paying membership elitist?

[+wmpastor]

PMO can be elitist, but so can regular caches. It depends on why you created the cache, not how.

How can a reason to hide a cache be elitist?

 

You could create a challenge cache (non PMO) with the sole purpose of excluding certain cachers. That would be elitist.

 

Now who would have come up with something so sneaky - other than you?!

 

Is every exclusion "elitist"? Caching can't be done without some basic equipment. What about those that can't afford the equipment?? Maybe caching itself is elitist!

 

Is this subject still being flogged like a dead horse?!

[+GeoBain]

PMO can be elitist, but so can regular caches. It depends on why you created the cache, not how.

How can a reason to hide a cache be elitist?

 

You could create a challenge cache (non PMO) with the sole purpose of excluding certain cachers. That would be elitist.

 

Now who would have come up with something so sneaky - other than you?!

 

Is every exclusion "elitist"? Caching can't be done without some basic equipment. What about those that can't afford the equipment?? Maybe caching itself is elitist!

 

Is this subject still being flogged like a dead horse?!

 

I didn't say creating a challenge cache that excludes certain cachers was elitist, but rather "with the sole purpose" of excluding certain caches. Intent is what makes it elitist.

 

You could create PMO caches because you like them, for security, for a multiple of reasons and it would not be elitist. But if you created it just because you think non premium members have no business playing the game, that would be elitist. Again, intent is what makes something elitist or not.

 

Personally, I have no problem with PMO caches or challenge caches. I can search for any of them if I like or I can not search for them. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.

 

It still stands to reason that PMO "can" be elitist.

[4wheelin_fool]

Are there gibberish generators that you can input seed words?

 

Yes, there is one that changes the words very slightly so that it still is readable, but yet it's borderline nonsense. You can also pick the degree of gibberish, but too much ruins it. Of course, you can do the same thing using Google translate and putting it through a few different languages before converting it back to English. There is one that does that also.

[+cerberus1]

PMO can be elitist, but so can regular caches. It depends on why you created the cache, not how.

How can a reason to hide a cache be elitist?

 

You could create a challenge cache (non PMO) with the sole purpose of excluding certain cachers. That would be elitist.

 

Now who would have come up with something so sneaky - other than you?!

 

Is every exclusion "elitist"? Caching can't be done without some basic equipment. What about those that can't afford the equipment?? Maybe caching itself is elitist!

Is this subject still being flogged like a dead horse?!

If people are being excluded, yeah. We've seen many exclusionary. What would you call 'em?

There's a crew near you that have references on cache pages and hints that only people in that group would know what they're referring to.

Steering people away because they aren't parta the clique and turning away because you're not schooled, or lacking equipment aren't the same.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Hey, 30 find all Tftc logger just dropped two caches 3 miles from my house. Should I return the favor with a Tftc (or less) log? I actually did do that once. As rare as it is seeing a Tftc logger ever hide a cache.

 

No, show him how to write a real log. Use a gibberish generator to fill out the maximum amount of characters, and then Bing translate it into Hungarian, Latvian, or even Klingon.

 

http://www.webdesign...ou-should-know/

 

http://www.fillerati.com/

 

I'm gonna roll with a passage from Moby Dick, translated to Klingon. And yes, I'm really going to do this. Over the weekend, perhaps.

I suspect that Groundspeak will be in touch with you if you do.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

I have a house. Most people on this planet do not. I have central air conditioning that keeps my house 62 degrees year round. Most of this country, much less the world, do not. I have a five PC network with high speed access that is dedicated to nothing but play. I pay for premium membership to a number of sites and services, just because I want to. Does that make me elitist? If so I suppose I am. But I think that just makes me a capitalist. I worked hard to earn the money to pay for the things I want. You get what you pay for. I pay for Premium Membership because I appreciate this website, though I have never hidden a PM cache (actually I did hide one PM cache, a geocoin trade cache, stocked it with 30 geocoins and it was stolen the next day). This elitist question has come up fairly regularly over the years, mostly by people not willing to pay for the game they want to play. It's not elitist for those of us willing to pay to have access to benefits those not willing to pay do not get.

 

Well said rambler.

 

It's hot down here Ed....if your house is 62 deg I'm coming up for a visit.

[+captnemo]

I have always found it interesting that any site would offer free play forever I can understand a 3 months free introduction membership but after that you should have to pay.

