign the logbook.

 

2. I opt for B, since I haven't really met all the conditions for the "Found It" smiley until after I complete the challenge.

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But the owners are also oblidged to check the logs, and pre-signing makes things very complicated.

 

If I sign now, and log the challenge after 5 years, it may be quite difficult for owner to connect that 2 facts together.

 

Yes, it may be difficult. Challenge cache owners put themselves in the way of considerable extra effort.

If they realize that the ownership obligations are too difficult, they probably ought to offer future date of archive, so that those who've been working on the challenge have some opportunity to finish up, and then at that date, archive the listing.

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My questions:

 

1. What do people think about "pre-signing"? And have you done it?

 

2. If doing it, how best to log it once you have qualified?

 

A. Log with the date you signed the physical log

B. Log with the date you completed the challenge

 

I think it is silly to log a Find on a cache days/weeks/months after I found the physical container. I don't want my statistics messed up in that way. If I spend the day caching around home and suddenly qualify for a challenge I signed in Michigan, I don't want my cache-to-cache distance to suddenly show I traveled hundreds of kilometers that day.

 

By the same token, I don't want to date my Find log for the day I found the container if I hadn't qualified for the challenge yet on that date. If the Geocaching rules say you need to jump backwards through skinny little flaming hoops to claim your Find, I want to abide by them even if I think they are stupid.

 

I avoid the whole mess by not pre-signing any challenge caches. In fact, if I don't meet the ALR for a challenge cache, I won't even load it in my GPSr so I don't even have to know where it is.

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I think it is silly to log a Find on a cache days/weeks/months after I found the physical container. I don't want my statistics messed up in that way. If I spend the day caching around home and suddenly qualify for a challenge I signed in Michigan, I don't want my cache-to-cache distance to suddenly show I traveled hundreds of kilometers that day.

 

Generally I agree, but there are nice challenges in my vicinity, and I don't know if I can manage to fulfill them before I leave. Once I leave, maybe I won't return there anymore... However, I can physically log such caches now.

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Personally, like DanOCan, I avoid the situation by not pre-signing challenge caches. I've found upwards of 150 challenge caches and this hasn't hampered me a bit. That being said, I have pre-signed one because I was with a couple of friends and we went to it, but once I do qualify for it I probably will go and sign it again before I log a find. That won't be easy either as it's on top of Picket Post Mountain Arizona Benchmark Challenge-Dedicated

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If caching is about finding caches, then why if in the vicinity of a (challenge) cache would you avoid signing the physical log? Any prerequisites/ALRs are for logging a cache found online. So, I would sign the log whether I qualify yet or not, then my current habit is like others above - post a note on the date I physically found the cache (can't log it found it online). Even challenges for which I may never qualify; I won't stop myself from finding that cache; there's no fun in that :P. Either way, I drop that cache into a found-but-not-qualified bookmark list so that I know I've found it. I may then make an effort to qualify (if not already trying), or I may qualify at some point in the future. When I do, I'll know I've already found it, so only the technicality remains - log it found online.

 

I wouldn't let the online Found It log come between me and physically finding a cache, if I know where it is.

 

The date of the find log though? Well I can understand why people may have various positions on what date is best.

Personally, like Keystone, I log it found on the date that all prerequisites are completed. If signed before qualifying, I'd likely post a note that I signed the log, then wait to log it found the date I qualified. If qualified before finding, I might post a note with the qualification info and then log it found on the date physically signed.

 

I've got two bookmark lists: Found but not qualified, and Qualified but not found. Specifically for such situations. :) (I've also got a 'nearly qualified' list so I know what challenges I'm really close to finishing, heh)

Edited by thebruce0

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I would never pre-sign a log on a challenge cache that I was going to attempt.

 

For me, part of the gratification of completing the challenge is making that last find, knowing what went beforehand to get there.

