What were they thinking?

[medoug]

I have a roadside geocache (hidden in the road ditch). The roadway is cut through the rock creating a fairly large bluff. The cache is hidden in a pile of rubble at the base of this bluff. A little farther up the road there is a dirt (not graveled or paved) farm driveway which bridges the road ditch with a culvert allowing water to flow through the road ditch. This is a private drive for the farmer to access his field with farm equipment. A geocacher recently logged their find of this cache as follows:

 

“This one amused me. Of course I did things the hard way and actually drove up on top of the bluff along the farm field. It then dawned on me, should drive back down along the roadside and bushwhack the way over. Quick find other wise.”

 

I'm not sure why they used the term "bushwhack" as there is only grass (not trees or shrubs) between the roadway and the hidden cache, though the ditch is rather steep. That the cacher actually drove in the farmers field with their vehicle seems almost unimaginable to me! Actions like this definitely do not represent geocaching in a positive light.

 

Does stupid behavior like this happen with other caches/cachers? Please give your feedback or examples of other similarly stupid geocaching behavior that you have come across.

[medoug]

I was so stunned by their actions that I sent them the following message:

 

“Hello XXXX,

I'm not sure where to begin, but I feel that I must respond to your recent log on my XXXX XXXXX geocache. I can hardly believe you actually drove in the farmer's field . What were you thinking? It's never OK to leave the roadway with a vehicle when geocaching. With the recent heavy rains we've had, it's a wonder that you didn't get stuck. I hope you didn't leave ruts in your path. Actions like this gives geocaching a bad name.”

[+JesandTodd]

It's never OK to leave the roadway with a vehicle when geocaching.

 

Uhhh..if that were a true story my find count would be decreased by 1000.

 

Seriously.

 

 

Does stupid behavior like this happen with other caches/cachers? Please give your feedback......

 

Feedback? I'd say your response was very rude. First, being rude via email, then post about it in the forums? Eegads.

 

Perhaps we can teach/mentor our noobs instead of chastisizing ?

Actions like this definitely do not represent geocaching in a positive light

 

True that. Next time this guy will leave a "tftc" because of your email.

Edited June 28, 2014 by JesandTodd

[+dprovan]

It's your cache that they couldn't figure out how to get to. Why are you blaming them?

 

And "bushwhack" is used for any off trail walking, at least in my area, not exclusively for off trail walking that actually involves whacking bushes.

[+Lieblweb]

I was so stunned by their actions that I sent them the following message:

 

“Hello XXXX,

I'm not sure where to begin, but I feel that I must respond to your recent log on my XXXX XXXXX geocache. I can hardly believe you actually drove in the farmer's field . What were you thinking? It's never OK to leave the roadway with a vehicle when geocaching. With the recent heavy rains we've had, it's a wonder that you didn't get stuck. I hope you didn't leave ruts in your path. Actions like this gives geocaching a bad name.”

 

In my opinion, that's NOT a very good way to respond to them (or anyone for that matter).

 

Their actions are totally normal given the circumstances.

 

When you have a cache hidden, its totally obvious TO YOU how easy it is to find it or the paths to take to find it. However - people are visiting your cache are not familiar with the area and aren't familiar with the terrain. They view things differently than you do.

 

I'm willing to bet, they're not the only ones to go thru that same scenario. They're the only ones to mention it in their logs.

 

Not a good idea to leave the roadway? HUH?? I guess my 4X4 is useless then.... Just sayin....

In my area - bushwhacking means to WALK thru an area that isn't a trail and walking thru bushy areas (overgrowth, thorns, greenery, etc).

Edited June 28, 2014 by Lieblweb

[+Isonzo Karst]

Your hint is "hidden on the plateau" and you're surprised that someone went to the top of the ridge to find the cache? ... interesting

[+J Grouchy]

I was so stunned by their actions that I sent them the following message:

 

“Hello XXXX,

I'm not sure where to begin, but I feel that I must respond to your recent log on my XXXX XXXXX geocache. I can hardly believe you actually drove in the farmer's field . What were you thinking? It's never OK to leave the roadway with a vehicle when geocaching. With the recent heavy rains we've had, it's a wonder that you didn't get stuck. I hope you didn't leave ruts in your path. Actions like this gives geocaching a bad name.”

