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Past Find D/T changed yesterday, D/T grid now incomplete


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Is there anything I can do about this?

 

I found a nearby mountaintop cache four months ago, and it was the only nearby example of that rare breed, a 2/4.5, on the day I found it.

 

In the intervening weeks I finished my Fizzy grid and logged a few D/T challenge caches.

 

Then, today, the CO revamped the page after doing owner maintenance over the weekend. In the process he changed the D/T rating to 2/4.

 

I found a 2/4.5 darn it, not a 2/4. So what if he changed the hide and made it easier afterwards? He's entitled to make changes, of course, but shouldn't anything of this sort be a "from this day forward" change?

 

I guess I'm not going to update mygeocachingprofile.com, the one the public sees, until I find a replacement 2/4.5, the nearest of which, I think, is 180 miles away in the desert in a sweltering spot I'd rather not go until October. I really don't want to unfind--and then later refind--a bunch of D/T challenges. For one, doing so could ruin my daily streak. I'm working on a 365-consecutive day challenge and I have many single-cache days in there, the loss of any of which would torpedo that effort, too.

 

Is this the way D/T records are supposed to work? I didn't find a 2/4, I found a 2/4.5. Shouldn't I retain credit no matter how easy the CO decides to make the cache later on?

 

Who's with me? :)

 

I'm talking with the CO about this. He's someone I know, so I might be able to get it reversed. (No guarantee, though) Still, this incident begs a lot of questions. And, as a CO, I'll make sure I NEVER change the D/T rating of any of my caches down the road. I'll live with whatever rating I assign it at the time. Doing otherwise could mess up folks who have already found the cache.

Edited by actualsize
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Is there anything I can do about this?

 

I found a nearby mountaintop cache four months ago, and it was the only nearby example of that rare breed, a 2/4.5, on the day I found it.

 

In the intervening weeks I finished my Fizzy grid and logged a few D/T challenge caches.

 

Then, today, the CO revamped the page after doing owner maintenance over the weekend. In the process he changed the D/T rating to 2/4.

 

I found a 2/4.5 darn it, not a 2/4. So what if he changed the hide and made it easier afterwards? He's entitled to make changes, of course, but shouldn't anything of this sort be a "from this day forward" change?

 

I guess I'm not going to update mygeocachingprofile.com, the one the public sees, until I find a replacement 2/4.5, the nearest of which, I think, is 180 miles away in the desert in a sweltering spot I'd rather not go until October. I really don't want to unfind--and then later refind--a bunch of D/T challenges. For one, doing so could ruin my daily streak. I'm working on a 365-consecutive day challenge and I have many single-cache days in there, the loss of any of which would torpedo that effort, too.

 

Is this the way D/T records are supposed to work? I didn't find a 2/4, I found a 2/4.5. Shouldn't I retain credit no matter how easy the CO decides to make the cache later on?

 

Who's with me? :)

 

I'm talking with the CO about this. He's someone I know, so I might be able to get it reversed. (No guarantee, though) Still, this incident begs a lot of questions. And, as a CO, I'll make sure I NEVER change the D/T rating of any of my caches down the road. I'll live with whatever rating I assign it at the time. Doing otherwise could mess up folks who have already found the cache.

 

I had that happen twice, both times I emailed to CO, one of them changed it back, the other didn't.

 

I also discussed it on these forums a while back and can tell you that you won't get much sympathy here.

 

As far as D/T challenges go, when you logged them you met the challenge so you won't have to relog them.

Edited by Roman!
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I agree that you won't get much sympathy. Tough crown here signaltongue.gif

 

Although this has not happened to me, I have thought about it as I progressed toward my own Fizzy completion. I see it a couple of ways. If a CO decides to change the hide in such a way that it should be more or less difficult then the D could change. Now terrain, that could change over time due to geological or other factors. Or the CO could move the hide to a spot that is more or less difficult to access. Maybe a tree climb that used to be a 4T changed when the tree it was in blew over and the CO moved it to a nearby tree 20 ft away. But the new tree was only a 3T climb. I think the CO should make the entire description indicative of the hide as it currently exists.