 

For example, check out this log. I don't think her near-death doughnut would have tasted nearly as sweet had she not completed the Ironman to earn it:

 

 

c2a11203-5d8e-46c1-b05f-c0d63398c3ee.jpg

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Oh sure, it's definitely a personal choice whether to sign first or qualify first :)

 

I'm on the side that allows me to find and sign the logbook of a challenge cache while on vacation somewhere I may never return, then qualify for it later to post the Find online :). The guidelines allow for it, so I wouldn't limit myself to an arbitrary personal limitation. But that's just me. (srsly, it's all ok :cool:, everyone plays differently)

Edited by thebruce0

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If caching is about finding caches, then why if in the vicinity of a (challenge) cache would you avoid signing the physical log? Any prerequisites/ALRs are for logging a cache found online. So, I would sign the log whether I qualify yet or not, then my current habit is like others above - post a note on the date I physically found the cache (can't log it found it online).

 

That is what I did... and having thought about it and reading various responses that is what I will continue to do.

 

I like the way Keystone described it. A challenge cache has 2 parts, they can be done in either order.

 

I understand if you sign before qualifying it does create some anomalies (e.g. I have a found it log in Iowa on a date I was in England), and some think that is silly. Challenge caches themselves are a bit of an anomaly. But I now see this as a personal choice, and I'm on the "pre-logging is OK" side.

 

In my case, I found a bunch of challenge caches in Iowa, most of which I qualified for. There were a handful where I was close and I signed the logs; 2 of these I qualified for within a week (but I had already left Iowa). I don't HAVE to log them as finds, but I WANT to as 1) I found the cache and 2) I qualify and 3) I thought it was a fun challenge.

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For example, check out this log. I don't think her near-death doughnut would have tasted nearly as sweet had she not completed the Ironman to earn it

That type of experience could just as easily have happened if she had pre-signed the challenge cache and this was on the last cache she needed to complete the requirements. All of the same experiences would have occurred, just in a different order.

 

Personally, I'm in the camp of pre-signing, posting a note that I've done so, then later submitting a Found it dated with the date that I fulfilled the requirements. I think this method is the consensus, but it certainly isn't the "correct" way of doing it. Everyone can do it the way they want (as long as the CO is fine with it, of course :laughing: ).

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Everyone can do it the way they want (as long as the CO is fine with it, of course :laughing: ).

Actually no - as long as Groundspeak's rules for the log are follow, that the name is in the log book and the challenge is qualified - doesn't matter if the CO doesn't like the order, it's still a valid find. :P

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It's a though question I've also asked myself. As for now, when I have completed a challenge that I had signed months ago, I logged it on the date of the completion (not the date of the day I found the physical container). Fortunately it didn't mess much with my stats because that day I found other caches and the challenge cache was near them, but things like these may happen...: The challenge cache that you found months ago and you are now logging is really far away, and maybe in another country, so it might mess with your "most distance in one day" and "more countries/states in a day" stats.

 

That worries me (I really like my stats to reflect my geocaching life!), but I haven't found a better solution. I cannot log it on the date I found the container because it would even be worse (change of milestones, etc.).

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Everyone can do it the way they want (as long as the CO is fine with it, of course :laughing: ).

Actually no - as long as Groundspeak's rules for the log are follow, that the name is in the log book and the challenge is qualified - doesn't matter if the CO doesn't like the order, it's still a valid find. :P

Good point. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that.

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Everyone can do it the way they want (as long as the CO is fine with it, of course :laughing: ).

Actually no - as long as Groundspeak's rules for the log are follow, that the name is in the log book and the challenge is qualified - doesn't matter if the CO doesn't like the order, it's still a valid find. :P

Well perhaps for newer challenge caches, but this isn't necessarily the case for older challenge caches.