 

If I received an email like that, I don't even think I would respond. Essentially you are saying "you did everything wrong, you're kind of stupid and I hope you didn't make me look like a fool". Whether you are in the right or not, there are dozens of much more diplomatic ways of phrasing it without coming off as condescending and rude.

[+JL_HSTRE]

Perhaps you should add a Parking waypoint?

[Mr.Yuck]

Tough crowd. I do think people should know better than to drive in a farmer's field.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Tough crowd. I do think people should know better than to drive in a farmer's field.

 

I wasn't sure whether they were driving over the crops, or just driving on a dirt road plowed around the perimeter of the farm.

 

Man, I'm sure glad I didn't receive an email like that every time I made things difficult and took a ridiculous route on my way to the cache.

 

When you have a cache hidden, its totally obvious TO YOU how easy it is to find it or the paths to take to find it. However - people are visiting your cache are not familiar with the area and aren't familiar with the terrain. They view things differently than you do.

 

Excellent point. It's really hard to know for sure how people will try to get to a cache. I had one just a few feet from a trail, and people were complaining about having to hike through poison oak to get it. I never did find the poison oak. If they just walked the shortest distance from the trail, like I did, then everything would have been fine, but I think I forgot to account for a sharp bend in the trail, or the fact that most people would be coming at it from the other end of the trail, where the nearest campground was.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Tough crowd. I do think people should know better than to drive in a farmer's field.

 

I wasn't sure whether they were driving over the crops, or just driving on a dirt road plowed around the perimeter of the farm.

 

Man, I'm sure glad I didn't receive an email like that every time I made things difficult and took a ridiculous route on my way to the cache.

 

When you have a cache hidden, its totally obvious TO YOU how easy it is to find it or the paths to take to find it. However - people are visiting your cache are not familiar with the area and aren't familiar with the terrain. They view things differently than you do.

 

Excellent point. It's really hard to know for sure how people will try to get to a cache. I had one just a few feet from a trail, and people were complaining about having to hike through poison oak to get it. I never did find the poison oak. If they just walked the shortest distance from the trail, like I did, then everything would have been fine, but I think I forgot to account for a sharp bend in the trail, or the fact that most people would be coming at it from the other end of the trail, where the nearest campground was.

 

If there is a wrong way to do it, there will ALWAYS be someone that will find it!

[Luckless]

Writing them and telling them you’re concerned about what they did and explaining to them that they were on private property and that they should not do that is okay. Some people aren’t very mindful of other people’s property. Maybe you were a little harsh, but hopefully it left an impression so they don’t trespass again.

 

As someone who has hidden many caches I know that when you hide a cache it is very important to not only consider how to help cachers find the cache, but also to consider the 101 ways they can screw up doing that. I’ve abandoned some great hide ideas because there was the possibility of trouble. I’ve hidden caches in stone walls that people have dismantled, I’ve hidden them in lovely trees that have had the branches broken off, I’ve hidden them near a public garden where someone sifted through every inch of mulch scattering it near and far. I no longer hide caches in stone walls or beautifully trimmed trees in the park or near gardens. I try to anticipate things that people might do. My cache pages may be full of instructions of what not to do. It may have instructions like : The cache is not located in the cemetery. It is located just outside. Please be respectful of this place. ( I myself was quite angry once when I found a geocache someone had hidden in a cemetery and the last finder had used a broken piece of gravestone to cover it up with. Really? That’s just a no no.) You now know that there could be problems with people finding your cache. Someone here mentioned posting parking coordinates for your cache which sounds like a good idea. Another said your clue may have caused some confusion.

 

Recently a friend was telling me about a cache we both had found. It involved a cache hidden in a container that you added water to so the cache floated to the top where you could grab it. I had read about these caches so I knew how to do it. My friend had not. He unscrewed the container, dumped out the cache then filled the container up with stones so the cache would be in easy reach near the top of the container when the container was screwed back in place. He thought he had met what he was supposed to do to get the cache since there were no instructions from the owner about what to do with the water they were instructed to bring to the cache other than to drink it.

 

Being both a cache hider and a cache placer I can see both sides. Hopefully both finder and hider will work to make this game fun and enjoyable for all involved -the hider, the finder, the land owner and his neighbors).