 

With that being said, it would tick me off to lose one of my Fizzy squares over this. If the CO just changed the D/T on a whim, then I don't see the logic in it if the cache hide or location hasn't changed. One caveat would be a new hide that the CO under (or over) estimates on either the D or the T. Tweaking either number based on some of the initial stories of difficulty or ease of finding a particular hide. I have done this but would not change it after several finds have been made on the cache.

 

Bottom line to me....the CO decides (subjectively) the D/T and there really isn't anything anyone can do to change that or change his/her mind if he/she changes it at any point.

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If its a newer cache and he/she has fine tuned their D/T, I would not really think twice. If it was a much older cache, I would politely ask the CO to perhaps change it back and say why (assuming you think its justified), but after that, what can you do. If you already qualified for the challenge, you already qualified. If you are working on the Fizzy, that may well depend on the challenge's CO. I'd find another one some day, maybe while on a trip some day you can search for them and find one in your path. That 3 hour trip may have other cool caches to do. Have done many 3 hour drives to caches.

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I have a cache near me. When I found it, it was D2 / T4.5. Several cachers whined that it should be considered T5. It shouldn't, because it doesn't require special equipment.

Those whiner cachers still haven't found the cache.

It kind of annoys me that the reassignment took away my "accomplishment" of that difficult-to-find D/T rating. But there isn't much I can do about it.

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Cache owners should keep difficulty and terrain ratings as accurate as possible for the benefit of future finders.

 

Difficulty and terrain ratings are pieces of information to help cache finders know what to expect when they attempt to find a cache. They are not "credits."

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Cache owners should keep difficulty and terrain ratings as accurate as possible for the benefit of future finders.

 

Difficulty and terrain ratings are pieces of information to help cache finders know what to expect when they attempt to find a cache. They are not "credits."

 

+1

 

IM(not so)HO, I personally think geocaching is fun enough without having to collect achievements like so many Facebook games.

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Changing a T4.5 to a T4 well after publication and after it's been found many times is just inconsiderate IMHO.

 

If the cache location has changed enough to warrant a significant change in either the difficulty or terrain then it should be published as a new cache.

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Changing a T4.5 to a T4 well after publication and after it's been found many times is just inconsiderate IMHO.

 

If the cache location has changed enough to warrant a significant change in either the difficulty or terrain then it should be published as a new cache.

 

Why is it inconsiderate to update a cache listing?

 

It's inconsiderate to keep inaccurate information in a cache listing because some people have decided that these ratings are worth points.

 

Cache permanence is part of the guidelines. Archiving and republishing every time there's a modification to the cache description doesn't seem to be in keeping with the concept of permanence.

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Cache owners should keep difficulty and terrain ratings as accurate as possible for the benefit of future finders.

 

Difficulty and terrain ratings are pieces of information to help cache finders know what to expect when they attempt to find a cache. They are not "credits."

 

+1

 

IM(not so)HO, I personally think geocaching is fun enough without having to collect achievements like so many Facebook games.

 

I see that, but I came into this as a stats geek and as someone who needs a carrot and stick to get off the couch. The beauty of geocaching is the multiple ways to enjoy it. You can make caches, find caches, go after challenges, let it lead you to places you've never been, put out travel bugs or solve puzzles. Or all of the above. No method of enjoyment is superior to another. There's something here for almost everyone.

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Changing a T4.5 to a T4 well after publication and after it's been found many times is just inconsiderate IMHO.

 

If the cache location has changed enough to warrant a significant change in either the difficulty or terrain then it should be published as a new cache.

 

Why is it inconsiderate to update a cache listing?

 

It's inconsiderate to keep inaccurate information in a cache listing because some people have decided that these ratings are worth points.

 

Cache permanence is part of the guidelines. Archiving and republishing every time there's a modification to the cache description doesn't seem to be in keeping with the concept of permanence.

 

Changing a rating by 1/2 a point on a rare DT combo that people specifically found based on that combo is inconsiderate.

 

If there is a need for a large change like a T5 to a T2 because they built a road to the cache then it should be a new cache.

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Changing a rating by 1/2 a point on a rare DT combo that people specifically found based on that combo is inconsiderate.

 

If there is a need for a large change like a T5 to a T2 because they built a road to the cache then it should be a new cache.

 

I think that's the correct word. It's not mean-spirited and changes are perfectly within the CO's right. Such a move simply doesn't consider the ramifications with respect to those that found it before and how they choose to play the game.