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I think it makes sense if you're in the area, to find the cache, sign the physical log and then go online and post a note. I think when you do meet the qualifications, it would make sense to post a new 'Found it' log with the date you completed the requirements, while leaving your note as is. I can't understand why a cache owner would have a problem with that. We've got some challenges here which require a bit of a hike to get to and there are a bunch of challenges in a row. It would seem kind of lame to have to re-hike the trail everytime one completed a challenge. :rolleyes:

 

I've found a challenge recently where I had no intention of completing the challenge, but my son wanted to find it as it was right next to a playground. We went ahead and signed the physical log as normal and later posted a nice log on the cache page (as a note). Should the cache owner pass on before I do, I can always turn it into a Found it log. :ph34r::lol:

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Challenges are more incentive for me to get out there and do more caching, even though I've only completed/signed logs on two of them. If I'm a far way from home and there's a challenge I know I can complete, I'll sign the log ahead of time. To me though the final is usually a reward for the achievement.

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Most challenges are too silly for me: 8 States in One Day, 1 Cache a Day for 31 Days. Thanks, I don't do those.

But I will do challenges that I already qualify for.

For my 5000th cache find, we went for an Alphanumeric Challenge. Qualified easily for that one.

The one nearby, I did not think my caching partner qualified, so I asked the CO if he could sign, and qualify later. She said No Problem. As it turns out, earlier in the week, we found the cache he needed: Hidden on 12/15. So he qualified and signed.

Unfortunately, this is probably where I was bitten by the tick, and came down with Babesia. Oh, well.

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If I am already in the area and I am working on the challenge anyway, or its a string of challenge caches, I see no reason to not sign the challenge. As long as I do not log the cache as a find without qualifying would it be wrong. Have done many a challenge cache trail where I qualify for like 90% of the challenges and it would seem silly to not sign the rest while already there. Some of them I may qualify for some day. The few challenges that I will never qualify for, like say finding 500 in a day, I won't bother.

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I don't pre sign challenge cache logs but if I did, I would post picture of log signed to aid the CO in verifying my signature.

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Oh sure, it's definitely a personal choice whether to sign first or qualify first :)

 

I'm on the side that allows me to find and sign the logbook of a challenge cache while on vacation somewhere I may never return, then qualify for it later to post the Find online :). The guidelines allow for it, so I wouldn't limit myself to an arbitrary personal limitation. But that's just me. (srsly, it's all ok :cool:, everyone plays differently)

 

It's not just you. My personal choice is compounded by the fact that there are very few challenge caches close to where I live. I think there are three with "challenge" in the title within 50 miles and two of them are very localized. One requires finding a small number of caches in each of 5 gorges in the area and the other was finding a subset of some the oldest caches in the area. I qualified for both of them on the day they were published.

 

Pretty much the the only opportunity to find a challenge cache for me would be when I was traveling. If I was in an area which had a challenge cache which had criteria I was close to completing i would absolutely find and sign the log because I might not get the opportunity to go back.

 

The cache-to-cache stat is actually something that I've followed as I think it's pretty high for the number of caches I've found. With just over 1200 finds my cache-to-cache distance is 215701 Miles.

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I own one challenge cache - soon, hopefully, to become 3. My challenge does not require the finder to be anywhere near the cache in order to complete the challenge (2 consecutive found logs, marked as found on the same calendar day local time, and more than 2000Km apart). The new ones will be 5000 and 10000 Km.

 

I have had local people depart for a 5 year trip to the USA who will qualify by finding one cache before they leave Sydney and one on arrival in LA. They wanted to pre-sign the log. I had no problem. They did a write note on the day they found the cache and a find when the had qualified. Of course, their Total cache-to-cache distance is around 20,000Km out.

 

My solution would be to have a "Discovered" log which is like a found log in everything except that it doesn't increment your find count and a "completed" log which is locationless. Then, you need both logs on a cache before the find is incremented. The find is dated when the second log of the pair is logged. Distances are based on the discovered log.

 

I'm not holding my breath.

