Is it too crazy to asker cachers to...

[Andronicus]

I am working on setting up a multi that requires searchers to find a bunch of survey markers, then use the information from them to solve a simple field puzzle.

 

Is it too crazy to expect cachers in an urban environment to get really close to an electric fence so that they can read the numbers from a survey marker that is about 1.5 feet on the other side. Also, they would have to jump a 3.5' or 4' chain link fence to get to the electric fence.

 

All this said, they would not have to enter private land I am not sure why the chain link fence is there; it is not on the property line between the private and public land. It also doesn't keep people from the electric fence, as it ends about 70yards further south (no you can't go around that way, as it butts up to the electric fence).

 

I can't decide if I should remove this survey marker from the puzzle to make it less crazy, or leave it in to increase the challange.

[+cerberus1]

Seriously?

When something as simple as container lids aren't idiot proof, you want 'em standing near an electric fence?

[+Car54]

I suspect the OP was posting "tongue in cheek". Got a GC code?

 

Mrs. Car54

[+Team Microdot]

I suspect the OP was posting "tongue in cheek". Got a GC code?

 

Mrs. Car54

 

Oooh! You beat me to it

[+DanOCan]

Seriously?

When something as simple as container lids aren't idiot proof, you want 'em standing near an electric fence?

Maybe this will serve as a form of shock therapy to smarten them up.

 

I say if you make the electric fence known on the cache page then if anyone who gets a nasty surprise it's a case of caveat emptor. I think it sounds like a fun cache and I hope you get it published.

[+wmpastor]

I suspect the OP was posting "tongue in cheek". Got a GC code?

 

Mrs. Car54

You mean he's a troll?

 

This is what's called an accident waiting to happen.

[Andronicus]

I suspect the OP was posting "tongue in cheek". Got a GC code?

 

Mrs. Car54

No, I am serious. I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

[+wmpastor]

Seriously?

When something as simple as container lids aren't idiot proof, you want 'em standing near an electric fence?

Maybe this will serve as a form of shock therapy to smarten them up.

 

I say if you make the electric fence known on the cache page then if anyone who gets a nasty surprise it's a case of caveat emptor. I think it sounds like a fun cache and I hope you get it published.

We've had grizzled veterans in the forums admit they seek caches without even glancing at the cache page. The warning must be in the name, like "Danger! Beware!" or "Electrocution."

 

It's more like this cache idea is half baked and so the cacher will be roasted.

[+Car54]

I suspect the OP was posting "tongue in cheek". Got a GC code?

 

Mrs. Car54

No, I am serious. I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished.

 

Oops - my bad. Sorry about that.

 

Mrs. Car54

[+cerberus1]

I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

If it's no longer a functional fence, it'd be a fun stage.

Logs would be interesting also.

- Active and someone trips into it - not so much.

[+wmpastor]

I suspect the OP was posting "tongue in cheek". Got a GC code?

 

Mrs. Car54

No, I am serious. I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

Oh, you mean like a cattle fence. I touched one once and got a stinging zap. Not dangerous (unless you have a heart condition or something?).

[+Team Microdot]

Hmmmm....

 

Sow the seed that it's a good idea to go climbing fences and get real close to electrical equipment...

 

Make it non PMO so everyone can see it - even those who aren't even aware that there are guidelines - let alone read any of them...

 

Wait for someone to come along and think what a cool idea it is - but how they could go one step better - make it cooler, more exciting...

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[Andronicus]

I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

If it's no longer a functional fence, it'd be a fun stage.

Logs would be interesting also.

- Active and someone trips into it - not so much.

Good point, it was not electrified when I was there, and judging by its state of repair, I would guess it can't be, but I don't know.

[4wheelin_fool]

Seriously?

When something as simple as container lids aren't idiot proof, you want 'em standing near an electric fence?

Maybe this will serve as a form of shock therapy to smarten them up.

 

I say if you make the electric fence known on the cache page then if anyone who gets a nasty surprise it's a case of caveat emptor. I think it sounds like a fun cache and I hope you get it published.

We've had grizzled veterans in the forums admit they seek caches without even glancing at the cache page. The warning must be in the name, like "Danger! Beware!" or "Electrocution."

 

It's more like this cache idea is half baked and so the cacher will be roasted.

 

If they are getting virtual information, then they have to read the page. It's not a regular multi. I don't think anyone would get injured, the question is whether it will draw suspicion and whether the property manager would appreciate it.