 

Stats are part of it. Geocaching.com provides tools to keep track of them including specific ones like the D/T grid. Some people really like this aspect of the game. *raises hand*

 

And, really, what's the point of a half-point change? It almost doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

I'm only 13 squares away from having two on every square, which should insulate me from this sort of thing in the future.

Edited by actualsize
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Changing a rating by 1/2 a point on a rare DT combo that people specifically found based on that combo is inconsiderate.

 

If there is a need for a large change like a T5 to a T2 because they built a road to the cache then it should be a new cache.

 

Difficulty and terrain ratings are far more important for future finders than past finders. Difficult and terrain ratings are not credits. They are not points. They are not smileys. They are simply information about the cache, to help inform those who are considering an approach. Whether or not a difficulty/terrain rating is "rare" is entirely irrelevant. The ratings should be kept up-to-date and as accurate as possible, without regard for any additional side games that others have chosen to attach to those ratings.

 

It is not "inconsiderate" to update and maintain cache listings. It *is* inconsiderate to expect cache owners and other geocachers to tiptoe around the rules of auxillary games and challenges. There is *nothing* in the guidelines that tells me that as a cache owner I am obligated to keep inaccurate ratings on my caches so as not to disturb someone else's "grid."

 

It is up to the cache owner to determine whether or not changes to the landscape around a cache should result in archival. There can be no hard and fast rule about this - the owner is the only one who can determine if the original intention of the geocache has been compromised by such changes.

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Changing a rating by 1/2 a point on a rare DT combo that people specifically found based on that combo is inconsiderate.

 

If there is a need for a large change like a T5 to a T2 because they built a road to the cache then it should be a new cache.

 

Difficulty and terrain ratings are far more important for future finders than past finders. Difficult and terrain ratings are not credits. They are not points. They are not smileys. They are simply information about the cache, to help inform those who are considering an approach. Whether or not a difficulty/terrain rating is "rare" is entirely irrelevant. The ratings should be kept up-to-date and as accurate as possible, without regard for any additional side games that others have chosen to attach to those ratings.

 

It is not "inconsiderate" to update and maintain cache listings. It *is* inconsiderate to expect cache owners and other geocachers to tiptoe around the rules of auxillary games and challenges. There is *nothing* in the guidelines that tells me that as a cache owner I am obligated to keep inaccurate ratings on my caches so as not to disturb someone else's "grid."

 

It is up to the cache owner to determine whether or not changes to the landscape around a cache should result in archival. There can be no hard and fast rule about this - the owner is the only one who can determine if the original intention of the geocache has been compromised by such changes.

 

Again, I see no point in the 1/2 point change and different people play for different reasons and by making that change you possible have a negative impact on someone else. Inconsiderate is the perfect word as you are not considering the effect of your actions.

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In my case, I found it because it looked like a fun walk, and it was. The fact that it was changed to a 5 after the fact doesn't change my walk at all.

It just is silly that the peer pressure of the masses who didn't read the cache page, my log, or look at the area insisted that it be changed, and got their way.

So, while I didn't do it "because" of the 4.5, it was nice that it had originally been rated correctly at 4.5 and I could use that on my tortoise crawl to my own personal journey to get all D/T ratings. Just kind of annoying since it is a difficult rating to find, and even more difficult to find a legit 4.5 rating.

But oh well. It is the Cache Owner's cache (hence the title) and she can do what she wants.

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And, really, what's the point of a half-point change? It almost doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

Half a point is the difference between wheelchair accessible and not wheelchair accessible, if you go by the Clayjar method.

 

Half a point is the difference between "just a really freaking hard climb" and "you need a boat."

 

Half a point is the difference between spending two weeks figuring out how to decrypt something, and requiring a PhD in Nuclear Chemistry to solve a puzzle.

 

Proper maintenance of caches includes monitoring things that could affect difficulty and terrain, and modifying the cache listing accordingly where necessary. What's inconsiderate? Encouraging cache owners to maintain inaccurate cache listings, or worse, telling them that it's wrong to update their cache listings. Your "grid" is not the cache owner's concern.

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Why don't you just ask him to temporarily change it back so you can take a screenshot of your D/T grid?