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Peraonally, I think it's silly to hunt caches I don't qualify for. It doesn't bother me that there might be a cache "close by" that I'm not going to get - I've done many a trip where I got one cache in an area where there were other caches 'right next door' that I didn't look for. Like with puzzles that I don't have the final for, I don't load challenge caches that I don't qualify for onto the GPSr. There's a 'power trail' of challenges outside of Redmond, OR that I did last year. Most I qualified for, but the others never made it to the unit. When I hit a longer gap, I'd think "there's one I didn't qualify for" and go to the next one on the 'list'. Another such trail in Idaho, I stopped for one cache along it, the other 40-50 that I could of hunted (those I did qualify for) weren't on the unit so we just drove on by to the next stop on our vacation - I'd rather see more sights then spend the time stopping for all those challenge caches (if we'd had more time, which we will soon as my wife will retire in few months, I wouldn't object to finding them).

Edited by The Jester

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Option C of course would be to go back and sign it again once you qualify. But if the cache is far away that may not be possible. In which case another option is don't log it as a find.
Option C is the one I'd go with. Even when I found a challenge cache accidentally, I didn't sign the log because I knew I didn't qualify. I just put the cache back where it belonged (based on the hints, because it was exposed and visible from the trail when I found it) and came back after I had completed the challenge.

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My solution would be to have a "Discovered" log which is like a found log in everything except that it doesn't increment your find count and a "completed" log which is locationless. Then, you need both logs on a cache before the find is incremented. The find is dated when the second log of the pair is logged. Distances are based on the discovered log.

 

I'm not holding my breath.

 

That's the best idea IMO. I really hope GS considers this. :rolleyes:

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But the owners are also oblidged to check the logs, and pre-signing makes things very complicated.

 

If I sign now, and log the challenge after 5 years, it may be quite difficult for owner to connect that 2 facts together.

 

So that pre-signing is not very clear to me:

 

1) Should I pre-sign only when I hope to fulfill the challenge in the reasonable time (say, within 3 months or within 1 year)?

 

2) What date should I log online? The date of pre-signing, the date of fulfilling the requirements (which may be hard to find for me) or the date I make the online log?

 

I've signed the physical logs on a few challenges that I didn't qualify for when I was in the area, or caching with friends who already qualified. In every case I posted a note stating the facts of the find and that I would log a find when I did actually qualify. In a few cases some time had passed between the two actions, so my find log merely mentioned the date of my posted note/physical find. Most recently I signed the log for the NC Delorme Challenge with one page remaining as I was in the western part of our state where the physical cache is located only a few days before heading all the way to the coast for my final page find. I didn't even bother with the note as I was hardly online between the two date.

 

Short answer to these questions since Keystone has already taken care of the OP.

If you think the CO of the challenge will have difficulty linking your two actions, do it for them in your log. The date you find the container should be the one used for your note, the date you post the find log should be the date you finally qualified.

Edited by wimseyguy

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(As a player, I log my online find on the date when I've completed the last prerequisite act, FWIW.)

Therein lies another minor issue.

 

I was traveling recently when I completed the requirements for a challenge. I had pre-signed the log at an earlier date and the cache is in my home area. If I log a find on the challenge on that date, I would automatically add about 16,000 miles to my cache to cache distance in my stats. So I'm a bit conflicted about what I should do, and as a result, have not logged that cache as found yet.

 

I'm leaning towards logging a note dated when I completed the challenge, and changing my original note to a "Found It". That would give the most accurate cache to cache distance.

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Yep, it's been raised earlier.

Challenge Caches pose a trade-off, unless you don't do anything until you log it both found and qualified, together.

 

Find first, then qualify later (w/log)? Throw off your cache to cache distance.

Qualify or find first, then do the other step later and edit your previous note to a Find? Throw off your milestones.

 

Cache-to-cache distance is viewing Finds as physical travel.

Milestones is viewing Finds as WIGAS qualifications.

 

The only process that satisfies both (no distance or milestone mess-ups) is qualifying then finding and logging online.

 

So, how do you view your Find history? Physical travel, or qualifications? If you do challenge caches in any other manner than qualifying before finding, then you fundamentally can't have it both ways. It's a trade-off :)

 

Personally, I don't care so much about my cache-travel-distance. It's completely inaccurate anyway (I don't travel beeline between caches across the city even days apart, for instance). I side on the Milestone preference - it means my cache-to-cache route might have weird spikes where I logged a challenge cache long after finding it, but that's fine by me. I don't expect a viable challenge to pop up testing career travel distance :P

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Everyone can do it the way they want (as long as the CO is fine with it, of course :laughing: ).

