Win a free premium membership

6.1k · June 28, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

7.7k · June 28, 2014

I'm not participating unless you have a stats board, with score, word count, and typo count.

1.2k · June 28, 2014

Here's mine:

Find counts do not matter and are essentially useless.

7.7k · June 28, 2014

Here's mine:

Find counts do not matter and are essentially useless.

No no no... it should be :

an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"

You left out "an essay about how". Can't you follow directions? :lol:

6.5k · June 28, 2014

My find count matters to me. It is a record of how many times I have had FUN finding another cache, often with geopals.

I do not care what you think about my find count, nor do I give a flying squirrel's left peanut about your find count.

7.7k · June 28, 2014

My find count matters to me. It is a record of how many times I have had FUN finding another cache, often with geopals.

I do not care what you think about my find count, nor do I give a flying squirrel's left peanut about your find count.

This.

I don't know why some are so obsessed about controlling how I feel about things they don't care about.

1.2k · June 28, 2014

Find counts do not matter to me. Statistics are completely useless to me. I'm only a basic member, anyway, so I can't even see them. I don't even know what a D/T grid is, unless it's something that comes from drinking too much. Please let me win this contest so that I can change my mind and give a rat's posterior alimentary orifice for a finder's count.

3.7k · June 28, 2014

Am I allowed to lie?

June 28, 2014

Chrysalides-"I don't know why some are so obsessed about controlling how I feel about things they don't care about."

+1

7.4k · June 28, 2014

Is there a particular style guide I should refer to when I'm formatting citations?

15.3k · June 28, 2014

I fondly recall a group geocaching trip, where a couple dozen of us found a night cache together to celebrate the 6000th find of a well-known local geocacher. That milestone represented years of geocaching, and many contributions to the local geocaching community.

A few weeks later, he returned from the Nevada desert with more than 7000 finds. That milestone seemed much less significant.

6.1k · June 28, 2014

My find count matters to me. It is a record of how many times I have had FUN finding another cache, often with geopals.

I do not care what you think about my find count, nor do I give a flying squirrel's left peanut about your find count.

Ok, we have a start here.

6.1k · June 28, 2014

I'm not participating unless you have a stats board, with score, word count, and typo count.

No.

4.1k · June 28, 2014

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless, just as forum post counts do not matter and are essentially useless. If either were to matter to me, I would not post in Off Topic at all. Of course that is where I hide, post and play the most. Every so often I will let others, in a few other forums on GC know that I still exist.

So - - Hi there, I still exist and post but, do not care a whit about my find, hide nor post counts! So there. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!

(Ducking and going back to hide in Off Topic now.)

Shirley~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

June 28, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"...

Does my essay have to agree with the premise of the question in order to have a chance to win?

6.1k · June 28, 2014

I don't know why some are so obsessed about controlling how I feel about things they don't care about.

There is no mind control here. If you feel that find counts do matter, then that's your opinion, but it has nothing to do with this.

My opinion is that 5000 powertrail finds are not any type of indication of any type of skill, and do not equal 5000 mountaintop caches, 5000 rapelling caches or simply any 5000 other type of finds. I think it's odd that there is somewhat of an increasing emphasis on impressing others. Some people do it for fun, but it seems a large percentage feel a need to be recognized.

6.1k · June 28, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"...

Does my essay have to agree with the premise of the question in order to have a chance to win?

Of course. If you feel that find counts are important to you then this is not your thread. Sorry.

6.1k · June 28, 2014

Is there a particular style guide I should refer to when I'm formatting citations?

No.

6.1k · June 28, 2014

Am I allowed to lie?

Yes, but you should not admit it.

June 28, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"...

Does my essay have to agree with the premise of the question in order to have a chance to win?

Of course. If you feel that find counts are important to you then this is not your thread. Sorry.

Well, I think if I have a personal best of 14 finds in a day, or 24 finds in a month, and I want to set out to break that and set a new personal best, that kind of find count can be a good thing. But if 'finds count' refers to a quest to go grab 1,000 quick finds all 528' from each other to run up numbers as high as possible, then no, I'm opposed to them.

6.1k · June 28, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"...

Does my essay have to agree with the premise of the question in order to have a chance to win?

Of course. If you feel that find counts are important to you then this is not your thread. Sorry.

Well, I think if I have a personal best of 14 finds in a day, or 24 finds in a month, and I want to set out to break that and set a new personal best, that kind of find count can be a good thing. But if 'finds count' refers to a quest to go grab 1,000 quick finds all 528' from each other to run up numbers as high as possible, then no, I'm opposed to them.