 

I have that already. It's just that I've had one or two challenge cache COs check my stats using my public profile, is all. Some people are hard-line in THAT aspect of the game. I simply won't update it until I find a back-up.

 

No big deal. It's just interesting to see how others think of the game. It's not so one-dimensional with me.

 

I still think GC.com could fix this with software so everyone is happy. Keep past finds logged as the day they were found even if a CO makes needed or desired changes to the listing down the road.

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Again, I see no point in the 1/2 point change and different people play for different reasons and by making that change you possible have a negative impact on someone else. Inconsiderate is the perfect word as you are not considering the effect of your actions.

 

The negative impact of an inaccurate terrain rating on a geocacher who is searching for the cache is of much greater concern to me than someone in tears because their "grid" isn't full anymore.

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Changing a rating by 1/2 a point on a rare DT combo that people specifically found based on that combo is inconsiderate.

 

If there is a need for a large change like a T5 to a T2 because they built a road to the cache then it should be a new cache.

 

Difficulty and terrain ratings are far more important for future finders than past finders. Difficult and terrain ratings are not credits. They are not points. They are not smileys. They are simply information about the cache, to help inform those who are considering an approach. Whether or not a difficulty/terrain rating is "rare" is entirely irrelevant. The ratings should be kept up-to-date and as accurate as possible, without regard for any additional side games that others have chosen to attach to those ratings.

 

It is not "inconsiderate" to update and maintain cache listings. It *is* inconsiderate to expect cache owners and other geocachers to tiptoe around the rules of auxillary games and challenges. There is *nothing* in the guidelines that tells me that as a cache owner I am obligated to keep inaccurate ratings on my caches so as not to disturb someone else's "grid."

 

It is up to the cache owner to determine whether or not changes to the landscape around a cache should result in archival. There can be no hard and fast rule about this - the owner is the only one who can determine if the original intention of the geocache has been compromised by such changes.

+1000. D/T ratings are for future finders, that's why they exist. Maintaining inaccurate ones just so previous finders can fill a grid would be highly inconsiderate to those future finders, who would be getting incorrect intel.

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It's nice to know that those of you that are harassing me because of my question/comment have NO interest whatsoever in stats and have zero badges on your profile pages.

 

Why does there have to be a "right way" and a "wrong way" to play this game, anyway? Can't there just be "your way" and "my way"? The game has been designed with many facets, why is why it so much better than some recent imitators I could name.

Edited by actualsize
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It's nice to know that those of you that are harassing me because of my question/comment have NO interest whatsoever in stats and have zero badges on your profile pages.

 

Who's harassing you?

 

One can be interested in keeping track of personal stats without expecting cache owners to bow down to the grid.

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I warned you, I went through this about a year ago.

 

Don't worry. :) I'll get off the lawn. I never have gotten the hang of forums. Never did feel the need to have a thousand posts and a daily presence. I just pop in when I have a question.

 

You think I'd have learned by now.

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I warned you, I went through this about a year ago.

 

Don't worry. :) I'll get off the lawn. I never have gotten the hang of forums. Never did feel the need to have a thousand posts and a daily presence. I just pop in when I have a question.

 

You think I'd have learned by now.

 

I haven't, usually come back when Ive had a few beer.

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Who's harassing you?

 

One can be interested in keeping track of personal stats without expecting cache owners to bow down to the grid.

 

Someone describes me as being "in tears" and I'm not supposed to consider that harassment? It was a simple question, and I got a lecture. That's not a discussion.

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Who's harassing you?

 

One can be interested in keeping track of personal stats without expecting cache owners to bow down to the grid.

 

Someone describes me as being "in tears" and I'm not supposed to consider that harassment? It was a simple question, and I got a lecture. That's not a discussion.

 

Who described you as being in tears?

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It's nice to know that those of you that are harassing me because of my question/comment have NO interest whatsoever in stats and have zero badges on your profile pages.

 

Why does there have to be a "right way" and a "wrong way" to play this game, anyway? Can't there just be "your way" and "my way"? The game has been designed with many facets, why is why it so much better than some recent imitators I could name.

 

I don't see anyone harassing you. I do see people giving a opinion on your question.

 

I agree there should be a "your way"(never change D/T rates) and "my way" (update D/T rates to reflect changes).

 

Your cache, do it your way. On my caches I will change the D/T as needed.

