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I think it's a bit odd to worry about how other people play the game. Whether another cacher cares about numbers or not has absolutely no effect on my caching experience. I think one thing that makes geocaching great is how open it is. You can play for the numbers or you can play for the experience (or anything else), no one is going to force you one way or the other. I find it very strange when people sacrifice their fun geocaching in order to worry about something as irrelevant as how others play the game.huh.gif

 

Just my $0.02

 

 

That's one more post for me! Thanks so much for starting this topic. bad_boy_animated.gif

Edited by ADKer
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To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

 

Sounds like someone is jealous of someone elses find count.

 

Not quite. Are we supposed to be? :rolleyes:

 

See the last sentence in post #5 for a detailed description of what I think about that.

 

 

You'll have to do better than that if you want to win.

 

Starting a thread like this one about find counts suggests you do care but somehow feel inferior but that's just the amateur psychologist in me.

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To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

 

Sounds like someone is jealous of someone elses find count.

 

Not quite. Are we supposed to be? :rolleyes:

 

See the last sentence in post #5 for a detailed description of what I think about that.

 

 

You'll have to do better than that if you want to win.

 

Starting a thread like this one about find counts suggests you do care but somehow feel inferior but that's just the amateur psychologist in me.

 

 

No, that's even close. I started this thread in the hopes that you might learn something about the importance of find counts.

 

 

But now based on your response, the obvious question is -

 

Does your find count make you feel superior?

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To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

 

Sounds like someone is jealous of someone elses find count.

 

Not quite. Are we supposed to be? :rolleyes:

 

See the last sentence in post #5 for a detailed description of what I think about that.

 

 

You'll have to do better than that if you want to win.

 

Starting a thread like this one about find counts suggests you do care but somehow feel inferior but that's just the amateur psychologist in me.

 

 

No, that's even close. I started this thread in the hopes that you might learn something about the importance of find counts.

 

 

But now based on your response, the obvious question is -

 

Does your find count make you feel superior?

 

Firstly, this is not the first time I have done my contest and it has nothing to do about find counts, it's like the guess the jellybeans in the jar.

 

Secondly, I have never pretended that find count does not matter, it does. There are very few people I'd believe if they told me it doesn't, see my signature.

 

Thirdly, I use my find count and a lot of other stats to compete with my friends, for example we just took a trip to Potters Pond where two of us finished our jasmer, on the way we stopped at southern idahos oldest, the other month my friend was missing but I had and since I was driving I kept threatening to go to potters pond first. We also found some 60 FTFs, a new daily record but some were challenge caches and he qualified for 1 more than I so I got some ribbing.

 

Fourthly, I am no where near close to where I could even brag about my find count even if I wanted to.

 

Lastly, feeling superior or inferior due to your find count is ridiculous but what worries me is that you started a thread thinking somehow I feel superior which again makes me think you feel inferior since you are giving my find count so much attention.

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I could've won a PM just by guessing Roman!'s count number so it's too much work for me to write a complete essay for the same prize. It's too much work to count & compare numbers anyway. I'm too lazy for it. It's exhausting enough to find a geocache once in a while...

 

;)

Edited by Ben0w
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nonaeroterraqueous

 

A slight deviation from the OP.

 

The hobby is open to interpretation supporting a variety of interests, motivations and preferences that encompassess many cachers who are not all about WIGAS.

 

It hinders the single most interesting aspect of geocaching, the hobby of leading others to significant and interesting locations through geocache placement.
(emphasis mine)

That is a perspective but it is only one of many perspectives and motivations and frankly, is not "the single most interesting aspect of geocaching" for many.

 

The fact that some cachers chose to enjoy (and create) power trails fits within the hobby, and the fact that some cachers chose to enjoy (and create) point of interest caches also fits within the hobby as adjudcated by Groundspeak.

 

The alledged evils of power trails "has been discussed quite comprehensively" and no doubt they have changed the hobby. To the benifit or detriment of the hobby is a matter of perspective and opinion, regardless there must be room for all in the hobby.

 

The foolish argument that one person's interest in numbers is irrelevant to my disinterest in numbers is patently false.