[+-CJ-]

If there is a wrong way to do it, there will ALWAYS be someone that will find it!

 

Definitely.

 

Every task has some number of obvious, quick, excellently looking, wrong solutions.

 

Has anything similar happened to my caches? Yes. It often required some nerves and politeness to avoid conflicts. Sometimes people tend to blame COs for every wrong move they do. However IMHO this is not the reason for being rude with them.

[+1962penny]

"just when I thought my cache was fool-proof, here came along a new and improved fool." -CoolCache

 

There will be people that mess up the cache, but that is no excuse as me as the cache owner to be rude to them. The logger talked about here (IMHO) is actualy being quite humble, publicly confessing (S)he messed up, and a warning to others to not make the same mistake. I would take that log and say thank you. The logger now alerted you that there may be some confusion on how to approach a cache.

 

Gee, if I received that email that OP posted....

[+J Grouchy]

I had one just a few feet from a trail, and people were complaining about having to hike through poison oak to get it. I never did find the poison oak. If they just walked the shortest distance from the trail, like I did, then everything would have been fine, but I think I forgot to account for a sharp bend in the trail, or the fact that most people would be coming at it from the other end of the trail, where the nearest campground was.

 

I generally assume the CO hid in a fairly accessible area unless they say otherwise. More often than not, if I just stay on a trail, it'll eventually meander close to the cache location.

 

I did get that sort of response on one of my recent caches. There's a paved trail...and an unmarked trail. The cache is off the unmarked trail whose trailhead is directly off the parking area. Apparently folks were cutting directly over from the paved trail and having a rough time of it. I didn't think it was necessary to post a waypoint for the trailhead, but they demonstrated that I obviously did need to.

[+cerberus1]

I generally assume the CO hid in a fairly accessible area unless they say otherwise. More often than not, if I just stay on a trail, it'll eventually meander close to the cache location.

Same here.

A series near me has wide, gamelands roads and trails. 1.5/1.5 hides.

The CO says on the cache pages these are simply to get folks out and walk a bit.

- Yet the logs come in on what a tough, ticky bushwack it was...

[+NYPaddleCacher]

It's never OK to leave the roadway with a vehicle when geocaching.

 

Uhhh..if that were a true story my find count would be decreased by 1000.

 

 

 

There are certainly many places where it would be okay to leave the roadway *while in a vehicle" when geocaching. The private property in a farmers field is not one of them.

[+JesandTodd]

And I'm sure it was perfectly obvious that that roadway was private. Yeahhhh. That's why this whole situation happened. But you could re-read and see he said "never ok"

 

hey lookie, I can add a lame emoticon too

[+narcissa]

I don't think it was appropriate for you to email that cacher privately. The way to deal with a situation like this is to make sure you have parking coordinates indicated, and update the cache description. Sometimes cachers do silly things, especially if the coordinates are a little off - in a situation like the one you describe, just ten feet can make a big difference in how you approach the cache.

[4wheelin_fool]

I've been off roading many times in multiple places, but never thought that a farmer's field was fair game and dont have any idea how someone could think it was fine to drive on, as its fairly obvious that you should not drive in such a place. Nobody can tell exactly how bad it was without being there, but some people just dont think. It reminds me of this thread of a few people who drove onto a baseball field, got stuck, and damaged 20 feet of it.

 

I was unloading my kayak the other day, and a family pulled up on the boat ramp used for trailered boats, parked their van directly in the middle, and unloaded their lawn chairs and fishing gear nearby. I just watched them, amazed. As they were setting everything up, someone said "Do you really think we should park there?" The answer I heard was "I dont see any signs". Yes, the sign was missing, but really?

[+Mudfrog]

Looked at the cache page and also took a look at things through google earth. Maybe i'm missing something here but i don't see any reason why the finder should have angst thrown his way.

 

If my gpsr pointed to a spot up the hill and i see a road heading up that hill with no gates or signs, then why wouldn't i think the cache might be hidden up there? Sounds like this is what the finder did. He went up, checked and figured out the cache wasn't up there, then came back down. Doesn't sound like he went offroading in the farmer's field at all.

 

I think an apology is in order!

[4wheelin_fool]

It's your cache that they couldn't figure out how to get to. Why are you blaming them?