Actually no - as long as Groundspeak's rules for the log are follow, that the name is in the log book and the challenge is qualified - doesn't matter if the CO doesn't like the order, it's still a valid find. :P

Good point. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that.

I think that the only complicator is that the cache owner might not want the 'note' logs junking up his page. He might then delete them.

Edited by sbell111

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This issue also arises with EarthCaches, virtuals, and webcam caches. You haven't really "found" these caches until you complete their requirements, and it might take you several days before you send your answers and/or upload the photos. Should you log your "Found It" on the day you were at the posted coordinates or on the day you sent the necessary information?

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I think generally there exists an arbitrary grace period for EC/Virt/Webcams which most COs will allow... I don't think I've ever heard of a CO allowing a grace period between logging a Challenge Cache found and actually qualifying for the challenge (or logging it found). I dunno, I suppose that would be up to the CO as well.

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I think generally there exists an arbitrary grace period for EC/Virt/Webcams which most COs will allow... I don't think I've ever heard of a CO allowing a grace period between logging a Challenge Cache found and actually qualifying for the challenge (or logging it found). I dunno, I suppose that would be up to the CO as well.

I brought this up not with respect to CO's deleting logs but rather regarding the tradeoffs the finders make when they log their finds: accurate find dates versus accurate cache-to-cache mileage.

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I think generally there exists an arbitrary grace period for EC/Virt/Webcams which most COs will allow... I don't think I've ever heard of a CO allowing a grace period between logging a Challenge Cache found and actually qualifying for the challenge (or logging it found). I dunno, I suppose that would be up to the CO as well.

I brought this up not with respect to CO's deleting logs but rather regarding the tradeoffs the finders make when they log their finds: accurate find dates versus accurate cache-to-cache mileage.

EC and virtuals are less of an issue in my case - I would log them in the correct order, and I usually send in the answers at the same time - or at most a couple of hours later. For EC and virtuals, it is even more important to me to log them in the correct order, as they're usually found when I'm traveling, and I often use my GC logs to figure out when I was visiting a particular place.

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I think generally there exists an arbitrary grace period for EC/Virt/Webcams which most COs will allow... I don't think I've ever heard of a CO allowing a grace period between logging a Challenge Cache found and actually qualifying for the challenge (or logging it found). I dunno, I suppose that would be up to the CO as well.

I brought this up not with respect to CO's deleting logs but rather regarding the tradeoffs the finders make when they log their finds: accurate find dates versus accurate cache-to-cache mileage.

EC and virtuals are less of an issue in my case - I would log them in the correct order, and I usually send in the answers at the same time - or at most a couple of hours later. For EC and virtuals, it is even more important to me to log them in the correct order, as they're usually found when I'm traveling, and I often use my GC logs to figure out when I was visiting a particular place.

But the "correct" order depends on whether you're adhering to the visited location order or the completed find order...at least in those situations where they differ. When I'm on vacation, those dates can differ by several days.

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EC and virtuals are less of an issue in my case - I would log them in the correct order, and I usually send in the answers at the same time - or at most a couple of hours later. For EC and virtuals, it is even more important to me to log them in the correct order, as they're usually found when I'm traveling, and I often use my GC logs to figure out when I was visiting a particular place.

But the "correct" order depends on whether you're adhering to the visited location order or the completed find order...at least in those situations where they differ. When I'm on vacation, those dates can differ by several days.

I see your point. I view sending the email to only be incidental to what an Earthcache is about - to teach us something about geology, but we should log in whatever way that makes sense to us.

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If there was a mechanism for temporally separating the signing of the log with the completion of the requirements, I would absolutely pre-sign a challenge cache log.

 

Something like Challenge Points

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I don't generally pre-sign. When I travel, I only bookmark and load those challenge caches that I qualify for already.