The motivation to achieve more could be tabulated by counts, but its difficult to place similar values on similar counts, and it doesn't necessarily mean you are doing more.

3.3k · June 28, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

Find counts are fun to watch, they give you a sense of achievement when you overtake someone else. It's like when you're out cycling and overtake another rider, you get that good feeling that I'm Better Than You. Context is irrelevant here, the fact I'm on a sleek road bike and the other cyclist is a granny with a basket full of shopping on her handlebars doesn't matter, and neither does the fact the other cacher I overtook was six months into a forced break due to being run over by a bus - what matters is the timeless principle that I'm Better Than You.

But now, having mostly lost interest in finding lots of soggy film pots behind posts just to prove I'm Better Than You, this year my find count is an average of one cache every two months. So now other people are finding more than I am I agree entirely that find counts do not matter. When I was ahead it didn't matter than you weren't racing, but now you're ahead I want it to be very clearly understood that find counts do not matter, and I am not racing. So whereas before I honoured the principle that I'm Better Than You by having a higher find count, now I claim I'm Better Than You by having transcended such pointless matters.

For the record, I'm not bothered one way or the other about the prize, I just had a few minutes to while away and thought I'd write a rant

Edited June 28, 2014 by team tisri

1.2k · June 28, 2014

I think it's odd that there is somewhat of an increasing emphasis on impressing others. Some people do it for fun, but it seems a large percentage feel a need to be recognized.

That's because it really is about the numbers...or, the number. That would be the number of billions of people on Earth, and what makes me significant. Some people strive to collect the most dollars. Some strive to collect the most Elvis memorabilia. Others strive to collect the most "found" points.

Yeah, you're right. It is odd. I don't know how impressed I'm expected to be, but I'm sure I'm not living up to that expectation. I cared about numbers until I reached a thousand finds. I only wanted to establish that I was no longer a newbie cacher, and that's all.

2.1k · June 28, 2014

"Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"

Find counts don't matter without context and statistics, they can be an entirely useless way to value yourself or to judge others without that context. It is important to notice that the D/T grid can be used to see if the finds of a cacher are quality or quantity. The finds over time can also be of use, giving an idea as to if the cacher has hit up a power trail to end up with such a large number of finds in such a short amount of time.

Of course you could just use your finds for your own personal count and look at the stats to please yourself.

Edit to add: I don't want the PM, give it to someone else.

Edited June 28, 2014 by MooseJawSpruce

13.7k · June 28, 2014

"Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"

Find counts mean something only to the one counting.

There isn't a rating on cache types.

A thousand simple 1.5/1.5 trail finds count the same, yet are not equivalent to a thousand requiring technical knowledge or skill (or the brain of Einstein to solve a tough puzzle).

- It's simply a thousand finds, whatever you find.

At a popular, regularly scheduled event, where it's the norm to go in a group for a cache afterwards, we were the only ones who didn't claim a smiley on a hide that wasn't even there (and made it to the "Found It/Didn't" thread afterwards).

With the the second similar experience, we stopped attending.

After personally witnessing how many come by those numbers, they mean little.

Maybe this numbers thing depends on whether you believe geocaching to be a hobby or a game.

Games often require totals or points to accrue and there's usually a winner.

Competing to be a winner isn't a bad thing and is expected in sports and games.

- But what are you winning here exactly?

Not competing, please give the membership to a basic member.

June 28, 2014

"why find counts don't matter"

As my motto is "quality over quantity", it's pretty self explanatory that the number of finds doesn't matter to me. I have been caching for two years and have 300 finds. A lot of people do that in a day! I'm nowhere close to "the top," but I will continue to cache. I love caching the way I do it, and will continue. I don't cache every day, I don't cache every month, and I really don't like finding peoples garbage inside of a light post. I will take the time to hike a full day just to one cache if I think I looks like fun. Power trails, stopping every 528' doesnt seem like fun. I like to consider my find logs a little journal of my adventures, so I take time to write legitimate logs. How much can you write when you find 800 caches in one day?

Lastly, I have great memories of (almost[]) all the caches I have found, I do not care if I have been caching for 10 years but my "find count" looks to everyone else like I'm a "newbie". (just an example. As stated earlier, I have only been caching for two years)

Anyways, just my bit on the subject and entry for the prize[]

(I currently am using a 30 day premium membership trial that came with my GPS unit that I activated on June 7. I love the features, it unlocked a lot of new aspects of the game)

-1962penny

Edited June 28, 2014 by 1962penny

5.2k · June 28, 2014

I don't care what else is written. I'm voting for the squirrel's left peanut.