 

Probably because people are expected to take responsibility for their own actions. It's also noted in the Terms Of Use and sometimes that isnt good enough, so a few COs place it directly on the cache page anyway. I'm sure he feels a bit responsible anyhow, since he started this thread, but if every cache was required to be idiot proof, then there wouldn't be any.

 

One reason that I made a certain cache into a puzzle, was so that finders would read the page and park in the correct spot. I also placed the ? at the parking coords, as well as added a Parking Area waypoint at the bottom, and described how to get there. I still received a log from someone saying that they didn't know where to park or enter, so they cut through someone's yard and had to explain what they were doing to the homeowner. I didn't send them any e-mail, but they sure deserved one.

Edited June 30, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+DanOCan]

I have a roadside geocache (hidden in the road ditch). The roadway is cut through the rock creating a fairly large bluff. The cache is hidden in a pile of rubble at the base of this bluff. A little farther up the road there is a dirt (not graveled or paved) farm driveway which bridges the road ditch with a culvert allowing water to flow through the road ditch. This is a private drive for the farmer to access his field with farm equipment. A geocacher recently logged their find of this cache as follows:

 

“This one amused me. Of course I did things the hard way and actually drove up on top of the bluff along the farm field. It then dawned on me, should drive back down along the roadside and bushwhack the way over. Quick find other wise.”

 

I'm not sure why they used the term "bushwhack" as there is only grass (not trees or shrubs) between the roadway and the hidden cache, though the ditch is rather steep. That the cacher actually drove in the farmers field with their vehicle seems almost unimaginable to me! Actions like this definitely do not represent geocaching in a positive light.

 

Does stupid behavior like this happen with other caches/cachers? Please give your feedback or examples of other similarly stupid geocaching behavior that you have come across.

I looked up the cache in question and did the best "stalking" I could via StreetView and the overhead images.

 

This is a a mistake I could easily see myself making. The hint says the cache is on the plateau and there is a perfectly good road leading up to the top. The road is not gated or signed and since many caches are hidden on private property I likely wouldn't think twice about driving up there to see if it takes me closer to the cache instead of parking on the main road.

 

From the looks of the overhead view, there is a well-established set of dirt tracks running along the perimeter of the field which would be perfect for driving on without disturbing any crops. Yes, there still could be the

issue of creating ruts but not knowing what they were driving, I'd venture that unless it was a big 4x4 they would have gotten stuck so they likely weren't doing much damage.

 

Yes, people shouldn't venture onto private property but I really think you overreacted.

 

EDIT TO ADD: Of course, I realize I am basing my opinion on the subset of information I have available to me and I realize -- by virtue of having actually been to the location in question -- you are in a better position to judge the situation.

 

EDIT TO ALSO ADD: Like others, around here "bushwhack" involves any form of off trail straight line travel to a cache and is not dependent on the presence of any actual bushes.

Edited June 30, 2014 by DanOCan

[+L0ne.R]

I remembered a "What were they thinking" geocaching incident years ago. Did some googling and found it:

 

http://www.timesrepo...cost-geocachers

 

 

An expedition into geocaching Sunday ended for three Coshocton men ... being charged by New Philadelphia police with criminal trespassing. ....drove his Chevrolet Corsica onto a football practice field ... A passerby reported seeing the vehicle stuck in the mud behind the ballfields at 3:18 p.m. Norris said Sunday night the vehicle will remain there until a towing company and New Philadelphia parks and recreation officials figure out a way to remove it without causing further damage.

Edited June 30, 2014 by L0ne.R

[4wheelin_fool]

I remembered a "What were they thinking" geocaching incident years ago. Did some googling and found it:

 

http://www.timesrepo...cost-geocachers

 

 

An expedition into geocaching Sunday ended for three Coshocton men ... being charged by New Philadelphia police with criminal trespassing. ....drove his Chevrolet Corsica onto a football practice field ... A passerby reported seeing the vehicle stuck in the mud behind the ballfields at 3:18 p.m. Norris said Sunday night the vehicle will remain there until a towing company and New Philadelphia parks and recreation officials figure out a way to remove it without causing further damage.

 

That's the same thread that I linked to in post #20.