[+DanOCan]

We've had grizzled veterans in the forums admit they seek caches without even glancing at the cache page. The warning must be in the name, like "Danger! Beware!" or "Electrocution."

Hence my "caveat emptor" comment. If someone can't be bothered to read descriptions I don't need to be bothered feeling sorry for them.

[+CanadianRockies]

All this said, they would not have to enter private land I am not sure why the chain link fence is there; it is not on the property line between the private and public land.

I'd check with the land manager, as I think the existence of a fence might take away any implied permission for the public to access the property. If the fence is there to mark the edge of a baseball outfield, then it's probably not an issue. If the fence is there to keep people out of an equipment storage area or away from some sensitive environment, then not so good.

 

Being public land doesn't automatically give the public carte blanche to be there.

[Andronicus]

All this said, they would not have to enter private land I am not sure why the chain link fence is there; it is not on the property line between the private and public land.

I'd check with the land manager, as I think the existence of a fence might take away any implied permission for the public to access the property. If the fence is there to mark the edge of a baseball outfield, then it's probably not an issue. If the fence is there to keep people out of an equipment storage area or away from some sensitive environment, then not so good.

 

Being public land doesn't automatically give the public carte blanche to be there.

Good point.

 

here is the layout. The red line is the electric fence, the green line is the chain link fence, the purple line is a low cable fence, the purple dot is the survey marker. You can also see a paved walking path under the google maps dotted line There is no equipment in the area, it is not sensitive (it is covered with weeds and thistles). As you can see, a lot of people (dog walkers?) actualy cross the electric fence where the chainlik fence meets it (so my guess is that it is non-functional).

[+sbell111]

<deleted in favor of next post>

Edited August 7, 2014 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

I am working on setting up a multi that requires searchers to find a bunch of survey markers, then use the information from them to solve a simple field puzzle.

 

Is it too crazy to expect cachers in an urban environment to get really close to an electric fence so that they can read the numbers from a survey marker that is about 1.5 feet on the other side. Also, they would have to jump a 3.5' or 4' chain link fence to get to the electric fence.

 

All this said, they would not have to enter private land I am not sure why the chain link fence is there; it is not on the property line between the private and public land. It also doesn't keep people from the electric fence, as it ends about 70yards further south (no you can't go around that way, as it butts up to the electric fence).

 

I can't decide if I should remove this survey marker from the puzzle to make it less crazy, or leave it in to increase the challange.

I think that it's unreasonable to believe that the chain link fence is there for no reason. One would assume that it exists to keep people on one side of it. If you expect cachers to cross the chain link fence, then you would need to work out the permission issue, in my opinion.

 

It should be noted that from your picture, I'm not convinced that any of that is actually public land.

[Andronicus]

...There's a fence that doesn't need to be crossed, ...

There is the chainlink fence (green on the picture) that needs to be crossed. You can't squeez around in on the South side. I do remember getting around it on the North side previously (with my kids) for a different cache. Maybe there is a hole in it to the North (made by... dog walkers?), or maybe it ended to the North, I can't remeber for sure.

 

Edit: I see you deleted the post I commented to, so I will delete mos of the quote, but leave the part relevent to my reply...

Edited August 7, 2014 by Andronicus

[Andronicus]

...It should be noted that from your picture, I'm not convinced that any of that is actually public land.

The property line appears to be along the electric/barbed wire fence (the red line on the map).

Edited August 7, 2014 by Andronicus

[+T.D.M.22]

You're in Calgary right? So I'm assuming the electric fence is one of those yellow ones? They'll shock you, but won't hurt you. Or at least I was never hurt by them. We used to push each other into those things.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but if that's city/county land the chain fence is to guide people away since there's nothing there, rather than a property thing. My interpretation is that the way it's laid out, it's not trespassing unless there are signs you haven't told us about.

 

I say go for it. I wouldn't avoid that cache.

[Andronicus]

You're in Calgary right? So I'm assuming the electric fence is one of those yellow ones? They'll shock you, but won't hurt you. Or at least I was never hurt by them. We used to push each other into those things.

 

I'm not 100% sure, but if that's city/county land the chain fence is to guide people away since there's nothing there, rather than a property thing. My interpretation is that the way it's laid out, it's not trespassing unless there are signs you haven't told us about.

 

I say go for it. I wouldn't avoid that cache.