 

No, I do not work for GS , have family that do, or have any friends who do. I have been a premimun member since 2002 not long after I started.

[+narcissa]

I have always found it interesting that any site would offer free play forever I can understand a 3 months free introduction membership but after that you should have to pay.

 

Why? It isn't the site that hides the caches.

[+Viajero Perdido]

I have always found it interesting that any site would offer free play forever

It's the Freemium model. Quite common actually.

 

And yes, the basic game including access to (easily) over a million caches is free, and I believe Jeremy said long ago that it would always stay that way.

 

Some people get uptight because over a million isn't enough.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Viajero Perdido

[4wheelin_fool]

Hey, 30 find all Tftc logger just dropped two caches 3 miles from my house. Should I return the favor with a Tftc (or less) log? I actually did do that once. As rare as it is seeing a Tftc logger ever hide a cache.

 

No, show him how to write a real log. Use a gibberish generator to fill out the maximum amount of characters, and then Bing translate it into Hungarian, Latvian, or even Klingon.

 

http://www.webdesign...ou-should-know/

 

http://www.fillerati.com/

 

I'm gonna roll with a passage from Moby Dick, translated to Klingon. And yes, I'm really going to do this. Over the weekend, perhaps.

I suspect that Groundspeak will be in touch with you if you do.

 

I doubt it. At the most it's an off topic log. Someone who has consistently logged TFTC likely isn't going to write to anyone about a long nonsensical log which isn't much different than what the cacher Oregone has logged.

[+hzoi]

I have central air conditioning that keeps my house 62 degrees year round.

 

62 degrees?!

 

 

Did you become Mr. Freeze since my visit last year?

[+wmpastor]

PMO can be elitist, but so can regular caches. It depends on why you created the cache, not how.

How can a reason to hide a cache be elitist?

 

You could create a challenge cache (non PMO) with the sole purpose of excluding certain cachers. That would be elitist.

 

Now who would have come up with something so sneaky - other than you?!

 

Is every exclusion "elitist"? Caching can't be done without some basic equipment. What about those that can't afford the equipment?? Maybe caching itself is elitist!

Is this subject still being flogged like a dead horse?!

If people are being excluded, yeah. We've seen many exclusionary. What would you call 'em?

There's a crew near you that have references on cache pages and hints that only people in that group would know what they're referring to.

Steering people away because they aren't parta the clique and turning away because you're not schooled, or lacking equipment aren't the same.

Okay, thanks for the tip, Bub. I'll look out for chicanery, but I won't stew over it.

[+Roman!]

I think puzzle caches are elitist so we need to do away with them or create a way for me to pay for the solution.

[+WarNinjas]

I understand the newbie thing not understanding what the rules are. I was recently dating a girl and telling her about my hobbie. I explained it to her and she thought you got to keep the cache after finding it. I told her NO you don't keep it you have to replace it for the next to find. She said she would keep it anyways after going threw all the work to find it.

I broke it off with her at that min!

And yes I am serious.

[+niraD]

I think puzzle caches are elitist so we need to do away with them or create a way for me to pay for the solution.

Have you tried attending a local event and asking some of the puzzle cache owners?

 

Personally, I wouldn't sell you the solution to my puzzle cache, but I'd be more than happy to spend some time guiding you to the solution with hints and questions.

[+niraD]

I explained it to her and she thought you got to keep the cache after finding it. I told her NO you don't keep it you have to replace it for the next to find.

I've taught a lot of people about geocaching, and that is a very common misconception. The other common misconception I've seen is that you're supposed to find a new hiding spot for the cache after you find it. I make sure to explain that you're supposed to replace the cache where you found it, as you found it.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I have central air conditioning that keeps my house 62 degrees year round.

 

62 degrees?!

 

Did you become Mr. Freeze since my visit last year?

Well, that's my goal anyway. It's 63 right now with the fan on, the compressor cycling on and off to hold it there, but it's 3 a.m. This little house is pretty well insulated and when I bought this air system I had the engineer calculate what it would take to cool it and bought 1.5 times that. It keeps the house at around 72 on the 100-degree days if we don't have the doors open a lot. I grilled ribs yesterday so I was in and out every half-hour or so for five hours and it never got all that hot in here... and once it does get hot it cools down pretty quickly. We had a nice rain roll in and cool things down just before dark, however. On the days when it's still in the 90s on late windless evenings the a/c has its work cut out for it.