Edited July 1, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

[+L0ne.R]

I remembered a "What were they thinking" geocaching incident years ago. Did some googling and found it:

 

http://www.timesrepo...cost-geocachers

 

 

An expedition into geocaching Sunday ended for three Coshocton men ... being charged by New Philadelphia police with criminal trespassing. ....drove his Chevrolet Corsica onto a football practice field ... A passerby reported seeing the vehicle stuck in the mud behind the ballfields at 3:18 p.m. Norris said Sunday night the vehicle will remain there until a towing company and New Philadelphia parks and recreation officials figure out a way to remove it without causing further damage.

 

That's the same thread that I linked to in post #20.

 

Oh sorry....missed your reference. My bad.

[BFG99]

As is often the case with situations like this, I see several potential issues:

 

(1) Not knowing ahead of time exactly where the cache was, the newbie might have thought it was on the farmer's ground and thus the farmer had okayed both its placement, and use of the field path. It's easy to see the flaw in that logic now, but at the time it may have seemed reasonable.

(2) I don't believe medoug did anything wrong by placing the cache where he did, which happened to be in close proximity to the farmer's field path. But a note in the cache's description to stay out of the field would have been both helpful and warranted.

(3) In my judgment, and in my judgment alone, the follow-up email to the cacher was unhelpful. I think a "friendly" warning along the lines of "please don't cross private property without permission when caching in the future", coupled with a promise to amend the cache's description, would have been more effective.

(4) As others noted, it might not have been clear that that was a private drive. I used to live in rural Missouri, and MANY of the field paths in that part of the world are completely unmarked - people in the area just know "that's the Goetting's field path, you shouldn't drive there". So if it wasn't clearly marked, at least a small amount of the blame belongs on the farmer.

(5) At no point has anyone actually approached the farmer about this. Their reaction might be so strong it warrants moving the cache, or they might be perfectly fine with cachers accessing their field. Or anywhere in between. In my opinion, the farmer only needs to be involved if this reoccurs.

[+Mudfrog]

As is often the case with situations like this, I see several potential issues:

 

(1) Not knowing ahead of time exactly where the cache was, the newbie might have thought it was on the farmer's ground and thus the farmer had okayed both its placement, and use of the field path. It's easy to see the flaw in that logic now, but at the time it may have seemed reasonable.

(2) I don't believe medoug did anything wrong by placing the cache where he did, which happened to be in close proximity to the farmer's field path. But a note in the cache's description to stay out of the field would have been both helpful and warranted.

(3) In my judgment, and in my judgment alone, the follow-up email to the cacher was unhelpful. I think a "friendly" warning along the lines of "please don't cross private property without permission when caching in the future", coupled with a promise to amend the cache's description, would have been more effective.

(4) As others noted, it might not have been clear that that was a private drive. I used to live in rural Missouri, and MANY of the field paths in that part of the world are completely unmarked - people in the area just know "that's the Goetting's field path, you shouldn't drive there". So if it wasn't clearly marked, at least a small amount of the blame belongs on the farmer.

(5) At no point has anyone actually approached the farmer about this. Their reaction might be so strong it warrants moving the cache, or they might be perfectly fine with cachers accessing their field. Or anywhere in between. In my opinion, the farmer only needs to be involved if this reoccurs.

 

Actually, it would probably be a good idea for the cache owner to let the farmer know that a cache is placed near his property. That would give the farmer an idea of what was going on if he passed by and saw a vehicle stopped.

[medoug]

Here's a Google satellite view of the area in question. The balloon is the cache location. There is a wide paved bicycle path on the side of the road that doubles as shoulder for parking which is less than 100 feet from the cache. That is why I didn't deem it necessary to give parking coordinate. You can see the framer's field entrance to the west. It is approximately 1000 feet away from the cache. Between that and the fact that it is obviously not a public or normal private drive, you can also understand why we (the farmer and I) never would have imagined a geocacher trying to use it to access the cache.

 

 

Here is a Google steer view of the area showing the field entrance used and the location of the cache relative to it.

 

Edited July 5, 2014 by medoug

[medoug]

(4) As others noted, it might not have been clear that that was a private drive. I used to live in rural Missouri, and MANY of the field paths in that part of the world are completely unmarked - people in the area just know "that's the Goetting's field path, you shouldn't drive there". So if it wasn't clearly marked, at least a small amount of the blame belongs on the farmer.