With all due respect the argument that one person's perspective (interest or disinterest in numbers, motivations and prefereneces) takes precidence over another players perspective (interest or disinterest in numbers, motivations and prefereneces) is patently false.

 

It sounds trite but "cache and let cache". It may take a little more work to sort through the dross but there remain noumourous caches out there for everyone to enjoy whatever there perspective is ...

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It sounds trite but "cache and let cache". It may take a little more work to sort through the dross but there remain noumourous caches out there for everyone to enjoy whatever there perspective is ...

 

Not for long.

 

The fact that some cachers chose to enjoy (and create) power trails fits within the hobby, and the fact that some cachers chose to enjoy (and create) point of interest caches also fits within the hobby as adjudcated by Groundspeak.

 

The fact is that the two ways of playing do not work well together. It's easy to say "cache and let cache," but in practical terms it means nothing. POI caches do not interfere with power trails, because the trail can always be laid right on top of existing caches and assimilate them against their owners' wish. The POI cachers cannot pluck a wasted point of interest out of a power trail. If the trend continues, I'm just going to have to find a different way to try to find and share points of interest. I'm certainly not into this for the joy of finding soggy film canisters every tenth of a mile, and I question the sanity of those who think that the real joy of geocaching can be found in any of them.

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Firstly, this is not the first time I have done my contest and it has nothing to do about find counts, it's like the guess the jellybeans in the jar.

 

That's exactly correct. You essentially said, "Hey, look at me! Can anyone guess what my find count will be?"

 

Most of us focused on the "Can anyone guess...," (even those of us who passionately hate the find count game).

 

One of us (not naming any names) focused on the "Hey, look at me!" and thought that you were a bit narcissistic in trying to draw so much attention to yourself. Ah, but so much has been written about the people most irritated by the appearance of narcissism. Nothing irritates an inflamed ego like another ego.

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-Find counts do not matter and are essentially useless-

 

As soon as an geocaching account is made the counting of finds starts.

The very first find is often a very memorable moment, a find that either leads to starting an addictive hobby or a first find that also stops the counting, a so called last find although the cache will be found many more times by others.

 

The 10th find, depending on where you live and how close you are to a certain amount of geocaches, can be another memorable moment, the first two digit number!

I remember our 50th find as if I found it just a couple of hours ago, although it has been almost 6 years that I wrote my nickname on the paper of that (now archived) cache. Fifty is not a special number, but I remember it because of another counting aspect: our very first FTF.

 

Fifty finds seemed a lot back then and “going for the 100” seemed like a long term goal, but the addiction really kicked in and in that same month the magic number 100 was in the pocket. A special cache on a special day was chosen: our first night cache on Halloween.

 

After this only the hundreds became real milestones, special caches were chosen, often combined with a trip abroad, automatically making it memorable moments. And three years after starting this hobby, our 1000th find was a fact. Another memorable moment, but since then we really didn’t pay any attention to our amount of finds anymore. Of course the counter is prominent visible, so if a “special” number is coming up, it sometimes attracts my attention just in time to chose a bit more memorable cache than I otherwise might have chosen.

 

The question now is why do we pick a certain type of cache for a certain amount of finds?

Of course we hope every find is a memorable one, so it shouldn't matter if it is the 2999th or 3000th find. And it doesn't matter! As proven in the field, since our planned 3000th became our 2999th find. Planning can go wrong especially when you are abroad and have limited time. When you have to chose what is more important: that one extra find or a visit to something unique in that country, but also a place without a geocache. Suddenly the number of finds seems less important, even though a whole planning, a specific goal for this number was made before going out.

 

Finds counts do not matter if you want to have fun, you can perfectly enjoy geocaching without those numbers, they are useless from that point of view. But the numbers can help to set goals, to change you view on what is important, to make you pause and think “What do I really like to do, how should I spend my free time?”. And goals like going for 5000, 8000, or 15.000 finds aren't real goals, but creating memories that last are.

 

If find counts or other statistics are needed to rethink every now and then what you are doing, to have a short pause to reflect, to not just cache on an automatic pilot, but to create those special memories, they might be essentially useless, but at the same time can be very useful for a lot of cachers, especially those with a large number of finds.