 

They say blubber is great insulation and I believe it - I am like a crock-pot, I simmer all summer.

 

I don't remember if Bamboozle came in when they were here, I think we talked out on the porch (gotta watch out for those Cajuns) but I don't recall it being all that hot when you were. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

Regardless of whether I achieve 62 my point was that I am willing to pay high electricity bills trying to do so. That comment made sense at the time in the context of it not being elitist to buy the products and services we want, regardless of whether other people can or will.

 

Accusations of elitism are much in the news lately in both the US and UK where developers are getting tax breaks from cities in exchange for letting people who cannot afford to live in up-scale buildings do so at heavily discounted rates. The media controversy has centered around these people having a separate building entrance which the media are calling "poor doors". The real issue is that these folks who get deep discounts in order to live there want equal access to swimming pools, spas and club rooms that are part of the attraction which lead the affluent to want to live there. The corollary here is pretty close. Just because some are given a discounted home in a building in which they could not otherwise live doesn't entitle them to free access to any of the for-fee amenities. Having a free account here does not entitle folks to PM listings. Hiding a cache which listing is only available to those willing to pay for that access is not elitist. Same logic.

Edited August 13, 2014 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+The_Incredibles_]

I think puzzle caches are elitist so we need to do away with them or create a way for me to pay for the solution.

 

There's a guy here who gets puzzle solutions in exchange for beer. That would work well for you.

[+Roman!]

I think puzzle caches are elitist so we need to do away with them or create a way for me to pay for the solution.

 

There's a guy here who gets puzzle solutions in exchange for beer. That would work well for you.

 

I'd like to meet him.

[+The_Incredibles_]

$30 per year is such a staggering amount. Completely impossible for most people to afford. I think it should be decreased to $300 per year so that everyone can play.

[+Roman!]

$30 per year is such a staggering amount. Completely impossible for most people to afford. I think it should be decreased to $300 per year so that everyone can play.

 

I found some 3000 caches last year, I think on average it cost me about $2/ cache and my premium membership fees account for $.01/cache, I'd rather gas, hotels and airfares were free rather than premium membership fees.

 

If you're complaining about paying $30/year for GS services I think you have bigger problems you should attend to.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Roman!

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I think puzzle caches are elitist so we need to do away with them or create a way for me to pay for the solution.

 

There's a guy here who gets puzzle solutions in exchange for beer. That would work well for you.

There's a couple here who hide really hard puzzles. I have been amused at the folks who get mad at them for not giving the solutions away. One cacher found the hardest one, a puzzle that many have worked on for years, within a couple days and many swear they cheated. I know the hiders and finders and know that they solved it honestly but many who can't find it feel entitled to clues. People are funny.

[+narcissa]

$30 per year is such a staggering amount. Completely impossible for most people to afford. I think it should be decreased to $300 per year so that everyone can play.

 

I found some 3000 caches last year, I think on average it cost me about $2/ cache and my premium membership fees account for $.01/cache, I'd rather gas, hotels and airfares were free rather than premium membership fees.

 

If you're complaining about paying $30/year for GS services I think you have bigger problems you should attend to.

 

For me, the $30 is worthwhile for pocket queries and a couple of extra conveniences I enjoy since I do a lot of geocaching.

 

Regardless of relative affordability, $30 a year is likely not worthwhile for casual cachers who only find a handful of geocaches each year. At any rate, I don't think it's these people who complain about the fee.

 

I just don't see the utility of PMO caches and I don't see why it's necessary to continually sneer at those who prefer not to spend the $30, whether it's because of affordability or value.

[+bflentje]

Zzzz Zzzz Zzzz Zzzz.. yawn

[+Roman!]

$30 per year is such a staggering amount. Completely impossible for most people to afford. I think it should be decreased to $300 per year so that everyone can play.

 

I found some 3000 caches last year, I think on average it cost me about $2/ cache and my premium membership fees account for $.01/cache, I'd rather gas, hotels and airfares were free rather than premium membership fees.

 

If you're complaining about paying $30/year for GS services I think you have bigger problems you should attend to.

 

For me, the $30 is worthwhile for pocket queries and a couple of extra conveniences I enjoy since I do a lot of geocaching.