(5) At no point has anyone actually approached the farmer about this. Their reaction might be so strong it warrants moving the cache, or they might be perfectly fine with cachers accessing their field. Or anywhere in between. In my opinion, the farmer only needs to be involved if this reoccurs.

 

This is Iowa. The cache finder was from Illinois. (I used to live in Illinois.) In either state there is lots of farmland and it is common knowledge that there are several of this type of equipment access driveways between the main road and the Farmer's field and that they are private property and are not to be entered (with or without "No Trespassing", "Private Property", "Keep out" signs.). Also, gates and fences are becoming a quite uncommon sight as much of this land is crop-only land and there is no need for them as the fields are never pastures with livestock.

 

The farmer is aware of the cache. He is the one who placed the attraction on top of the bluff. It is a maniquin of an indian women waving to passer-Byers. He enjoys the attention that this roadside statue attracts and encourages visitors and photographs. It had never occurred to either of us that anyone would attempt to access the cache from his field driveway due to the distance away that it is, the generally understanding of these types of driveways as not being public access, and the close proximity of the cache to the roadway with available wide-shoulder parking.

 

BTW... The farmer is sensitive to people on his property. He won't even let snowmobiles travel his field in the wintertime. They must stay in the ditch between his field and the road. As mentioned, the cache placement is in the ditch area.

[medoug]

 

The road is not gated or signed and since many caches are hidden on private property I likely wouldn't think twice about driving up there to see if it takes me closer to the cache instead of parking on the main road.

 

From the looks of the overhead view, there is a well-established set of dirt tracks running along the perimeter of the field which would be perfect for driving on without disturbing any crops. Yes, there still could be the

issue of creating ruts but not knowing what they were driving, I'd venture that unless it was a big 4x4 they would have gotten stuck so they likely weren't doing much damage.

 

Caches on private property or allowing permission to travel private property to access almost always state so in the cache description.

 

The cacher replied back that they followed the path along the boarder of the field (and not over the crops in the field) and that the surface was fairly hard-packed so he left no ruts (thank goodness). It appears that he drives a 4-wheel drive Subaru cross-over type vehicle. I often find that people who have off-road style vehicles so seldom get a chance to utilize their vehicle's full capabilities that they sometime push the limits of where they are allowed to drive.

[medoug]

It's never OK to leave the roadway with a vehicle when geocaching.

 

Uhhh..if that were a true story my find count would be decreased by 1000.

 

And "bushwhack" is used for any off trail walking, at least in my area, not exclusively for off trail walking that actually involves whacking bushes.

 

Not a good idea to leave the roadway? HUH?? I guess my 4X4 is useless then.... Just sayin....

In my area - bushwhacking means to WALK thru an area that isn't a trail and walking thru bushy areas (overgrowth, thorns, greenery, etc).

 

I'm glad that you live in areas where public land is available for off-roading with vehicles. Unfortunately, that is an extreme rarity in Iowa, Wisconsin, and Illinois (states surrounding this cache). I did once cache with me dual-purpose motorcycle on a trail designed and marked for ATV and motocross-type bikes, but beyond these few such specifically-designated spots, it is all either private farm/woodlands or public hiking-only trails. "Never OK" was probably a bit of an overgeneralization on my part.

 

I guess the point I was trying to make regarding "bushwhacking" is that the hiding spot (but not the container) is visible from the roadway with no brambles or other difficulties with walking almost straight to it from the road.

Edited July 5, 2014 by medoug

[medoug]

Nobody can tell exactly how bad it was without being there, but some people just dont think. It reminds me of this thread of a few people who drove onto a baseball field, got stuck, and damaged 20 feet of it.

 

I remembered a "What were they thinking" geocaching incident years ago. Did some googling and found it:

 

http://www.timesrepo...cost-geocachers

 

 

An expedition into geocaching Sunday ended for three Coshocton men ... being charged by New Philadelphia police with criminal trespassing. ....drove his Chevrolet Corsica onto a football practice field ... A passerby reported seeing the vehicle stuck in the mud behind the ballfields at 3:18 p.m. Norris said Sunday night the vehicle will remain there until a towing company and New Philadelphia parks and recreation officials figure out a way to remove it without causing further damage.