There is yellow plastic signs on the electrical wire warning of the electrical nature of the wire... (yes in Calgary)

 

There are no tresspassing signs where the green and red line meet, indicating not to cross the fence along the red line (the electric/barbed wire fence).

 

Another point that may or may not be relevetn is that the land on the east side of the red line is for sale. I think that it will be sold to a developer, and light industrial will be put in there in the next year or so.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Andronicus

[CryptikFox]

Just because you're not sure why the fence is there doesn't mean it isn't there for no reason.

 

I personally have jumped a fence that I deemed "pointless" at the time only to be kicked out by an angry land owner.

[+RocTheCacheBox]

A 3.5 - 4 foot chain link fence that needs to "jumped"? Is this Bob Fosbury doing the caching? The fence would have to be climbed not jumped. Climbing leads to damage of the fence. Someone bought and paid for that fence even if was taxpayers. You need KNOW who (if anyone) owns the fence and if they mind people being on the land and climbing the fence.

[Andronicus]

A 3.5 - 4 foot chain link fence that needs to "jumped"? Is this Bob Fosbury doing the caching? The fence would have to be climbed not jumped. Climbing leads to damage of the fence. Someone bought and paid for that fence even if was taxpayers. You need KNOW who (if anyone) owns the fence and if they mind people being on the land and climbing the fence.

I jumped it with a backpack on(or maybe more vaulted over it). I am 5'9" (exactly average for a North American Male).

[4wheelin_fool]

Jut be sure to put an electric shocking pen in the final container.

[+Mudfrog]

A 3.5 - 4 foot chain link fence that needs to "jumped"? Is this Bob Fosbury doing the caching? The fence would have to be climbed not jumped. Climbing leads to damage of the fence. Someone bought and paid for that fence even if was taxpayers. You need KNOW who (if anyone) owns the fence and if they mind people being on the land and climbing the fence.

 

This is the way i see it as well. The fence is there for a reason and i sincerely doubt that its owner would appreciate people jumping or climbing over it.

[+WarNinjas]

I'm not against the idea at all but my thought is that if you decided to come on here to ask you probably think there might be a problem with it. I think that might be your answer right there but do what ever you think is best. We would probably find it.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

Unless that chain link fence grew out of the ground...someone placed it there. I would find out who and get permission to cross it before making any other plans for that spot.

 

Personally, I wouldn't include this survey marker. It's not the electric fence that is the issue...it's the fact that the marker is on private property. While you don't HAVE to enter the property, you KNOW some cacher(s) will trespass onto the private property. If you think they won't, you're just trying to fool yourself. Including a waypoint that might induce cachers to trespass onto private property is being an irresponsible cache owner. It does sounds like a fun cache to do, so why take the chance that it gets archived because of trespass issues?

[+SwineFlew]

LOL! electric fence? Since my family are country people, I grew up knowing about those fences at a very young age.(I got a few stories, but thats for another day) They don't scare me and I had see a few caches thats very close to them.

 

I would say, go ahead and do it. I guess a few idiots got to learn the hard way. I know I did.

[+wmpastor]

I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

If it's no longer a functional fence, it'd be a fun stage.

Logs would be interesting also.

- Active and someone trips into it - not so much.

How do we know if it's functional - touch it?

 

And if it's not functional, it will be when the owner gets tired of cachers nearby!

[+TheHarleyRebel]

I would say no, unless it is inactive.

[+cerberus1]

I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

If it's no longer a functional fence, it'd be a fun stage.

Logs would be interesting also.

- Active and someone trips into it - not so much.

How do we know if it's functional - touch it?

Broken boxes, disconnected sections...

[+humboldt flier]

Heyyyyyyyy,

 

An encounter with an electric fence can "make your day"

 

Can improve your situational awareness, can heighten one's resolve to LOOK BEFORE TOUCHING.

 

Back in the day I bucked hay for a dairy farmer ... his wife had arthritis and when the aches and pains bothered her too much she went out to the adjacent pasture and grabbed a wire and "took a hit". Seemed extreme to me, however, being a young hay bucker who was I to have an informed opinion.

 

Had to admire her moxy for grabbing a hot fence ... that lady was tougher than me.

Edited August 8, 2014 by humboldt flier

[+fuzziebear3]

If it could be accessed from the other side, it would be fine. If it could be seen from outside the chain link fence, that would be fine. But crossing (climbing or jumping) the chain link fence is not a good encouragement. And then there is an electric fence too. All of that adds up to NO, it shouldn't be a part of your cache.