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The real gripe here should not be directed at the cache owners, but at the system that cannot cannot lock in the D/T ratings of a found cache in peoples stats.

 

Personally I don't care about the fizzy grid. I will also change the D/T ratings if as a CO I deem it needs to be changed. Attacking a CO owner over such things is petty in my opinion.

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And, really, what's the point of a half-point change? It almost doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

Half a point is the difference between wheelchair accessible and not wheelchair accessible, if you go by the Clayjar method.

 

Half a point is the difference between "just a really freaking hard climb" and "you need a boat."

 

Half a point is the difference between spending two weeks figuring out how to decrypt something, and requiring a PhD in Nuclear Chemistry to solve a puzzle.

 

.

 

None of your examples applies to a 4.5 drop to a 4.

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The real gripe here should not be directed at the cache owners, but at the system that cannot cannot lock in the D/T ratings of a found cache in peoples stats.

 

Personally I don't care about the fizzy grid. I will also change the D/T ratings if as a CO I deem it needs to be changed. Attacking a CO owner over such things is petty in my opinion.

 

Let's get one thing straight, we are not talking about dropping a T2 to aT1 1/2, we are talking about changing the rating on a rare combo, in this case the next closest to the OP is 150 miles away. If a combo is rare people will spend lots of gas and invest lots of time traveling to get that combo.

 

Changing a rare combo well after publication and after it's been found many times for the combo by 1/2 a point is inconsiderate.

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Changing a rare combo well after publication and after it's been found many times for the combo by 1/2 a point is inconsiderate.

 

Why does it matter whether or not the rating is "rare?" Why isn't it inconsiderate to raise a 1/1 to a 1.5/1.5?

 

How hard is it to understand that if you have a rare D/T rating people travel to your cache specifically for that rating same as people travel long distance for rare dates placed, sometimes from quite the distance or with quite the effort. It may not matter to you but the D/T grid does matter to a lot of people.

 

Moving a a 1/1 to a 1.5/1.5, firstly, probably no one will notice and people do not travel to your cache specifically to fill a hole in their grid.

Edited by Roman!
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The entire point of ratings is to provide searchers with an accurate measure of the D/T difficulty of the cache. If some finders choose to use these ratings for other purposes that is their problem. I always have and always will adjust my cache D/T ratings based on feedback from searchers and the conditions on the ground. I strive to serve searchers by providing them with realistic D/T ratings and I'm not concerned with someones side game.

Edited by briansnat
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I just looked at a cache with a rare D/T rating, in fact it is one I went to find after another CO changed the their rating leaving me with a hole in my grid.

 

Since it was a puzzle in an out of the way location in the first year it was found 10 times, in the next year it was found 13 times and 9/13 mention finding it for the D/T combo.

 

This is one of the logs:

 

Visited this cache for the same reason as Roman! before me.....this is the *third* time I've completed my D/T grid, due to COs changing ratings!! Couldn't stand to see that blank square, so xxxxxx and I headed out today. It was a beautiful day and the cache is in great shape. It was awfully tempting to ignore the NO PARKING signs, but we did park at the parking co-ords and enjoyed the short walk. Beautiful spot. Thank you, RP, for the (big) hints in solving this one. It was a great puzzle....once I saw the light! Okay....now my chart is complete again.....

 

Actions have consequences, not caring about the consequences it inconsiderate.

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How hard is it to understand that if you have a rare D/T rating people travel to your cache specifically for that rating same as people travel long distance for rare dates placed, sometimes from quite the distance or with quite the effort. It may not matter to you but the D/T grid does matter to a lot of people.

 

If I travel a long distance to find an old cache, there is a chance that the cache might get archived while I'm driving there. That's just how it goes. The date might "matter" to me, but that's not relevant to proper cache maintenance.

 

The same goes for difficulty and terrain ratings. Whether or not they "matter" for auxillary challenges and statistics is not relevant. Their primary purpose is to help geocachers who are actively seeking the cache. That purpose is paramount, and supersedes all other potential uses of those ratings.

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The entire point of ratings is to provide searchers with an accurate measure of the D/T difficulty of the cache. If some finders choose to use these ratings for other purposes that is their problem. I always have and always will adjust my cache D/T ratings based on feedback from finders and the conditions of the area. I strive to serve searchers by providing them with realistic D/T ratings and I'm not concerned with someones side game.