 

As I mentioned above, the cacher reported back to me that he did not cause any real damage, but only a few parameters different could have resulted in a situation quite similar to the example that you referenced. I'm sure if that had happened, the farmer would not be very understanding and I would need to archive this very unique cache.

Edited July 5, 2014 by medoug

[medoug]

Writing them and telling them you’re concerned about what they did and explaining to them that they were on private property and that they should not do that is okay. Some people aren’t very mindful of other people’s property. Maybe you were a little harsh, but hopefully it left an impression so they don’t trespass again.

 

Being both a cache hider and a cache placer I can see both sides. Hopefully both finder and hider will work to make this game fun and enjoyable for all involved -the hider, the finder, the land owner and his neighbors).

 

That's what the goal of my message to the cacher was. BTW... They are a seasoned cached with several years and several thousand finds in geocaching. It makes me wonder how many times in the past that they did similar actions thinking that it was acceptable behavior (cringe).

[+Pork King]

 

This is Iowa. The cache finder was from Illinois. (I used to live in Illinois.) In either state there is lots of farmland and it is common knowledge that there are several of this type of equipment access driveways between the main road and the Farmer's field and that they are private property and are not to be entered (with or without "No Trespassing", "Private Property", "Keep out" signs.). ...

 

Common knowledge isn't that common...

 

Cachers of all experience levels and mentalities can do things they aren't supposed to. The best solution would be to note on the cache page that cachers should park along the road and DO NOT use the field road to get to the cache.

 

Even if this instruction is highlighted, posted in 100pt font, and surrounded by flashing .gif arrows, there will still be a set of cachers that will pull into the field road.

[+dprovan]

That's what the goal of my message to the cacher was. BTW... They are a seasoned cached with several years and several thousand finds in geocaching. It makes me wonder how many times in the past that they did similar actions thinking that it was acceptable behavior (cringe).

What you should be wondering is what made them do it for your cache and discuss it with them so you can make sure no one else makes the same mistake. No matter how convinced you are that the problem was lapse in judgement on their part, you should take responsibility for what happened just in case it was something you did. Certainly there's no need to insult them by saying they give geocaching a bad name. That will never produce better results that discussing the mistake with them as adults.

[+J Grouchy]

That's what the goal of my message to the cacher was. BTW... They are a seasoned cached with several years and several thousand finds in geocaching. It makes me wonder how many times in the past that they did similar actions thinking that it was acceptable behavior (cringe).

What you should be wondering is what made them do it for your cache and discuss it with them so you can make sure no one else makes the same mistake. No matter how convinced you are that the problem was lapse in judgement on their part, you should take responsibility for what happened just in case it was something you did. Certainly there's no need to insult them by saying they give geocaching a bad name. That will never produce better results that discussing the mistake with them as adults.

 

Yeah...I just keep going back to the email and how out of line it was. There were probably a dozen better ways of making the same points while not sounding rude or overly critical or judgmental.

[+JesandTodd]

That's what the goal of my message to the cacher was. BTW... They are a seasoned cached with several years and several thousand finds in geocaching. It makes me wonder how many times in the past that they did similar actions thinking that it was acceptable behavior (cringe).

What you should be wondering is what made them do it for your cache and discuss it with them so you can make sure no one else makes the same mistake. No matter how convinced you are that the problem was lapse in judgement on their part, you should take responsibility for what happened just in case it was something you did. Certainly there's no need to insult them by saying they give geocaching a bad name. That will never produce better results that discussing the mistake with them as adults.

 

Yeah...I just keep going back to the email and how out of line it was. There were probably a dozen better ways of making the same points while not sounding rude or overly critical or judgmental.

 

^^ this

[+Mudfrog]

I guess the point I was trying to make regarding "bushwhacking" is that the hiding spot (but not the container) is visible from the roadway with no brambles or other difficulties with walking almost straight to it from the road.

 

Unless you have stated this on the cache page, how am i supposed to know? Your coordinates could be off a tad and then when i come along, my gpsr may point me even further away. If my gpsr pointed towards the top of the hill, then wouldn't it be a good indicator that the cache might be up there? Perhaps if i lived in Iowa, i might know that i should never ever drive up an unmarked road. Since i don't, i might or might not drive up that road/driveway.