 

Regardless of relative affordability, $30 a year is likely not worthwhile for casual cachers who only find a handful of geocaches each year. At any rate, I don't think it's these people who complain about the fee.

 

I just don't see the utility of PMO caches and I don't see why it's necessary to continually sneer at those who prefer not to spend the $30, whether it's because of affordability or value.

 

I'd never sneer at anyone who for whatever reason chooses not to pay the $30, however, I will always sneer at those that complain about the fee and expect it all to be free.

[+narcissa]

I'd never sneer at anyone who for whatever reason chooses not to pay the $30, however, I will always sneer at those that complain about the fee and expect it all to be free.

 

Which hasn't actually happened in this thread. The thread is based on a hearsay report of an unnamed member calling it elitist:

 

"I had a member tell me paying the Groundspeak membership of $30 was elitist and that every cache should be open to everybody to find."

 

In fact, all of these threads are mainly just PMs discussing various reasons for using PMO or not, peppered with ridiculous estimates of the cost of geocaching and the occasion jab at poor people from the slightly-less-poor people in the peanut gallery.

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

I'd never sneer at anyone who for whatever reason chooses not to pay the $30, however, I will always sneer at those that complain about the fee and expect it all to be free.

 

Exactly. <sneers>

[+The_Incredibles_]

the occasion jab at poor people from the slightly-less-poor people in the peanut gallery.

 

You really aren't listening are you. I have no problem with people being poor. I have a problem with people with an entitlement complex and those who support them.

[4wheelin_fool]

I am curious at what the threshold is to become elitist. If they made it $3 a year, would that still make it snobbery? They could have the three dollar payment broken into monthly installments of twenty five cents per month, and I bet that would not stop any complaining. As it is now, I believe the payments are broken down to three dollars a month, and I don't have any idea how this could be elitist. I recall attending an event at a free zoo where there was no fee at all to get in, but there was someone collecting donations at the front car entrance. Still, there were people who parked outside and walked in because they did not want to be asked at all. I suspect this is a little like that.

[+narcissa]

I am curious at what the threshold is to become elitist.

 

Me too, since we rarely actually hear anyone legitimately complaining about elitism, we just hear from people who are hurt at the idea that someone else might think it's elitist.

 

Next thread should be about why PMO cache owners are so insecure.

[+BAMBOOZLE]

 

In fact, all of these threads are mainly just PMs discussing various reasons for using PMO or not, peppered with ridiculous estimates of the cost of geocaching and the occasion jab at poor people from the slightly-less-poor people in the peanut gallery.

 

Regarding the cost of geocaching I haven't read anything on this thread or any other that borders on being ridiculous. Romans number of $2 per cache seems dead on as he found 3000 caches in a year....This more than doubles my total finds so he pays less per cache than my $5 simply because he finds more per day while traveling. On a travel day I may find 20-30 caches, sometimes far less....it costs me more than $100 to $150 to be on the road.

The numbers don't lie.

[+narcissa]

 

In fact, all of these threads are mainly just PMs discussing various reasons for using PMO or not, peppered with ridiculous estimates of the cost of geocaching and the occasion jab at poor people from the slightly-less-poor people in the peanut gallery.

 

Regarding the cost of geocaching I haven't read anything on this thread or any other that borders on being ridiculous. Romans number of $2 per cache seems dead on as he found 3000 caches in a year....This more than doubles my total finds so he pays less per cache than my $5 simply because he finds more per day while traveling. On a travel day I may find 20-30 caches, sometimes far less....it costs me more than $100 to $150 to be on the road.

The numbers don't lie.

 

For someone who finds 2 caches a year on vacation, it's $15 a cache for a premium membership.

 

For someone who caches using public transportation, it's $5 to $10 to be on the road.

 

Geocaching encompasses a wide variety of people. Assuming that the experience of an affluent hard-core cacher is universally applicable is ridiculous. I'm not about to judge otherwise poverty-stricken cachers for spending every cent of their disposable income on caching, but it's obviously ridiculous to assume that others should do likewise with their own money.

Edited August 13, 2014 by narcissa

[Andronicus]

 

In fact, all of these threads are mainly just PMs discussing various reasons for using PMO or not, peppered with ridiculous estimates of the cost of geocaching and the occasion jab at poor people from the slightly-less-poor people in the peanut gallery.