If others want to expound on that, you'll get my vote.

1.2k · June 28, 2014

Edited June 28, 2014 by nonaeroterraqueous

7.7k · June 28, 2014

It does not matter to me if find counts matter to some people or not. And in one particular case, it is worth a free premium membership. I vote for the squirrel's neglected right peanut.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Chrysalides

June 30, 2014

If only I could get my finds to equal my DNFs; if my inked logs that did not qualify for online challenge logging equal my NM notes; if my FTFs would form a perfect half star; if the number of return visits it took to find a cache would equal the number of bus transfers to get there; I might aspire to be a balanced cacher. It's not about the find numbers, it's about the stats.

I'll vote for the squirrel's tail/tale or whichever poster has the fewest finds divided by months/days since registering.

June 30, 2014

Well, I'm averaging about 0.1 successful finds per day since registering, so I might have a chance in that second category. But I do have to admit, the squirrel's cute.

Why don't cache counts matter? It's not a contest, that's why. I'd be worried about someone who's playing just to up their count...and whether they're actually having fun.

EDIT: BTW, how can we be sure the squirrel only has two peanuts?

Edited June 30, 2014 by BFG99

14k · June 30, 2014

Find counts don't matter.

FInd counts don't matter simply because there isn't a single agreed upon definition of what constitutes a find.

Some people think that driving a vehicle down a road while someone else (even if they're not in the same vehicle) jumps out, grabs a container that is in plain site, then tosses another container at the same location is a find.

Some people think that watching someone else climb a tree to grab a container that is dropped to the ground, signed, and thrown back up into the person in a tree is a find.

Some people think that "hiding" a container at a location where they assume another container was hidden is a find.

Some people think that finding a hidden container, signing the physical log sheet, then replacing the container are all necessary to be considered a find.

2.8k · June 30, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

Sounds like someone is jealous of someone elses find count.

6.1k · June 30, 2014

To get it, write an essay about how "Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless" , and I'll pick one winner by July 1st, 5 PM Groundspeak time, and ill send it as a gift. Please post your essay, or feel free to post your approval of anyone else's. I was thinking initially 200 words, but hey, the numbers don't really matter..

Sounds like someone is jealous of someone elses find count.

Not quite. Are we supposed to be? :rolleyes:

See the last sentence in post #5 for a detailed description of what I think about that.

You'll have to do better than that if you want to win.

Edited June 30, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

6.1k · June 30, 2014

I've decided to extend the deadline to Thursday July 3, noon EST.

Let's see some more essays!

1.2k · June 30, 2014

Find counts do not matter. Yada, yada, yada, world peace, yada, yada. I win because I am an entitled cacher.

6.1k · June 30, 2014

Find counts do not matter. Yada, yada, yada, world peace, yada, yada. I win because I am an entitled cacher.

Sorry that doesn't cut it.

This is an opportunity for someone to receive a premium membership who perhaps cannot afford it, and Id appreciate it if you were a bit more serious. If you don't have anything to say, then saying something anyhow is not very productive.

1.2k · June 30, 2014

Find counts do not matter. Yada, yada, yada, world peace, yada, yada. I win because I am an entitled cacher.

Sorry that doesn't cut it.

This is an opportunity for someone to receive a premium membership who perhaps cannot afford it, and Id appreciate it if you were a bit more serious. If you don't have anything to say, then saying something anyhow is not very productive.

And I suppose the squirrel's left peanut was a serious entry. Cheezits, take a chill pill.

6.1k · June 30, 2014

Find counts do not matter. Yada, yada, yada, world peace, yada, yada. I win because I am an entitled cacher.

Sorry that doesn't cut it.

This is an opportunity for someone to receive a premium membership who perhaps cannot afford it, and Id appreciate it if you were a bit more serious. If you don't have anything to say, then saying something anyhow is not very productive.

And I suppose the squirrel's left peanut was a serious entry. Cheezits, take a chill pill.

By contrast it did have useful content, as well as being a bit more entertaining. I don't know why you posted that, but I am only trying to encourage higher quality entries.

Edited July 1, 2014 by 4wheelin_fool

June 30, 2014

"Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"

…does not hold up to scrutiny even for cachers that espouse and agree with that sentiment.

"As an activity, geocaching was more than just the sum of the individual caching experiences. For many of the participants, there was a “collecting” ethos that was a significant part of the experience. The geocaching web site keeps a record of all the different caches a particular cacher or caching team have done. Their “collection” of cache finds as a whole was a demonstrable record of what they have achieved."