[+Team Microdot]

Back in the day I bucked hay for a dairy farmer ... his wife had arthritis and when the aches and pains bothered her too much she went out to the adjacent pasture and grabbed a wire and "took a hit". Seemed extreme to me, however, being a young hay bucker who was I to have an informed opinion.

 

Had to admire her moxy for grabbing a hot fence ... that lady was tougher than me.

 

Could have had an effect similar to a TENS machine?

[+RocTheCacheBox]

A 3.5 - 4 foot chain link fence that needs to "jumped"? Is this Bob Fosbury doing the caching? The fence would have to be climbed not jumped. Climbing leads to damage of the fence. Someone bought and paid for that fence even if was taxpayers. You need KNOW who (if anyone) owns the fence and if they mind people being on the land and climbing the fence.

I jumped it with a backpack on(or maybe more vaulted over it). I am 5'9" (exactly average for a North American Male).

Well then, I'm sure everyone that attempts your cache will be able to jump it also. Guess I was wrong. No one will try to climb over the fence (that doesn't belong to anyone because it grew there)and no damage will come to it.

Please disregard my opinion and the opinion of others concerned about the issues with your cache.

[Andronicus]

A 3.5 - 4 foot chain link fence that needs to "jumped"? Is this Bob Fosbury doing the caching? The fence would have to be climbed not jumped. Climbing leads to damage of the fence. Someone bought and paid for that fence even if was taxpayers. You need KNOW who (if anyone) owns the fence and if they mind people being on the land and climbing the fence.

I jumped it with a backpack on(or maybe more vaulted over it). I am 5'9" (exactly average for a North American Male).

Well then, I'm sure everyone that attempts your cache will be able to jump it also. Guess I was wrong. No one will try to climb over the fence (that doesn't belong to anyone because it grew there)and no damage will come to it.

Please disregard my opinion and the opinion of others concerned about the issues with your cache.

I am not trying to argue or discount your point. I am just trying to state the facts, and listen to everyones opinion.

 

FYI, I am currently looking for a replacement for this one. Seems a little too scetchy. I had fun finding it, but not sure I can expect GS to list a cache with that one.

[+Michaelcycle]

Regardless of the fences, the data on that marker is publicly available. I accessed it from home here in South Jersey. Pick another data point (NOT an ASCM)

 

It gets harder to make good multis every day. Unfortunate, in my opinion.

[Andronicus]

...

Pst... Don't mention that... Most people don't know were to get the info, but of course, where do you think I found out where these are?

[+justintim1999]

It all sounds good until someone gets hurt. Not worth the risk. No cache is.

[Andronicus]

I had really wanted this one to be included because most of the others were way too easy (even visible on google street view), but I found a couple to the north in the rural area. I am going to remove this one, and the rural ones.

[4wheelin_fool]

...

Pst... Don't mention that... Most people don't know were to get the info, but of course, where do you think I found out where these are?

 

So, make it a puzzle. Tell them that they have the option of solving it online, or visiting the location, unless there is something else interesting there. I don't think anyone would get shocked, as they would be required to read the page. The only question is the property access, and whether the property manager would appreciate the traffic as fences are put up for reasons.

[GPS-Hermit]

Seriously you need to post a no Peeing zone around the fence - that can really be bad news causing the inability to walk at all. Of coarse the logs would be great, no matter who goes or what they do to deal with it! Someone is bound to throw a jacket over it an stratle the fence. Earn that smiley! A big part of geocaching is reading great logs! I can't wait!

[+wmpastor]

I found the survey marker while setting up this cache. No code yet, as it is unpublished. here si the warning that I currently have on the unpublished cache page:

WARNING: Waypoint 3 (V3, Coverton Hights) is about 1.5 feet on the far side of an electric / barbed wire fence. You don't need to cross the fence onto the private land. You can get the info from the the near side. It was not electrified when I visited, but my be at times. Try not to zap yourself.

If it's no longer a functional fence, it'd be a fun stage.

Logs would be interesting also.

- Active and someone trips into it - not so much.

How do we know if it's functional - touch it?

Broken boxes, disconnected sections...

Lots of functional electronic stuff looks exactly like that - haven't you read about our deteriorating infrastructure??

[Andronicus]

FYI here is the listing for this cache now that it is published

7 Survey Markers in and around Coventry Hills

 

The marker in question on this thread was removed. However, it can be seen as a waypoint on the "related webpage" link.