 

Regarding the cost of geocaching I haven't read anything on this thread or any other that borders on being ridiculous. Romans number of $2 per cache seems dead on as he found 3000 caches in a year....This more than doubles my total finds so he pays less per cache than my $5 simply because he finds more per day while traveling. On a travel day I may find 20-30 caches, sometimes far less....it costs me more than $100 to $150 to be on the road.

The numbers don't lie.

 

For someone who finds 2 caches a year on vacation, it's $15 a cache for a premium membership.

 

For someone who caches using public transportation, it's $5 to $10 to be on the road.

 

Geocaching encompasses a wide variety of people. Assuming that the experience of an affluent hard-core cacher is universally applicable is ridiculous. I'm not about to judge otherwise poverty-stricken cachers for spending every cent of their disposable income on caching, but it's obviously ridiculous to assume that others should do likewise with their own money.

This is why there is a free option. There are plenty of caches that are not PMO. I really don't see an issue here.

 

A similar situation is the Express Line Wrist Bands at all the amusment parks. Everyone accepts that...

[+dprovan]

I am curious at what the threshold is to become elitist.

By definition, the threshold for something being elitist is for the person speaking to be outside the group. Then they either dream about becoming elite by getting into the group, or they complain about the group being elitist because they don't want to do what's required.

[+narcissa]

 

This is why there is a free option. There are plenty of caches that are not PMO. I really don't see an issue here.

 

A similar situation is the Express Line Wrist Bands at all the amusment parks. Everyone accepts that...

 

I don't think it is an issue. As I pointed out before, the entire basis of this thread is unattributed hearsay. Nobody actually complained. The OP is complaining about an imaginary complaint.

 

The fact that these threads are rampant is interesting, however.

 

I'd happily pay more than $30 a year for the services I get, and more if there were more services. I still wouldn't see a need to place PMO caches.

[+thebruce0]

There's a couple here who hide really hard puzzles. I have been amused at the folks who get mad at them for not giving the solutions away. One cacher found the hardest one, a puzzle that many have worked on for years, within a couple days and many swear they cheated. I know the hiders and finders and know that they solved it honestly but many who can't find it feel entitled to clues. People are funny.

That reminds me of Hans Brinker

2 years unfound. A friend and I looked at it, solved it within a week, that weekend drove 6 hours down to be the FTF. You know how much flack the CO endured for two years? And how much we endured when others back home started solving it themselves because we kept talking about it, then traveling to find it?

That CO values difficult puzzles, and has archived caches where the solutions have been made public and effectively ruined the value of the solve. And I understand that sentiment completely.

 

Some people just don't like being unable to do something

 

For someone who finds 2 caches a year on vacation, it's $15 a cache for a premium membership.

 

For someone who caches using public transportation, it's $5 to $10 to be on the road.

 

For someone who pays $100 for cable and 200 channels per month, but only watches 4 shows occasionally when bored, that's $25 per show.

 

For someone who pays $100 for cable and 200 channels per month, but skims every channel using their paid ability for freedom of choice, even though only seeing one channel at a time, that's 50 cent value per channel, at most, depending on the value they place on the freedom to choose.

 

Pay $30 for the freedom to go geocaching and with no limitations, and the added benefit of premium features, it's frankly petty to break up that numerical value evenly among the number of caches you've found. Hopefully you spread that $30 value among the entire experience you have of geocaching during that period.

Edited August 13, 2014 by thebruce0

[+narcissa]

Pay $30 for the freedom to go geocaching and with no limitations, and the added benefit of premium features, it's frankly petty to break up that numerical value evenly among the number of caches you've found. Hopefully you spread that $30 value among the entire experience you have of geocaching during that period.

 

I don't see why you would say it's petty that Roman! did that calculation for himself. For some of us, the premium membership is hands-down, no questions asked, worth the money for the features. For others, it isn't. Giving some thought to a purchase, whether it's $30 or $3000, is never petty.

 

Since PMO caches in my area are almost universally forgettable to terrible because they're placed by the geocaching equivalent of email spammers, PMO caches are not a factor in my own value decision and I would never place one.

[+thebruce0]

I say that because you're applying a strict dollar value to a single act (the find), as opposed to what the purchase actually represents. If you find two caches in a year, you're not even really making use of all that the $30 represents. If you think $15 is too much cost to find a cache, then you'd likely either think it's not worth it and cancel your subscription, or find some way to improve the value of your caching consider how much you're paying for ... whatever it is you recognize that you're pay for.