This is the crux of understanding that oft disparaged WIGAS syndrome. Whether you subscribe to the “collecting ethos” or not and agree with the premise of the essay title or not, cachers place “relative values” and context to these “demonstrable records” even if that relative value is zero.

For example a DNF log by a cacher with 10 finds will be interpreted differently than a DNF log from a cacher with 1000 finds. Cachers assign a “relative value” to those 1010 cache experiences and make assessments, extrapolations, generalizations, and determinations from them.

Collectors place relative emphasis on many of the “demonstrable records”, often valuing the relative quality of their finds at the cost of quantity, the “purity” of their stats (find logs equal caches found), caches logged in order, whether they attend their own events or not, etc.

“A few months ago there was a post here from someone claiming a new 24 hour record when they found over 600 caches. On that same day, I found one cache and wouldn't have traded my experience for 600 or over a thousand finds (as someone else claims to have found recently).”

i wish to geocache. i do not wish to have my rank worldwide, or nationwide, or part of my state a matter for others to enter into competition with.

There is no doubt that there is also a large group of collectors that “value” the ever increasing find count. The proliferation of so called “power trails” and number runs have allowed cachers to very easily and quickly acquire collections of high find counts. Even in the find count “collectors” there seems to be a diminishing return on the “relative value” and context of these high find counts.

The collecting ethos is not unwholesome and is one of the primary motivations of geocaching (and a similar motivation to challenges).

Whether you agree or not find counts do matter and are essentially useful for some form of relative value even if that value is zero. Why these “high find count collectors” bother so many other collectors and non-collectors alike (especially if find counts have no value) is a mystery and is a constant source of discussion, debate, opinion, dismissiveness and sometimes angst in the forums.

7.7k · June 30, 2014

Well argued, MKFmly.

June 30, 2014

We would like to withdraw our guess from your contest. We stated in a previous thread that your finds don't matter to us, and ours shouldn't to you. By participating in this contest, it places a value on your finds to us and we find that in direct conflict with our previous statement.

We don't care about anyone's find count but our own. Best of luck on your trip and we hope you have fun.

7.7k · June 30, 2014

We would like to withdraw our guess from your contest. We stated in a previous thread that your finds don't matter to us, and ours shouldn't to you. By participating in this contest, it places a value on your finds to us and we find that in direct conflict with our previous statement.

We don't care about anyone's find count but our own. Best of luck on your trip and we hope you have fun.

*cough* Wrong thread *cough*

June 30, 2014

We would like to withdraw our guess from your contest. We stated in a previous thread that your finds don't matter to us, and ours shouldn't to you. By participating in this contest, it places a value on your finds to us and we find that in direct conflict with our previous statement.

We don't care about anyone's find count but our own. Best of luck on your trip and we hope you have fun.

*cough* Wrong thread *cough*

Oh my, you are so right.

(In best Gilda Radner voice:) Nevermind.

1.2k · July 1, 2014

Why these “high find count collectors” bother so many other collectors and non-collectors alike (especially if find counts have no value) is a mystery and is a constant source of discussion, debate, opinion, dismissiveness and sometimes angst in the forums.

Power trails, my man. Power trails. The emphasis on high count promotes power trails over the placement, and even on top of the placement, of point of interest (POI) caches. It hinders the single most interesting aspect of geocaching, the hobby of leading others to significant and interesting locations through geocache placement. The matter has been discussed quite comprehensively.

I disagree. Whether it's 1000 geocaches 528' a apart or several 50-60 cache mini power trails, both promote the notion of quantity over quality. Personally, I'd rather see a handful of 500+ cache power trails out in the middle of nowhere then the proliferation of 50-60 caches trails that are becoming commonplace in smaller cities all over the U.S. and Europe.

Except that that road out in the middle of nowhere might actually pass right by some remarkable hidden points of interest. I recently visited a place called Maddalena Ranch, in the middle of the Sierra Valley. It has a long line of film cannisters blasting right past it. Few people know about the ranch, but it's open to the public, with a well maintained privy, nature trails, and educational signs. It's also the only place to access the Feather River for miles around without tresspassing, and they allow canoe access (though I'm still trying to figure out how that works). They've even got a canoe gate on the waterway to let the paddlers in and out. The person who placed the power trail likely thought this was just some aimless road out in the middle of nowhere, with nothing interesting on it. The geocachers who come by here will never find this discrete little place. The problem is that when people stop placing geocaches at interesting places and start placing them in places that they think have no points of interest, they act on ignorance, making decisions based on what they don't know. Just because you don't know of any hidden gem in the area doesn't mean that there isn't one, and placing caches where there doesn't seem to be anything interesting sometimes prevents a person who knows better from leading people to a point of interest.