 

The D/T grid is not a side game, it's on your stats page.

 

I'm not concerned with someones side game, isn't not concerned the same as inconsiderate? Not caring someone may have undertaken a great journey to find your cache for their own personal reasons and then you taking that away from them because you are not concerned = inconsiderate.

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Here's another log: Out for the find today, second of two important ones: an earlier find finished off my placed-date calendar, and this one completes my DT grid.

 

Notice the word important? This cache was important to the finder but your view is heck with those that found my cache.

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I just looked at a cache with a rare D/T rating, in fact it is one I went to find after another CO changed the their rating leaving me with a hole in my grid.

 

Since it was a puzzle in an out of the way location in the first year it was found 10 times, in the next year it was found 13 times and 9/13 mention finding it for the D/T combo.

 

This is one of the logs:

 

Visited this cache for the same reason as Roman! before me.....this is the *third* time I've completed my D/T grid, due to COs changing ratings!! Couldn't stand to see that blank square, so xxxxxx and I headed out today. It was a beautiful day and the cache is in great shape. It was awfully tempting to ignore the NO PARKING signs, but we did park at the parking co-ords and enjoyed the short walk. Beautiful spot. Thank you, RP, for the (big) hints in solving this one. It was a great puzzle....once I saw the light! Okay....now my chart is complete again.....

 

Actions have consequences, not caring about the consequences it inconsiderate.

 

What about the consequences of an inaccurate rating for future finders? Why is a hole in someone's grid more important than, say, a family with a stroller who start to approach a cache, only to find out they can't reach it because the owner felt pressured to keep an inaccurate terrain rating?

 

Why is a side game more important than other finders?

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Here's another log: Out for the find today, second of two important ones: an earlier find finished off my placed-date calendar, and this one completes my DT grid.

 

Notice the word important? This cache was important to the finder but your view is heck with those that found my cache.

 

And your view is heck with those who will look for the cache in the future.

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I just looked at a cache with a rare D/T rating, in fact it is one I went to find after another CO changed the their rating leaving me with a hole in my grid.

 

Since it was a puzzle in an out of the way location in the first year it was found 10 times, in the next year it was found 13 times and 9/13 mention finding it for the D/T combo.

 

This is one of the logs:

 

Visited this cache for the same reason as Roman! before me.....this is the *third* time I've completed my D/T grid, due to COs changing ratings!! Couldn't stand to see that blank square, so xxxxxx and I headed out today. It was a beautiful day and the cache is in great shape. It was awfully tempting to ignore the NO PARKING signs, but we did park at the parking co-ords and enjoyed the short walk. Beautiful spot. Thank you, RP, for the (big) hints in solving this one. It was a great puzzle....once I saw the light! Okay....now my chart is complete again.....

 

Actions have consequences, not caring about the consequences it inconsiderate.

 

What about the consequences of an inaccurate rating for future finders? Why is a hole in someone's grid more important than, say, a family with a stroller who start to approach a cache, only to find out they can't reach it because the owner felt pressured to keep an inaccurate terrain rating?

 

Why is a side game more important than other finders?

 

A difference of 4 or 4.5 is not going to have an impact on future finders, odds are the true ranking is somewhere in between. If it was changed in the first few finds with feedback from finders, great, but just changing it from out of nowhere without considering past finders is not right.

Edited by Roman!
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The entire point of ratings is to provide searchers with an accurate measure of the D/T difficulty of the cache. If some finders choose to use these ratings for other purposes that is their problem. I always have and always will adjust my cache D/T ratings based on feedback from finders and the conditions of the area. I strive to serve searchers by providing them with realistic D/T ratings and I'm not concerned with someones side game.

 

The D/T grid is not a side game, it's on your stats page.

 

I'm not concerned with someones side game, isn't not concerned the same as inconsiderate? Not caring someone may have undertaken a great journey to find your cache for their own personal reasons and then you taking that away from them because you are not concerned = inconsiderate.

 

I'm considerate of those who attempt my cache. I'm not considerate of those who choose to use the D/T ratings for a purpose other than what it is meant to be.