I say it's petty because the $30 is not intended to be a tangible amount to apply to your number of finds (otherwise someone finding 3000 finds gets more bang for the buck than someone with 10), but rather the ability to do so much more in your geocaching experience. If you apply the $ relative to your find count, you're certainly not making use of what it affords you in the geocaching experience. Whether that's important to you or not, blaming Groundspeak or calling others who pay and make use of all it afford them elitist... well, that's why there's debate in this thread

Just sayin', paying for premium is paying for improved experience, not a value to apply to your find count. Otherwise it's more "costly" for me in those years where I'm not as active in my geocaching. Whether I pay $30 for premium access should be based on my general experience geocaching and whether I can prioritize that cost. If I can't, I can't call anyone who can, somehow 'elitist'.

 

As mentioned earlier, it's really the intent that makes someone elitist. Premium membership itself doesn't make someone elitist.

(and I don't think I'm speaking to you specifically narcissa, preaching to the choir perhaps, not sure where you stand on the topic, can't remember just putting my 2c into the conversation)

Edited August 13, 2014 by thebruce0

[+narcissa]

I say that because you're applying a strict dollar value to a single act (the find), as opposed to what the purchase actually represents. If you find two caches in a year, you're not even really making use of all that the $30 represents. If you think $15 is too much cost to find a cache, then you'd likely either think it's not worth it and cancel your subscription, or find some way to improve the value of your caching consider how much you're paying for ... whatever it is you recognize that you're pay for.

I say it's petty because the $30 is not intended to be a tangible amount to apply to your number of finds (otherwise someone finding 3000 finds gets more bang for the buck than someone with 10), but rather the ability to do so much more in your geocaching experience. If you apply the $ relative to your find count, you're certainly not making use of what it affords you in the geocaching experience. Whether that's important to you or not, blaming Groundspeak or calling others who pay and make use of all it afford them elitist... well, that's why there's debate in this thread

Just sayin', paying for premium is paying for improved experience, not a value to apply to your find count. Otherwise it's more "costly" for me in those years where I'm not as active in my geocaching. Whether I pay $30 for premium access should be based on my general experience geocaching and whether I can prioritize that cost. If I can't, I can't call anyone who can, somehow 'elitist'.

 

As mentioned earlier, it's really the intent that makes someone elitist. Premium membership itself doesn't make someone elitist.

(and I don't think I'm speaking to you specifically narcissa, preaching to the choir perhaps, not sure where you stand on the topic, can't remember just putting my 2c into the conversation)

 

How somebody makes the decision to pay or not pay is a personal matter. Breaking it down by finds might not be helpful to you, but it's certainly not petty if someone is considering their expenses and that is what they need to do to justify the expense to themselves (or someone else in the household).

 

Premium membership is worthwhile to me because of the pocket queries, and that's about it. When I didn't have it because I wasn't caching as often, my caching experience was in no way diminished. That's because PMO caches aren't very good around here (in fact, screening them out would probably enhance my experience). So my decision to buy the membership based, almost entirely, on my preference for pocket queries. So, from my perspective, claiming that it's about the experience is simply false.

 

Everyone seems to be in a rage to argue that premium membership isn't elitist, when there's nobody actually claiming that it is - just an unsubstantiated, third-hand remark from someone who hasn't even returned to the thread.

[+thebruce0]

How somebody makes the decision to pay or not pay is a personal matter.

I said as much

 

Breaking it down by finds might not be helpful to you, but it's certainly not petty if someone is considering their expenses and that is what they need to do to justify the expense to themselves (or someone else in the household).

I said as much. I said it's petty (of course there may be a better word) because applying the dollar value to number of finds is devaluing Groundspeak's intention for the fee. You get MUCH more than just finds by paying the fee. My comment was in regards to the example in the comment used earlier breaking $30 up across either 2 caches or 3000 caches. THAT draws a value distinction between how people geocache, and perpetuates this "elitist" thing.

 

Premium membership is worthwhile to me because of the pocket queries, and that's about it.

Great!