Completely agree with you on this, although if the massive PT is really out in the middle of nowhere, there might not be any remarkable hidden points of interest. On the other hand, if there is, the PT (whether it's a large or smaller one) would effectively block the creation of a new cache at the remarkable hidden POI, and if there *was* a cache at that location that pre-dated the PT, many would just log it as if it was part of the PT.

The quintessential problem is the promotion of quantity over quality. The foolish argument that one person's interest in numbers is irrelevant to my disinterest in numbers is patently false. People who obsess with find counts place and promote those caches that, proverbially, plant a forest to hide a tree.

6.1k · July 1, 2014

"Find counts do not matter, and are essentially useless"

…does not hold up to scrutiny even for cachers that espouse and agree with that sentiment.

"As an activity, geocaching was more than just the sum of the individual caching experiences. For many of the participants, there was a “collecting” ethos that was a significant part of the experience. The geocaching web site keeps a record of all the different caches a particular cacher or caching team have done. Their “collection” of cache finds as a whole was a demonstrable record of what they have achieved."

This is the crux of understanding that oft disparaged WIGAS syndrome. Whether you subscribe to the “collecting ethos” or not and agree with the premise of the essay title or not, cachers place “relative values” and context to these “demonstrable records” even if that relative value is zero.

For example a DNF log by a cacher with 10 finds will be interpreted differently than a DNF log from a cacher with 1000 finds. Cachers assign a “relative value” to those 1010 cache experiences and make assessments, extrapolations, generalizations, and determinations from them.

Collectors place relative emphasis on many of the “demonstrable records”, often valuing the relative quality of their finds at the cost of quantity, the “purity” of their stats (find logs equal caches found), caches logged in order, whether they attend their own events or not, etc.

“A few months ago there was a post here from someone claiming a new 24 hour record when they found over 600 caches. On that same day, I found one cache and wouldn't have traded my experience for 600 or over a thousand finds (as someone else claims to have found recently).”

i wish to geocache. i do not wish to have my rank worldwide, or nationwide, or part of my state a matter for others to enter into competition with.

There is no doubt that there is also a large group of collectors that “value” the ever increasing find count. The proliferation of so called “power trails” and number runs have allowed cachers to very easily and quickly acquire collections of high find counts. Even in the find count “collectors” there seems to be a diminishing return on the “relative value” and context of these high find counts.

The collecting ethos is not unwholesome and is one of the primary motivations of geocaching (and a similar motivation to challenges).

Whether you agree or not find counts do matter and are essentially useful for some form of relative value even if that value is zero. Why these “high find count collectors” bother so many other collectors and non-collectors alike (especially if find counts have no value) is a mystery and is a constant source of discussion, debate, opinion, dismissiveness and sometimes angst in the forums.

Excellent post. Thanks!

6.1k · July 1, 2014

We would like to withdraw our guess from your contest. We stated in a previous thread that your finds don't matter to us, and ours shouldn't to you. By participating in this contest, it places a value on your finds to us and we find that in direct conflict with our previous statement.

We don't care about anyone's find count but our own. Best of luck on your trip and we hope you have fun.

Another good one, whether it was intended or not.

3.7k · July 1, 2014

"why find counts don't matter"

As my motto is "quality over quantity", it's pretty self explanatory that the number of finds doesn't matter to me. I have been caching for two years and have 300 finds. A lot of people do that in a day! I'm nowhere close to "the top," but I will continue to cache. I love caching the way I do it, and will continue. I don't cache every day, I don't cache every month, and I really don't like finding peoples garbage inside of a light post. I will take the time to hike a full day just to one cache if I think I looks like fun. Power trails, stopping every 528' doesnt seem like fun. I like to consider my find logs a little journal of my adventures, so I take time to write legitimate logs. How much can you write when you find 800 caches in one day?

Lastly, I have great memories of (almost[]) all the caches I have found, I do not care if I have been caching for 10 years but my "find count" looks to everyone else like I'm a "newbie". (just an example. As stated earlier, I have only been caching for two years)

Anyways, just my bit on the subject and entry for the prize[]

(I currently am using a 30 day premium membership trial that came with my GPS unit that I activated on June 7. I love the features, it unlocked a lot of new aspects of the game)

-1962penny

While the squirrel's left peanut is a fan favorite, I'm going to take the OP somewhat seriously and vote for this entry.

1.8k · July 1, 2014

TFTC

3.3k · July 1, 2014

That's one more find for me! Who's counting? Not you? Never mind. Thanks so much for hiding this geocache.

Win a free premium membership

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