 

You do realize there is a chance that people from out of state, who don't know the law of the land, may go looking for your cache, right? Seems like it would save some angst if you would just go ahead and state on the page that the cache is not up there...

Edited July 7, 2014 by Mudfrog

[+Rainbow Spirit]

If as others have stated that the hint is 'hidden on the plateau' then that is the problem. I would assume it was up top if I read that hint too. Something along the lines of 'low not high' would be a better hint.

[ZeekLTK]

(3) In my judgment, and in my judgment alone, the follow-up email to the cacher was unhelpful. I think a "friendly" warning along the lines of "please don't cross private property without permission when caching in the future", coupled with a promise to amend the cache's description, would have been more effective.

 

Unprovoked "nasty" emails from a cache owner to a log are usually never helpful.

 

I came across a micro in which the log sheet was so full that I basically couldn't sign it. Just had to scribble my initials partially over someone else's signature (since it was a cache several hours from where I live, I couldn't just wait and come back another time) in order to get it on there.

 

When I got home to log it, I noticed that the last 2-3 logs had also mentioned that the log was full. Since several weeks had passed since the first person had noted that, I logged a "needs maintenance" to get the owner's attention.

 

Rather than going to replace the log, he sent me a nasty email basically saying that if I was so concerned about it, I should replace it myself. lol

 

And what's the big deal? You put a cache out, then you're mad that you have to maintain it? lol

Edited July 7, 2014 by ZeekLTK

[+The A-Team]

I can't fault the finder at all. With the given hint, and the possibility that my GPS might show GZ a bit away from the intended spot, I might have done the same as them. Not being from that region, I'd see an unsigned dirt road heading to where the hint seems to indicate, so I might drive on up there (it would also depend on other factors, including my type of vehicle, quality of the dirt road, etc.).

 

Personally, the biggest problem I see with the situation in question is with the cache owner (sorry, medoug). You've essentially determined that there can't possibly be any problems with your cache and that any adverse actions by finders are completely their fault. IMHO, that's the wrong view to take. As someone else suggested, you should go on the assumption that something you've done (or haven't done) has led the finder to do what they did. Use it as an opportunity to fine-tune your cache to make it more foolproof for future finders. Change the hint so it doesn't point them up onto the hill. Tell finders that they should park on the side of the road. Double-check your coordinates to make sure they aren't actually pointing up top. Attacking a finder when they may not have knowingly done anything wrong is out of line. Assume it's your fault, make changes based on this, and move on.

[medoug]

Thank you everyone for the helpful constructive criticism. I have now update the cache listing with parking coordinate and the following note:

 

"You should park on the shoulder of the main road near the parking coordinates to access this cache. (It will result in the shortest walk to the cache.) Please DO NOT enter or block any farm field driveways."

 

I've also changed the wording of the clue from "on the plateau" to "on the step". The cache is located on a step in the rock to help protect it from rushing water which will sometimes flow through the road ditch.

 

I have also appologized to the cache finder for the rude nature of my note. Hopefully these changes will help avoid a similar situation in the future (assuming the description is actually read).

 

Unfortunately, my experience is that many cachers do not read the descriptions. I spoke with a fellow cacher who had found this hide and he said that he was totally unaware of the statue "watching him" from the top of the bluff (which was the primary point for hiding the cache in this location). Obviously, he is one to not read descriptions as the "watcher" is explained in the cache description. Now he needs to revisit (or drive by) the cache to finally see her.

 

Thanks again,

medoug.

Edited July 8, 2014 by medoug

[+Paganmen]

Why not consider that because of weather, cloud cover or a person's particular GPS device that they were taken away from the correct GZ location? I use both my iPhone and a Garmin GPS at the same time while searching for a cache and both can be way off from each other.

 

And what if the CO's coordinates are not spot on! I've already been told that my coordinates for a new cache I've placed were way off even though I took 25 readings of the position. When I go back and check on a different day, sure enough, the coordinates are totally different. It all depends if you are receiving enough satellites to properly triangulate your position.

 

I have often found many caches that were not right at GZ according to my GPS but made the find by using the clue or information in the posts.

 

You can also post waypoints or parking location coordinates which would help.