 

If it were a challenge cache that, to me and the way I cache, seems like it's going to take quite a while to complete, I'll pre-sign the log so that if the cache goes missing/gets archived before I finish qualifying for it, I still found the cache. Most challenge caches don't really interest me because so many are silly and completely arbitrary, but there are a few here locally that I want to finish and it may take years before I do. Who knows what might happen to the actual cache between then and now.

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Most challenge caches don't really interest me because so many are silly and completely arbitrary, but there are a few here locally that I want to finish and it may take years before I do. Who knows what might happen to the actual cache between then and now.

In our area we have many 'silly' challenge caches that are really, really fun to physically find and sign. Why not go and find and sign them anyway? I bookmark them, and if/when I ever get around to qualifying, I can just log it found (but I don't care about my cache-to-cache travel distance :P)

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1. I often pre-sign challenge cache logbooks, for a couple reasons. First, I could be on vacation when I come across an interesting challenge that I'd like to complete. If I wait until I actually qualified for the challenge, then I might never be in a position where I can post-sign the logbook. Second, if it might take me a while to complete a challenge, then the challenge cache might be archived before I can post-sign the logbook.

Third, I don't want to spend too much time/effort to demonstrate my qualification, just to possibly end up with a DNF. Signing the log is a good motivation for me to start working on the necessary paperwork which I don't particularly enjoy.

 

2. I opt for B, since I haven't really met all the conditions for the "Found It" smiley until after I complete the challenge.

Me too. More precisely, I log with the date I complete/post the paperwork, which could sometimes be a later date than when I complete the challenge.

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OK, the milestone argument convinced me. I chose to log the challenge on a day where I found another cache nearby so it minimized messing up my stats, which is also the same day I completed compiling the list.

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Most challenge caches don't really interest me because so many are silly and completely arbitrary, but there are a few here locally that I want to finish and it may take years before I do. Who knows what might happen to the actual cache between then and now.

In our area we have many 'silly' challenge caches that are really, really fun to physically find and sign. Why not go and find and sign them anyway? I bookmark them, and if/when I ever get around to qualifying, I can just log it found (but I don't care about my cache-to-cache travel distance :P)

 

That's not a bad idea but the majority that I've looked at don't even seem to have the fun factor for the actual cache. They are usually micros along a guardrail or a nano on a sign. Nothing worth going out of my way for. If it looks fun or creative, I'd be willing to go find it whether I ever get to claim a find or not but since most are pretty ordinary looking, the challenge aspect is what would motivate me to find it.

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That's not a bad idea but the majority that I've looked at don't even seem to have the fun factor for the actual cache. They are usually micros along a guardrail or a nano on a sign. Nothing worth going out of my way for. If it looks fun or creative, I'd be willing to go find it whether I ever get to claim a find or not but since most are pretty ordinary looking, the challenge aspect is what would motivate me to find it.

 

In the cases of uninteresting challenges with uninteresting physical caches, I usually still do them just to get off the map. :P

If they're easy, likely I've already qualified. So they become another set of roadside/easy caches. By now (for me at least) if they're easy and I haven't yet qualified, chances are there's an interesting twist that - for me - prompts me to do the work to qualify. So really, there's no instance of a challenge cache at this point in my caching career that I would not, in some way, want to complete & log.

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The one and only challenge I created was put in as part of an overall movie theme of the cache. The challenge, the puzzle and the cache location all follow the theme...yet folks still insist on making their little editorial comments about how the challenge is easy...blah blah blah. Yeah...I get it. I made it that way on purpose (even though I actually got some push-back on the challenge before publication about not enough people qualifying, amazingly enough).

 

So "silly" is fun...but also too easy and therefore bad? I guess I could've just made a statistics challenge like everyone else seems to want around Atlanta and saved myself from feeling like I broke some unwritten rule by publishing an easy challenge.

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If pre signing a challenge cache logbook before completing the challenge is acceptable, does that mean we can log a found it on the cache on the international space station as we want to visit it one day?

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