 

When I didn't have it because I wasn't caching as often, my caching experience was in no way diminished. That's because PMO caches aren't very good around here (in fact, screening them out would probably enhance my experience). So my decision to buy the membership based, almost entirely, on my preference for pocket queries. So, from my perspective, claiming that it's about the experience is simply false.

Your geocaching experiene didn't change one bit whether you had pocket queries or not? If not, then why did you buy the access to pocket queries? OTOH, if that's why you may choose not to renew, precisely because of that question, then great - as I agreed, anyone can prioritize the $30 cost however they like, and that's perfectly fine.

 

Everyone seems to be in a rage to argue that premium membership isn't elitist, when there's nobody actually claiming that it is - just an unsubstantiated, third-hand remark from someone who hasn't even returned to the thread.

It's not just this thread. The "elitist" thing comes up regularly. I'm rarely ever a part of the discussion. But I firmly agree that it's intent of the cacher, not the fact that they're a premium member. You can even be elitist without being a premium member. Tying the PM fee with elitism is just wrong

Edited August 13, 2014 by thebruce0

[+GeoBain]

You can even be elitist without being a premium member. Tying the PM fee with elitism is just wrong

 

This was the point I was trying to make. Having a premium subscription does not make one elitist.

 

I think some confused "PMO can be elitist" with "PMO IS elitist".

 

Anything can be elitist. It depends on why you are doing it.

 

Besides, what is so wrong with being elite, anyway?

 

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

Besides, what is so wrong with being elite, anyway?

 

Exactly. I think we should just admit that we pay our $30/year mainly so our superiority can be recognized.

I know I do.

[+narcissa]

It's not just this thread. The "elitist" thing comes up regularly. I'm rarely ever a part of the discussion. But I firmly agree that it's intent of the cacher, not the fact that they're a premium member. You can even be elitist without being a premium member. Tying the PM fee with elitism is just wrong

 

The word "elitism" sadly derails any chance of a legitimate discussion about the merits of PMO caches. There's certainly nothing "elite" about barfing out 500 unimaginative film cans and clicking the PMO box for every one.

 

The saving grace is that new cachers who don't have premium membership are less likely to see one of these lame caches and more likely to find a good cache, placed by a good cache owner.

[4wheelin_fool]

Everyone seems to be in a rage to argue that premium membership isn't elitist, when there's nobody actually claiming that it is - just an unsubstantiated, third-hand remark from someone who hasn't even returned to the thread.

It's not just this thread. The "elitist" thing comes up regularly. I'm rarely ever a part of the discussion. But I firmly agree that it's intent of the cacher, not the fact that they're a premium member. You can even be elitist without being a premium member. Tying the PM fee with elitism is just wrong

 

It has came up a lot, but it comes up less frequently as time goes on, as the elitism claims are slowly fading away. The first thread about it that I can recall, equated a premium member cache with the whore of Babylon. I can't find it, and suspect that it has been deleted.

 

edit- cant find the reference

Edited August 14, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+cheech gang]

I think someone would be truly elite if they were to send me a gift premium membership.

[+Viajero Perdido]

I had a member tell me paying the Groundspeak membership of $30 was elitist and that every cache should be open to everybody to find.

I think somebody wishes they lived in a socialist paradise where they could set the rules for proper human behavior. Why, in such a world they'd be elite for having the proper thinking.

 

There, I said it.

[+narcissa]

Truly elite caches exclude finders simply by being difficult to get to.

[+thebruce0]

Truly elite caches exclude finders simply by being difficult to get to.

 

Then every cache is "elite" to someone. Except, ironically, perhaps, that lonely wheelchair-accessible LPC in the back corner of the plaza parking lot.

[+narcissa]

Truly elite caches exclude finders simply by being difficult to get to.

 

Then every cache is "elite" to someone. Except, ironically, perhaps, that lonely wheelchair-accessible LPC in the back corner of the plaza parking lot.

 

My husband gets the most hilarious DNF logs from people who can't handle his complex letterbox caches. Some of them are quite angry about it.

[+wmpastor]

I had "a member" tell me paying the Groundspeak membership of $30 was elitist and that every cache should be open to everybody to find.

I think somebody wishes they lived in a socialist paradise where they could set the rules for proper human behavior. Why, in such a world they'd be elite for having the proper thinking.

 

There, I said it.

It's not often you can become "elite" by paying only $30! That's a bargain!

 

And why can't that member come here and speak for himself/herself??