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"Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" to me.

 

The key words here are “essentially” and “to me”

 

I use my numbers keep track of the caches I've found. I use that information in order to avoid doing the same cache a second time. I have no goals except to have fun. I started caching 3 years ago as a way to add additional enjoyment to camping and hiking trips. I have expanded upon my caching experience from there. I am not in a competition with anyone. I have seen people that have found far more caches in 1 day than I have in 3 years. I'm sure they had fun doing it otherwise they probably wouldn’t have done it. What someone may think of my numbers is irrelevant to me just as other cachers numbers are irrelevant to me. We participate in the activity differently and for different reasons.

 

Some cachers like to compete with each other. Some like to see how many they can do in a certain time frame. There are many goals attainable in Geocaching if one wants to achieve them. To them, find counts are essential.

 

Not understanding why people enjoy caching a certain way is understandable. Criticizing them because the game has evolved and their way doesn’t fit with with your made up definition of “proper” geocaching is rude.

 

There are only a few basic guidelines to this activity. But the way you participate in it is left up to you to decide. If find counts mater or don’t mater is totally up to you.

 

But I'm sure I'm wrong.

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irisisleuk

 

Great response.

 

I am going to cherry pick a few thoughts that (to us at least) are important.

 

  • The very first find is often a very memorable moment
     
  • I remember our 50th find as if I found it just a couple of hours ago, although it has been almost 6 years that I wrote my nickname on the paper of that (now archived) cache.
     
  • Of course we hope every find is a memorable one, so it shouldn't matter if it is the 2999th or 3000th find.
     
  • But the numbers can help to set goals, to change you view on what is important, to make you pause and think “What do I really like to do, how should I spend my free time?”

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Yeah, I'm going to give someone I never met $30 to draw attention to my find count to try and impress people that I do not know, not once, but twice.

 

Don't forget it would have been 3 times, but Keystone nixed one. Saved you 30 bucks, he did. :ph34r:

 

Ha, good memory.

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But now based on your response, the obvious question is -

 

Does your find count make you feel superior?

 

Oh yes, as I wrote in my "essay" if my find count is higher than yours then I'm Better Than You thanks to my higher find count. If your find count is higher than mine then I'm Better Than You because I'm not worried about such things. Win-win situation. What's not to like.

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But I'm sure I'm wrong.

Hey, let's be wrong together.

 

I can just imagine walking up to a geocacher at an event, stabbing my finger at his chest, and yelling at him "Your find counts do not matter. It is essentially useless". I'm sure that will go down really well :) That's not what 4wheelin_fool means, of course.

Edited by Chrysalides
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Points are useless and do not matter.

 

They are not Bitcoins, which can be used to purchase things I guess, although they also are "Virtual". Points do not allow you to purchase anything in the "GC Store" nor allow you to be a premium nor platinum member. You have to use your "Real cache - err cash" to purchase anything from GC.

 

Post points also are useless, except to say how many times that you have typed away (except in OT) because you thought someone cared what you thought, which they probably really did not.

 

No one else really cares how many times you spent your time/gas/money on finding yet another GC thingy, left out there somewhere by someone who might have given a thought as to how/why/where they placed it. Only the person who spends his time and money cares either way.

 

The real question is, Why would anyone want to hide a cache nowdays? I know we have lost our interest in placing any more.

 

There, I have been very serious and stern, which is NOT like me at all.

 

Shirley~

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Firstly, this is not the first time I have done my contest and it has nothing to do about find counts, it's like the guess the jellybeans in the jar.

 

Secondly, I have never pretended that find count does not matter, it does. There are very few people I'd believe if they told me it doesn't, see my signature.

 

Thirdly, I use my find count and a lot of other stats to compete with my friends, for example we just took a trip to Potters Pond where two of us finished our jasmer, on the way we stopped at southern idahos oldest, the other month my friend was missing but I had and since I was driving I kept threatening to go to potters pond first. We also found some 60 FTFs, a new daily record but some were challenge caches and he qualified for 1 more than I so I got some ribbing.

 

Fourthly, I am no where near close to where I could even brag about my find count even if I wanted to.