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A difference of 4 or 4.5 is not going to have an impact on future finders, odds are the true ranking is somewhere in between. If it was changed in the first few finds with feedback from finders, great, but just changing it from out of nowhere without considering past finders is not right.

 

Exactly which section of the guidelines states this?

 

If it "is not right" to adjust D/T ratings, why does the site allow it?

 

There are untold numbers of these "challenges" out there that require cachers to meet various requirements that can be disrupted by unsuspecting cache owners. These games should not take precedence over the most basic elements of geocaching, and cache owners should not be pressured to adhere to arbitrary rules outside the guidelines.

 

In other news, I've hidden a new challenge cache. It requires you to find fifteen caches that have had their terrain rating changed. I'm going to start telling cache owners that they are being inconsiderate by not changing their terrain ratings so people can do my challenge. It's important to me, therefore it's inconsiderate for owners to not play along.

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The entire point of ratings is to provide searchers with an accurate measure of the D/T difficulty of the cache. If some finders choose to use these ratings for other purposes that is their problem. I always have and always will adjust my cache D/T ratings based on feedback from finders and the conditions of the area. I strive to serve searchers by providing them with realistic D/T ratings and I'm not concerned with someones side game.

 

The D/T grid is not a side game, it's on your stats page.

 

I'm not concerned with someones side game, isn't not concerned the same as inconsiderate? Not caring someone may have undertaken a great journey to find your cache for their own personal reasons and then you taking that away from them because you are not concerned = inconsiderate.

 

I'm considerate of those who attempt my cache. I'm not considerate of those who choose to use the D/T ratings for a purpose other than what it is meant to be.

 

I, as well as many other people find caches for a variety of reasons, one is D/T combos, if you had a rare D/T combo I needed to fill my grid and it was the closest to my home I'd visit your cache for that reason and I'd mention why in my log. If you chose to change your rating after I found it I'd go find the next closest combo but think to myself, boy is that CO inconsiderate.

 

Bottom line, change the rating on a rare combo, you will impact people, some negatively but since you sony care it really is a moot point.

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A difference of 4 or 4.5 is not going to have an impact on future finders, odds are the true ranking is somewhere in between. If it was changed in the first few finds with feedback from finders, great, but just changing it from out of nowhere without considering past finders is not right.

 

Exactly which section of the guidelines states this?

 

If it "is not right" to adjust D/T ratings, why does the site allow it?

 

There are untold numbers of these "challenges" out there that require cachers to meet various requirements that can be disrupted by unsuspecting cache owners. These games should not take precedence over the most basic elements of geocaching, and cache owners should not be pressured to adhere to arbitrary rules outside the guidelines.

 

In other news, I've hidden a new challenge cache. It requires you to find fifteen caches that have had their terrain rating changed. I'm going to start telling cache owners that they are being inconsiderate by not changing their terrain ratings so people can do my challenge. It's important to me, therefore it's inconsiderate for owners to not play along.

 

It'll never get published as there is no way to prove it, bad analogy.

 

We are talking about very rare instances where a change in a D/T combo creates holes in peoples grids, most CO make any changes in the first few finds so for GS to stop allowing changes would be foolish, it's not a common event.

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I, as well as many other people find caches for a variety of reasons, one is D/T combos, if you had a rare D/T combo I needed to fill my grid and it was the closest to my home I'd visit your cache for that reason and I'd mention why in my log. If you chose to change your rating after I found it I'd go find the next closest combo but think to myself, boy is that CO inconsiderate.

 

Now that you know that these ratings are subject to change, perhaps you should adjust your expectations.

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I, as well as many other people find caches for a variety of reasons, one is D/T combos, if you had a rare D/T combo I needed to fill my grid and it was the closest to my home I'd visit your cache for that reason and I'd mention why in my log. If you chose to change your rating after I found it I'd go find the next closest combo but think to myself, boy is that CO inconsiderate.

 

Now that you know that these ratings are subject to change, perhaps you should adjust your expectations.

 

If I take my time to write a nice log shouldn't I expect an active CO to read it? If a cache has multiple finds mentioning the reason the cacher found their cache was for the rare D/T rating, at that point in time shouldn't the CO show some consideration to those finders by not changing it.

 

NOTE TO SELF: next time I notice a CO changing the D or T change your log to TFTC.

Edited by Roman!
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