 

Lastly, feeling superior or inferior due to your find count is ridiculous but what worries me is that you started a thread thinking somehow I feel superior which again makes me think you feel inferior since you are giving my find count so much attention.

 

Roman!, I opened this thread to have a little fun with the importance of find counts. There is nothing to indicate any type of negativity, implied or otherwise. You stated in another thread that if logging couch potato lab caches became popular, then find counts would be essentially useless. The fact is that they are already useless with the advent of powertrails. Nobody is gaining any type of experience by repetitiously finding the same container over and over thousands of times. In many cases they are not even finding all of the containers, as if a team of 10 splits up, each person could only find 100 for every 1000 they logged. Then there is the couch potato logging. Log 1000 caches from your couch and someone will eventually catch on. Not on a powertrail. Back date it 3 months or so and nobody notices.

 

It's rather interesting that you immediately thought of inferiority and jealousy in a thread that was supposed to be a spoof. Ask a psychologist and they might say that perhaps you believe your find count is supposed to make people jealous, or makes you feel superior. I'm wondering how tall you are, but you don't have to answer that.

 

you are giving my find count so much attention

 

You are the only one doing that.

 

Recently I've noticed there has been a spate of logs from people who are wielding their find count around to intimidate others. I noticed this obnoxiousness in another thread about throwdowns in which a group placed a film can in place of a regular. When the CO objected, they declared that they had 8,000 finds, and he only had a few, so he didn't know what was appropriate.

 

Then there are the DNFers that declare that they have X amount of finds, so the cache must be missing. Yet the cache turns up. How? The high finders have thousands of copy and paste logs, and spend only 5 minutes looking for each. Nobody gets high numbers from spending too much time at any one location, do they? It does seem like some high finders feel superior somehow. You may have something there, Roman!

 

Then there are the caches hidden only to boost finds. A new person joins and loses interest going from parking lot to parking lot. Plus, they have plenty of work to do if they want to "catch up" with the others. I tried the QR code game and lost interest quickly because they were all in parking lots. I suppose there are plenty new geocachers that feel the same way. One thing that is consistent with this game is that most will lose interest. The vast majority of the 9,000 people signing up just today will not bother logging in after a year or so. Most will hide caches and abandon them. Why is that? The numbers are boring. Getting plenty of numbers means that you will find plenty of uninteresting hides. The only thing a high find count indicates is the amount of free time you have and how obsessive you are about the game.

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And the winner is...

 

1962penny for post #26.

 

Whimseyguy won the popular vote for the comment about the squirrels left nut, but has declined a gift due to being paid up for several years already as a double platinum member. MKFamily made a good point about how find counts do have relative value, although it is rather limited.

 

Find counts are not useless, although with the advent of powertrails they have been sharply devalued.

 

What I find disturbing is an increase of people using their find count as an attempt to do something that they should not be doing. Whether it is leaving a throwdown, or justifying defacement, trespassing, or simply declaring that a cache is not there. Find counts very often have very little to do with any of these. If you announce your find count upon meeting someone, or think that everyone else is in awe of it, then thanks for the entertainment. :D

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What I find disturbing is an increase of people using their find count as an attempt to do something that they should not be doing. Whether it is leaving a throwdown, or justifying defacement, trespassing, or simply declaring that a cache is not there. Find counts very often have very little to do with any of these. If you announce your find count upon meeting someone, or think that everyone else is in awe of it, then thanks for the entertainment. :D

Of course you don't do that. You have to mention your position on the leaderboard as well :ph34r:

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To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

 

Sounds like someone is jealous of someone elses find count.

 

Not quite. Are we supposed to be? :rolleyes:

 

See the last sentence in post #5 for a detailed description of what I think about that.

 

 

You'll have to do better than that if you want to win.

 

Starting a thread like this one about find counts suggests you do care but somehow feel inferior but that's just the amateur psychologist in me.

 

 

No, that's even close. I started this thread in the hopes that you might learn something about the importance of find counts.

 

 

But now based on your response, the obvious question is -

 

Does your find count make you feel superior?

 

So, you spent $30 to try and teach me a lesson, I'm flattered.

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